My great dislike for Wukong + bramma combos

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

Not a problem imo.   

You see a wukong with a bramma in 2/3 missions?  Really?   I done maybe 20-30 missions last night and never had this once.  Saw plenty bramma's ofc, but it's a fun weapon.

Let players play what they want. I don't support nerfs.  Plus it's only a problem for a few minutes. 

I was doing hydron last night with a mirage using acceltra with a bright energy colour.  Was honestly hilarious, couldn't see squat and so much camera shake it was like being in the centre of an earthquake.  Didn't bother me a bit and the mirage was obviously having a ball so all's good. 

[0_The_F00l]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

Not a problem imo.   

You see a wukong with a bramma in 2/3 missions?  Really?   I done maybe 20-30 missions last night and never had this once.  Saw plenty bramma's ofc, but it's a fun weapon.

Let players play what they want. I don't support nerfs.  Plus it's only a problem for a few minutes. 

I was doing hydron last night with a mirage using acceltra with a bright energy colour.  Was honestly hilarious, couldn't see squat and so much camera shake it was like being in the centre of an earthquake.  Didn't bother me a bit and the mirage was obviously having a ball so all's good. 

i do see a wukong in 6/10 missions with a bramma.

As long as you are not affected you can continue playing however you want.

Me on the other hand would likely get a headache,

Regular players at least have a reason to be carefully aim and not blast things two feet from you , not so with wukong.

The AFKing is more of a personal dislike , but since there are multiple things that are affecting me i have mentioned them.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I'm sorry I just can't anymore with these super explosive weapons getting on the nerves of people in a game with Saryn, Volt, and now Mirage just completely destroying maps to the tune of 3k in kills while the other frames god forbid have any kills exceeding 100 with anything that might actually allow them to get one clump of enemies they had to run to before they are totally melted, fried, and exploded by a player sitting in the center of the map.

Edited April 4, 2020 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[0_The_F00l]

Just now, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

I'm sorry I just can't anymore with these super explosive weapons getting on the nerves of people in a game with Saryn, Volt, and now Mirage just completely destroying maps to the tune of 3k in kills while the other frames god forbid have any kills exceeding 100 with anything might actually allow them to get one clump of enemies they had to run to before they are totally melted, fried, and exploded by a player sitting in the center of the map.

Please read my post , do you see anywhere me complaining about the kill count?

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

3 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Please read my post , do you see anywhere me complaining about the kill count?

I really don't care what you had to say or reading a bulletin points and a essay you poured your soul into...it always starts off with a title and after the fact others jump in with trying to nerf weapon X...or the set up regardless of your well thought out post. My response isn't for you..it's for anyone else reading through this thread trying to get something removed in a game that really has jumped the shark on why bothering to do so.

Edited April 4, 2020 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[0_The_F00l]

3 hours ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

I really don't care what you had to say or reading a bulletin points and a essay you poured your soul into...it always starts off with a title and after the fact others jump in with trying to nerf weapon X...or the set up regardless of your well thought out post. My response isn't for you..it's for anyone else reading through this thread.

This is my thread, any comments you make unless directed at someone reflect on me.

If you have a point to make that is not relevant here please make it in your own post, i do not see you adding any actual value to this thread otherwise.

Edited April 4, 2020 by 0_The_F00l

[DeMonkey]

6 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I fully expect @DeMonkey to get here , interested to see his reaction to the current celestial twin and bramma meta (is he for or against it?).

Against, I dislike anything that encourages or allows for AFK gameplay. Poor game design.

[(PSN)A-0Titan]

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Against, I dislike anything that encourages or allows for AFK gameplay. Poor game design.

There is a mechanism in place with the twin clone of wukong for those who don’t know, if you stand idle with him, the clone will stop functioning even if you are surrounded by enemies, thus, one has to be active for the wukong clone to be active. 
wukong is the go to frame you want when you’re tired of a bit too much finger work. But it doesn’t encourages AFK gameplay.

[0_The_F00l]

56 minutes ago, (PS4)B80Oi1 said:

There is a mechanism in place with the twin clone of wukong for those who don’t know, if you stand idle with him, the clone will stop functioning even if you are surrounded by enemies, thus, one has to be active for the wukong clone to be active. 
wukong is the go to frame you want when you’re tired of a bit too much finger work. But it doesn’t encourages AFK gameplay.

