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(PS4)Hopper_Orouk

Now that enemy scaling is fixed, viral and our unbelievable damage output need nerfing?

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Impact can finally be useful as an insta kill proc, that is also useful to proc parazon mods, but enemies right now die way too quickly

Add that Viral is too powerful in its current state

I used Viral extensively before the change because it was the best proc for every faction for indirectly deal double damage

but now it's too powerful 

There is no challenge currently in warframe...

 

I don't know how can DE solve this as they just buffed our melee, primary and secondary weapons within 3 years 

Nerfing them back wouldn't make sense

But currently the only challenge we have is time gated events and excessive grind

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I agree it doesn't make sense that Viral procs have the same bonus as Magnetic when everything has health and only some enemies have shields. 

While Viral was buffed, Corrosive was nerfed to anti-ferrite niche. Being neutral to Alloy and capped at 80% strip, it never surpasses Radiation as anti-alloy like it used to. This combined with the nerf to armor scaling makes Viral the best all rounder.

They could change Viral so it doesn't affect robotics and Machinery as well as introduce more Machinery enemies for the Grineer.

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1 hour ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

I agree it doesn't make sense that Viral procs have the same bonus as Magnetic when everything has health and only some enemies have shields. 

While Viral was buffed, Corrosive was nerfed to anti-ferrite niche. Being neutral to Alloy and capped at 80% strip, it never surpasses Radiation as anti-alloy like it used to. This combined with the nerf to armor scaling makes Viral the best all rounder.

They could change Viral so it doesn't affect robotics and Machinery as well as introduce more Machinery enemies for the Grineer.

i agree on the last point

also

enemies shield gating need to be buffed more...it needs to be on par with armor

armor is damage reduction that can't be mitigated using headshots

then why is shields, an already weak hp gets treated like this for enemies

 

i demand justice for our kill things

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“Let’s nerf our damage output and completely nullify the purpose of the enemy armor nerf”
 

You’re just actively seeking to ruin the game now. And I don’t appreciate it.

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7 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

“Let’s nerf our damage output and completely nullify the purpose of the enemy armor nerf”
 

You’re just actively seeking to ruin the game now. And I don’t appreciate it.

agreed, these casuals may be the population of the game. but they are doing so much harm as of killing it. 

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I was always a supporter of removing Damage enhancing mods (and making it innate to the weapons leveling)

And making elemental effects replace damage instead of add multiplicative damage.

Along with a few other unpopular suggestion about the mechanics of Multi shot and status effects.

 

The last armor rework "flattened the mountain top" which was enemy EHP and "raised the Plains"  which was some of the status effect changes.

 

Corpus were already easy to kill , i thought they would be harder now with shield gating and maybe magnetic could be a reasonable element.

*Aims at corpus head * nope , still killed just as fast with my previous corrosive loadout.

Grineer i expected to be easier as it was intended to make it less bullet spongy , and it has been mostly an improvement ,

But i did not expect Viral to be so much better thana corrosive loadout.

In a sense magnetic <any other element <corrosive < viral at the moment.

 

I have very simply replaced all my previous corrosive loadouts with viral ones.

So it has just shifted the Meta ,

Metas will always exist but i was hoping it would be a meta per faction not a meta for the whole game.

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49 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

“Let’s nerf our damage output and completely nullify the purpose of the enemy armor nerf”
 

You’re just actively seeking to ruin the game now. And I don’t appreciate it.

 

40 minutes ago, moostar95 said:

agreed, these casuals may be the population of the game. but they are doing so much harm as of killing it. 

Ok so i'm a casual because i don't want the game to be extremely boring and am seeking for a solution to balance enemy level and our damage output?

Ok then...i guess you like busted Viral damage that kills a nerfed version of our already weak list of enemies in 0.5 seconds 

If anything you guys are what's ruining the game at the moment 

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1 hour ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I was always a supporter of removing Damage enhancing mods (and making it innate to the weapons leveling)

And making elemental effects replace damage instead of add multiplicative damage.

Along with a few other unpopular suggestion about the mechanics of Multi shot and status effects.

 

The last armor rework "flattened the mountain top" which was enemy EHP and "raised the Plains"  which was some of the status effect changes.

