Limbo is unfairly hated

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

Watch the video. What did Joey say about BEING FLEXIBLE and about BEING PREPARED and that ITS NOT THEIR RESPONSIBILITY NOR DE'S?

Any team, even IRL especially in the military where I work has 2 types of people. Leaders and subordinates. If you're a bad leader, you're a bad team player. If you're a bad subordinate, you're a bad team player. Limbo just happens to be a leader type warframe because his abilities control the flow of the battle field. If you're not humble enough to accept that because YOU want to be the leader doing his own thing, then that makes YOU as the bad team player. A Limbo player who doesn't know how to properly control the flow of the game is just as bad, though.

huh? limbos job as point defense is done by others without being disruptive.

• volt can point defense without blocking his team
• frost can point defense without blocking his team
• wisp can point defense without blocking her team
• gara can point defense without blocking her team
• nidus can point defense without blocking his team
• nekros can point defense without blocking his team
• revenant can point defense without blocking his team
• nova can point defense without blocking her team
• zephyr can point defense without blocking her team

whats limbos excuse?

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

16 hours ago, DroopingPuppy said:

That's not true at all. Limbo's design is too selfish and what he can do is forces the others to follow his style or bust. He acts as a judge in the game, penalizes everyone as he pleases or they needs to strictly follows his lead. That's not the team play. Thats only playing tyranny.

You can absolutely be a team player as Limbo.  People literally just refuse to learn how to use his kit to it's fullest.  It's far easier to ignore the nuances to his kit that allow you to play him differently and just go big bubble long stun.  Limbo gets hate because people play him badly.  Not because Limbo himself is poorly designed.

[EinheriarJudith]

12 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

You can absolutely be a team player as Limbo.  People literally just refuse to learn how to use his kit to it's fullest.  It's far easier to ignore the nuances to his kit that allow you to play him differently and just go big bubble long stun.  Limbo gets hate because people play him badly.  Not because Limbo himself is poorly designed.

if you have to patch in an opt out just to stop people from abusing, its poorly designed. banish has a worse mechanic than its previous, stasis was bad for everyone when they brought it.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

42 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

if you have to patch in an opt out just to stop people from abusing, its poorly designed. banish has a worse mechanic than its previous, stasis was bad for everyone when they brought it.

shrug

If easy to abuse mechanics are a defacto insta bad design stamp then most of the roster is guilty.  Regardless of personal opinion Limbo is perfectly capable of being an effective frame that doesn't hinder his team.  Which is my point.

[EinheriarJudith]

28 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

shrug

If easy to abuse mechanics are a defacto insta bad design stamp then most of the roster is guilty.  Regardless of personal opinion Limbo is perfectly capable of being an effective frame that doesn't hinder his team.  Which is my point.

name another frame that can instantly shut you off from enemies or hacking a console. ill wait.

[AltairFerenc]

All you need to do is roll if you being put in tto the rift, and you can't argue it's hard because the colors go into budget borderlands if you are in the rift. Limbo is the best frame in EVERY mission type you need to defend something too.
He is better solo ofc like almost every frame 

[EinheriarJudith]

9 hours ago, AltairFerenc said:

All you need to do is roll if you being put in tto the rift, and you can't argue it's hard because the colors go into budget borderlands if you are in the rift. Limbo is the best frame in EVERY mission type you need to defend something too.
He is better solo ofc like almost every frame 

The frame literally intrudes on your playstyle forcing you to do things you shouldnt have to. you get banished you are forced to roll to be able to use your weapons again.

[PsiWarp]

There are many ways to go about changing him for the better. If it's within the realm of possibility, suggest it so the Devs can take note.

Cataclysm

The shrinking borders will now push Riftbound enemies inward. If Stasis is active this push is strong enough to hold them within the bubble, if no Stasis enemies can break free and leave the bubble.

If an enemy is stuck on an object or wall while pushed by Cataclysm, it can break free of the bubble (facilitates enemies moving towards you).

Object Interactions

As a Warframe, if you are holding a datamass and try to insert it into a Mobile Defense Terminal, or try to hack a console, or open lockers, or use elevators, or activate Life Support Capsules- any action key-related interaction with objects that are outside the Rift, you (the player) is automatically forced out of the Rift so the interaction can work.

This change skips the time wasting roll-out-of-Banish and use-Operator-but-I-haven't-done-The-War-Within parts so even new players can play with the Rift.

[kwlingo]

On 2020-03-30 at 4:16 AM, Squick said:

Visuals that range from annoying to blinding, can prevent people from hacking (I've had multiple limbos get me killed while I was hacking in sorties by using cataclysm nearby), and then there's the ones that have never heard of effective hit point mods that go down if something so much as glances at them outside of stasis.

 

Lots of ways limbo can be incredibly annoying, even unintentionally. Very few ways he can be used well. Fortunately, most people seem to understand long duration cataclysm + stasis and never touch anything else at least.

The only effective way to use Limbo on spy is to go in and out of operator mode while hacking and keeping operator in void mode to hide from enemies. One of the best spy frames because it can destroy all cameras and pass all lasers. The only other one who can do that is Wukong's cloud. The only downside is if the cloud finishes and you are within camera range you will trigger the alarm count down.

