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Revert the Wise Razor Stance


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Dear Digital Extremes, can you PLEASE revert the Wise Razor stance for Two-handed Nikanas? Before the melee rework phase (Old Blood update), the stance felt amazing. Nowadays tho, it feels incredibly slow and hard to use. Before the melee rework this stance was incredible and fun to use but now, it's just annoying. It has killed the serious use of Two-handed Nikanas completely. The only one that's being used right now is the Pennant, and that's only for heavy attack builds. If you could revert it to how it was before the melee changes back in November, that would be lovely. Just make it so that the old pause combo is when moving forward and the current forward combo is the standing still combo. The block combo should also be brought back in my opinion.

The worst part is that the stance was made with melee 3.0 in mind, and you still managed to completely kill this once beautiful stance. I think both Triburos and MCGamerCZ would agree with my point, but don't just take my word for it. This stance went from being beautiful to being complete and utter garbage.

This is the old video showing it of made by MCGamerCZ: 

 

Edited by ImNephix
Fixed the embeded video
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I only just started using two-handed nikanas after the rework, so no frame of reference, but I absolutely love using the tatsu. Granted my attack speed is over 3 with mods and arcanes along with a CO build. Shreds everything and I don't notice any fluidity issues. But guessing without the speed, the stance could be a lot better. 

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11 hours ago, Praetor350 said:

I only just started using two-handed nikanas after the rework, so no frame of reference, but I absolutely love using the tatsu. Granted my attack speed is over 3 with mods and arcanes along with a CO build. Shreds everything and I don't notice any fluidity issues. But guessing without the speed, the stance could be a lot better. 

I respect and understand your opinion, but me (and the others that used it before) probably feel that it’s too slow. The standing still combo used to be the button mash combo and the pause combo used to be the forward combo and standing still combo put together. I recommend watching the video MCGamerCZ made on it when it was released.

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1 minute ago, Lone_Dude said:

I remember someone made a super-detailed post about it. We got some tiny "#*!% off" change and thats it. Hopefully DE will listen and include the fixes for it in Melee 3.0 final phase.

That's why I tried to bring it up here! But yeah I hope they will revert it for the final melee 3.0 so the Tatsu and the stance will be decent again.

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21 hours ago, ImNephix said:

Dear Digital Extremes, can you PLEASE revert the Wise Razor stance for Two-handed Nikanas? Before the melee rework phase (Old Blood update), the stance felt amazing. Nowadays tho, it feels incredibly slow and hard to use. Before the melee rework this stance was incredible and fun to use but now, it's just annoying. It has killed the serious use of Two-handed Nikanas completely. The only one that's being used right now is the Pennant, and that's only for heavy attack builds. If you could revert it to how it was before the melee changes back in November, that would be lovely. Just make it so that the old pause combo is when moving forward and the current forward combo is the standing still combo. The block combo should also be brought back in my opinion.

The worst part is that the stance was made with melee 3.0 in mind, and you still managed to completely kill this once beautiful stance. I think both Triburos and MCGamerCZ would agree with my point, but don't just take my word for it. This stance went from being beautiful to being complete and utter garbage.

This is the old video showing it of made by MCGamerCZ: https://youtu.be/qPYtN4u7RPo

If Digital Extremes wants to show that they truly listen to the community, then they would absolutely Listen to that little thing, because people show that Tatsu was really fun to use. In conclusion they just removed that little sense of fun we had using this weapon in this gorgeous game. My opinions on this: It is really slow to use, Really uncomfortable to do all the combos (At Least from keyboard and mouse), and lastly i cannot feel the feeling they were aiming for to provide to the players who use this.

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On 2020-04-03 at 4:31 PM, ImNephix said:

The worst part is that the stance was made with melee 3.0 in mind, and you still managed to completely kill this once beautiful stance. I think both Triburos and MCGamerCZ would agree with my point, but don't just take my word for it. This stance went from being beautiful to being complete and utter garbage.

Similar thing actually applies to Tempo Royale, it needed nothing but the change from node tree to individual action keybinds yet its animations got chopped up and glued with animation locks together all wrong (and lost their ability for sprint to speed up the dashes, be keyboard steered and have free movement on some attacks).