 

Corpus were already easy to kill , i thought they would be harder now with shield gating and maybe magnetic could be a reasonable element.

*Aims at corpus head * nope , still killed just as fast with my previous corrosive loadout.

Grineer i expected to be easier as it was intended to make it less bullet spongy , and it has been mostly an improvement ,

But i did not expect Viral to be so much better thana corrosive loadout.

In a sense magnetic <any other element <corrosive < viral at the moment.

 

I have very simply replaced all my previous corrosive loadouts with viral ones.

So it has just shifted the Meta ,

Metas will always exist but i was hoping it would be a meta per faction not a meta for the whole game.

this

and dont forget gas, DE killed it for no reason. Just to taper the meta towards viral.

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22 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

But i did not expect Viral to be so much better thana corrosive loadout.

In a sense magnetic <any other element <corrosive < viral at the moment.

 

I have very simply replaced all my previous corrosive loadouts with viral ones.

So it has just shifted the Meta ,

Metas will always exist but i was hoping it would be a meta per faction not a meta for the whole game.

This isn't directed at your comment specifically but the whole 'meta' mindset in general.

For the majority of players...facing enemies that are less than level 350 is the most common situation...so all the comments about 'long runs' is fine that you need to tailor the setup properly but for the rest of the time viral worked and still works fine.

Min-max meta mindset says to beat armor enemies you need to strip armor then kill them fast because they have only health left. That means corrosive to strip that armor.

Yet running viral builds seemed to kill armor enemies "fast enough" just not "min-max meta fast"...and still does kill fast enough.

Not everyone wants to run the same exact builds with the same exact weapons (with the same exact builds) just to get the 'min-max meta' benefits. That was what made Warframe fun...being able to take pretty much any frame to a mission and still be able to kill things and complete the mission. It seems some people only want the 'perfect' squad and like to stare at the mission results screen to see who kills the most or does the most damage, etc. and judge if the others are 'helping'...

The min-max meta mindset is what led to the Limbo nerf, the Khora cat nerf, etc. It is as much DE's fault for not putting more energy into thinking about how players can leverage the features in the game to counter game mechanics as it is the players that want to streamline game play down the making it 'boring' and then complain about how 'boring' the game is...

Sorry, just rambling now...since Scarlet Spear is so broken nobody is playing it and that is what I was hoping to be doing this afternoon.

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3 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

 

enemies shield gating need to be buffed more...it needs to be on par with armor

I'd personally change Shield Ospreys so they boost shield gating beyond armour level. Maybe make it so that Shield Ospreys make AoE weapons much less effective by preventing AoE from headshotting and removing the body bleedover whilst they're attached (with the head bleedover being reduced, but not totally). Perhaps even nerfing the bleedover from abilities as well. Add another support item/enemy that can buff their shields as the Ospreys used to, and that might make the Corpus a real menace even without reliance on Scrambus and Nullification.

In other words have the Corpus be really powerful when they've been alerted and set up all their support stuff, but much weaker individually compared to the Grineer. It makes sense that they'd rely on gadgets given that they're not really soldiers, and it might help change up the meta. Damage type meta might switch around, but it might also encourage precision weapons which can take out the support enemies and still have the bleedover. Different metas do apply to strategies and weapon types as well as damage types after all. It could even help Assault Rifles shine a little brighter, since they're a little bit of both which would make them ideal for Corrupted and Crossfire missions.

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7 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

I'd personally change Shield Ospreys so they boost shield gating beyond armour level. Maybe make it so that Shield Ospreys make AoE weapons much less effective by preventing AoE from headshotting and removing the body bleedover whilst they're attached (with the head bleedover being reduced, but not totally). Perhaps even nerfing the bleedover from abilities as well. Add another support item/enemy that can buff their shields as the Ospreys used to, and that might make the Corpus a real menace even without reliance on Scrambus and Nullification.

In other words have the Corpus be really powerful when they've been alerted and set up all their support stuff, but much weaker individually compared to the Grineer. It makes sense that they'd rely on gadgets given that they're not really soldiers, and it might help change up the meta. Damage type meta might switch around, but it might also encourage precision weapons which can take out the support enemies and still have the bleedover. Different metas do apply to strategies and weapon types as well as damage types after all. It could even help Assault Rifles shine a little brighter, since they're a little bit of both which would make them ideal for Corrupted and Crossfire missions.

