Jump to content

Operation: Scarlet Spear: Titania Prime 27.3.7


Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

We made a hasty change in Hotfix 27.3.6 that removed Venari’s Heal aura from affecting Oplinks AND Defense Targets. Firstly, the terminology of calling Venari’s Defense Target healing a ‘fix’ was incorrect, so apologies there on my behalf. It’s correct to say it was a feature for Venari, considering it had its own Tip for it! The change stemmed from our desire to resolve Operation exploits as quickly as possible, and we didn't communicate this properly.

We’re doing a deeper review on abilities that heal Defense Targets that we can speak to in the coming days.

Apologies as well for the late reply on this topic. We’ll update everyone when we’ve dug deeper and have an action plan.
 

The problem is, we wouldn't have jumped to conclusions if this wasn't the first time an obvious feature was listed as a "bug" to be fixed.

  • Like 16
Link to post
Share on other sites

(I want to preface this by saying that nothing I'm about to say is necessarily directed at Megan, but rather at whoever is making these decisions behind the scenes. I know she's just a community lead with little to no hand in the actual technical stuff and I'm not trying to shoot the messenger, I'm responding to the sentiments in her post, not to her in particular.)
 

2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

The change stemmed from our desire to resolve Operation exploits as quickly as possible, and we didn't communicate this properly.

Using Venari the way she has always (100% intentionally, confirmed beyond any shadow of a doubt at this point) functioned is NOT in any way, shape, or form an """exploit""" and calling it that is incredibly disingenuous, not to mention insulting to your players. Y'all want the OpLinks to be an exception to the rule, whatever, fine, but don't accuse people of """exploiting""" for not being able to read your minds. Unbelievable.

On that note, why even remove Venari's ability to heal OpLinks at all? It doesn't make the deployable reinforcement modules pointless, plenty of people were still using them and would continue to still use them as not every team is going to have a defense frame, Khora or otherwise. Furthermore the heal is very small, especially when compared to the amount of damage enemies deal as the missions scale - you still have to actually defend the OpLinks, and that is GOOD for the event. It encourages frame choice diversity (something y'all claim to care about) as well as taking on a more active defense role instead of just hiding inside a Limbo bubble and semi-afk'ing the whole thing, which, by the way, trivializes the event WAY more than healing the OpLinks by outright denying them the opportunity to take damage in the first place. Just because you didn't originally plan for something doesn't mean it's bad for the game or that it should be changed or removed.

This really just feels like yet another case of trying to force players to play the way YOU want them to play for absolutely no reason other than petty, incomprehensible "vision" and/or "intention", with little to zero regard for whether it's actually healthy for the game or not and whether the community wants it or not, and this staggeringly out of touch design philosophy is getting really, REALLY old. If Warframe were a tabletop game, DE is the kind of DM that only lets you fight their monster exactly the way that they "intend" for you to fight it, fun and innovative problem solving be damned, and any tabletop player will tell you, nobody likes or wants to play with a DM like that. Nobody. Incidentally, this is also why so many people don't want to share cool niche builds they come up with for fear of things they enjoy being arbitrarily determined to be "unintended" and patched out, but I digress.

And all that aside, changing the way a particular frame functions, (presumably) permanently, because of a temporary event? Are you KIDDING me? That just reeks of incompetence and laziness on behalf of the implementation team. Crap like this is EXACTLY why people are so fed up with the developmental side of Warframe and have little to no hope of the state of the game actually improving.
 

2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

We’re doing a deeper review on abilities that heal Defense Targets that we can speak to in the coming days.

Forgive me for having no faith whatsoever in whatever the heck this is supposed to mean. Next patch notes: "Fixed Trinity's Blessing affecting Eidolon Lures after reviewing how healing abilities interact with non-player entities.", and still no fix for falling through the map forever or for the new infinite stagger lock from the Hydrolyst's lightning. I wish I could say I were joking.

I don't know what else to say. Removing Venari's feature of healing Defense Targets in the first place was a huge mistake, and while a response on the matter at all is appreciated, this is not the appropriate or correct response. I really, really hope y'all do right by us, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm sorry, but that's the expectation (or lack thereof) that I've become accustomed to after this kind of thing happens time and time again.

Prove me wrong. Prove us wrong.

Please.