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On 2020-04-03 at 10:20 AM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

They absolutely destroyed the flow of the stance.

Correction: they absolutely destroyed the flow of every Stance. 

Contrary to pedantic weaboo opinion, I found the hold-and-release, tapping-with-E-key control scheme to be infinitely smoother and to flow between combos perfectly. I'd rampage for hours, and I felt Warframe had the best melee system of a game I've played.

Old Blood murdered that system, and defecated on its rotting corpse. Movement keys becoming required as part of the combos turned them awkward and miserable to perform; and adding insult to injury, Stances now LOCK OUR MOVEMENT, DESPITE REPEATED CONCERNS IN THE PHASE 1 FEEDBACK THREAD THAT DE SPECIFICALLY NOT DO THAT.

It's abundantly clear they aren't listening to melee players, and they weren't listening in 2019 either. 

DE, when controls are smoother and less of a nightmare to use by equipping no stance at all in the first place onto our melee weapons, you didn't just miss the mark on "upgrading". You saw where it was, and made a conscious decision to actively avoid it by ruining a system that worked for more than five years and we preferred.

On 2020-04-04 at 9:16 AM, Andele3025 said:

its animations got chopped up and glued with animation locks together all wrong

You mean how Malicious Raptor no longer has any of its old moves? Or how Tempo Royale has half the flips, 1/3 the range, and miserably mangled animations? Or perhaps how High Noon primarily just shoots now, instead of having the old and cooler slices interspersed with shooting?

Yeah, 3.0 is a joke.

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5 hours ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

Correction: they absolutely destroyed the flow of every Stance. 

Contrary to pedantic weaboo opinion, I found the hold-and-release, tapping-with-E-key control scheme to be infinitely smoother and to flow between combos perfectly. I'd rampage for hours, and I felt Warframe had the best melee system of a game I've played.

Old Blood murdered that system, and defecated on its rotting corpse. Movement keys becoming required as part of the combos turned them awkward and miserable to perform; and adding insult to injury, Stances now LOCK OUR MOVEMENT, DESPITE REPEATED CONCERNS IN THE PHASE 1 FEEDBACK THREAD THAT DE SPECIFICALLY NOT DO THAT.

It's abundantly clear they aren't listening to melee players, and they weren't listening in 2019 either. 

DE, when controls are smoother and less of a nightmare to use by equipping no stance at all in the first place onto our melee weapons, you didn't just miss the mark on "upgrading". You saw where it was, and made a conscious decision to actively avoid it by ruining a system that worked for more than five years and we preferred.

You mean how Malicious Raptor no longer has any of its old moves? Or how Tempo Royale has half the flips, 1/3 the range, and miserably mangled animations? Or perhaps how High Noon primarily just shoots now, instead of having the old and cooler slices interspersed with shooting?

Yeah, 3.0 is a joke.

i felt all of this but i knew there was no amount of complaining we could do once they changed it....

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Actually, Wise Razor was great for about a week after the big melee rework. Then some genius decided to make all the huge, sweeping, uninterruptable sections of all of the combos the first move. No more cancelling the fast sections halfway through to swap into a different combo before getting animation-locked, you've got to jump across the battlefield the moment you hit the melee button, and stand there just admiring your sword after every swing, and now if you accidentally stop holding one of the buttons, guess what? You're locked into that huge, unnecessary first move again. There's more than one reason people only use heavy attacks on Pennant.

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The melee rework has broken the flow in a lot of weapons, I made a thread about some simple way of fixing things but in general I don't get why some stances have neutral combos which actually fling you forward (which means you need either auto-target on PC or constantly turning to face your enemy), gap closers with 1.5m range at most and moving combos that actually nail you to the ground, the worst part on the last two is how they don't even seem to preserve any momentum which makes them feel very unnatural.

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You want my honest opinion? We should revert all Stances.

