My great dislike for Wukong + bramma combos

[0_The_F00l]

Hello,

I am usually not one to suggest changes to how people play and enjoy their game and advise nerfs just cause it inconveniences me a little.

But when it starts affecting my gameplay ,enjoyment and gives me literal headaches i will decide to talk about it.

Preface:

I do not hate the specific weapon or the specific frame, its only how they work together that is causing me to write this.

Issue:

Any time i run a  mission there is a near 60% chance that i will run into a Wukong with a bramma that just runs around and let its celestial twin shoot stuff.

The player in most cases does nothing, he moves towards the objective with his head in the clouds and maybe stops long enough to use zenurik dash to do it again.

He needs no effort , is nearly invincible , does consistent damage.

He covers my screen with blasts over blasts so i cannot even aim properly.

This is quite literally the use of aim bots to play the game for you , its is even worse than the umbra exploits with the kohm in my opinion.

I am surprised DE hasn't done anything.

Suggestion:

1) Let the Celestial twin be able to damage itself with explosives.

Or

2) Make all audio and visual effects of the twin be muted

 

These are my only suggestions , i do not need a nerf to the actual mechanics/stats of celestial twin or the bramma ,

Happy to discuss or debate on this.

 

I fully expect @DeMonkey to get here , interested to see his reaction to the current celestial twin and bramma meta (is he for or against it?).

 

Edit:

Added another alternative to the nerf.

Edited April 4, 2020 by 0_The_F00l
Added audio visual muting as alternate change

[AnatharsWrath]

i cant say ive seen a wukong player actually "play" wukong aside from maybe 1 time (was running around with the iron pole or w/e its called meleeing stuff)

most the time i just see the celestial twin doing all the work and then they just cloud form through the level.

cant say i blame them though. after you've done the missions for the 100,000th time you sometimes want to get them done ASAP. 

[DrivaMain]

I am seeing a lot of wukong users in my pub runs over the last few months. It seems like he offers a lot of useful tools for “Let’s get this over with” crowd : fast movement, self heal, decent damage, and semi AFK ability.
 

There is solo and recruit chat if you want to avoid these players. You can’t dictate people what to pick in an online video game unless the developer smash it with a nerf hammer so hard that it made that choice irrelevant.

[(PSN)A-0Titan]

You could always run solo

the twin isn’t even that efficient with bramma anyway. 
also i cant see the real problem you seem to be announcing here, 

does consistent damage

blast screen so you can’t see anything 

needs no effort, player does nothing 

you will find these problems with other warframes and weapons why the hate on twin clone

 

[MPonder]

Never saw one.

[ZeroX4]

On 2020-04-04 at 8:35 AM, 0_The_F00l said:

Hello,

I am usually not one to suggest changes to how people play and enjoy their game and advise nerfs just cause it inconveniences me a little.

But when it starts affecting my gameplay ,enjoyment and gives me literal headaches i will decide to talk about it.

Preface:

I do not hate the specific weapon or the specific frame, its only how they work together that is causing me to write this.

Issue:

Any time i run a  mission there is a near 60% chance that i will run into a Wukong with a bramma that just runs around and let its celestial twin shoot stuff.

The player in most cases does nothing, he moves towards the objective with his head in the clouds and maybe stops long enough to use zenurik dash to do it again.

He needs no effort , is nearly invincible , does consistent damage.

He covers my screen with blasts over blasts so i cannot even aim properly.

This is quite literally the use of aim bots to play the game for you , its is even worse than the umbra exploits with the kohm in my opinion.

I am surprised DE hasn't done anything.

Suggestion:

Let the Celestial twin be able to damage itself with explosives.

 

That is my only suggestion , i do not need a nerf to the actual mechanics/stats of celestial twin or the bramma ,

Happy to discuss or debate on this.

 

I fully expect @DeMonkey to get here , interested to see his reaction to the current celestial twin and bramma meta (is he for or against it?).

what is ur problem?
i am wukong player i run with brama on it
but i also run wukong with many other weapons and i run brama with many other frames

so plz explain if i go with rhino so i dont get stagger and spam brama it still will be bad?
or if i go with wukong + shedu it will still be bad since im semi afk?

i just ask cause  i dont understand which is ur problem?
weapon? frame? or semi afk?
cause if all 3 i could go with equinox + shedu and we would have pretty much same scenario
so then why only wukong if equinox can do same thing? or excalibur umbra?
why brama if shedu can spam screen in a same way?