[AltairFerenc]

8 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

The frame literally intrudes on your playstyle forcing you to do things you shouldnt have to. you get banished you are forced to roll to be able to use your weapons again.

what about nuke frames and weapons? They are the reason I play solo because all of the time when I go far enough so I can actually do anything right when I'm about to shoot ar anything they just nuke the map. 
And honsetly if pressing 1 button is bad for you you should play solo too, I hate volt WAY MUCH MORE, they make go from 1 room to another if I dare to press W to move forward just because they spam speed and I move like a hamster with coffine addiction I can't move the way I want, I can't aim the way I want AND I have to wait for the durration run out if I want to play the way I want to, but pressing shift if you accidently get put into the rift because you run infront of a limbo is too much that's your problem.

[Colyeses]

22 hours ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

Limbo is not a solo frame.

Limbo is absolutely a solo frame. People don't hate him because 'they want to be the star' and 'they're not teamplayers'. They hate Limbo because Limbo controls their weaponry, which is their main damage output. They hate Limbo because Limbo disables resource acquisition and some mission progression. 

Any given Warframe, a bad player has little to no impact, a good one will wipe maps. Limbo, however... a good one will have no remarkable impact, a bad one will fail your mission.

The problem is the rift's limitations. No weapons is impossible for most frames because ability damage scales really poorly. And the interaction limitation in pick-ups and consoles is a huge hindrance. He needs a rework and a harsh softening of the hurdle that the rift produces.

[Sylonus]

7 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

huh? limbos job as point defense is done by others without being disruptive.

• volt can point defense without blocking his team
• frost can point defense without blocking his team
• wisp can point defense without blocking her team
• gara can point defense without blocking her team
• nidus can point defense without blocking his team
• nekros can point defense without blocking his team
• revenant can point defense without blocking his team
• nova can point defense without blocking her team
• zephyr can point defense without blocking her team

whats limbos excuse?

To be FAIIIIIIR

• volt can point defense without blocking his team with his 3, but if he uses his 4 on tanky enemies it can slow things down a lot
• frost can point defense while blocking his team less of the of the time, but can still be pretty disruptive sometimes
• wisp can point defense without blocking her team assuming her stun mote has low range or the location has no close walls, or people use it well
• gara can point defense without blocking her team now that they fixed her wall not to block certain weapons, and she makes her wall relatively small
• nidus can point defense without blocking his team as long as he puts his 2 in convenient places
• nekros can point defense without blocking his team as much as limbo, but his shadows still cause quite a bit of visual pollution
• revenant can point defense without blocking as much now that they've changed the way his 1 work, but it still slows things down often
• nova can point defense without blocking her team as much as limbo, but slowing down mobs still can be annoying
• zephyr can point defense without blocking her team as long as she's using her 3 build, her 4 build wanders everywhere and slows things down a lot
• limbo can point defense without blocking his team too much of the time as long as he minimizes his range or chooses very specific missions

Don't get me wrong, when played wrongly limbo is by far the most disruptive of them, and I definitely think his kit should change due to that, but the issue isn't that Limbo "can't be played without being disruptive", only that he's far more likely to be disruptive, and when he is disruptive, he is moreso than anyone else.

[vegetosayajin]

People never get mad at me for playing limbo(not boasting, just stating observations) because I change my builds for a mission before starting it and don't put a rift except if I see if it's absolutely needed (if the schmucks begin to die). I use min range bubble when needed(only encapsuling the defend objective or max range when needed.
For example if I see in this event that the team destroys the sentients in seconds and none of them are hurt I place the rift only at the end for the beacons.
When I see they struggle to kill only a level 40-50 sentient I put the rift, stop and kill em. and we go on our merry way without needing to res them every few seconds.
When you don't know if a team could defend a capsule ( strange as it is, it happens 😄 ), bring a min range limbo.
You always have your exodia to do damage and most of the time outdamage most of them if you are worried about this.
Setup and awareness and no one would protest.

 

8 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

whats limbos excuse?

None of them could defend an objective at very high levels if you don't have a vazarin user, is that enough?

Edited March 31, 2020 by vegetosayajin

[DroopingPuppy]

8 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

The frame literally intrudes on your playstyle forcing you to do things you shouldnt have to. you get banished you are forced to roll to be able to use your weapons again.

Yeah. For me, the presence of Limbo forces me to have the habit to constantly roll on nowhere. Limbos are leaves the trap hole that trap me the rift, and some Limbo are actively trap my by his 1, so I have no option to make the habit and used to it. It is the truth of so called 'adaptation' and 'team play' they says, and it proves why what they said is nothing but a lie.

It is only toxic and malevolent, really.

---------------------------------------

I do value good Limbos when I meet on the public missions. Some of them are knew how to NOT disrupt the others, while do their duty. I don't blame them - and I can't. We have no reason to hate the others with no reason.

But, many random Limbo are different. They just mess up the everything and thinks that what I did is just help the others. How terrible?