They felt natural and fluid when they only consisted of tapping, pausing, holding down the melee key, and using RMB; without any of the BS with movement keys and locked, clunky animations shoved into them. It was like tensing and relaxing muscles while swinging an IRL weapon. It felt organic, it flowed between combos smoothly, and the animations were beautiful and had a rhythm. They gave us momentum that let us move around the battlefield, and they often enhanced our parkour instead of bringing it to a screeching halt.

Melee 3.0 sucks. The "ImPrOvEd" combos suck. The VFX and the bubbling eye cancer that is the "BeTtEr ElEmEnTs" suck. The stats on all weapons being so stupidly high that hammers and heavy blades no longer feel "heavy" and just feel like slower, crappier versions of the small weapons sucks. The lack of override on Exalted Melee weapons so that I don't randomly switch over to a boring, normal gun trying to use their Stance's RMB combos truly, utterly sucks.

I've tried to phrase those sentiments in a longer and more eloquent fashion with screenshot evidence, but the developers clearly aren't listening to melee player's frustrations with 3.0 anyway, so I'm not going to bother. If they didn't once glance at either feedback megathread, no point in beating around the bush waiting for whatever nightmare of even worse crap they pour onto us during Phase 3.

Melee 3.0 quite assuredly still sucks right now. It sucked in February 2019. It still sucked in October 2019, and they didn't even properly restore Sword Alone (looking at you, super-bright sparking flash that happens when drawing a weapon) or manual blocking; despite lying to us that they did restore those sorely-missed mechanics without bells and whistles.

Tomorrow will come, a new year will arrive, humankind might succumb to some deadly mega-bug, and Melee 3.0 will still suck.

I've run out of ways to phrase that I hate Melee 3.0 and that the game is boring now. I've run out of ways to say that I will always prefer the old versions of Tempo Royale, Malicious Raptor, Swirling Tiger, Astral Twilight, Crushing Ruin, and all the other great Stances that were fun before this nightmare. I've run out of ways to snarl about how all the new, impostor moves they jammed in under the stolen names of the Combos I once loved are crap; clumsy, random, spark-vomiting and glowy-bit-trailing garbage without any pattern or buildup. I can't evoke just how much none of the Stance mods properly match their own mod card description any more.

There's no way to properly express how much I hate how every single motion now creates a thousand painful flashes, opaque glowing streaks, and lens-flares that we didn't have under Melee 2.0. 

I hate it. Those three words are the flat truth. DE looked at the fun I had, the beautiful, subtle effects that used to be there; and they made a conscious decision to make it all feel and look awful. Melee is a decoration now. I'm farming Pangolin Prime just to show off the neat wavy sword that I never intend to actually use. 

Revert it all.

Revert the Stances. Tempo Royale will live again, even if I have to write the developers individual letters about how they broke greatsword users' hearts. So much for finally getting War, or my Galatine Prime and Gram Prime.

Revert the VFX. None of it is prettier, and it's an un-differentiated seizure machine of homogenous, bubbling laser lights that obscures both the UI and the cool weapon designs.

Revert the stats by about 50%. Keep them still a bit higher than they were before, but not so ludicrous. When everything is stupid-strong, customization and mods are pointless and half the fun is gone. We asked for viability, not to become Mary Sues.

Revert the random exiting out of Exalted Melees to shoot THAT I NEVER ASKED FOR, BECAUSE IF I WANTED TO SHOOT BORING OLD GUNS I WOULDN'T BE GOING INTO SICKO MODE IN CLOSE COMBAT. Shove that override back in where it belongs, Hysteria should not stop until either I've got no energy left, I turn the ability off, or nothing in the room is alive. That's what made Valkyr fun. The same goes for Baruuk, Excalibur, and Wukong.

Revert finishers, for the love of God. Parazon is clunky, the Mercy system is just an irritating shoehorning in of unskippable cinematics, and as an added "bonus"; that stupid, plastic little arm-knife changed hacking from something that was unobtrusive and started instantaneously into a flashing, slowed-down mess that has constant annoying VFX and we have to wait for it to start. I hate Parazon so much. Screw the Liches, screw re-binding the control to X-key; let me go back up behind an unaware Grineer and hit e to instakill him again. That was stealthy. That simple, one-second motion that immediately impaled or chopped in half or crushed the skull of who we snuck up on felt infinitely better and more ninja-like.

