Discussion on recent direction of DE, updates and tennocon

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

Just take a break from making new content and revitalize the old so that it comes on par with the present content.

Look back at everything they’ve promised for the game, implement it properly, fix bugs along the way, fix numbers, fix the learning curve, and for Gods sake, stop listening to the wrong content creators. 

[AzureTerra]

The game needs new content for both old and new players alike and they can rework as they go. If they stop to fix old content at the cost of adding new stuff it falls apart. Sure there is old content with bugs still but generally its a workable game and even the new content that comes out while it may be a hot mess at first gets iterated to a point where its much more stable. 

Really it should be a solid mix of both with the players being more understanding and accepting that things take time (Ha!) with maybe a smidge of DE not getting too big of an idea on what they want to do and finding out that it was beyond the scope of reasonable timeframe to release in. More staggered multipart releases could work ~ Block of content, its associated fixes and then when its stable release the next chunk that some other devs have been iterating before it goes live (As much as we are the testers they do need to Test more for the large scale disruptions that any new thing brings)

[Dhrekr]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Gentleman_Raven_ said:

So what should DE do? Listen to the Veterans who want new content or fix the old content for new players?

Is there even anything to be discussed here? Why does this thread exist?

Answer is "both". They have to both innovate, renovate, repair and maintain. Worse still, they have to prioritize and invest finite resources in a task that grows bigger and bigger.

Of course it is simple for us to sit here like armchair game developers and snobbishly say "well they haven't been very good at it during these last 5 years" as if we were all experts. Yes, we all have a pet peeve, and we can all give DE a scathing review for not having set their agenda to fit our specific preferences.

[trunks013]

Fixing content is not always for new player a lot of older players want fixes for issues they have been struggling with for years.

Honestly with a game this size and with so much different system in it . Keeping balance between bug fixing , community management , new content and actual balance of the game is a task easy said but hardly done ^.^ 

Edited April 6, 2020 by trunks013

[(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK]

Sometimes going forward doesn't mean you are actually moving forward. There's a fine complicated line indeed, but it's DE's job to ultimately determine what is needed and where they will prioritize their best teams. It's a happy medium players want, but the thing is not all players agree with DE and not all players agree with each other. So where does our line stand when we have 3 different fronts? 

 

 

 

[SneakyErvin]

The thing is, old content doesnt need a fix, what the old content needs is a rework. The old modes arent broken, they are simply outdated. I'd be all for a rework of old modes, since it would practically be new content at the same time. 

I can only think of a small amount of actual fixes, actually I can only think of one, which is defectors getting stuck at times in defection. I'm not sure what people refer to when they say "X mode needs a fix" besides that really.

With the release of railjack a mode such as defection could see a massive change in a rework, it could be something used in RJ, where we need to escort the defectors to a ship that we would then have to escort with a railjack. Heck it would be a perfect squad link mode if they get that system to work properly.

Defense could likely be reworked into a more tower defense like mode, where we defend an objective in an area with breakable and repairable walls, with hordes of enemies with dangerous elites (think demolysts) that try to take down the walls. Add in assassin units so people need to think before leaving the objective to go out and kill those elites. Leave the objective undefended and the assassins will jump it. Things that require us to multitask and not just stand around holding our crankshaft.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Honestly, the further along we go this year. The more I’m leaning towards the idea that DE should stop making new content for a few months and work on fixing content that needs it. Maybe re establish communication with the community in the process over how content should be made moving forward.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

Given the state of new content and open worlds being saddled with bounty systems and gated syndicate hurdles I'll take fixing the game at this point or them focusing on new content that is reworks like the Jupiter reimagining at this point in the train wreck.

[(PSN)Gentleman_Raven_]

29 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Maybe re establish communication with the community in the process over how content should be made moving forward.

^Definitely this^

[JackHargreav]

Even if they fix old stuff the new content will probably break it. So there's no point in focusing on just one of them.

[3rdpig]

IMO the code has become so complex and unwieldy that both new content and fixing old content has become extremely difficult. Also, it's using an old game engine that may not be capable of doing a lot of things we want it to do such as better AI. Unless they somehow manage to seriously streamline it the disasters we've seen in Railjack, Liches and Scarlet Spear may be the new norm. SS hasn't worked right since release, codes still aren't being reliably transmitted. 

While it probably won't happen, I think the best thing they could do is start fresh with a modern engine and develop it side by side with the current game. Let the New War be it's own game with a modern engine and put all new content there. With a new engine and no old spaghetti code, new content should be way easier to implement and bug fix. Get everything in the existing game fixed, but at that point stop development.

[Rakosta_Kai]

If I had my preference, I would rather DE stop listening to the players through all venues and do what they think works for the next year.

I say this with one caveat: Promise nothing beforehand and release nothing that isn't rock solid and precisely what they intended/envisioned in the first place.

• No half finished works
• No bug ridden messes
• No new content with nebulous hoops that just gets released as a playable WIP instead.
• No more asking the community what they think about X because then everyone wants you to enact their X and complains when they release Y instead.
• No more taking cues from random commentary on social media and acting on them immediately (DMC style melee springs to mind immediately as does denying content to pve in favor of pvp).

