Percentage Damage Reduction Mod Ideas

[Tamurlane_Aloia]

TLDR: We need some DR on warframes that cannot survive long enough to make use of adaptation in late game farms/content. Adding a suite of DR mods with different percentages and consistent activation conditions will meet that need.

In Response to Adaptation - Makes survivable warframes tanky but does not benefit warframes that cannot survive the first couple hits

Proposal: Add some non-stackable(like the bullet jump mods, more than one mod from this category cannot be equipped simultaneously) DR mods that have different activation conditions and values to lend some reasonable late-game survivability to warframes that would otherwise be too squishy for some high damage/AoE content: stuff like Eidolons, Arbies, longer endless missions, etc. 

Examples: (Values obviously placeholder, just working with adaptation as the upper limit and working down from there)(Also the mod titles are just meant to describe the play-style they support)

Mobile Frame DR Mod - Refreshable, On Parkour(Slide, Bullet Jump, Regular Jump, Wall Jump, etc), 40% DR for 5 Seconds(Lowest because of the universal nature of the activation condition)

All Arounder Frame DR Mod - Refreshable, On Kill, 50% DR for 8 Seconds(Lower because of broad activation condition and all arounder playstyles are typically already survivable)

Caster Frame DR Mod - Refreshable, On Ability Cast, 60% DR for 15 Seconds(Low because of the easier activation and relative safety of the condition)

Gunner Frame DR Mod - Refreshable, On Primary/Secondary Kill, 70% DR for 12 Seconds(Midway because of the wide ranges of gunplay aka shotgun range to sniper range)

Melee Frame DR Mod - Refreshable, On Melee Kill, 80% DR for 10 Seconds(Higher because of the danger of the enemy proximity)

Adaptation is the highest at 90% because it is the hardest condition to meet: surviving enemy damage.

Benefits: Greatly increases build diversity and uniqueness, people can pick and choose mods to fit their playstyle, gives frames survivability when they need it rather than after a damage instance as adaptation currently does. 

Caveats: Should probably be locked behind mid-higher level content since they are meant to provide survivability in late late game farms/content, DR should also probably be changed to apply only to health and shields to avoid a "rich getting richer situation" with frames like rhino getting free DR on their barriers through these mods.

 

[TheGrimCorsair]

The fix is to shoot Adaptation into the sun and rebalance across-the-board survivability while also removing endless missions from the game.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

1 hour ago, Tamurlane_Aloia said:

Adaptation is the highest at 90% because it is the hardest condition to meet: surviving enemy damage.

Of all these mods, Adaptation is actually the worst. People assume it's 90DR because they don't really know how it works.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

They actually do listen to ideas, even if people ignore most of them. If you actually look on my profile, I don't know if it's possible, I made a post a long time ago about a Rhino rework, and his new passive was an aura that increased his strenght by a % for every enemy caught in it. Thats was before the Ember rework, they actually used this idea on her. Most of the times they use those ideas, maybe not the way we think they would but they do.

People just don't take anything serious enough in here, and they're suffering the consequences on every update.

[keikogi]

It is related the problem , OP problem is some Warframe don't have enough EHP to survive , OP solution is new mods. His solution is actualy fix the ridiculous difference between frames effective HP. His comment is on topic. 

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

9 hours ago, keikogi said:

It is related the problem , OP problem is some Warframe don't have enough EHP to survive , OP solution is new mods. His solution is actualy fix the ridiculous difference between frames effective HP. His comment is on topic. 

All of that is very unfounded, the best frames for survival don't even have high EHP, like: literally anything that can turn invisible and Revenant (he technically has infinite EHP, technically). These frames are the only ones who can go past lvl 250 with no real problem, because they don't rely on the stupid armor system that doesn't scale, conventional tanks can't do this. Just for the sake of luls, I have a screenshot on my Xbox of an enemy reflecting 360k damage to himself, I am very glad I was playing Revenant because nothing else would have survived this (and they say Revenant is bad, at least he is useful...)

 Those opinions are very common for people who probably never used anything past Rhino or Inaros, but if you actually manage to use something else you'll have a taste of how it works. 