This exists but is not the main issue at hand,

Also Not enough, idle timeouts can be reset with as little as pressing a button. 

Also not relevant to the discussion but telling monkey about wukong mechanics is like preaching to the choir. 

[0_The_F00l]

2 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Against, I dislike anything that encourages or allows for AFK gameplay. Poor game design.

Glad to know we are atleast not on opposite views on this one 🙂

 

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

Have you tried minding your own business and playing how you want? Instead of a single AI.....lol

[DeMonkey]

1 hour ago, (PS4)B80Oi1 said:

There is a mechanism in place with the twin clone of wukong for those who don’t know, if you stand idle with him, the clone will stop functioning even if you are surrounded by enemies, thus, one has to be active for the wukong clone to be active. 
wukong is the go to frame you want when you’re tired of a bit too much finger work. But it doesn’t encourages AFK gameplay.

Course it does. I include "can put something on your keyboard to stop the game counting you as idle" as afk gameplay.

[0_The_F00l]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Have you tried minding your own business and playing how you want? Instead of a single AI.....lol

Any specific reason for the aggressive tone? did i insult your pet fish or something?

P.S.

And its precisely because i am facing issues playing how i want that i made this post.

Edited April 4, 2020 by 0_The_F00l

[CoefficientOfCool]

much easier to troll with kuva obrama than with limbo atm, at least for me but I cant speak for all my fellow potato prime computer users.

 

bonus troll points no other weapon equipped on wukong except brama

[MPonder]

Isn't there any Graphical setting for light????

Almost AFK farming is fine for how boring to farm is, as long as it doesn't translate to leeching or someone using 3rd parties, Hydroid and Nekros are at my top 4 played frames and I was hardly with the game ON when playing them. I did some AFK farm with WUkong + Ogris on some solo defense lich missions.

[0_The_F00l]

2 minutes ago, MPonder said:

Isn't there any Graphical setting for light????

Almost AFK farming is fine for how boring to farm is, as long as it doesn't translate to leeching or someone using 3rd parties, Hydroid and Nekros are at my top 4 played frames and I was hardly with the game ON when playing them. I did some AFK farm with WUkong + Ogris on some solo defense lich missions.

There are some graphical settings you could adjust - usually making it lower, but they dont help a lot (definitely better than high graphic settings) put still its the difference between being burnt by regular fuel vs burnt by rocket fuel you still burn.

I also feel its disservice to keep the settings on low for such a gorgeous game (i still do the moment i see a kuva bramma wielding wukong).

 

That last part is more an issue with the game design , any game mode that makes more sense to AFK is a failure in my eyes.

[3rdpig]

The visual aspect is the only issue I have, and that's true no matter what warframe they're playing, and it's been true in more games than WF. Players shouldn't be able to blind other players and prevent them from playing their own style. I've played other games, Defiance, I'm looking at you, where there were weapons that were so bright and overpowering that the only way to kill enemies was to use an AoE weapon yourself and just fire in the direction of red dots on the mini map. It's one of the main reasons I quit that game.

And all would take is one slider, "Turn off other players weapon graphics" and the problem would be gone. However, not a single game I've played has done it.

[0_The_F00l]

1 hour ago, ChaosSabre said:

Mirage doesn't get staggered if you don't shoot your bow at your feet. So no you can still spam that bow super hard and create even more particle spam than a wukong.

Exactly , IF it does not shoot too close, Aimbots dont care about such trivialities.

1 hour ago, ChaosSabre said:

Then you should also add self damage to other clone abilities as well like umbra, equinox and specters too.

The moment they get the ability to have infinite duration and healing along with the ability to use mods i will do so.

1 hour ago, ChaosSabre said:

You do know that E button is tied to melee? Melee doesn't have ammo. I can literally press auto button on my controller tie a rubber band so he always moves in circles and afk a survival mission if I wanted. By that logic we need to nerf every melee in game and Inaros too.

You at this moment are not even making sense.

Please tell me again how is this statement even remotely relevant to the auto aimbot AFK usage of Bramma?

How can a player shoot a bramma that automatically aims at enemies while he keeps E pressed?