Edited October 26, 2021 by ZeroX4

[k05h]

Wukong + Bramma is the new Miragulor. Juslt like Miragulor (Mirage Synoid Simulor) back in the day one players choice of convenience is the other players annoyance. 

Can we do much about it? I doubt it because we also have lazy push 4 to win Mesa and boring push 1 and optionall 4 to win Saryn. 

[0_The_F00l]

1 hour ago, DrivaMain said:

There is solo and recruit chat if you want to avoid these players. You can’t dictate people what to pick in an online video game unless the developer smash it with a nerf hammer so hard that it made that choice irrelevant.

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)B80Oi1 said:

You could always run solo
 

Yes, yes, i am aware , Recruit and Solo is always an option which i do take advantage of but even in recruit i get the same results.

Please refer my first sentence , i am not dictating what people should be playing , i am making a request to how the combo works together.

Nowhere in my entire post so i tell people to stop playing it that way.

1 hour ago, (PS4)B80Oi1 said:

the twin isn’t even that efficient with bramma anyway. 
also i cant see the real problem you seem to be announcing here, 

does consistent damage

blast screen so you can’t see anything 

needs no effort, player does nothing 

you will find these problems with other warframes and weapons why the hate on twin clone

 

Don't particularly care if it is efficient or not only saying what i see - which is a lot of wukongs with brammas,

I hate on the twin clone + bramma cause no other frame actually can do this without some active involvement from the player.

I would be happy to call out any similar frames if it kept cropping up in my screen repeatedly.

17 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

what is ur problem?
i am wukong player i run with brama on it
but i also run wukong with many other weapons and i run brama with many other frames

My problem is the wukong + bramma specifically , i did say this in my post ,

did you take the effort to read it or did you leave it to your clone again?

17 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

so plz explain if i go with rhino so i dont get stagger and spam brama it still will be bad?
or if i go with wukong + shedu it will still be bad since im semi afk?

You are free to do either of those things , i dont care about the individual wukong or the individual bramma loadouts.

though i suspect the shedu will also damage the twin if my suggestion is implemented.

17 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

i just ask cause  i dont understand which is ur problem?
weapon? frame? or semi afk?

its all three together. as i already mentioned.

17 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

cause if all 3 i could go with equinox + shedu and we would have pretty much same scenarion
so then why only wukong if equinox can do same thing? or excalibur umbra?
why brama if shedu can spam screen in a same way?

No you could not , equinox even with duality has a fixed timer and you cant heal the clone or turn to smoke while the clone does the damage,

I do not see any equinox running around with a bramma in most of the matches i join.

 

Please READ the suggestion. Self damage for all Explosive weapons. Shedu included.

4 minutes ago, k05h said:

Wukong + Bramma is the new Miragulor. Juslt like Miragulor (Mirage Synoid Simulor) back in the day one players choice of convenience is the other players annoyance. 

Can we do much about it? I doubt it because we also have lazy push 4 to win Mesa and boring push 1 and optionall 4 to win Saryn. 

Yeah pretty much this.

We can suggest alternatives,

i really dont want the weapon itself or the frame to be significantly nerfed.

Edited April 4, 2020 by 0_The_F00l

[Yamazuki]

It only does well against low level enemies, Celestial Twin is actually pretty dumb (the bad kind of dumb) with Bramma, and I'm unsure why you would complain about Bramma but wouldn't complain about Acceltra, as he does better with that. If you're being out-killed by the twin, that's more of a you issue. Celestial Twin isn't able to do missions in a reasonable amount of time, and can't even defend an Interception point on its own unless the enemies die in a single hit, that's how dumb it is.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Yamazuki

[0_The_F00l]

2 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

It only does well against low level enemies, Celestial Twin is actually pretty dumb (the bad kind of dumb) with Bramma, and I'm unsure why you would complain about Bramma but wouldn't complain about Acceltra, as he does better with that. If you're being out-killed by the twin, that's more of a you issue. Celestial Twin isn't able to do missions in a reasonable amount of time, and can't even defend an Interception point on its own unless the enemies die in a single hit, that's how dumb it is.

actually yeah , acceltra too , atleast the acceltras blast is not that large and blinding , the sound is also tolerable.

My suggestion encompasses all explosives.

