Dev Workshop: Healing Defendable Targets

[GingaNinjah]

DE those Damage Reduction changes say good bye to this dedicated player. Players play missions for extended times not for rewards alone but to challenge themselves.

Edit: How nice, my post got magically nerfed. The one thing thats happening all over warframe

 

[OwlingFrame]

This is probably best overall change that could have come out of Scarlet Spear fiasco, and people actively manufacture dumbest reasons to complain.

 

I've never been more disappointed in this community.

[Xenophil]

Hey I have reported that Vazarin Protective Dash and Sancti Magistar can now heal an OpLink for some reason, fix it

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, Xenophil said:

Hey I have reported that Vazarin Protective Dash and Sancti Magistar can now heal an OpLink for some reason, fix it

Weird, my vazarin dash wasn't last night; though I instinctively tried a few times. Is the hitbox not on the devices? Had that happen last time Dash was messed with for defense targets.

[(XBOX)WolfKingLeo]

6 minutes ago, Urlan said:

Weird, my vazarin dash wasn't last night; though I instinctively tried a few times. Is the hitbox not on the devices? Had that happen last time Dash was messed with for defense targets.

its because it never healed the oplink. I think it was the relay support healing it

[Xenophil]

53 minutes ago, (XB1)WolfKingLeo said:

its because it never healed the oplink. I think it was the relay support healing it

 

1 hour ago, Urlan said:

Weird, my vazarin dash wasn't last night; though I instinctively tried a few times. Is the hitbox not on the devices? Had that happen last time Dash was messed with for defense targets.

That's because defense targets (except excavators) must not take damage for 3 seconds to be able to be healed by Vazarin

[(XBOX)WolfKingLeo]

2 hours ago, Xenophil said:

 

That's because defense targets (except excavators) must not take damage for 3 seconds to be able to be healed by Vazarin

 i tried to heal the oplink few times without letting it take damage, didn't heal soo.... yeah

 

[Sapphirya]

"We want to increase build diversity." - DE
*forces players into only using Zenurik by making all the other focus skills terrible* - also DE

As someone who mains Vazarin, this change will basically force me out of the focus school since using it to heal defense objectives was basically the primary use for it (since healing allies can be done far more efficiently with far better tools than attempting to dash a sluggish operator through a crazy person parkour'ing past at mach 5). As countless other people have said, a flat 500 HP heal is basically useless on a scaling objective that can have hundreds of thousands of HP, and completely gutting the invulnerability effect instead of replacing it with something else seems like spite at this point.

At this point, what else does Vazarin have? I can use it to top up my sentinel, and that's about it. Might as well just switch to Zenurik with everyone else at this point.

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, (XB1)WolfKingLeo said:

its because it never healed the oplink. I think it was the relay support healing it

That makes sense, thanks.

[csaszar]

Dear DE!

You stated you want to hear the opinion of your playerbse.

Here you can here it, Please dont disregard it.

Do not kill Vazarin and nerf anything to uselessness. Believe us - we are playing the game - that diversity comes from options, different approaches. Forcing and idiotic meta that is 2-3 frames is far from that.

You fear of trivializing theese game modes? For god sake Vazarin doesnt trivialize it. Healing the object doesnt trivialize it. Any level past the mid startchart will be still a challenge.

Or you want to force the players to remain only 1-2 rounds? WHY?

 

On the other hand arbitrations the meta you want to force doesnt working. No Limbo there becaise of the drones. So whats your recommended oplaysatyle for arbi def missions? Play 2 rounds then wait 50 min for a new arbi and pray it wont be defense?

Creating diversity is a good thing, having more options is nice. Please do not take that away. Instead make the working abilities broader range, give more options just dont brake something thats good.

More frame abilities? YES GOOD IDEA! Make the new ones and the existing ones useless? BAD IDEA!

Thanks for listening.

[Sickerton]

13 hours ago, OwlingFrame said:

This is probably best overall change that could have come out of Scarlet Spear fiasco, and people actively manufacture dumbest reasons to complain.

 

I've never been more disappointed in this community.