If the Lich system is needed that badly, have them spawn as "Larval" liches after being killed by a truly massive amount of damage, with that being what randomly triggers their "birth" after the previous death. There was zero reason to ruin finishers with unavoidable animations that take much longer than the old finishers did, especially since the Lich system only applies to Grineer.

Melee 3.0 is an honest-to-God trash fire that I'm tired of being "patient" with and "giving a chance". I gave you a chance back in February 2019, when the whole nightmare started, DE. I tried it, tested it, and found it garbage. We waited eight months, and then when October came you failed to completely fix two of the biggest problems and made the rest even worse.

So yeah, honestly, fellow Tenno, my opinion is best summarized as "It's rewind time". This is a hot mess, I despise it all, and Wise Razor becoming lame and clunky is just the tip of the iceberg.

To the Void with Melee 3.0. Revert everything. When the updates worsen the majority of everything that we had, they aren't updates.

 

Edited by Maxim_M_Payne
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2 hours ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

They felt natural and fluid when they only consisted of tapping, pausing, holding down the melee key,

No, the pause and hold combos were as much cancer as hold to heavy was for the whole, it was extremely buggy uncontrollable trash on any setup you didnt precalc setup in sim to just auto trigger either. Not to mention that the node tree transformed into individual keybinds has/had no effect or relation to the point that the individual attack animation parts were chopped apart for no reason and then restitched with animation locks as glue while removing a lot of side depth (partial keyboard steer, sprint to speed up gap closers, movement slowdowns instead of full animation locks, etc).

2 hours ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

Revert the stats by about 50%. Still higher than they were, but not so ludicrous. When everything is stupid-strong, customization and mods are pointless and half the fun is gone. We asked for viability, not to become Mary Sues.

No to this too, everything became viable while weaker than actual top end stuff (well ex op weapons are now just slightly more op than the rest, but the floor and ceiling got a metrick ton closer. Issue is now actually that stance modifiers are a massively bigger factor than the weapon itself. Believe it or not but modding and combo counter changes actually nerfed the good melee more than the base stat changes buffed em (tho IMO, the base crit mod having a 2x multi on heavy should be undone and heavies in general smoothed into the gameloop better to not be disruptive unless doing a initial combo heavy attack spam setup, which should remain a viable option, just not the easily better and lazier spin2win on the few weapons lucky enough to have had guaranteed slash on charge attack stances).

2 hours ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

Revert the random exiting out of Exalted Melees to shoot

You never exit out of extalted to shoot unless you werent in melee mode already unless DE derped something with scarlet spear.

2 hours ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

Revert finishers, for the love of God. Parazon is clunky, the Mercy system is just an irritating forcing of unskippable cinematics, and as an added "bonus"; that stupid, plastic little arm-knife changed hacking from something that was unobtrusive and started instantaneously into a flashing, slowed-down mess that has constant annoying VFX and we have to wait for it to start. I hate Parazon so much. Screw the Liches, screw re-binding the control to X-key; let me go back up behind an unaware Grineer and hit e to instakill him again. That was stealthy. That simple, one-second motion that immediately impaled or chopped in half or crushed the skull of who we snuck up on felt infinitely better and more ninja-like.

Finishers forces on blind/sleep are all still there, as are stealth finishers and even a few finishers in actual stances (tho due to the attack animation butchering and property swaps iirc its only on a few 2-3 stances on weird as hell places e.g. one valkitty claw attack, either the 2nd heavy or a claw lunge, cant remember properly nor test as my screen got mostly ruined by a earthquake recently-ish).

2 hours ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

To the Void with Melee 3.0. Revert everything. When the updates worsen the majority of everything that we had, they aren't updates.

Not everything, the keybinds are good, the stats are good (even if the mk1 equivalent weapons could use some toning down just for progression pace), the air controls are better even if they need the movement part tweaked/have their attack momentum returned, which is the crux: the animations and all the lost properties they had is what should be reverted/returned.