  • Like 31
Link to post
Share on other sites
Il y a 3 heures, [DE]Megan a dit :

We made a hasty change in Hotfix 27.3.6 that removed Venari’s Heal aura from affecting Oplinks AND Defense Targets. Firstly, the terminology of calling Venari’s Defense Target healing a ‘fix’ was incorrect, so apologies there on my behalf. It’s correct to say it was a feature for Venari, considering it had its own Tip for it! The change stemmed from our desire to resolve Operation exploits as quickly as possible, and we didn't communicate this properly.

We’re doing a deeper review on abilities that heal Defense Targets that we can speak to in the coming days.

Apologies as well for the late reply on this topic. We’ll update everyone when we’ve dug deeper and have an action plan.
 

Thanks for the transparency there.. BUT again it SHOULDNT  be called an exploit . It is a clever use of in game mechanic that change absolutely nothing  to how the event is getting played  . Y'all want the OpLinks to be an exception to the rule : not fine  because by "removing" it you are just messing even more with the code with more exceptions that just arent needed . Cant your team just let fun interaction stay in game .

Also Exploit? Limbo AFKing every event he touches (and include a defense) is fine, but Venari being able to heal the target 50hp/sec is a #*!%ing exploit? We can all agree that Limbo is a nightmare frame to balance, but the point is how really inconsistent you all are about way of playing the game

Want a list of what they stealth nerfed or "fixed" recently that created an outcry  and there are just some few examples here Gara "death touch", Mesa with Velocity (not working) (due to an outcry they decided to remove the fix), Chroma "fix" , Wukong sprint speed "bugfix", etc .. because DE only like to remove fun or efficient or what have been years in the game

Edited by MunsuLight
  • Like 15
Link to post
Share on other sites
il y a 3 minutes, Beelzebabe a dit :

(I want to preface this by saying that nothing I'm about to say is necessarily directed at Megan, but rather at whoever is making these decisions behind the scenes. I know she's just a community lead with little to no hand in the actual technical stuff and I'm not trying to shoot the messenger, I'm responding to the sentiments in her post, not to her in particular.)
 

Using Venari the way she has always (100% intentionally, confirmed beyond any shadow of a doubt at this point) functioned is NOT in any way, shape, or form an """exploit""" and calling it that is incredibly disingenuous, not to mention insulting to your players. Y'all want the OpLinks to be an exception to the rule, whatever, fine, but don't accuse people of """exploiting""" for not being able to read your minds. Unbelievable.

On that note, why even remove Venari's ability to heal OpLinks at all? It doesn't make the deployable reinforcement modules pointless, plenty of people were still using them and would continue to still use them as not every team is going to have a defense frame, Khora or otherwise. Furthermore the heal is very small, especially when compared to the amount of damage enemies deal as the missions scale - you still have to actually defend the OpLinks, and that is GOOD for the event. It encourages frame choice diversity (something y'all claim to care about) as well as taking on a more active defense role instead of just hiding inside a Limbo bubble and semi-afk'ing the whole thing, which, by the way, trivializes the event WAY more than healing the OpLinks by outright denying them the opportunity to take damage in the first place. Just because you didn't originally plan for something doesn't mean it's bad for the game or that it should be changed or removed.

This really just feels like yet another case of trying to force players to play the way YOU want them to play for absolutely no reason other than petty, incomprehensible "vision" and/or "intention", with little to zero regard for whether it's actually healthy for the game or not and whether the community wants it or not, and this staggeringly out of touch design philosophy is getting really, REALLY old. If Warframe were a tabletop game, DE is the kind of DM that only lets you fight their monster exactly the way that they "intend" for you to fight it, fun and innovative problem solving be damned, and any tabletop player will tell you, nobody likes or wants to play with a DM like that. Nobody. Incidentally, this is also why so many people don't want to share cool niche builds they come up with for fear of things they enjoy being arbitrarily determined to be "unintended" and patched out, but I digress.

And all that aside, changing the way a particular frame functions, (presumably) permanently, because of a temporary event? Are you KIDDING me? That just reeks of incompetence and laziness on behalf of the implementation team. Crap like this is EXACTLY why people are so fed up with the developmental side of Warframe and have little to no hope of the state of the game actually improving.
 

Forgive me for having no faith whatsoever in whatever the heck this is supposed to mean. Next patch notes: "Fixed Trinity's Blessing affecting Eidolon Lures after reviewing how healing abilities interact with non-player entities.", and still no fix for falling through the map forever or for the new infinite stagger lock from the Hydrolyst's lightning. I wish I could say I were joking.