[JohnKable]

3 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

actually yeah , acceltra too , atleast the acceltras blast is not that large and blinding , the sound is also tolerable.

My suggestion encompasses all explosives.

The efficiency of clones, umbra etc is not that great. even with explosive weapons.
But DEFINITELY the visuals of their effects should be toned down quite a bit, moreso on explosive weapons.

[George_PPS]

Other players’ setup too good you want them nerfed? What’re your best loadouts? Let’s nerf them? Why don’t you just play solo. I have no problem others killing enemies for me sometimes so I can relax. If you prefer your play style, solo is always an option. 

[0_The_F00l]

19 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

Other players’ setup too good you want them nerfed? What’re your best loadouts? Let’s nerf them? Why don’t you just play solo. I have no problem others killing enemies for me sometimes so I can relax. If you prefer your play style, solo is always an option. 

As i said , i dont care about the "goodness" of other players setups ,

Notice how i have not even mentioned the damage difference or how "they did more kills than me" i would have talked about saryn and mesa if i had a problem with that,

i am perfectly happy with a lower damage number on my end of mission screen - i stopped caring about it a long time ago.

Nor have i made a suggestion to nerf the actual stats of the ability or the weapon to make it unusable (like was done to the SS ).

 

My problem is the literal headache i get by all the consistent blasts i get on my screen even when all effects are toned down to lowest.

I want people to stop using an auto aiming bot in my vicinity , you can do so away from me .

And since i have enough sense and experience that asking players to change their behavior is an exercise in futility, i am suggesting a mechanic change to very specific interactions to make it less desirable to do so.

 

I also have a personal dislike for any AFK ability that plays the game for you.

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

57 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I want people to stop using an auto aiming bot in my vicinity , you can do so away from me .

You want to go with pre-made squads or play solo. Only way to do it, can't control what other players bring in missions (e.g., randomly meeting another player using Saryn, or another random player also using Harrow for Eidolon fights). Jus the luck of the draw. 

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

1 hour ago, 0_The_F00l said:

As i said , i dont care about the "goodness" of other players setups ,

Notice how i have not even mentioned the damage difference or how "they did more kills than me" i would have talked about saryn and mesa if i had a problem with that,

i am perfectly happy with a lower damage number on my end of mission screen - i stopped caring about it a long time ago.

Nor have i made a suggestion to nerf the actual stats of the ability or the weapon to make it unusable (like was done to the SS ).

 

My problem is the literal headache i get by all the consistent blasts i get on my screen even when all effects are toned down to lowest.

I want people to stop using an auto aiming bot in my vicinity , you can do so away from me .

And since i have enough sense and experience that asking players to change their behavior is an exercise in futility, i am suggesting a mechanic change to very specific interactions to make it less desirable to do so.

 

I also have a personal dislike for any AFK ability that plays the game for you.

I genuinely don't mind AFK abilities because I don't want any frame to be nerfed, and also because I have a bad wrist that causes pain in my fingers, hand, arm, elbow and shoulder if I play for too long so having frames like Octavia and Khora, frames that allow me to play in a very relaxed state (not giving my arm significant pain) makes me glad. 

[0_The_F00l]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

I genuinely don't mind AFK abilities because I don't want any frame to be nerfed, and also because I have a bad wrist that causes pain in my fingers, hand, arm, elbow and shoulder if I play for too long so having frames like Octavia and Khora, frames that allow me to play in a very relaxed state (not giving my arm significant pain) makes me glad. 

You do what suits you As long as your preference does not cause me pain mate. 

Notice how I have not mentioned every single AFK frame in the game. 

[0_The_F00l]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

You want to go with pre-made squads or play solo. Only way to do it, can't control what other players bring in missions (e.g., randomly meeting another player using Saryn, or another random player also using Harrow for Eidolon fights). Jus the luck of the draw. 

I already mentioned this right after the sentence you quoted. 

Hence the actual suggestion that may have an effect on it. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

it's fine to dislike certain setups used by other people, but it's unlikely DE would even address this problem. you're the only person I've seen complaining about this. 

one way to adjust itcould be to make the Bramma have a much slower rate of fire when used by a Clone.. if it can't fire fast, it can't wipe the map and give you a headache. 

[CatboyPrincess]

I understand where you're coming from.

If they were using the Kuva Ayanga, it could be even worse, too.