This and so much this

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3 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

 

Ok so i'm a casual because i don't want the game to be extremely boring and am seeking for a solution to balance enemy level and our damage output?

Ok then...i guess you like busted Viral damage that kills a nerfed version of our already weak list of enemies in 0.5 seconds 

If anything you guys are what's ruining the game at the moment 

Wanting to be able to kill enemies is a bad thing? Last I checked the name of the game was Warframe, not dontkillthingsframe.

Also, is how anybody can say Viral is a problem as it is an easy to obtain damage type that can be applied to literally any weapon. It’s something that’s available to everyone, and some something that’s exclusive to one single frame or weapon.

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You're more than welcome to stay in a mission for more than 15 minutes and you can also remove some of your mods instead of trying to ruin the game for such a small issue.

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I don't think casuals are the problem but the braindead people are. I hope you realize that by nerfing our damage you will negate the armor changes..

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The only real issue, is that other damage types got left in the dirt. Gas damage was quite strong, now it’s a joke. Toxin was more versatile. Corrosive actually had a point. Heat was buffed, and was great, then got hit with the nerf bat too. Magnetic is still pointless. Impact and puncture are still meh. They say the tried to expand the meta, when in reality it got put in a viral/slash choke hold. I’m hoping for more changes to come, and the sooner the better. 

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1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

I'd personally change Shield Ospreys so they boost shield gating beyond armour level. Maybe make it so that Shield Ospreys make AoE weapons much less effective by preventing AoE from headshotting and removing the body bleedover whilst they're attached (with the head bleedover being reduced, but not totally). Perhaps even nerfing the bleedover from abilities as well. Add another support item/enemy that can buff their shields as the Ospreys used to, and that might make the Corpus a real menace even without reliance on Scrambus and Nullification.

In other words have the Corpus be really powerful when they've been alerted and set up all their support stuff, but much weaker individually compared to the Grineer. It makes sense that they'd rely on gadgets given that they're not really soldiers, and it might help change up the meta. Damage type meta might switch around, but it might also encourage precision weapons which can take out the support enemies and still have the bleedover. Different metas do apply to strategies and weapon types as well as damage types after all. It could even help Assault Rifles shine a little brighter, since they're a little bit of both which would make them ideal for Corrupted and Crossfire missions.

I love this idea.

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i'm gonna answer each comment here respectively...

41 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Wanting to be able to kill enemies is a bad thing? Last I checked the name of the game was Warframe, not Crowdcontrol frame.

clearly you have no idea what balance is, it's just DE has giving us so much power, people feel attacked when someone mentioned nerfs...

25 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

You're more than welcome to stay in a mission for more than 15 minutes and you can also remove some of your mods instead of trying to ruin the game for such a small issue.

yeah sure, i'd stay for more than 15 minutes...if it has any meaning or value whatsoever....also how many comments about "remove all mods" before i get a proper constructive argument 

 

20 minutes ago, CodeUltimate said:

I don't think casuals are the problem but the braindead people are. I hope you realize that by nerfing our damage you will negate the armor changes..

you also clearly have no idea what balance is...oh and by the way...bullying by calling people braindead will get you nowhere but probably a few karma here and there

18 minutes ago, (XB1)Deputy Facepain said:

The only real issue, is that other damage types got left in the dirt. Gas damage was quite strong, now it’s a joke. Toxin was more versatile. Corrosive actually had a point. Heat was buffed, and was great, then got hit with the nerf bat too. Magnetic is still pointless. Impact and puncture are still meh. They say the tried to expand the meta, when in reality it got put in a viral/slash choke hold. I’m hoping for more changes to come, and the sooner the better. 

this ^ ...i can't possibly understand why people that claim to be more than "casuals" can't comprehend this...