I don't know what else to say. Removing Venari's feature of healing Defense Targets in the first place was a huge mistake, and while a response on the matter at all is appreciated, this is not the appropriate or correct response. I really, really hope y'all do right by us, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm sorry, but that's the expectation (or lack thereof) that I've become accustomed to after this kind of thing happens time and time again.

Prove me wrong. Prove us wrong.

Please.

Also this 100% .. It is not the first time you are doing a "fix" (essentially a nerf) because people are playing the game in a way you dont want to.. 

  • Like 14
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

We made a hasty change in Hotfix 27.3.6 that removed Venari’s Heal aura from affecting Oplinks AND Defense Targets. Firstly, the terminology of calling Venari’s Defense Target healing a ‘fix’ was incorrect, so apologies there on my behalf. It’s correct to say it was a feature for Venari, considering it had its own Tip for it! The change stemmed from our desire to resolve Operation exploits as quickly as possible, and we didn't communicate this properly.

We’re doing a deeper review on abilities that heal Defense Targets that we can speak to in the coming days.

Apologies as well for the late reply on this topic. We’ll update everyone when we’ve dug deeper and have an action plan.
 

DE talks a lot about nerfing things in the name of build diversity, which is fine. But when you constantly make it so Warframes are unable to do the things they are supposed to do, what's the point of using different frames? We have all these frames with unique abilities, but now every time something comes out and players come up with a creative idea on how to use a Warframe, you smash it to bits because it's an "exploit." Rather than jumping to the "completely disable" button as a solution, make adjustments.

  • Like 12
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MarrikBroom said:

Put a two meter nully buble around the oplink. Or even a meter bubble. Ther you go tophat b gone.

Good idea. There's precedence for this too. The endurance drift test on Lua prevents nullifier bubbles being opened over the test area. Most annoying on the last mobile defense sortie I did there when someone decided to start the challenge. I have no idea how it affects other abilities though.

I think it's a problem with crowd control abilities in general. Either they're useless because they get in the way of killing things, or they're overpowered because they're fire and forget AoEs with little to no interactivity.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

We’re doing a deeper review on abilities that heal Defense Targets that we can speak to in the coming days.

Hopefully it involves allowing -more- abilities to heal and otherwise buff defense targets, even if it's at a penalty.  Frankly it's depressing how many support abilities are incapable of this in what should be a signature game mode for support-focused frames.

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

resolve Operation exploits as quickly as possible

You do realize that the current meta team doesn't even include a Khora, right? Instead, it includes a Limbo with enough range to make sure that not a single uplink loses more than a couple hit points through the entire 17 Condrix/5 Murex run. And yet you go out of your way, breaking a different feature in the process to "fix" an ability to heal them? 

Please stop making hasty decisions like that, it doesn't do you any favors. There are many more issues (glaring ones!) with Scarlet Spear than Venari healing an uplink. 

  • Like 15
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

We’re doing a deeper review on abilities that heal Defense Targets that we can speak to in the coming days.

Firstly, thank you for acknowledging the incorrect terminology and communicating with us. While the abilities' ability to affect Defense Targets is being reviewed, could you forward to the review team the overall sentiment of the community regarding the status and abilities not affecting bosses and objectives too? It feels off when we have all these great abilities that just can't be used in situations where it really matters. That, and it disproportionately advantages frames like Limbo over healing/support frames.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, xHeretic said:

OPLINK heal was an exploit.

I disagree, it worked as intended, just DE doesn't have foresight so when it finally got point blank they knee-jerked it out of there. 

  

2 hours ago, Tahata said:

DE talks a lot about nerfing things in the name of build diversity

 That idea is fine if there truly is another build that is fun to use. Limbo/Gara are the easiest to use for solo (and squads admittedly), so if they somehow nerf limbo for this event, they'll have to go down the list of others too. When you start removing what makes unique warframes unique, what are you left? With how they knee-jerk handled venari I have no hope they'd do it competently. 

  

1 hour ago, Reifnir said:

(glaring ones!)