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On 2020-04-06 at 6:08 PM, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

Movement keys becoming required as part of the combos

Uh, tons of stances already had that. Including things like strafe right and left on some stances introduced with the Plains of Eidolon. The pauses in combos also being of alterable length with attack speed wasn't a good look either.

 

While a lot of stances have attacks on combos they probably shouldn't be on, dumping pauses, random bloc inputs, and random directional inputs and the occasional mid combo charge for what we have now is an improvement control wise.

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3 hours ago, Andele3025 said:

No, the pause and hold combos were as much cancer as hold to heavy was for the whole, it was extremely buggy uncontrollable trash on any setup you didnt precalc setup in sim to just auto trigger either. Not to mention that the node tree transformed into individual keybinds has/had no effect or relation to the point that the individual attack animation parts were chopped apart for no reason and then restitched with animation locks as glue while removing a lot of side depth (partial keyboard steer, sprint to speed up gap closers, movement slowdowns instead of full animation locks, etc).

I could seamlessly go between all four combos of Vulpine Mask, Tempo Royale, or any other Stance I enjoyed before, and I happily did. I am sick and tired of both the developers and other players being contrarians that say this feels better and that players like me just mindlessly smashed E 3000 times a second under the old sysem. It doesn't feel better, and we used all the combos with a great degree of variety. It was infinitely less clumsy of a control scheme to me, and it's not my fault some players didn't have the patience for the timing required. If you like actually like the movement-key mess, you have that right, but DE should not force this control scheme onto the players that utterly despise it, especially without giving us option or alternative. I hate it with every fiber of my being and will never get used to it. I've tried. It feels bad and clumsy, and it will always feel bad and clumsy to me. I'm not changing myself based on the developers' poor re-mapping of controls.

The movement-key locked system is like having my fingers taped to knives while walking through tar. The movement keys should not be involved, and I liked the rhythym method and will always prefer it, and fight however long it takes to get it added back in. Muscle memory still tells me to use that system to perform my combos, and I never had issues with it for any of the five years of play I used it prior to the mess of Melee 3.0. You know how many combos have sucessfully connected under our glorious "upgrade" for me? Maybe, being optimistic, a fourth of them. It feels like crap, and it handles like gangrene. I want free movement again, and I want my Stances back to a rhythm of different mixes of E, pauses, and block. It was a key naturally by the movement keys and could be used with them, instead of requring them while not actually taking the player any appreciable distance. I want to go back to making gory music, not be glued in place by a half-assed attempt at making Warframe the akwardly-handling PC ports of Skullgirls or Tekken 7. Warframe isn't a fighting game, and this sucks to use.

3 hours ago, Andele3025 said:

You never exit out of extalted to shoot unless you werent in melee mode already unless DE derped something with scarlet spear.

This has been happening since Buried Debts. If you hit right mouse button, the brilliant consequences of whatever genius decided to remove manual block hit in full force: the game interprets this as you wanting to enter ironsights, and bam, you get pulled out of the Exalted weapons into holding your pistols or rifle, all while still losing energy despite no longer even being in your Exalted weapon mode. It's infuriating. I activated my giant stick or energy claws because I wanted to kill things with them, not because I wanted to stop every time I attempt to use the RMB combos. If I wanted to shoot my stupid guns, I would be shooting my guns. If I have activated giant stick/claw/sword/fist mode, I activated those Exalted abilities because I FIND THEM A THOUSAND TIMES MORE SATISFYING THAN I EVER WILL ANY RANGED WEAPON. I DON'T WANT TO EXIT THEM TO SHOOT OR EVEN MERELY AIM THE GUNS THAT ARE MUCH MORE BORING AND LESS VISCERALLY CATHARTIC TO USE THAN THOSE EXALTEDS. I want to rip and crush things and see them bleed. This shouldn't have to be explained.

3 hours ago, Andele3025 said:

No to this too, everything became viable while weaker than actual top end stuff (well ex op weapons are now just slightly more op than the rest, but the floor and ceiling got a metrick ton closer. Issue is now actually that stance modifiers are a massively bigger factor than the weapon itself. Believe it or not but modding and combo counter changes actually nerfed the good melee more than the base stat changes buffed em (tho IMO, the base crit mod having a 2x multi on heavy should be undone and heavies in general smoothed into the gameloop better to not be disruptive unless doing a initial combo heavy attack spam setup, which should remain a viable option, just not the easily better and lazier spin2win on the few weapons lucky enough to have had guaranteed slash on charge attack stances).

