Avoid Arbi

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 40 Minuten schrieb (XB1)Furious Kaiser:

Band aids gotta come off at some point. Better to pull it off, learn what there is to learn, heal, and move on, then it is to let it sit and fester.

Alright. If it helps in this situation *deep breath*

I don't like corrupted mods because of their stat penalty. And because of this, I have a hard  time getting grips with "high level" or "pro builds", because most of the time, those builds make use of those mods and also have 1 or 2 stats going way down following  that.

And thos "dump stats" are another issue that I tend to put together with the other because both are directly related to each other.

To me, it never feels good to run a build with a stat below default, I'm always uncomfortble when thinkking about that. To me, it feels like the whole thing has some big weakspotbecause  of this, a weakspot that'll blow up in my face at some point.

I thought of using those mods when I can compensate for the downside, yet that would also mean sacrificing one or more mod slots to solve a problem, one mod has caused.

Like with Nova. To get max DR with her 1, you have to sacrifice range by using Narrow minded, which kills her 3. And I don't wanna loose her 3, neither do I wanna loose her 1 or 4.

 

Now that you know about my core issue, you may or may not come out with arguments why I still should try those mods and builds and why I'm worried over nothing.

Edited April 3, 2020 by (PS4)KyomaSatomi

[NekroArts]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

Now that you know about my core issue, you may or may not come out with arguments why I still should try those mods and builds and why I'm worried over nothing.

You know the common phrases in this community "play however I/you want to play" and "player's do not dictate the others player's play-style"? Here's one that silently follows it - Whatever way you choose to play, you also accept the cons it carries. To accept those cons, you not only know how to live with it, you also accept there are some things you cannot reach.

[(XBOX)Furious Kaiser]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

Alright. If it helps in this situation *deep breath*

I don't like corrupted mods because of their stat penalty. And because of this, I have a hard  time getting grips with "high leel" or "pro builds", because most of the time, those builds make use of those mods and also have 1 or 2 stats going way down following  that.

And thos "dump stats" are another issue that I tend to put together with the other because both are directly related to each other.

To me, it never feels good to run a build with a stat below default, I'm always uncomfortble when thinkking about that. To me, it feels like the whole thing has some big weakspotbecause  of this, a weakspot that'll blow up in my face at some point.

I thought of using those mods when I can compensate for the downside, yet that would also mean sacrificing one or more mod slots to solve a problem, one mod has caused.

Like with Nova. To get max DR with her 1, you have to sacrifice range by using Narrow minded, which kills her 3. And I don't wanna loose her 3, neither do I wanna loose her 1 or 4.

 

Now that you know about my core issue, you may or may not come out with arguments why I still should try those mods and builds and why I'm worried over nothing.

Great! Progress! I retract my earlier statement about that being my last post. Onwards!

Corrupted mods allow people to have more focused builds, sacrificing one aspect to boost another. If you don't want to reduce a stat because it goes against what you want to do with your build, then that is fine. You will have to find alternatives that work towards what you are building, such as arcanes, weapon choice, pet capabilities, etc.

Case in point with Nova, when could opt out of using Narrow Minded, you will have a reduced duration for all of her abilities, and thus her 4 will have a shorter range (albeit, it will still be quite huge in comparison to most other aoe abilities in the game) You can make that up by being more mobile (maybe with help with her 3 since its range isn't being reduced now?) Her 1's damage reduction (which is what anybody uses it for these days) scales with duration, as you get a flat 5% DR per particle and you get more particles with more duration. Checking my build and removing a maxed Narrow Minded removed 6 particles (from 16 my current slowva build has), so that is a reduction of 30% DR. Are you comfortable getting around with that? That is up to you. With my build, I don't really have a use for her 3 as I get around just fine without it. I use parkour and operator dash to get to places quickly, if I need to. But that is just me looking at ALL the tools at my disposal, and not just at mods. But you are not me, that is understandable.