 

[Birdframe_Prime]

On 2020-03-30 at 7:54 AM, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

Of all these mods, Adaptation is actually the worst. People assume it's 90DR because they don't really know how it works.

You mean the way it takes the a single damage type from each enemy that damages you to reduce up to 90% and when another enemy damages you it can pick a second, and a third, until you have built up resistances to every damage type the enemies in your mission can deal (as long as you keep them refreshed) so that you have a net total of 90% damage reduction stacked up on top of your own innate weaknesses and resistances (which have currently been updated so that our base Health, Shield and Armour have actually all got a base 0 or 25% resistance to every damage type)?

Oh yeah, people know.

And yeah, in terms of actually acquiring the DR it can be considered the weakest due to needing multiple sources, refreshes and only ever builds up to what you've already received damage from. However, in sustained missions the actual DR now that we've had our Health pools adjusted to be base different from the enemy, can be considered the strongest listed in terms of actual mitigation of damage.

[Tiltskillet]

 

On 2020-03-29 at 11:57 PM, Tamurlane_Aloia said:

In Response to Adaptation - Makes survivable warframes tanky but does not benefit warframes that cannot survive the first couple hits

I like the idea I've seen of a kind of inverse Adaptation:  gives high damage resistance at first, tapering off as more damage is received.   I'm not sure if or under what conditions it should refresh at all, if it needs to be tied to specific damage types like Adaptation, or whether both should be equip-able at once.   But I like the general concept, even if the shield rework has taken some of the verve out of it.

Actually, it might make an interesting shield-specific DR mod. .

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

On 2020-03-31 at 6:33 AM, Birdframe_Prime said:

You mean the way it takes the a single damage type from each enemy that damages you to reduce up to 90% and when another enemy damages you it can pick a second, and a third, until you have built up resistances to every damage type the enemies in your mission can deal (as long as you keep them refreshed) so that you have a net total of 90% damage reduction stacked up on top of your own innate weaknesses and resistances (which have currently been updated so that our base Health, Shield and Armour have actually all got a base 0 or 25% resistance to every damage type)?

Oh yeah, people know.

And yeah, in terms of actually acquiring the DR it can be considered the weakest due to needing multiple sources, refreshes and only ever builds up to what you've already received damage from. However, in sustained missions the actual DR now that we've had our Health pools adjusted to be base different from the enemy, can be considered the strongest listed in terms of actual mitigation of damage.

Bro, pick a tank frame and try your best at enemies above lvl 250. All that logic falls behind because nobody will stand in 1 place getting hit, the problem with Adaptation is the same problem with Nidus: everybody shares the same objective to kill everything as fast as they can, so Warframes/Skills/Mods that rely on stacks end up being very effective on theory, but uneffective in practice. But Adaptation actually is worse than most stack mechanics, while most of them rely on attacking (something you can actively control without being penalized), Adaptation relies in getting hit, the problem that it leads to is what I'm going to talk in the next paragraph.

>> By the time enemies become a big treat, enough to make Adaptation useful, you won't be able to afford getting hits anymore. << You may argue that it's useful for anything from star chart to sortie, maybe 1h in arbitration too, but most tank frames can already afford to do these contents with ease while not using Adaptation, so yeah. 

You don't REALLY know how it works because you're only looking at the mod and not the game and the mod.

Edit: Okay, is the same guy that insisted that Chroma's Vex Armor reduced Slash procs even though bleeding ignores damage reduction. What should I expect...? Always the same faces in here...

Edited April 1, 2020 by (XB1)XG1anBl4derX

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

Bro

Dude. Read the actual comment:

In terms of Acquisition, yeah it’s the weakest, I said that.

What I followed up with was that, in terms of how the actual damage reduction is applied on us, it’s the strongest.

I never denied the main weakness of the mod, but the comment was made because your own words implied that the specific mechanics somehow made it not 90% DR to all absorbed damage types when it is built up.

