Nerfs in Warframe is getting absurd

[taiiat]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)GEN-Son_17 said:

Oh, I see you haven't played it yet! The fact you said "no good rewards" says it all.

(the fact that you think a couple new Weapons and some Cosmetics constitutes as significant new content says it all)

[DoomFruit]

17 hours ago, Sgt.Tau said:

I could have sworn I heard Steve mention that they realized that they need more testing before these big updates. I think they got the message and learned.

Yeah... no. No way in hell.

On release, the ground part of Scarlet Spear literally could not be completed. They set a limit of 17 waves, so one would expect them to have played up to 17 and determined that this was a good point to halt at.

The game flat out died at the end of wave 10. My entire squad got thrown to desktop with a crash. A squadmate was watching various streamers to see how the mission worked. They all crashed to desktop at the same point.

Sure, you might expect some balance issues, some edge cases and definitely excessive grind, but something like this? If you can't even complete the damn mission, it's pretty obvious that they're not even pretending to test their releases.

I don't know how it's changed since, but I don't care. To release something in that state is utterly unacceptable and has permanently coloured my view of it. I'm never touching any part of this event again, no matter what gets done to it.

[Awazx]

En 26/3/2020 a las 11:31, (XB1)poodlebingo 65 dijo:

launching Warframe 2. 

Warframe 2 won't do if there's no "DE-2" first.

[Althaline]

1 minute ago, Awazx said:

Warframe 2 won't do if there's no "DE-2" first.

If you truly hate everything about Warframe and its developers, you're always free to leave. If you truly love Warframe and the potential that it has, you need to explain how you would want to improve things and not just scream at the devs and insult their mothers, or whatever you were trying to do with the original post.

What were you hoping to achieve with this?

[Awazx]

Justo ahora, Iamabearlulz dijo:

If you truly hate everything about Warframe and its developers, you're always free to leave. If you truly love Warframe and the potential that it has, you need to explain how you would want to improve things and not just scream at the devs and insult their mothers, or whatever you were trying to do with the original post.

What were you hoping to achieve with this?

First, improve your reading comprehension skills. When you're done, come back here. Maybe I'll answer you the second time.

[Althaline]

1 minute ago, Awazx said:

First, improve your reading comprehension skills. When you're done, come back here. Maybe I'll answer you the second time.

Oho, the classic response when not in the mood for logical, reasoned discussion. Farewell, and I wish you luck in conveying your message in a useful way next time.

[Awazx]

hace 1 minuto, Iamabearlulz dijo:

Oho, the classic response when not in the mood for logical, reasoned discussion. Farewell, and I wish you luck in conveying your message in a useful way next time.

I am open to talking to you in an educated, productive and respectful way. Maybe you want to try a first contact differently?

[DrakeWurrum]

21 hours ago, (PS4)GEN-Son_17 said:

The Lich system, while rough at the beginning, is fun as heck

And I still strongly disagree. There's so much that's STILL wrong with it.

Playing Shadow of War highlighted the Kuva Lich flaws for me in black-and-white contrast.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

3 hours ago, DavidCurser said:

Let's say, the conclave console gets replaced

Why?

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

17 hours ago, taiiat said:

(the fact that you think a couple new Weapons and some Cosmetics constitutes as significant new content says it all)

You're all over the place. So now weapons and cosmetics are no longer rewards but content that needs to be significant too? All good. I'll enjoy what you now see as "not significant content" while you sit in the corner and whine.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

14 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

And I still strongly disagree. There's so much that's STILL wrong with it.

Playing Shadow of War highlighted the Kuva Lich flaws for me in black-and-white contrast.

I find this current version to be fun and rewarding. It's not a quick system and I love the consequence system they have in place. It's a faster paced gameplay and your load-outs have to be on point if you're facing the max level Lich. Coupled with Railjack's higher armored and levelled fights and the Railjack dog fights, this has been an overall really nice few months for me!

I'll have to check out Shadow of War though!

[DrakeWurrum]

1 hour ago, (PS4)GEN-Son_17 said:

I'll have to check out Shadow of War though!