You will have to ask yourself, what is the point of your build? With the state of the game today, staying alive and being able to deal a lot of damage / kill quickly are both at the top of the charts for what you should build for to tackle high end missions (sorties, arbies, railjack, eidolons, ESO). The beauty of this game is that there are MANY ways to go about this.

Circling back around to the original point on corrupted mods, they are a means to an end, but not the end-all be-all. And remember that phrase "jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none" does apply in warframe. Certain frames, when focused on a portion of what they have to offer, can push limits a heck of a lot better then mod setups that focus another aspect of the kit, or setups that favor a more broad spectrum of skills & abilities, as high end enemies do require you to focus a weakness to take them down quickly and efficiently. That is just how the game is. We have a ton of tools to mess around with, and plenty of different scenarios to test them in. Not all kits and setups work in all scenarios. Some shine really well in some, and not in others. And that is fine. Just have to acquire the tools you do need, and know when to switch them up to fit the situation at hand.

[(XBOX)Furious Kaiser]

Here is a little story:

I like to run with kubrows set as my companion. I perfer a tanky, melee oriented playstyle and they, with the right mod setup, complement it very well. My sahasa, Scylla, has been with me in countless missions for many years, and I don't see myself shelving her anytime soon. Since the introduction of kavats, there has been a huge drop off in popularity of kubrows thanks to the crit buff that kavats can give. I am fully aware that my chosen playstyle gimps my top end damage output (and have been rightfully criticized by many for) as I cannot reach the level of crits that the kavats provide while running with a kubrow. I make up for that by modding my melee for combo building and hitting elemental weaknesses. My damage output, even tho it isn't the absolute MAX, is still enough to get through all the stuff that I enjoy doing.

That said, I also do understand that my favorite way to play is not the best at a number of things. That setup is terrible at defenses and excavations if there is no defense support (Frost, Gara, etc) So I am forced to change up my kit to see the mission through sometimes. And I have zero problems with running something that isn't my preferred way to play. If I have to run something like, for example, my Frost where I generally sit back and shoot from within my bubble, I have found, through plenty of trial and error, that kubrows aren't the best companion for that type of playstyle, as they like to rush outside the bubble and end up getting the smack down as I am not meleeing much to keep their health topped off. So I run with a MOA companion with my Frost, as it tends to sit back and shoot from inside the bubble. A sentinal could work just as well in this situation, but I prefer to be able to revive my MOA in case it goes down. Another example is eidolon fights. Kubrows are very much useless in those fights, and not a whole lot of companions bring anything useful to them. It is about the only time I will ever bring a kavat (adarza) along, as it gives a party crit buff, which is about the only thing useful out of all the companions in eidolon fights, in my experience. 

Again, this is all stuff learned from a lot of trial and error, and learning from my mistakes along the way.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb (XB1)Furious Kaiser:

You will have to ask yourself, what is the point of your build?

 

vor 1 Stunde schrieb (XB1)Furious Kaiser:

Certain frames, when focused on a portion of what they have to offer, can push limits a heck of a lot better then mod setups that focus another aspect of the kit, or setups that favor a more broad spectrum of skills & abilities,

My goal with my builds is to make use of as much of a frame's kit as possible because otherwise, it feels like I'd waste a tool that might come in handy at some point.

Like with Nova. You and others might give up on her 3 in favor of other things, but I don't wanna  throw away a possibly useful mobility tool.

I also want a "one for all build", a build where I don't have to shift mods around or switch to a different tab every time I go into a different mission. I know that you can't really have one build for ALL occasions, but I would like to have one for all occasions I would use a certain frame.

[(NSW)FlameDivinity]

5 hours ago, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

You are the 2nd to say this.

Because it's true.

[(NSW)FlameDivinity]

5 hours ago, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

 guess it is overthinking. Tho I do have this fear of failure and putting in all the work for pretty much nothing.

Yeah, it's totally overthinking. I remember the first time I tried it. It was easy. Nothing different from other missions - you just can't die and have to kill the big, glowing, red, low health drones. They're just high leveled missions with drones you have to kill b4 you can damage enemies. If you can do a sortie and see big, glowing objects, then you can do arbies. Tanky frames such as Rhino, Wukong, and Nezha are best. Airborne Titania and Limbo + Frost are godly as well. Any tanky frame and decent weapon will work. You got this!