Please take your time and come back with an actual point that adds to the discussion. I dont mind if it is against the points i made , but try to apply some thought behind it.

1 hour ago, ChaosSabre said:

Please do tell where is the button that turns off visual effects of Octavia in game options? And no pressing 1 with Octavia every like 50 seconds is not that much skillful play either.

Did i mention skill? no

You are free to make your own post that mentions how octavia or Inaros should be changed i may support you depending on the actual suggestions you make,

The discussion is on Wukong + Bramma , its in the title , its also in the post.,

If either of these frames had the ability to Create a specter that continuously launches projectiles at enemies i would happily add them to the same suggestion i have right now.

 

 

[Redfeather75]

A setting to lower other players effects could help to ignore some of the headache. I have not checked settings in a bit so I don't know if such a setting already exists!

Edited April 4, 2020 by Redfeather75

[Foeglas]

As a Wukong main and habitual minmaxer, I find this strange on multiple levels.

1) Bramma is one of the worst weapon types for Wukong clone. Slow firerate, contact or manual (not proximity) detonation, and manual alt-fire. When using Bramma yourself, you can detonate the arrows directly over a cluster of enemies that you can only see on the minimap. The clone, on the other hand, needs to a) not hit a wall b) hit an enemy c) hit a surface very close to the enemy it just missed. You'd be shocked how often it whiffs c).
    1.1) Acceltra is more consistent for low-level enemies (Sortie Tier 3).
    1.2) Kuva Nukor is more consistent for high-level enemies (Railjack Grineer).
    1.3) Staticor is something you have to see to believe for short (< 30 min) Index runs.
2) Wukong is slower than spoiler mode with both Zenurik waybounds, Mind Sprint, and energy pad spam for straight-line travel. You speak of a meta, but he's not one of the meta choices for many "endgame" missions (e.g. Mesa Scarlet Spear, Chroma Profit Taker, Saryn ESO). The same applies to Bramma...it's good, but not a replacement for a nuke frame. If you're serious about minmaxing, why not use a better tool for the job + spoiler dash? If you're serious about leeching, why settle for 3 lives when you can be nigh-invincible (Limbo) instead?

Edited April 4, 2020 by Foeglas

[Diavoros]

I want to be MVP but those "lazy players" don't let me! How dare them get a higher kill ratio and damage rating with less effort!
Play solo, play with other players that don't use wukong, etc

[z3us32610]

Rt after I read this thread the very first mission had a wukong + bramma combo and it was exactly how it always is. I understand OP's frustration. Perhaps nerfing the damage celestial twin does with aoe weapons would help a bit? 

I used the bramma exclusively for about a week right after it was released and I effortlessly wiped the map with the thing. It got boring, in all fairness. And it made coop completely pointless because I consistently killed 75% of the enemies. But that really isn't an issue so much as the semi afk playstyle OP is talking about.

If I get annoyed by coop then I just switch to solo. Most of the time group play is funner than solo but when it isn't, I'm glad I have the option to play by myself. I know it's not the solution a lot of people want to hear but it is one I can control and instantly removes any annoyances brought on by public matches.

[Rhalick0]

Players have already asked to be able to tone done the effects of certain weapons in this game but DE has continued to ignore that stuff in preference to throwing out random nerfs based on whims.

[TioMegaManX]

Back when self-damage was still a thing it was quite prevalent once the Kuva Bramma came out, my only complaint was how it was very hard to see stuff with all the explosions but that could be fixed without nerfs and stuff.

[0_The_F00l]

6 hours ago, ChaosSabre said:

Take Inaros or Rhino or Atlas. You can't get knocked down with that either. You can just run and shoot at your feet and not care bout anything. Sure it's not aimbot but it's Kuva Bramma. Who needs to aim with that to begin with.

Wukong clone is not infinite. He can die. It's not the player fault you'll never see content in which it can die using this strategy.

How is it not related? I literally told you a way you can afk with Inaros as well. Sure it's not one button press but it still is a easy afk method where you'll never die.

I do not see rhino's or Atlas in 60% of the missions I play coloring my screen, that is the major difference - mostly because what you described is not as efficient to clear the level. 

You want to run though the whole mission shooting at you feet? Be my guest, I will probably never have to worry about being blindsided as I will practically not be near you. 