Well to give a basic rundown, if I can remember correctly:

You don't have only one enemy orc to hunt down. You have a good dozen or so orc captains that you can pick from. Some of them own specific territories, and you want to take them out to turn off alarms in that area. Others just wander around and you have to hunt them down. Others will engage in special little instanced missions where they basically try to ruin the life of a different orc captain. Sometimes these captains will have a cluster of bodyguards specifically for protecting them. Some will be bodyguards for a warchief, who are a higher ranked (and usually more powerful) set of orcs that directly serve under the area's overlord (an even more powerful orc). If you take on a warchief, all their bodyguard captains show up to fight you as well, so it serves you best to handle the bodyguards separately first (unless you like a challenge). To take on an overlord you siege the area's fort directly (which is an amazingly fun ordeal) - and you can either fight it head-on without handling any of his underlings, or turn them (or even replace them) to your side one-by-one.  Naturally, you can "dominate" them to make them into your own minions, and then send them off to fight other orcs in your name - either to test their strength, or to arrange for them to become a warchief's bodyguard and later betray said warchief (or even for the overlord). Any random orc that kills you? They'll get promoted to a captain, and become a new nemesis for you to fight. Some will even break your sword, and you have to hunt them down to reforge the pieces back together.
Unlike with kuva liches, you can nearly always manually hunt down an enemy orc. Some do need to be drawn out, but that's usually a special objective like killing off a number of his archers. Orcs will ambush you sometimes, especially for revenge, without any kind of warning. Even while you're fighting another orc!

I would love it if there was a small army of kuva liches to deal with, instead of having to spawn one at a time. Don't like the one you just spawned? Well, go deal with a different one.
I would also love to have more reasons to convert liches - it would be fun to be able to send liches to fight one another. Hell, I would at least like more control over when they come to help me (why not a beacon to summon them, instead of a random chance to spawn?). I would love to be able to invade a kuva lich's galleon to not only destroy the ship, but capture it for myself to start building a small kuva fleet of my own.

What really gets me though is how orc captains will all have their unique strengths and weaknesses. DE tried to emulate that with damage types, but it's not the same. Some orcs are weak to various beasts or to stealth attacks, let alone specific types of damage. Some are resistant to your usual sword techniques, and have to be stunned somehow. Some have various ways to enrage, (maybe to specific damage types, or to you using certain techniques on them, or to you slaughtering their beast pets, etc), which makes them harder to fight. Some have special abilities unique to their class or their clan, which have to be handled in different ways. Some will be specifically terrified by things (maybe fire, or beasts, or bees), which will literally eliminate all their resistances and open them up to your attacks, giving you a reason to try to take advantage of their fears.
Fighting them basically calls for you to gather intel on them first to see what works on them, and what doesn't. There is no "kill code" for orcs - you just have to take advantage of their weaknesses and be wary of their strengths. This only takes *ONE* of the orc "worms" to gather intel - then you know what you need to know about that orc and can prepare accordingly.

----
Imagine if fighting a kuva lich meant you had to find a specific weapon type to fight them. Maybe your lich is immune to shotguns, and even resistant to "launcher" weapons... but is specifically weak to daggers. Or maybe they're immune to explosion damage, but they're weak to shots from a bow. Hell, what if a lich gained an adaptation feat, allowing them to adapt to your damage and forcing you to use either your operator or the paracesis to beat them? What if they're immune to crits, but are exceptionally prone to status procs... but only for specific damage types. What if your orc is terrified of kubrow, and that makes them weak enough to your attacks to kill? What if using a sentinel sends them into a berserker rage that makes them that much harder?
Why can't I hunt down where the kuva lich is hiding? Why can't I send a lich I've already converted to draw them out or raid their supplies? Why can't I find a Spy mission in their territory to hack a data vault that gives away their location? Why does every lich use basically the same model and tactics? Why are there only two personalities, split by gender?

I wouldn't dream of asking for kuva liches to just copy the same orc nemesis system, but once you play it for yourself... you realize how much better the system could be.

I just want to see them spend time on expanding on what they have, taking it to the next level, instead of deciding to jump to yet-another-new-idea to launch it half-done. They rushed from kuva liches, half-finished, right into Railjack, half-finished, and then proceeded to work on the Scarlet Spear Operation to jumpstart the New War (which fortunately did call for improvements to Railjack), but they're also working on revamping the Corpus ship tilesets (ostensibly to add Corpus to Railjack). And whatever happened to the third Orb Mother? Are we still going to get Kitgun primaries? Will we ever do more with the Unum and the Quills, or will they continue to just be narrative devices?

They have too many threads at once.

Edited March 29, 2020 by DrakeWurrum

[Teridax68]

On 2020-03-27 at 8:37 PM, MagPrime said:

I'm on the fence with this sentiment. 

Yeah, it's nice they aren't afraid to jump but, they keep choosing the same spot to jump from and everytime it's a borderline disaster for everyone else. 