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb (XB1)Furious Kaiser:

I like to run with kubrows set as my companion. I perfer a tanky, melee oriented playstyle and they, with the right mod setup, complement it very well. 

I have a Kubrow (not the same breed as yours) and a Helminth Charger. Tho I've never cared that much about what they bring in in terms of synergy with my frame.

Generally, I don't really know that much about synergies between frames and equipment. I just pick a weapon I think is good and mod according to which stats are higher from the start, then I run with it.

I've seen a number of videos where others talk about synergies, but barely anything did stick in the end. And it feels like this is going over my head anyways (speaking like the terrible casual I am).

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb (NSW)FlameDivinity:

Yeah, it's totally overthinking. I remember the first time I tried it. It was easy. Nothing different from other missions - you just can't die and have to kill the big, glowing, red, low health drones. They're just high leveled missions with drones you have to kill b4 you can damage enemies. If you can do a sortie and see big, glowing objects, then you can do arbies. Tanky frames such as Rhino, Wukong, and Nezha are best. Airborne Titania and Limbo + Frost are godly as well. Any tanky frame and decent weapon will work. You got this!

Thanks. I'm always surprised when I get encouragement after acting like a d***.

Tanky frames like the ones you mentioned are what I usually prefer. With Limbo or Titania, I'd always worry about survivability, especially with the way I go about modding my frames.

In the end, it mostly that I don't feel up for this and the ways others point me at to change this clash with what I feel comfortable with doing with my frames.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb (XB1)Furious Kaiser:

Case in point with Nova, when could opt out of using Narrow Minded, you will have a reduced duration for all of her abilities, and thus her 4 will have a shorter range (albeit, it will still be quite huge in comparison to most other aoe abilities in the game) You can make that up by being more mobile (maybe with help with her 3 since its range isn't being reduced now?) Her 1's damage reduction (which is what anybody uses it for these days) scales with duration, as you get a flat 5% DR per particle and you get more particles with more duration. Checking my build and removing a maxed Narrow Minded removed 6 particles (from 16 my current slowva build has), so that is a reduction of 30% DR. Are you comfortable getting around with that? That is up to you. With my build, I don't really have a use for her 3 as I get around just fine without it. I use parkour and operator dash to get to places quickly, if I need to. But that is just me looking at ALL the tools at my disposal, and not just at mods. But you are not me, that is understandable.

I might try and use Narrow Minded at some point, but not a fully ranked one, only as far as I can compensate with Stretch. I've heard before that people substitute her 3 with Void Dash or put on the augment to her 3, but to me that's not the main point. To me, it's more that you destroy an ability that's otherwise perfectly fine and rather useful and that's not how I roll. In my opinion, if a frame has 4 abilities, then those 4 - or at least 3 of them - should be used, not just 1 or 2. There will be a lot of people who will come and point out how certain abilities are pretty much useless and that my view is skewed, yet, it is my opinion that if the abilities are there, there should be a way to make use of them.

[(NSW)FlameDivinity]

3 hours ago, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

Thanks. I'm always surprised when I get encouragement after acting like a d***.

Tanky frames like the ones you mentioned are what I usually prefer. With Limbo or Titania, I'd always worry about survivability, especially with the way I go about modding my frames.

In the end, it mostly that I don't feel up for this and the ways others point me at to change this clash with what I feel comfortable with doing with my frames.

Stay in the rift as Limbo, and stay in the air with your dust and thorns active at Titania. Just put aviator on Titania, or adaptation if you bought it from the market. Aerodyamic works for her as well. Adaptation works wonders for every frame, but those are both arby rewords, so you'll have to have completed one already or purchased from the market. Frost will work great, however, if you're doing it solo.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 30 Minuten schrieb (NSW)FlameDivinity:

Stay in the rift as Limbo, and stay in the air with your dust and thorns active at Titania. Just put aviator on Titania, or adaptation if you bought it from the market. Aerodyamic works for her as well. Adaptation works wonders for every frame, but those are both arby rewords, so you'll have to have completed one already or purchased from the market. Frost will work great, however, if you're doing it solo.