I would communicate your issue as this: Kuva Bramma + Wukong Clone = Epilepsy and/or Sensory Overstimulation.

Personally, if I could change the game to help you, I would reduce visual effects and screen shake from clone attacks. Short of that, I would tone down the effects on the Kuva Bramma (and Kuva Ayanga, for that matter) in general.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Gwyndolin-chan

[0_The_F00l]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

it's fine to dislike certain setups used by other people, but it's unlikely DE would even address this problem. you're the only person I've seen complaining about this. 

one way to adjust itcould be to make the Bramma have a much slower rate of fire when used by a Clone.. if it can't fire fast, it can't wipe the map and give you a headache. 

Not sure it would remove the issue , but less of an incentive to use the combo for sure.

2 minutes ago, Gwyndolin-chan said:

I understand where you're coming from.

If they were using the Kuva Ayanga, it could be even worse, too.

I would communicate your issue as this: Kuva Bramma + Wukong Clone = Epilepsy and/or Sensory Overstimulation.

Personally, if I could change the game to help you, I would reduce visual effects and screen shake from clone attacks.

That's one way to describe it.

[kevoisvevo]

6 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Not sure it would remove the issue , but less of an incentive to use the combo for sure.

That's one way to describe it.

There it's just a visual and audio issue then. Case closed.

[0_The_F00l]

Just now, kevoisvevo said:

There it's just a visual and audio issue then. Case closed.

considering i still get headaches and still have a personal dislike for AFK enabling abilities not sure how its closed.

[kevoisvevo]

1 minute ago, 0_The_F00l said:

considering i still get headaches and still have a personal dislike for AFK enabling abilities not sure how its closed.

If they tone down the explosion effects, screen shake and audio which I highly agree with, then most of your problems will be solved. The rest are just personal biases.

[844448]

What if celestial twin also being susceptible to self stagger from explosive weapons? They fire too close? It's back flip time so there are down times between close quarter shots instead of explosive barrage nonstop from the clone

[0_The_F00l]

14 minutes ago, kevoisvevo said:

If they tone down the explosion effects, screen shake and audio which I highly agree with, then most of your problems will be solved. The rest are just personal biases.

Oh ,your suggestion is to make the visuals & sounds from explosions of clones be muted,

I am OK with that, your earlier statement wasn't clear on what you actually meant.

11 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

I run Mirage Prime with Kuva Bramma. Should we not let Mirage clones shoot as well then? Coz that creates even more visual noise.

Mirage gets staggered (and not outright killed like it would be before) , less incentive to use any explosive if it is shot too close,

And if you will actually read my post , my suggestion is to have them add self damage to the clone not remove the ability to use the weapon.

You seem to be missing the part where i said that i don't have a problem with the frame itself or the weapon itself.

13 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

As for clone autoing for player what's stopping a player from making auto click E setup with a tanky frame and just using that instead? Should we nerf Inaros then as well coz he is also basically invincible?

nothing is stopping them except for their ammo pool and possibility of being banned for using macros,

but it is the player that is responsible for the aiming and i can make a request for him to aim away from me.

I cant ask a bot to do the same it is outside the control of the player (other than to focus on an enemy very far away) - but again as already mentioned making requests of other players to play differently is an exercise in futility.

Whether he does it or not is on the individual.

Not sure on the relevance of Inaros coming in the picture as he does not have means to create Aimbots with infinite ammo that benefit from your mods.

23 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said:

What I see is I don't like this therefore everyone who actually likes using it must be the problem.

I don't like the visual and audio noise a Octavia makes on the map with all the waves and pulsing lights and rollers. Should we then remove whole Octavia kit just coz of that? Also a frame you can afk with as well.

I cant change what you see , they are your eyes after all.

Octavia can quite literally be muted - you are just throwing other "easy to play " frames with no relevance to the topic at hand.

You are also building up a strawman as my nerf is very specific and does not change the stats of the ability or the weapon itself.

Did i in my entire post mention removing any part of the actual kit? no only a very specific interaction with weapons that have AOE.

25 minutes ago, 844448 said:

What if celestial twin also being susceptible to self stagger from explosive weapons? They fire too close? It's back flip time so there are down times between close quarter shots instead of explosive barrage nonstop from the clone

Its a Bot , i dont think it cares much for QoL and downtime while its master is invincible in a cloud and also healing it.

Needs a means to bring said person down from the clouds is what i think.