 I'd argue if players are using cheese like limbo to bypass the boredom (like most did with Dog Days, aka AFK) then we aren't at fault but DE is. It's literally mobile defense for multiple hours, which we've already done, for hundreds or thousands of hours. I don't blame those that are using limbo for the event, heck I'd join them if I had good enough internet - but I already pushed myself to get Kuva Liches done, I can't do it for this. 

  

3 hours ago, Beelzebabe said:

Prove me wrong. Prove us wrong.

Would be a nice change of pace, but with how DE has been the past 6 months I've lost hope. Just sitting here giving what little advice I can while watching what I perceive to be a train-wreck. KL/RJ/SS the grind is above and beyond what it has been prior, excluding Fortuna/Plains which are their own mess of grind, but just as bad.

While the "work at home" thing is definitely hindering them a bit, those who fool themselves into thinking it would be drastically better, are just that - fooling themselves.

 

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

for the second time me and a friend maxed out 5000 score on a condrix run, 100/100 murrex cleard and no victory bonus payout what so ever! even after the new fix today! DEV pls fix this bugg!!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me see if I understand this about the so called exploit. So venarii whose healing which has been working since Khora came on scene is now not ok because it heals the oplinks, even though it probably did the same to defense pods, but that is ok?? I'm mean what's next making Limbo's cat no longer able to cover the oplinks as well?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

Put a two meter nully buble around the oplink. Or even a meter bubble. Ther you go tophat b gone.

This is actually not too bad an idea , But Instead of a fixed nullifier bubble the condrix could release those scrambus waves/ demolyst waves to nullify abilities randomly. at least it wont be a complete AFK fest.

Let it be known that i enjoy Limbo and play as him even outside of the scarlet spear and do dislike nullifiers ,

but making an event where one frame can cheese it is an extremely huge oversight that should be fixed.

Its dissapointing to see one of the most unique frames we have used to technically not play the game.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tinklzs said:

 That idea is fine if there truly is another build that is fun to use. Limbo/Gara are the easiest to use for solo (and squads admittedly), so if they somehow nerf limbo for this event, they'll have to go down the list of others too. When you start removing what makes unique warframes unique, what are you left? With how they knee-jerk handled venari I have no hope they'd do it competently. 

Maybe my point wasn't clear enough. I'm not calling for a nerf of frames, I'm saying their nerfing of frame abilities is doing the opposite of their stated goal. DE makes changes saying they want to have build diversity, yet continue to nerf warframe synergies and powers that actively decrease the pool of fun viable options .It's contradictory and it's negatively impacting the game. As I said, when they constantly make it so Warframes are unable to do the things they are supposed to do, what's the point? It makes an already grindy game feel even more grindy and repetitive. I was challenging them to come up with a creative solution rather than trying to pull one over on the community by saying something that works as intended needs to be "fixed" because its a "bug" or an "exploit".

I hope this was more clear.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

We made a hasty change in Hotfix 27.3.6 that removed Venari’s Heal aura from affecting Oplinks AND Defense Targets. Firstly, the terminology of calling Venari’s Defense Target healing a ‘fix’ was incorrect, so apologies there on my behalf. It’s correct to say it was a feature for Venari, considering it had its own Tip for it! The change stemmed from our desire to resolve Operation exploits as quickly as possible, and we didn't communicate this properly.

We’re doing a deeper review on abilities that heal Defense Targets that we can speak to in the coming days.

Apologies as well for the late reply on this topic. We’ll update everyone when we’ve dug deeper and have an action plan.
 

This is fine.  It was pretty clear the intention with the OP link game play: some other endurance factor independent of player power and stubbornness. 

BUT; if DE makes changes to "abilities that heal Defense Targets" that punish me for not playing frost and limbo every game that feature them, I'm going to be disappointed.  Events are ok.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe is an unpopular opinion but I don't like the new floaty animation for Titania Prime. It feels...wrong, like the glitch you get when you have a faulty internet connection 

DE, can you get the walking animation from vanilla Titania as optional? I would pay big plat for that...

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

PLEASE BUMP THIS 

with the recent release of scarlet spear (thank you its fun <3) basically the BASMU is bugged and wont give you health back if your not the host of the session and the fancy particles and  mechanics on the projectiles dont work unless your the host either and the gun doesnt function as intended can someone plz fix this as i love sentient weaponry 

love u guys as DE ❤️ 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

   Still no fix for

And I will keep posting it till it gets noticed. Eidolons were in a healthy but stale meta, we needed more options not less. And you just leave of one interaction bug that kills one specific build. AGAIN, we want you to focus on polishing the game, not pumping out new content that is not even balanced.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tinklzs said:

I disagree, it worked as intended, just DE doesn't have foresight so when it finally got point blank they knee-jerked it out of there. 