They went greatly overboard on quite a few of them. I'm not saying they change them completely back to the old stats, I'm saying that they make it less over-the-top and boring. I enjoyed the mod system, and Destreza Prime having over 70% critical chance with True Steel installed is dull as tears, as is it suddenly having several thousand damage even without any +Puncture mods installed on it. I enjoyed customizing my weapons, and the over-buffing ruined that. They made everything so blasted high in its crits, status chance, and damage that none of the old "heavy melees" feel like anything special anymore. Two-handed Nikanas are now just Slow Nikana with One Stance that 3.0 Butchered and Made Ugly Flailing Without Any Tempo. Heavy Blades are now The Fat and Slower Cousins of Dual Zoren and Swords That Hit Maybe 15% Harder So Why Do You Even Bother? Hammers have become Staves That Have A Weight Problem and a Large Head.

3 hours ago, Andele3025 said:

even if they need the movement part tweaked/have their attack momentum returned

That I agree with.

3 hours ago, Andele3025 said:

the air controls are better

That, I do not. If air combos are going to work, they need to slow the effect that gravity has on us. Without the suspension effect of the old horizontal lunges, I fall before I get the rest of the hits in. Plus, Warframe draws from sources like anime, but it's never flat-out copied them. A greatsword should not attack mid-air like a katana does, or we're all just Naruto background characters instead of Tenno.

 

Edited by Maxim_M_Payne
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To put this short, my main beef is with DE. Give us a choice in our control scheme, and put the Combos back into the same flow and set of moves that they were before. Wise Razor and Tempo Royale in particular look pathetic and out-of-order now.

Edited by Maxim_M_Payne
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54 minutes ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

I could seamlessly go between all four combos of Vulpine Mask, Tempo Royale, or any other Stance I enjoyed before, and I happily did. I am sick and tired of both the developers and other players being contrarians that say this feels better and that players like me just mindlessly smashed E 3000 times a second under the old sysem. It doesn't feel better, and we used all the combos with a great degree of variety. It was infinitely less clumsy of a control scheme to me, and it's not my fault some players didn't have the patience for the timing required. If you like actually like the movement-key mess, you have that right, but DE should not force this control scheme onto the players that utterly despise it, especially without giving us option or alternative. I hate it with every fiber of my being and will never get used to it. I've tried. It feels bad and clumsy, and it will always feel bad and clumsy to me. I'm not changing myself based on the developers' poor re-mapping of controls.

No, it objectively didnt work because, like hold to heavy attack, it was tied to multiple factors including fps, attack speed and "lag"/games tick calculation variance even when you are the host. There was no skill in pause and hold combos, just going into sim, getting the right attack speed mods (or if you didnt wanna bother with that, set up a macro) and then mashing lmb just like with regular combos only without the actual block for recovery cancel options since block was the highest priority modifier. This actually works even if its a workaround how keydown and keyup are measured by the game and will spring up again as a flaw down the line if DE ever implements such a thing again.

54 minutes ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

The movement-key locked system is like having my fingers taped to knives while walking through tar. The movement keys should not be involved

Except they always were, in fact wasd is less involved now in the new system than ever because soft keyboard steer (the thing with slide effects how they curve into the keyboard direction when you use 2 directional inputs instead of just go in one direct line as hard animation locked animations do) got removed from so many forward locked attack chains only w is a modifier and the god damn static combos animation lock you forward.

54 minutes ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

You know how many combos have sucessfully connected under our glorious "upgrade" for me? Maybe, being optimistic, a fourth of them.

L2P, thats not a mechanical flaw/nerf unlike the change of animations getting butchered with animation locks, trimming causing attacks to have insane acceleration or be a decelleration attack for no reason, removal of sprint increasing the distance of gap closers, etc.