I legitimately don't know how anyone who knows how to crunch numbers could be excited by this change, it's a smokescreen to hide several rather worrying nerfs. Abilities which could not heal objectives being able to now is nothing when said healing is capped to 500 HP per five seconds -- or in other words 100 HP a second -- with no stacking and no scaling. Objectives have several thousand health at minimum; At levels where 500 HP would seem useful the Objective will never be in any danger from enemy fire, and at levels where there is an actual threat of destruction 500 hp will not even noticeably alter an objective's health bar. This will turn the idea of healing objectives into a new player trap; Making it seem as if they're helping at early levels enough to want to heavily invest in it, and then having all their investments utterly fail them when they realize those numbers going up before were almost entirely the objective's innate regen and they were actually accomplishing nothing.

When one of the most useful regen options in a comprehensive list of those options in this game is Hildryn's 3, simply because it kinda got to keep scaling, then something is wrong. The Venari nerf was so disgusting because it was completely unnecessary to do that to such an insignificant amount of heals, and the solution should not be to "Level" things by making every ability in the same situation equally applicable and useless.

[Ikusias]

1 hour ago, Sickerton said:

I legitimately don't know how anyone who knows how to crunch numbers could be excited by this change, it's a smokescreen to hide several rather worrying nerfs. Abilities which could not heal objectives being able to now is nothing when said healing is capped to 500 HP per five seconds -- or in other words 100 HP a second -- with no stacking and no scaling. Objectives have several thousand health at minimum; At levels where 500 HP would seem useful the Objective will never be in any danger from enemy fire, and at levels where there is an actual threat of destruction 500 hp will not even noticeably alter an objective's health bar. This will turn the idea of healing objectives into a new player trap; Making it seem as if they're helping at early levels enough to want to heavily invest in it, and then having all their investments utterly fail them when they realize those numbers going up before were almost entirely the objective's innate regen and they were actually accomplishing nothing.

When one of the most useful regen options in a comprehensive list of those options in this game is Hildryn's 3, simply because it kinda got to keep scaling, then something is wrong. The Venari nerf was so disgusting because it was completely unnecessary to do that to such an insignificant amount of heals, and the solution should not be to "Level" things by making every ability in the same situation equally applicable and useless.

All numbers and caps shown by DE so far are wrong for both low and high level play, they should have gone with health percentages instead

[Fairwing]

Suggested changes for vazarin make it a percentage based heal.  Not taking into account scaling is a problem you know you will need to fix at some point anyway.  I mostly use vazarin heals on defection targets which frequently bug out.

[megamino]

When this will be shipped? When the number will be confirmed? When?

Is there any discussion among DE about this? Please give us an update, you guys should have enough time just to decide whether you want to ship this or not, it's nearly too many hotfixes that don't include this changes.

If you are listening, you have to fix the event not the mechanic.... Fix the event. That is the root cause of these problem, the way you guys saying "fixing venari FEATURE to heal defense objective" and then giving this means something to me (at least)

[feralknights]

Can we get an update on what's going on with this?

(Please don't go nerf Vazarin into the dirt, I use it for solo play in higher content and it gives me the ability to play whatever 'frame I want but still be able to keep the target healed.)

[ShirakawaNaoya]

Vazarin's interaction between frames is fine. Between objectives though, it would be good if it is % based due to scaling mainly because of taking the endless mission into consideration. It may look OP on paper at its current form but in practice, I do believe it is not viable to stay in operator mode in high level content for longer than I don't know... 5 secs? aside from Eidolon-like hunt. If anything, schools like Unairu and Naramon need buffs instead. Not sure about Madurai.

[SneakyErvin]

23 hours ago, csaszar said:

On the other hand arbitrations the meta you want to force doesnt working. No Limbo there becaise of the drones. So whats your recommended oplaysatyle for arbi def missions? Play 2 rounds then wait 50 min for a new arbi and pray it wont be defense?

Uhm drones dont lock Limbo out of his use, which is to banish the defense target in arbis. And for the arbis with static objectives i.e excav (which this whole thread is about) you have Frost and Gara. 