I bought Adaptation from th market because of my Wukong. Never saw any usage for Aviator or Aerodynamic; those were rather niche mods for me, not suiting for how I play.

I haven't used either Limbo or Titania much, even though I do like Limbo (yet, I wouldn't run him with low range)

About Frost, I've somewhat fallen off using him as his bubbles weren't as durable for lvl 30+ defense as I had wished for (I don't use Blind Rage on him tho). And doing something like that solo doesn't really cross my mind. To me, that's begging for failure.

Edited April 4, 2020 by (PS4)KyomaSatomi

[(NSW)FlameDivinity]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

I bought Adaptation from th market because of my Wukong. Never saw any usage for Aviator or Aerodynamic; those were rather niche mods for me, not suiting for how I play.

I haven't used either Limbo or Titania much, even though I do like Limbo (yet, I wouldn't run him with low range)

About Frost, I've somewhat fallen off using him as his bubbles weren't as durable for lvl 30+ defense as I had wished for (I don't use Blind Rage on him tho). And doing something like that solo doesn't really cross my mind. To me, that's begging for failure.

You'll be fine with Wukong, Rhino, and Nezha for everything the game has to offer (bar SO and ESO). So if you use Wukong a lot, go right ahead. I use him and Nezha for arbies myself.

[(NSW)FlameDivinity]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

I bought Adaptation from th market because of my Wukong. Never saw any usage for Aviator or Aerodynamic; those were rather niche mods for me, not suiting for how I play.

I haven't used either Limbo or Titania much, even though I do like Limbo (yet, I wouldn't run him with low range)

About Frost, I've somewhat fallen off using him as his bubbles weren't as durable for lvl 30+ defense as I had wished for (I don't use Blind Rage on him tho). And doing something like that solo doesn't really cross my mind. To me, that's begging for failure.

Aerodynamic and Aviator are for Titania, specifically her 4, which you'll always want to be in.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb (NSW)FlameDivinity:

You'll be fine with Wukong, Rhino, and Nezha for everything the game has to offer (bar SO and ESO). So if you use Wukong a lot, go right ahead. I use him and Nezha for arbies myself.

I like Wukong for the same reason I like Rhino: he is pretty tanky and has a pretty well rounded kit where pretty much all abilities are useful.

[(NSW)FlameDivinity]

4 hours ago, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

I like Wukong for the same reason I like Rhino: he is pretty tanky and has a pretty well rounded kit where pretty much all abilities are useful.

Then Nezha should be your favorite frame.

Come, join us. It's not a trap if you buy the deluxe skin.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 46 Minuten schrieb (NSW)FlameDivinity:

Then Nezha should be your favorite frame.

Come, join us. It's not a trap if you buy the deluxe skin.

As long as I can get a good build without dumping any stats, I'm interested.

 

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

I checked earlier and there was an Arbi defense. I was entertaining the thought of trying it, but in the end, I couldn't bring myself to do it.

[(NSW)FlameDivinity]

On 2020-04-04 at 2:38 PM, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

As long as I can get a good build without dumping any stats, I'm interested.

 

Nezha is one of the few frames that can run perfectly without too much stat investment. And no, you won't have to dump any stats. A little power strength and mods that take advantage of his energy and health orb drops (i.e Equilibrium, Health Conversion) and mods that help with energy (ex. Hunter Adrenaline, Rage) work best with him. Umbral Intensify + Umbral Vitality will give you all the health and power strength you need, and his 4 + his 2 synergize as scaling damage while of course being CC and defense reduction on all enemies hit by his 2, even status immune ones. Oh, his augment Reaping Chakram is so beneficial it's practically necessary. You can get it from Steel Meridian and Cephalon Suda, or spend 10p on warframe.market/trade chat. If you have Arcane Energize, you can go with only 100% efficiency, or if you don't like to spam his 4 and 2 every other second like me, you don't need Energize if you have Equilibrium + Hunter Adrenaline/Rage. And if you rarely use abilities, then I'd recommend just one of those, though both are definitely greatly beneficial. You don't need duration, as both all his abilities which use it have more than enough, so you can leave it at 100%, range is nice for his 4, but it already has high range, therefore it isn't necessary, so you can leave it at 100% if you want. Efficiency is preference, but I personally like it some, so 30% is works for me. And power strength is unnecessary, though some people like seeing how high they can get their 3 to, so do what suits you, though I'd recommend Umbral Intensify + Vitality as being more than enough. 