If that’s not what you were implying, fine, but once you have it built up it remains a 90% DR which can actually be maintained quite well when you combine that with shield gates and other mechanics we have at our disposal. Health is one thing, but considering it applies to our shields as well, we do end up quite tanky with it. More so than stacking on armour would do at least.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

15 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Dude. Read the actual comment:

In terms of Acquisition, yeah it’s the weakest, I said that.

What I followed up with was that, in terms of how the actual damage reduction is applied on us, it’s the strongest.

I never denied the main weakness of the mod, but the comment was made because your own words implied that the specific mechanics somehow made it not 90% DR to all absorbed damage types when it is built up.

If that’s not what you were implying, fine, but once you have it built up it remains a 90% DR which can actually be maintained quite well when you combine that with shield gates and other mechanics we have at our disposal. Health is one thing, but considering it applies to our shields as well, we do end up quite tanky with it. More so than stacking on armour would do at least.

I was talking in general, acquisition/how it works. By the time Adaptation turns to be useful, you won't be able to afford getting hit anymore, I say it because I do endurance runs commonly and Revenant is always my prime choice because he doesn't rely on terrible mechanics (like fixed EHP in a game where enemies scale...like...lol? Balance for...?). 

I can't post my video, not because it's impossible but I would have to take it from Xbox and upload it somewhere to show you, but a lvl 400 enemy (infested, not even corrupted) just reflected 360k back to itself when I was using Revenant, DE was definitely NOT joking when increasing their damage. Now, imagine tanks that depend on Damage Reduction or EHP in general trying to survive THIS, like what? And you expect us to tank hits to maintain Adaptation? Hell no my dude

Even with adaptation, most tanks wouldn't survive this and if they did, there would be only 1 hit left to death (not considering shield gate). Also, they were already causing 100k damage by lvl 250+. 

On the other hand, you offered a mod that gives 80DR with a much better access. Btw, the difference from 80DR to 90DR is x2 Effective Health, so your mod is MUCH better because there is little risk involved. 

Don't get me wrong, tbh I think the mod is fine, I just don't get the hype on Adaptation. The mod really needs a buff on how it works to be universal, because there is little use of it in normal gameplay and no use at all when you should need it.

Edited April 1, 2020 by (XB1)XG1anBl4derX

[Birdframe_Prime]

9 hours ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

On the other hand, you offered a mod that gives 80DR with a much better access.

Oh yeah, the whole debate around switching Umbral Fibre to percentage DR rather than Armour, that was quite the long argument... Scaled with the Umbral set bonus up to 80%... That one would have been a genuinely fantastic trade-off and made a full triple-Umbral build really worth it, especially with the update to shields.

Must remember to propose that in other places.

Hey, @Tamurlane_Aloia what do you think of that idea? Swap out some of the base Armour mods and make them percent DR instead? Balance them up so that if they were adding the basic amount of DR that the Armour would have, but as the DR overall instead of just to Health. Might need a little balancing so they don't stack to 100% with Abilities, but it's a thought.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

On 2020-03-30 at 1:25 AM, TheGrimCorsair said:

The fix is to shoot Adaptation into the sun and rebalance across-the-board survivability while also removing endless missions from the game.

That is such a horrible idea. Adaption may need help, but endless missions are the best part of the game, and removing them would ruin the game as a whole

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

6 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Oh yeah, the whole debate around switching Umbral Fibre to percentage DR rather than Armour, that was quite the long argument... Scaled with the Umbral set bonus up to 80%... That one would have been a genuinely fantastic trade-off and made a full triple-Umbral build really worth it, especially with the update to shields.

Must remember to propose that in other places.

Hey, @Tamurlane_Aloia what do you think of that idea? Swap out some of the base Armour mods and make them percent DR instead? Balance them up so that if they were adding the basic amount of DR that the Armour would have, but as the DR overall instead of just to Health. Might need a little balancing so they don't stack to 100% with Abilities, but it's a thought.

I think Adaptation should give initial 50% DR and it stacked to 90% while getting hit.

This would solve it's requirements to fully stack being too much for squishy frames, and it would solve the other problem about tank frames that I stated earlier.

Edited April 2, 2020 by (XB1)XG1anBl4derX