They aren't showing they're learning from the last jump and at least making different choices. 

Those are my exact thoughts on the matter. If DE were to take bold new steps, stumble along the way, and learn from their mistakes, that'd be fine, and the community would no doubt continue to support them, but the problem is that DE keeps repeating the same mistakes, over and over again. Players have been complaining for years about the complete lack of playtesting, horrendously over-the-top grind, and repetitious use of the same content structures that cause most new content updates to have disastrous initial releases... and yet here we are. Not only is there no apparent improvement, some of the problems seem to have worsened, as the content additions we've received have been consistently buggy to the point of being essentially unplayable for several days, and the progress towards our rewards has been stretched out and convoluted in increasingly tedious and confusing ways. To some extent, it almost feels like a decline more than an improvement, even as the game continues to grow and expand in ways people have now largely realized to be unsustainable.

[Steel_Rook]

1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

Those are my exact thoughts on the matter. If DE were to take bold new steps, stumble along the way, and learn from their mistakes, that'd be fine, and the community would no doubt continue to support them, but the problem is that DE keeps repeating the same mistakes, over and over again. Players have been complaining for years about the complete lack of playtesting, horrendously over-the-top grind, and repetitious use of the same content structures that cause most new content updates to have disastrous initial releases... and yet here we are. Not only is there no apparent improvement, some of the problems seem to have worsened, as the content additions we've received have been consistently buggy to the point of being essentially unplayable for several days, and the progress towards our rewards has been stretched out and convoluted in increasingly tedious and confusing ways. To some extent, it almost feels like a decline more than an improvement, even as the game continues to grow and expand in ways people have now largely realized to be unsustainable.

I have similar feelings on the matter. Even if we excuse Scarlet Spear's disastrous first day as "DE forced to work from home due to Covid-19" (which is fair, that's a significant issue to overcome), precisely none of the issues at play here are new. You don't even have to go back years, either. These are the same issues which plauged The Old Blood and Empyrean and the Jovian Concord and every other major release DE have pushed at least for as long as I've been here, and I haven't been here that long. I don't think very many of these issues can be excused with "innovation," either. I can maybe understand implementation bugs being the result of radical new content, such as Scarlet Spear using a version of Dojo instances breaking Dojo instances. However, what's the excuse for the complete lack of in-game tutorial or even explanation? Yes, there's a Forum announcement that I can guarantee most people haven't read, but this should be in the actual game.

I'm perfectly fine with DE trying big things even if they need several attempts to get them right. Liches are far better (though still not good) today as compared to how they released. Railjack has been fixed so much that it now only occasionally crashes, soft-locks or fails to start. Things HAVE gotten better. I'm not fine with DE behaving like an Early Access kickstarter releasing backer-only prototypes, however. There's a certain amount of professionalism I expect out of a professional game developer releasing a product for profit. Bugs and issues will always happen, but obvious game-breaking issues that everyone can catch on a sideways glance simply suggest there's no QA at work, or else that QA are given 15 minutes at end of working hours Friday to try out new content. That's likely not the case, but this is the impression I get.

Maybe that's just me, but I'm losing my patience for "potential." Kuva Liches have potential, Railjack has potential, Squad Link has potential, Archwings have potential. OK, fine - think big if you want to. But sooner or later, that potential has to turn into reality, or else I might start to suspect that I'm playing vapourware.

[goodnamesallused]

Since Operation: Scarlet Spear was released, I believe we all experienced one thing in the missions: BUG. You can be stucked anywhere at anytime: on the board, in the operator form, even on the turret and you can never get down from it...and so on. What happened to Warframe? If you want to make us have fun, at least let us actually play the game without these obstacles? Please [DE], I'm a Chinese player in EU and I find that most of my friends are leaving the game because of BUGs, I really don't want Warframe to go down since this is the only game I spent 600+h on.

PS: Forgive my trash English

[RedDirtTrooper]

On 2020-03-28 at 7:32 PM, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

Why?

Because it's a dead game mode that almost nobody plays, and you could move that functionality to Teshin at the relays while barely impacting the vast majority of players and opening that space up for a console that people would actually use.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

I completely agree. At the end of the day, if someone's only gripe is that they cant wear 2 Arcane Energizes then that's pretty good.

It took me like an hour or 2 today of sitting in my dojo scanning the trade chat to make 240p, all from stuff I randomly got playing the game.

If I was playing another game I'd probably have to just buy it. Now I spend some money up front when I started, but since I'm planning to play the game for years to come, that's a good investment as I essentially only "bought" the game.