Nezha is one of those frames that does so much and does it so well, you don't need raw stats. Therefore, you can invest in the synergy he provides, which mainly means infinite energy and health, of course with 90% damage reduction, debuff removing, CC, damage boosing, speed boosting, and scaling damage (his 4 + 2 kill everything). Also, tons of heat procs, which is amazing after heat's rework. He's amazing, and his deluxe skin is godly. Best thing is, he's easy to obtain, so I definitely recommend trying him out.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb (NSW)FlameDivinity:

Therefore, you can invest in the synergy he provides,

I've always had a some trouble with synergies. I barely know about them and most of the time when someone talks about them, most of it doesn't stick.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb (NSW)FlameDivinity:

I definitely recommend trying him out.

I have him already, tho haven't busted him out in quite a while.

[(NSW)FlameDivinity]

1 hour ago, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

I've always had a some trouble with synergies. I barely know about them and most of the time when someone talks about them, most of it doesn't stick.

His 3 only has 90% damage reduction, which allows him to pick up health and energy obs. When his 2 hits an enemy, the enemy gains a 100% chance to drop a health orb and a 35% chance to drop an energy orb, even if his 2 isn't the attack that kills. This allows great benefit from Equilibrium, Hunter Adrenaline/Rage, and Health Conversion, while keeping 90% damage reduction. Impaling enemies with his 4 while using his 2 will create 1 more ring per enemy hit. And with his augment Reaping Chakram, each enemy hit will double each ring's power and enemies will gain a 25% chance to drop 2 health orbs. And with the enemy defense reduction it gives, it allows for scaling damage. It sounds complicated, but it's really simple and pretty much works all by itself.

TLDR: Have said mods equipped -> use his 4 -> use his 2 on enemies impaled by his 4 -> profit.

Edited April 8, 2020 by (NSW)FlameDivinity

[CoefficientOfCool]

so this got revived huh...

OP: You thinking too hard bruh. AND while you are thinking too hard, you are also imposing strict limitations on yourself. Everyone plays this game differently and tbh that is awesome when you're starting out and figuring out all the systems but once you get to a place where you've put time, energy, and *gasp* money into the game, not taking full advantage of a frames kit because of arbitrary rules you've set for yourself isnt something we are going to be able to help you with. Holy run-on sentence batman.

 

I hate to say it but the wiki is gonna help you immensely with understanding the synergy thing. Who am I kidding, I love telling people to check the wiki. 

 

Also, I feel it is worth noting that you should be absolutely killing SS right now for at least a r5 energize, r5 guardian, r5 fury, and many others I dont have time to look up and list special use cases for at the moment.

 

in regards to your actual problem of wanting all stats to be positive, if that's what makes you feel comfortable playing then do that man. no one here wants you to change your playstyle to be MoRe EfFiCiEnT if that means you are having less fun. 

 

since it also seems like you want a positive example of how to use and take advantage of "dump stats," I will give a quick one.

 

I run a lot of arbitration defense missions. I love Dadberon (running both phoenix renewal + smite infusion augments) in these missions if I load in pub. I can buff everyone with rad dmg, and they can die once every 90 seconds with no penalty. I run a negative efficiency on this build bc DE has given us the tools to counteract negative efficiency with arcane energize, syndicate weapons, and even a new mod, 'energizing shot' iirc. The tools are already in the game to make up for the dumping of some stats but without understanding the deeper synergies and reasons underlying why some people recommend building that way, it will seem wasteful and non-profitable at first glance. Oberon also does great with all positive stats as well and I use an all positive stat build for eidos with him. 