13 minutes ago, (PS4)death404 said:

I love this idea.

it's really good...give corpus enemies more power...more power more challenge

and power not some health and armor buffs....but technical buffs...how they deal damage, when they do it, 

adding more gadgets and ways to try and kill our warframes will spice things up 

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27 minutes ago, CodeUltimate said:

I don't think casuals are the problem but the braindead people are. I hope you realize that by nerfing our damage you will negate the armor changes..

oh speaking of braindead people 

the armor scaling doesn't work like that my friend 

right now armor and health scaling work as a S curve which means the negation you're talking about is not just a poor choice of words, but also a poor comprehension of how this new scaling works 

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Digital Extremes developers could make it so heat status effect removes viral stacks over time? Cold status effect prolong viral duration? Gas status effect spreads viral stacks to new enemies?

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1 hour ago, CodeUltimate said:

I don't think casuals are the problem but the braindead people are. I hope you realize that by nerfing our damage you will negate the armor changes..

Not necessarily.

As long as all the factions are roughly equivalent to each other in terms of EHP (at least in a practical sense), then DE can balance damage overall much more effectively. That'd open the doords for real 'elite' units and bosses that aren't just bullet sponges, make AoE DPS abilities or weapons a lot less overbearing. Rebalancing viral could and should involve rebalancing the environment it's in.

 

Besides, it won't really negate the armour changes. There was that thread a while back which suggested that level 125 enemies were as tanky as level 999 enemies are in the new system, or something to that effect. I doubt that a nerf to viral will have quite that much counter-effect, even if the other thread was probably hyperbolic.

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What would be the point? It would just negate the armor changes.

Frankly the scaling is still broken as hell and I don’t think DE is willing to rip the band-aid off and fix it. Are our damage numbers way too high? Yes. But they need to be that high in order to make the game playable at higher levels.  I’m not talking about 5 hour endurance runs. I mean arbitrations, lich missions, sorties, anything that goes above 60 really. If you start applying blanket nerfs to our damage without some kind of major compensation, the game will get very frustrating very quickly. Would I like it if enemies died slower and you had time to care about status effects like cold and puncture and impact? Sure, but that would also require a major reduction in enemy spawn rates, which also requires a complete overhaul of enemy drop tables and AI. But the way it is now, with rooms full of 30 enemies shooting you from every angle doing near one-hit-kill damage, they have to die easily. If we get weaker against enemies, they will have to get weaker against us.

I also completely refute the notion that “there is no challenge in Warframe.” That’s nonsense. Simply giving enemies more health does not equate to creating a challenge. And “more challenge”  does not equate to “harder.”

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3 hours ago, Loza03 said:

I'd personally change Shield Ospreys so they boost shield gating beyond armour level. Maybe make it so that Shield Ospreys make AoE weapons much less effective by preventing AoE from headshotting and removing the body bleedover whilst they're attached (with the head bleedover being reduced, but not totally). Perhaps even nerfing the bleedover from abilities as well. Add another support item/enemy that can buff their shields as the Ospreys used to, and that might make the Corpus a real menace even without reliance on Scrambus and Nullification.

If I understood, (I may have not), & to put it simply, make Shield Ospreys like Ancient Healers but for shields? Why not

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1 minute ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

If I understood, (I may have not), & to put it simply, make Shield Ospreys like Ancient Healers but for shields? Why not

Pretty much. Just with an added anti-AoE (similar to how Ancient Healers have anti-Status).

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I usually say that DE needs to be willing to nerf more often. But in this case, I think a buff would actually be better. Simpler, at least.

The main problem is that the only places where super high damage output is actually necessary are a very small portion of the game. The only time you need to go full out with your damage modding is if you are doing long endless missions where you are going to be fighting level 200+ enemies. Otherwise, the entire starchart only goes up to level 40, and most of the rest of the game only goes to around 80. If you're even halfway decent at this game, you can clear the entire starchart without even using catalysts or forma, and a fairly basic set of mods.

The starchart level scale is one of the many parts of this game that are super outdated. It was implemented when level 40 stuff was actually fairly hard to kill, even with the best gear you could get. But that's obviously not the case anymore. So if DE were to increase the maximum level of the starchart to something like 80~100, it would be a simple fix and help a lot, because then a bigger portion of the game would have tougher enemies.

Either that, or add a difficulty selector like they said they were going to a very long time a go.

I also think the maximum multiplier on viral procs should be reduced. It was fine when it was basically 2x, but now it goes all the way up to 4x. Bringing it back down to 2x would make way more sense.

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