 

DE should stop using PC as a test server, though: I'd be livid if I did an hour of an event and got nothing out of it.

[Miser_able]

if DE brings all weapons up to endgame capacity, then people will complain that all the challenge is lost and then the enemies will have to be buffed again, and we'll be right back where we started.

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

Magus Lockdown, wow, just wow. It's another nerf this is really getting old, i mean really old, i am starting to pay money on a game that will just for all intent and purpose say screw you and nerf what the content i'm getting. for example i spent a few hundred dollars so i could buy grace, guardian, barrier, and energize and now energize is the only one of those i can even stomach using after their evil little cooldown nerf. not to mention i like to solo things a lot and the enemies just keep getting more and more powerful while i keep getting weaker and weaker. on top of that i have friends who have internet issues making it extremely hard for them to even play with other people and are stuck solo most of the time. two of them quit the game because they can't progress due to not being able to play with others and the enemies being too absurd to defeat. and the riven disposition nerfs that was a line crossed that should never have been even considered. I guarantee you likely lost hundreds of thousand dollars the moment you did that. This game has so much potential, don't drive another hardcore veteran away with your ridiculous i've spent a million kuva on a riven before i got a good roll and then it's disposition got nerfed. now it can barely hurt things it used to be able to one shot.nerfs, all you're doing is losing money and people who actually love this game. As for your nerfing things because something wasn't intended,  my experience has taught me that the greatest and most amazingly fun things tend to be unintentionally added.

 

I really don't know how many more times i can handle having all my work thrown away against my will before i decide i'm done, and i guarantee that if i quit you will lose a colossal player base of people who spend money myself including, because i intend to buy all accesses and accessories i can. So please don't ruin this game for me and so many others, i'm still angry about what happened to the soma prime, arca plasmor, and the range of all of my polearms, whips, and glaives.

Whiners beget whiners stopping listening to people who complain because something is too powerful because people like that won't stay in your game i spent my life around those types of people i know the way they think and all you're doing is driving people who will actually play your game away and bringing in people who would rather do absolutely nothing but complain and complain about things that they could easily remedy themselves. I can guarantee you with 99% certainty that most of them whine because they don't want to put the work into it and because of that they don't have it and proceed to complain about other people having it

 

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by (XB1)Harbinger XK5
a Post I made to a different forum that felt like it belonged here as well

[Marine027]

Gerade eben schrieb Miser_able:

if DE brings all weapons up to endgame capacity, then people will complain that all the challenge is lost and then the enemies will have to be buffed again, and we'll be right back where we started.

Challange? What Challange? Enemies holding more out and more one shotting you easier? Why do people see this as challanging without change of gamepaly and or battle mechanics.

If weapons are more balanced only means more variety to choose from, instead if we leave it so or them only nerfing strong ones, people simply switch to the next meta.

Rivens not helped this at all as example, and those were made to "fix" older weapons, yeah, sure, DE plays with us by now, i not want to doubt them fully but a lot shows sadly and i blame there moeny givers for such decisions aswell.

[(XBOX)Harbinger XK5]

11 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

if DE brings all weapons up to endgame capacity, then people will complain that all the challenge is lost and then the enemies will have to be buffed again, and we'll be right back where we started.

It's listening to those kinds of complaints that got us where we are. all these people have to do is make challenge builds which give them enough power to where they're weak like they want but still have a chance against the enemies

[LupoDWolf]

.-. dunno where you are getting the absurd of it. but just lookin at your thread show it won't matter if we bring/explain/etc why that.

[Xaero]

Please, DE, add old Magus Lockdown effect to every weapon and ability, increase damage of all our stuf to 1 000 000 000 000 and nerf every enemy to 1 HP. Make OP happy.

Edit: for some reason, the topic was merged with a completely irrelevant thread.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Xaero

[Cicasajt]

you are just crying because your gameplay was centered on a single OP thing than got nerfed now. maybe time to take the rest of the game in and enjoy all the stuff out there

[Fellas92]

1 hour ago, Miser_able said:

if DE brings all weapons up to endgame capacity, then people will complain that all the challenge is lost

Since when did we have challenge in this game ?

Also, OP what you on about ? Enemies armor got reworked, so everything is much easier to kill. Poor weapons are actually decent now. If you cannot mod a single weapon properly in order to kill a foe, it's on you.

Riven disposition on the other hand, is another topic. Though pretty everyone knows that they will changed every 3 months.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Fellas92