54 minutes ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

 I want free movement again,

Yes, all animation locks except on the designated static attacks need to be removed, but the tismspastic mash or macro console keybinds should never return (unless DE gives players the ability to bind attacks and you decide to cripple yourself with the badly implemented coding of em).

54 minutes ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

while not actually taking the player any appreciable distance. 

 

This is a issue of animation locks and has nothing to do with change from node tree to individual keybinds.

54 minutes ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

This has been happening since Buried Debts. If you hit right mouse button, the brilliant consequences of whatever genius decided to remove manual block hit in full force:the game interprets this as you wanting to enter ironsights, and bam, you get pulled out of the Exalted weapons into holding your pistols or rifle, all while still losing energy despite no longer even being in your Exalted weapon mode. It's infuriating. I activated my giant stick or energy claws because I wanted to kill things with them, not because I wanted to stop every time I attempt to use the RMB combos. If I wanted to shoot my stupid guns, I would be shooting my guns. If I have activated giant stick/claw/sword/fist mode, I activated those Exalted abilities because I FIND THEM A THOUSAND TIMES MORE SATISFYING THAN I EVER WILL ANY RANGED WEAPON. I DON'T WANT TO EXIT THEM TO SHOOT OR EVEN MERELY AIM THE GUNS THAT ARE MUCH MORE BORING AND LESS VISCERALLY CATHARTIC TO USE THAN THOSE EXALTEDS. I want to rip and crush things and see them bleed. This shouldn't have to be explained.

L2P again, if you want to use melee, you should be in melee mode, quick attack mode is for the gun people.

54 minutes ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

They went greatly overboard on quite a few of them. I'm not saying they change them completely back to the old stats, I'm saying that they make it less over-the-top and boring. I enjoyed the mod system, and Destreza Prime having over 70% critical chance with True Steel installed is dull as tears,

It had over 500% crit chance with blood rush before, the middle parts and badly modded setups dont matter for balance, only floor and ceiling and the change of stats made a massive chunk of objectively massively inferior options actually close instead of having a 8k dps vs 59k dps difference despite a few mr higher.

54 minutes ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

as is it suddenly having several thousand damage even without any +Puncture mods installed on it. I enjoyed customizing my weapons, and the over-buffing ruined that.

Why would the destraza need any puncture mods, its not a slash nor 85%+ physical weighted weapon thus elementals are better. Also you do understand that pretty much every weapon deals less damage compared to old system once you hit 2.5 combo on the old one and massively less if you had any combo duration.

54 minutes ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

They made everything so blasted high in its crits, status chance, and damage that none of the old "heavy melees" feel like anything special anymore.

No. I mean DE is/was power creeping but the final stats are much lower. a easy instant 600%+ crit chance vs the now full build and stat stick helios decon 350~390% crit at best.pre arcanes or crit buff abilities (with a optimized build).

54 minutes ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

That, I do not. If air combos are going to work, they need to slow the effect that gravity has on us. Without the suspension effect of the old horizontal lunges, I fall before I get the rest of the hits in. Plus, Warframe draws from sources like anime, but it's never flat-out copied them. A greatsword should not attack mid-air like a katana does, or we're all just Naruto background characters instead of Tenno.

Hold RMB while attacking in the air (and maybe back, depends on weapon as some kept a tiny bit of their foward momentum but also the decceleration thus dropping you down faster if you dont do the "static" air attacks which due to animation locked forward momentum still move you forward for some forsaken reason). Biggest issue with air attacks is that one cant tweak the slam angle detection.

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Just use one of the other two-handed nikana stances... Oh, wait...

The stance was practically brand new before the melee 3.0 update. Why did DE feel the need to change it in melee 3.0? Wasn't Tatsu and this stance designed with melee 3.0 in mind to begin with? It was fun when it was released! Why did it need changing?

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On 2020-04-07 at 3:19 AM, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

@ImNephix Here’s the video embedded on the forums for proper exposure to what Wise Razor once was. I agree, it would be fantastic to see this stance come back to its former glory, stance multipliers and fluidity altogether: 

 

Thanks, I forgot to embed it properly'

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