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[DE]Rebecca

Dev Workshop: Healing Defendable Targets

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2 minutes ago, Orokin said:

Reminder that Limbo still trivializes any kind of defense missions and with these changes he will be used even more

You don't need to heal if Limbo makes the defense objective invulnerable by freezing all the enemies.

Maybe. What Scarlet Spear showed me is that Limbo has his own flaw where he has to recast Cataclysm thus leaving the defense open for a brief moment. That brief moment can result in the defense objective taking a good chunk of damage. If the wave last longer than that of a modded Limbo you have to leave the defense objective vulnerable.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Tromeo said:

 

But its not. A good initiative would have been to open a workshop before the event start.

That why the part of “consult to do it” but since Couldn’t accomplish this part (to not reveal new content and reserve a surprise) ok “consult to undo it

Edited by (PS4)f0l1v31r4

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Thanks for making excavation unplayable sounds like an amazing update 🙂

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Just now, NekroArts said:

Maybe. What Scarlet Spear showed me is that Limbo has his own flaw where he has to recast Cataclysm thus leaving the defense open for a brief moment. That brief moment can result in the defense objective taking a good chunk of damage. If the wave last longer than that of a modded Limbo you have to leave the defense objective vulnerable.

simple solution, get 2 limbo

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Posted (edited)

Thank you,
for killing off excavation long runs. Instead of fixing things that have been broken for years like rivens, kuva or scaling rewards. Your approach is swing the ban hammer as per usual.

The overall quality of the game has been going down since the Lich update. You ignore the majority of feedback and keep focusing on bringing in new features in a game that has no direction. Keep over promising things and ignoring your loyal player base and see how much revenue you loose this year. 

When Scott explained the reasoning for nerfing Itzal Blink he said that it was required to give us more options with archwing as Itzal had superior mobility making all other archwings inferior. When you nerfed catchmoon you explained it in a similar fashion stating that it was the most used secondary invalidating other ''in slot'' weapons. How can you not see that protective dash gives us the freedom to choose any frame and go to any mission to play and have fun and be fine. It gives us options.. back to 2015 frost bubble spam i guess, great design DE, solid logic.

Sad to see what is becoming of this game and how disconnected you as developers are from your core audience.

Edited by FerdinantFreez
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99% of this is awesome, one issue though...

Why a 500 healing cap? We just recently (finally) got changes to Excavators to scale their health, capping healing abilities at 500 is basically the same issue with Excavators not scaling. At some level, healing abilities will become useless at healing targets. They don't need their full effect, Trinity doesn't need to instantly heal targets to full, but they really should stay as percent heals (over time, making all of the heal effects over time is fine).

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Just now, NekroArts said:

Maybe. What Scarlet Spear showed me is that Limbo has his own flaw where he has to recast Cataclysm thus leaving the defense open for a brief moment. That brief moment can result in the defense objective taking a good chunk of damage. If the wave last longer than that of a modded Limbo you have to leave the defense objective vulnerable.

Solution 2 limbos and staggering.

 

also I don't think any heal should be a flat amount but rather a % of some kind.  With things getting scaling health, but also scaling damage 500 won't mean anything after awhile or even from the start.

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1 minute ago, NekroArts said:

Maybe. What Scarlet Spear showed me is that Limbo has his own flaw where he has to recast Cataclysm thus leaving the defense open for a brief moment. That brief moment can result in the defense objective taking a good chunk of damage. If the wave last longer than that of a modded Limbo you have to leave the defense objective vulnerable.

That's what his 3 is for. As long as you keep stasis going and don't kill anything enemies can't ever move or come in from outside his cata.

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4 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

Maybe. What Scarlet Spear showed me is that Limbo has his own flaw where he has to recast Cataclysm thus leaving the defense open for a brief moment. That brief moment can result in the defense objective taking a good chunk of damage. If the wave last longer than that of a modded Limbo you have to leave the defense objective vulnerable.

That's why you Rift Surge/Banish everything before you collapse the Cataclysm, so everything dangerous is in the Rift while your allies and defended objects are out of it for those couple seconds between Cataclysms.  There's no gap if you maximize your use of his full kit.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

Maybe. What Scarlet Spear showed me is that Limbo has his own flaw where he has to recast Cataclysm thus leaving the defense open for a brief moment. That brief moment can result in the defense objective taking a good chunk of damage. If the wave last longer than that of a modded Limbo you have to leave the defense objective vulnerable.

If you use 3, enemies will still be in the rift when you take down cataclysm.

e: 2 people beat me to it

Edited by Orokin
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Ah yes, further increasing the fact that Zenurik is the only viable focus tree. 500 flat healing is hot garbage where it matters. Echoing the thoughts of many others on the thread, keep a degree of percentage-based healing on Protective Dash to incentivize its usage. I'd love to see numbers comparing the actual usage of Vazarin, especially compared to Zenurik. With this change, I'd bet the number of Vazarin users is going to go down even more.