Also, the mechanism is too easy to protect the enemy as well, and that's why DE have the most part of the responsibility. Intended troll is a fault of the individual player. But it is DE that make a tool that making many ignorant player to become the enemy and does not fix it.

 

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

9 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

name another frame that can instantly shut you off from enemies or hacking a console. ill wait.

A comment that doesn't disprove my statement.  I'll just save both our times and see myself out.

[DroopingPuppy]

Just now, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

A comment that doesn't disprove my statement.  I'll just save both our times and see myself out.

Well you may flee, but it doesn't prove that you are right. I doubt you can, though.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

1 minute ago, DroopingPuppy said:

Well you may flee, but it doesn't prove that you are right. I doubt you can, though.

Judith is attempting to argue with me on what does and doesn't count as poor design.  My point from the first post I made in the thread is that Limbo can be played properly in such a way to not be disruptive/harmful for his team.  So me choosing to leave the convo is me opting out of the pointless discussion on what is and isn't good frame design.  I'm not arguing that Limbo can't/shouldn't be improved.

Again, merely stating he can be played in a team of random players and not be a negative experience.  Since Judith isn't even contesting that i've no reason to continue a discussion with them.  And frankly I don't wish to participate in the rabbit hole that conversation can lead to.

[IenzoAin]

As a Limbo player with quite a decent amount of hours, not a Limbo main though, I can think of several things that might annoy other players. One of which could be that they ran into one of your portals after you dodge while they were spinning around like a beyblade not noticing they are in the rift until they see that they are dealing no damage and they automatically blame you for gameplay sabotage or trolling. That may or may not be intentional on the Limbo's part though. Another thing that might make players tilt is if what you are doing is countering their builds' design like if you are using Cataclysm/Stasis while they are trying to use a Speedva. However, there are Limbos that would try to be actively disruptive like banishing their own teammates to troll although I honestly rare run into them if I do I would report them.
That being said, Limbo is extremely useful on pretty much any kind of mission especially Hives bleh. And it honestly doesn't even bother me anyways since I use a Plague Kripath with Exodia Contagion so even if they do banish me. That just protects me. 😉

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Again, merely stating he can be played in a team of random players and not be a negative experience.  Since Judith isn't even contesting that i've no reason to continue a discussion with them.  And frankly I don't wish to participate in the rabbit hole that conversation can lead to.

if the only way a frame can play with randoms is not using any of his powers so that he isnt disruptive, it defeates the purpose of using the frame in the first place.

limbo can be used in random group on survival, defense, fissure excavation, onslaught, exterminate, and bounties, if he is not using his powers. taking limbo to survival is trolling, taking him to defense is trolling, taking him to exterminate is trolling, taking him anywhere that the main objective involves killing is trolling.

Edit: when i see limbo in arbitration the only option left to me is to leave that match no matter how good the limbo player is.

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by EinheriarJudith

[EinheriarJudith]

all DE needs to do to make this frame loved by anyone and everyone (and its real simple), is to make the rift not block the squad. no blocking guns, no blocking melee, no blocking terminals. if his CC needs to take a bit of nerf so be it. limbos CC is so strong that it is a completely unnecessary element for anything short of enemies at levels where game balance is broken.

[Redfeather75]

Terrible skill design for a co-op game. Shocking it got through rigorous play testing too. That last sentence was written so we could all laugh.

[Sylonus]

14 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

name another frame that can instantly shut you off from enemies or hacking a console. ill wait.

As far as shutting you off from killing enemies, Nyx's 1 and Grendel's 1 can stop you from killing enemies, though admittedly not to Limbo's extent.

Not even limbo can fully stop you from hacking consoles, because Operator exists, he can stop your warframe from doing it, but so can Loki with switch teleport and Vauban with dash pad forcing movement by the console.

[EinheriarJudith]

2 hours ago, Sylonus said:

As far as shutting you off from killing enemies, Nyx's 1 and Grendel's 1 can stop you from killing enemies, though admittedly not to Limbo's extent.

Not even limbo can fully stop you from hacking consoles, because Operator exists, he can stop your warframe from doing it, but so can Loki with switch teleport and Vauban with dash pad forcing movement by the console.

nyx's 1 doesnt stop you from killing. the enemy becomes a walking corpse after enough damage is applied. grendels 1 doesnt stop you either. feast is a frontal cone not 360 and it doesnt turn off your weapons.

• Players using Hacking terminals will not be affected by Mag's Pull power or Loki's Switch power.

the only one that might apply here is vauban. even then its not something you can mistakenly do. you have to go out of your way to be trolling filth.

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by EinheriarJudith

[Sylonus]

Nyx's 1 delays your killing, as does Grendel's 1, inside Grendel's belly the mob is alive, and taking damage but if it's tanky it delays the kill, it's effectively like turning your weapon off for that target, not unlike Limbo's banish.

I didn't know they made it so you can't switch teleport someone hacking, that's nice, and don't get me wrong, I agree that Limbo needs adjustment, but there are other warframes with lesser (but still potentially disruptive abilities).

[(PSN)GallonOfSkimMilk]

Limbo slows the game down.

If there was a matchmaking filter like there is a filter in trade chat I’d have set to no matchmaking with Limbos or Frosts.