We also dont know if the caps or changes to vazarin will have any impact on living objectives, since this is all about static objectives i.e not real allies.

[denis111222]

The Gara 90% reduction in excavations made it really fun to speedrun and coordinate quick swaps with team members.

Me and my girl have been doing it for a while, having a lot of fun with the 90% damage reduction from Gara's 2 ability and leaving while the excavator has 30 seconds left
I don't want to be forced to stay for longer, I love leaving it knowing that it won't die, please don't cap it at 50%

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

I think every single idea de has right now is crap id like it if they stopped touching things that arnt broken like vazarin they make everything wurse to the point i cant stand de any more there ideas have no intelegance behind them 

vazarin is a HEALING FOCUS TREE that shouldnt be touched its basic job is to heal the team and objectives and now de wants to nurf the basic job they do 

But de will never learn nor will they lissen to good ideas from there fans abd partners that only want the best for the game

[MolagGrunda]

Vazarin being nerfed isn't the issue here, its that every other focus school has to compete with zenurik. More specifically energizing dash, honestly letting us mix and match focus schools (maybe as a reward for high end content) is the only way to fix the S#&$ hole that is focus right now. And no, you can't just remove it, energizing dash is to core to not only the meta but newer warframe designs, the reworked version of ember would be nearly useless without energizing dash.

Other than that I do think percentage is a better route to go with for healing because it flat numbers will be either broken or useless depending on where you use them.

[Dageraad]

Hi!! First of all ... I Love really the work all of you do in Warframe!!

I was Thinking... oplinks... heal or not to heal.... and if you want heal it, scaling is needed in the most warframes abilities (and later for all defence objetives).... or why dont do an item (Little Duck may sell us the BP or use the Scuad Heal Restore) to heal the oplink and this item will the unique "thing" to heal the oplink....

It is just a thought...

Take Care!!

[TehGrief]

On 2020-04-10 at 10:29 AM, Sapphirya said:

"We want to increase build diversity." - DE
*forces players into only using Zenurik by making all the other focus skills terrible* - also DE

As someone who mains Vazarin, this change will basically force me out of the focus school since using it to heal defense objectives was basically the primary use for it (since healing allies can be done far more efficiently with far better tools than attempting to dash a sluggish operator through a crazy person parkour'ing past at mach 5). As countless other people have said, a flat 500 HP heal is basically useless on a scaling objective that can have hundreds of thousands of HP, and completely gutting the invulnerability effect instead of replacing it with something else seems like spite at this point.

At this point, what else does Vazarin have? I can use it to top up my sentinel, and that's about it. Might as well just switch to Zenurik with everyone else at this point.

I will be severely disappointed if this change occurs.

I have to agree, being able to defend objectives was the primary purpose for me to upgrade and play Vazarin. It was so useful and felt good to be able to flash in when the Kuva siphon was at low health and protect it.

Outside of the limited instant revives, I don't know if there will be enough in Vazarin to stay.

What a shame.

[(XBOX)ShmittyG]

On 2020-04-03 at 2:29 PM, Lakyus said:

Interesting. Hoping for a nerf to the defense targets' survivability overall, so it does make a difference to use these abilities.

Limbo's augment was not listed?

Why would you HOPE for a nerf? These changes are very useful and will be used frequently by those of us who run solo/endless. There is no need for a survivability nerf as the damage scaling of enemies is crazy, and can lead to defense points being killed in one shot. 

[Abradon96]

This is a really bad idea.

 

The focus schools are completely unbalanced, vazarin only works for defend objetives. Now, with this changes u will going to make everybody use Zenurik again practically removing it from the game.

The ideo that more objetives can defend and heal objetives is good, but u can't nerf warframes like korra, gara, etc. it just make that they lose the only thing that they are good and stop being used

[Uhkretor]

On 2020-04-03 at 11:32 PM, MunsuLight said:

you are just killing it for people that are doing super long missions

... I'm just going to throw it out there that you're not supposed to do super long missions...

 

Maybe now I'll start using Mending Strike to complement Gara's already effective defense capabilities.