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Posted (edited)

throwing spaghetti at the wall:

  • maybe disable shield/hp healing altogether, full heal targets per 5 waves* and scale armor/shield/hp per rotation
  • potentially an x to repair (but not res) or something like omni tool to repair, similar to the disruption conduit failsafe or hp/cell batteries for excav
    static targets and operative targets would be handled differently
  • something similar to a demolyst could be implemented to make the possibility of OHKO on defense a threat that healing/repairs can't manage
  • siphon warframe shields like a hijack defense target, but to actually restore shields (instead of moving target towards extraction)
Edited by SorinJr
clarification, additional spaghetti
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How would this affect Eidolon hunting? Right now, Trinity is used there to keep lures alive, and this change would make Tridolon PUGs hell.

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What's the point in using the Vazarin school now?

Vazarin 1 had effectively infinite insta-revives but on a 3-4 minute supply cycle, But that was nerfed to 8 revives with vazarin 2.0 for the entire mission with no way to reset the counter.

Vazarin was redeemed in being able to heal defense targets, but being only able to do 100 health per second for targets basically kills the point to use Vazarin anymore.

The idea of using the heal dash on allies is kinda pointless because there are many many other ways to heal allies.

What makes me want to use Vazarin over an effectively permanent 5 energy/second+innate Arcane Energize?

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Not sure why Titanias passive isn't being included but other than Vazrin taking an obvious hit looks like low key buffs across the board.:thumbup:

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2 minutes ago, LordPantaloonsthe3rd said:

simple solution, get 2 limbo

 

2 minutes ago, yarl5000 said:

Solution 2 limbos and staggering.

Though this doesn't convince me that he will be pick above all else. Under the assumption that the squad comp is made up of a dps, two buffers, and Limbo you'll have to drop one of the first 3 thus dropping the squads supposedly optimal performance.

 

6 minutes ago, zakaryx said:

That's what his 3 is for. As long as you keep stasis going and don't kill anything enemies can't ever move or come in from outside his cata.

 

3 minutes ago, ArcusVeles said:

That's why you Rift Surge/Banish everything before you collapse the Cataclysm, so everything dangerous is in the Rift while your allies and defended objects are out of it for those couple seconds between Cataclysms.  There's no gap if you maximize your use of his full kit.

 

1 minute ago, Orokin said:

If you use 3, enemies will still be in the rift when you take down cataclysm.

Infested, definitely; Grineer, maybe; Corpus, very doubtful.

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These changes look pretty okay for everything except Vazarin's Protective Dash.

Of course Protective Dash is totally overpowered on live. Right now a Vazarin player can keep an objective alive indefinitely against enemies of any level, and that has to change.

But going from "total invulnerability" to "absolutely nothing" and "heal 60% of max health" to "heal 500 health total" is a brutal nerf. A nerf this large will kill the entire Vazarin Focus school, and Focus as a system already struggles with providing incentives to use anything but Zenurik.

Maybe Protective Dash should give objectives something around 75%-90% damage reduction and heal 5%-10% max health, instead?

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Posted (edited)

All the heal values should be a percentage, not a flat value, because they need to scale with the level. Garuda's ability makes sense for sortie/arbi defense targets, at least. This is basically going to kill the vazarin focus tree since the only other reason people use it is pub affinity farming.

This further highlights the problem that most focus trees aren't utilized by the majority of players, and will only exacerbate it.

Edited by JasonKN
not a question, oops
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while you at it, make these healing abilities heal our sentinals/moas and pets too.

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IF all come to worse new Meta will be a slowva with a bunch of Valkyrs yeet the sentients away with ripline

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1 minute ago, JasonKN said:

This is basically going to kill the vazarin focus tree since the only other reason people use it is pub affinity farming.

As an avid Vazarin player since its introduction, I highly doubt it.

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50 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Heal for 500 over 5 seconds, can’t stack

51 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Heal for 100 per 1.5 sec

That's nice, however the problem will likely raise whenever players face a Sortie 3 defense objective with health values in the orders of tens of thousands, as well as enemies that can output the same order of damage in seconds.

Any plans for scaling the heal effects based on the mission level?

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Sorry but this is ridiculous. Do you actually play your game? When you reach the point of needing to heal defensive targets, enemies are already at a really high level and their damage is WAY, WAAYY higher than 500 hp. 

Seriously, play your own game. Put any lvl 150 enemy against any defensive target and see how fast the HP drops. Healing 500 hp over 5 seconds does absolutely nothing. So I don't understand what is this trying to acomplish. Yeah, you get 50% damage reduction with some abilities but even with that DR enemies will hit defense targets way faster than what we can heal them.

This is pointless.

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