DE should play their game like the rest of us, take the time to listen to feedback from players clandestinely, and try out what they are hearing complaints/concerns about and make their own reasonable decisions.  Are they doing this?  Probably to some degree...But there's no way they are leading with that or they are procrastinating (which is worse imo) on solutions to their discoveries as so much stuff remains just plain broken for so long.

[DSAUSAGE]

Dont do revisit things when you already out of Develop energy,

fix bugs first, not making new bugs from old things, please.

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

With three down and one to go, 

Now that we have been given Railjack, the kuva lich system and squad link, with only the new war still to come, which was given a 2019 Christmas release date,

We now can honestly ask ourselves. Can we trust anything shown off at Tennocon anymore?

With everything they have shown off and told us was coming , even going as far to ask the community team to the stage to “play” a “live demo” , somehow not represent a finished product ,  how are DE going to get people hyped for things to come in the future . If everything is ether late, missing things that were promised or completely different?

Even the New war has gone from being promoted as the next story cinematic quest, to apparently starting when Railjack was released. And being drip feed to us over the year… 

So how do you feel about Tennocon Hype,   from what was shown to what we got. ?

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

We were told it was a demo. 

In normal circumstances, I'd say that the community has no one to blame but themselves for OVERHYPING the content shown, knowing that DE would probably ship it buggy and barren and then fix it six months later as per usual.

But in this circumstances, I'd say both parties are to blame. Digital Extremes for blantantly lying to their fanbase at this point, and the fanbase for not knowing what the **** it wants out of this game!

Edited April 6, 2020 by (PS4)LeBlingKing

[BDMblue]

It’s one of those strange things. The developer does not have something done we all know it yet they want to show off their current idea. Most reasonable people know it’s not the final product but some like you don’t.

we have 2 choices 1 they don’t show any ideas just finished work and keep the rest under raps. Or 2 they make you complete a test about your knowledge of game development before you watch if you lack basic knowledge and are likely to be offended you can’t watch?

[Gabbynaru]

Watch Dogs and Dark Souls 2 already taught me never to trust pre-release hype. The only product you can trust is the one you and the rest of the world can play.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Gabbynaru

[DrBorris]

Tennocon seemed like a fine example of what was shown off, the flaws were transparent and the "WiP" label was clear. And I'd rather DE show what they are working on. Ya know, be transparent? You can't ask them to show what will be shipped because even they don't know what will be shipped. Unless, of course, you'd rather them only ever show off finished products, which would mean no transparency on what they are currently working on.

 

Also, was all caps for the title really necessary? Screaming won't make more people hear you.

[Vlada91]

Yea its weary disappointing, specially when they are good company. And i didn't expect something like that from them to go in that bad direction.... And after new war next upcoming big update whose supposed to bee paradox big update and now its nightwave 3 big update. And nightwave supposed to bee just bonus and not something that slowed down other good projects.... 

Edited April 6, 2020 by Vlada91

[DatDarkOne]

2 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Watch Dogs and Dark Souls 2 already taught me never to trust pre-release hype.

Mine goes all the way back to TombRaider: Angel of Darkness.  

[(NSW)235714]

I´d say just have faith in the devs,this year we can give em a brake after you know, the pandemic and all, just be patient, I personally think the Devs will have real content this in Christmas since we´ve had teasers of potential ¨void tunnels¨ in the rj starmap

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

8 minutes ago, BDMblue said:

It’s one of those strange things. The developer does not have something done we all know it yet they want to show off their current idea. Most reasonable people know it’s not the final product but some like you don’t.

we have 2 choices 1 they don’t show any ideas just finished work and keep the rest under raps. Or 2 they make you complete a test about your knowledge of game development before you watch if you lack basic knowledge and are likely to be offended you can’t watch?

OK   but what were they playing..  and making it look like it was far in development, there is a diffence between a demo and a live demo....they faked a live demo..  

[(NSW)235714]

But they did give almost everything they promised, they introduced the lich system, later they released the railjack, scarlet spear is live and Deadlock is right around the corner,so they have done as much as they could considering the circumstances

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)SolarPhantom82 said:

 

Now that we have been given Railjack, the kuva lich system and squad link, with only the new war still to come, which was given a 2019 Christmas release date.

DE already came out and explained how The New War is going to work...its not a cinematic quest anymore. 

The only thing that we really dont know much about is Planes or Duvri. But everything else: it's out 🤷‍♂️

[--Aegis--MR9]

DE is the most transparent developer I have seen. 

In fact, at Tennocon 19, DE very clearly said that Railjack was at a very early stage, before they started that demo gameplay.

Tennocon 19 never promised Kiva liches, they dropped that one out of nowhere, most of the community was very surprised. 

We all knew that Railjack would be a Christmas thing and New Year would be a Tennocon 20 thing. Obviously the Railjack is far from what we expected, wanted. DE, not being able to deliver complete functioning polished package is the real issue, not their transparency. They never lied, they never overhyped anything, they missed a lot of deadlines and failed many times specially in the last year, to give us something complete, and they apologized for it many times. 

Its a free game, and lets admit it, DE, with all their flaws and issues, is still an amazing developer. I am not on of those DEfenders, I have my own share of frustration over the current state of the game. But I DEfinitely appreciate the work DE has done and the communication they maintain with the community.

Edited April 6, 2020 by --Aegis--MR9