Wukong clone has "infinite duration" and a means to heal and infinite ammo and follows the player very closely, you are yet to explain how any of the others can do all that.

It is a game design Flaw, yes, that makes one loadout superior or atleast super convenient over anything else, it would have been fine If that was it, but what is convenient for a lot of people is causing me literal pain , and that is why I am suggesting game design changes,

do you see me blaming individual players? No, I am blaming the overall mechanics for a specific combination. 

You can AFK with Inaros till the cows come back home. It does not affect me and it does not affect the current discussion. 

6 hours ago, ChaosSabre said:

.And again. It's a problem you have. I honestly don't understand the hate boner you got for this. It's a PvE game. Like I see absolutely zero reason to complain about this. The clone is still killing enemies. It's gonna be even more effective than some players you'd get in team. It's not like you are getting a limbo that just shifts into a rift and stays afk while spinning in a circle.

Did you not read the original post? It gives me a literal headache, due to the blasts in my vicinity having strong flashes of light and continuous explosion sounds, if it was once in a while I could bare. 

But the frequency by which I encounter it only makes it worse for me hence the very specific suggestion. 

I am OK if either the frequency of the encounters or the intensity of the effects can be reduced without affecting the rest of my or your playstyle.

I have a personal dislike for AFK mechanics, yes , but they would normally not cause me physical pain. Only emotional annoyance at best.This thing is causing me both.

It is not  about the efficiency, damage or kill count support of the ability. 

And since they are AFK I could always ignore and then report them. I cannot ignore getting flashes of light and thunder sounds in my ears every few seconds. 

7 hours ago, ChaosSabre said:

.Like does it make your e-peen look smaller when someone does this with Wukong and that's why you are upset? I legit can't think of any other reason.

Maybe read the post and not jump into a discussion based on just the title to get an answer to this. 

Others have understood it you seem to choose not to. 

7 hours ago, Redfeather75 said:

A setting to lower other players effects could help to ignore some of the headache. I have not checked settings in a bit so I don't know if such a setting already exists!

This would indeed help, hence I have added it to the possible ways to fix this. 

6 hours ago, Foeglas said:

As a Wukong main and habitual minmaxer, I find this strange on multiple levels.

1) Bramma is one of the worst weapon types for Wukong clone. Slow firerate, contact or manual (not proximity) detonation, and manual alt-fire. When using Bramma yourself, you can detonate the arrows directly over a cluster of enemies that you can only see on the minimap. The clone, on the other hand, needs to a) not hit a wall b) hit an enemy c) hit a surface very close to the enemy it just missed. You'd be shocked how often it whiffs c).
    1.1) Acceltra is more consistent for low-level enemies (Sortie Tier 3).
    1.2) Kuva Nukor is more consistent for high-level enemies (Railjack Grineer).
    1.3) Staticor is something you have to see to believe for short (< 30 min) Index runs.
2) Wukong is slower than spoiler mode with both Zenurik waybounds, Mind Sprint, and energy pad spam for straight-line travel. You speak of a meta, but he's not one of the meta choices for many "endgame" missions (e.g. Mesa Scarlet Spear, Chroma Profit Taker, Saryn ESO). The same applies to Bramma...it's good, but not a replacement for a nuke frame. If you're serious about minmaxing, why not use a better tool for the job + spoiler dash? If you're serious about leeching, why settle for 3 lives when you can be nigh-invincible (Limbo) instead?

Tell this to the players that keep blasting my screen with the arrows. 

Maybe they will listen to you and use something else and spare me the headache. 

It is not just about efficiency, it's the convenience that allows them to do little as well that makes it enticing. 

Notice how I have not mentioned that it's a "strong" combo only that it is observed very frequently. 

I don't run eso, or profit taker, its not worth pursuing for me, maybe there are no wukong with bramma there I won't know. 

I do see them very frequently in the missions I play, most of them not beyond level 80 (floods, lich hunts, sorties, fissures) 

Scarlet spear has so far been the one with fewer of such combos.

5 hours ago, Diavoros said:

I want to be MVP but those "lazy players" don't let me! How dare them get a higher kill ratio and damage rating with less effort!
Play solo, play with other players that don't use wukong, etc

Read the original post then comment. I will not waste my time explaining the situation a second time.