Figuring all this out yourself will be more rewarding though so take all this with a grain of salt. sorry for long post, got outta hand dinnit?; p

[OneYenShort]

On 2020-04-03 at 7:59 PM, (PS4)KyomaSatomi said:

My goal with my builds is to make use of as much of a frame's kit as possible because otherwise, it feels like I'd waste a tool that might come in handy at some point.

That is a fine goal to have, and as you have been made aware, that goes towards the whole "jack of all trades, master of none", which the game really seems to be geared towards modding as needed towards your focus.

I would give a suggestion though with the kits.  Recognize what an ability strength is for.  It doesn't sound like you do PvP.  I know I don't touch it. And that is what confused me for a time about some abilities.  Take Valk's harpoon (that is the WF that has it right?).  I mean baring captures (and even then) it just seems worthless, esp with the shere number of mobs.  Then 2 years into the game it finally dawned on me.   That ability would be great in PvP compared to PvE.  (I fully expect others to come to the ability rescue.  You'll just be wasting your time, as I don't care.  I don't use it. Make a different thread if you want to defend it, but as stated, I don't care.)

I get the idea of failure and fear. I really do.  My mother was, I'll call it gently verbally abusive.  As in she was never vulgar or directly abusive ever, and would typically sacrifice to make sure I got what I wanted.  BUT... in my teenage years, she ended up with a catch phrase that utterly destroyed my self confidence over time.  "If you are going to do a half ass job, don't bother doing it at all."  So consequently I stopped doing a lot of chores, other than mowing the grass.  I never had comments tossed at me about the mowing so I kept with it.  Took me years to realize what happened, and 2 decades after that I still lack confidence in myself.   (Thankfully a trait I got from both of my parents is being stubborn. So that helps me succeed in work.)

Just take baby steps.  Sure they may seem insignificant, but take them.  It adds up over time.  Been there, facing that.

And FYI, most of the mods I always see players saying use?  I don't have them, but I can solo the first Eidolon now.  Go at your pace, but take the steps.  You may find if you can start to make growth here, you can transfer that same confidence into outside the game as well.

 

 

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 18 Stunden schrieb CoefficientOfCool:

taking full advantage of a frames kit

That's what I want to do: taking advantage of all of a frame's abilities, or at least 3 of them. Only using 2 or less abilities or modding in a way that an ability I wanna use becomes unsuable feels way too limiting for me.

 

vor 18 Stunden schrieb CoefficientOfCool:

you want a positive example of how to use and take advantage of "dump stats,"

I generally don't regard stats that go down as 'positive', especially not efficiency.

 

vor 19 Stunden schrieb CoefficientOfCool:

I run a lot of arbitration defense missions. I love Dadberon (running both phoenix renewal + smite infusion augments) in these missions if I load in pub. I can buff everyone with rad dmg, and they can die once every 90 seconds with no penalty. I run a negative efficiency on this build bc DE has given us the tools to counteract negative efficiency with arcane energize, syndicate weapons, and even a new mod, 'energizing shot' iirc. The tools are already in the game to make up for the dumping of some stats but without understanding the deeper synergies and reasons underlying why some people recommend building that way, it will seem wasteful and non-profitable at first glance. Oberon also does great with all positive stats as well and I use an all positive stat build for eidos with him. 

I could never run a build with negative efficiency, especially not when I make use of channeled abilities.

Almost all of my builds use the combo Streamline + Flow to give big energy pool + low energy cost, which lets me maintain abilities with little more outside energy pickups (I also make use of a rank 1 Arcane Energize) - which means I also don't have to sit around energy discs for 30 seconds. In my mind, I don't need any complicated workarounds for a problem I simply avoid.

But the thing I agree on is that I don't understand the synergies - most of the time when someone talks about those, barely anything sticks with me. And yes, dumping stats really comes off as wasteful and with having low duration or efficiency when using a channeled ability, it looks downright detrimental.