Nope, oplink it's healed through the oplink reinforcement (since the begining of the event). Vazarin can't heal it or make it invulnerable, Trinity bless shouldn't either, then khora neither following DE logic. But normal defense objectives (excavators, kuva converted life support, regular defense (artifacts, cryopods, etc), hijack defense targets, operatives (rescue/arbis/sorties), hijacked drones, defection survivors) SHOULD be healed as intended (vazarin and khora). I can't take into account "new" mechanics, so, by their definition, OPLINK is an exception and has always been. I don't think they are gonna backpedal on that, to force "cooperation" (don't get me wrong, I hate that "exception", makes no sense for me either). That's the diference, a forced mechanic unavaible for every other defense objective, and that's fine. If they add another way to heal defense objectives instead the old school "keep 1 enemy alive until the HP can handle another wave" or cheesing it with vazarin (believe me, vazarin is broken as #*!%, while I love it and use it 100% of my play time, because I main my void demon, but I can deny it's pretty much broken, just like magus lockdown before the nerf), I would gladly take it. I'm not optimistic on their future plans for heals, I knew since a long time vazarin is going to get nerfed, I disliked a lot the "stealth nerf" and I'm pissed because they were disrepectful to the playerbase with that approach. DE Megan already apologized, but as I've said before, apologies without actions means nothing but nice words. Personally, I need actions instead of words. Bring back Venari heal and then communicate the changes BEFORE the ipdate, just like many other times. Isn't that hard, being straight and honest. I blame the community too for that, both sides (we and DE) are having serious issues with communication and this should be fixed for the health of the game and the community (in case that matters for the devs, I think it does matters).

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Seriously; it is ONE  GUY who is responsible for all this misery (re; Venari Nerf; et-al) yet, for some reason the rest of the dev team lets HIM get away with this crap.
No.
HARD NO.
Megan and Reb don't need us instantly dumping hate and bile on their in-boxes because of ONE PERSON who seems to think that nerf in a looter shooter is fun.
They are NOT exploits.
STOP CALLING CORE GAME MECHANICS exploits.
STOP THE GRIND loads... seriously. Stop.  grind is okay; GRIND is not. 
You want to make an event hard?  Do something like disruption; yes I know some people dislike it, but THAT mode requires co-ordination, team work and adaptive thinking.
 

 

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, zakaryx said:

People would just use gara or frost or any other cc frame like nyx. Spamming CC is still easier than actually killing sentients

Ironically, your not far from the truth ( none of the boys or I have Limbo).

Typical Family run ( When SS is actually working that is);

Pops; Frost Prime

Oldest; Slowva Prime

2nd Oldest; Volt Prime

Youngest; Mesa Prime

 

Scenario; 

1) Zip to target, dock and drop

2) Zip to target, bubble and deploy OL

3) Slow baddies, place electric fences, then spam CC

4) Youngest enjoys the target practice... For about 2-3 runs ( if lucky enough that something doesn't go FUBAR)

5) Rinse and repeat.

 

So, yeah. Fun family time... 

Haven't had the oppritunity to see a Limbo in action, but I'm guessing it's chill ( youngest says I need to up my slang a bit, so there ya go).

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, zakaryx said:

People would just use gara or frost or any other cc frame like nyx. Spamming CC is still easier than actually killing sentients

Except for Khora because they pre-nerfed her CC 

All sentients completely ignore Strangledome and Ensnare only partially works on some of them sometimes, unless they just don't feel like it. Serisously Battalysts just give zero f..... heccs. 

So after making her 2 super inconsistent, totally taking away her 4 (hope you didn't incorporate Pilfering Strangledome into your Khora build, I know I did)  they went on to remove her 3s ability to heal defense targets because for whatever reason the only way they want people to be able to heal the OpLinks is to rely on some flotilla rando to pop in 75k worth of quarters. 

I mean at least she's still got whipclaw, at least until that is deemed problematic to the current ballance MacGuffin and just like that she doesn't anymore. Then she can truly be like Man with Machete (read: trappless trapper from DBD) 😕 

Edited by Oreades
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...