Solution to Current Unfolding Events: A "Council of Design"

[(NSW)Greybones]

Hmm. 🤔

I’m strongly under the impression that the idea behind this group of players consolidating ideas and feedback for DE to see is so that we on the forums feel like we’re contributing to Warframe. Yes I know it seems obvious, but I’m leaving room for those who think otherwise.

To be effective though, I think this group would have to take on more responsibility than just giving voice to feedback. @Zsword’s rant and question at the end made me think. How would a design council have prevented what happened with Limbo and the other changes? And I was left thinking “I dunno either”. “...hmmm.... But I think I know how to find out”.

We want DE to listen to us, but what do we know about their capabilities? We’re often assuming that what we suggest is possible. The stuff that happens behind the scenes; funding, work capability, tools available, focus and time allotment. That’s all stuff that we the players are not exposed to. Nor should every one of us be. 

Even if a group were to make us feel listened to, even if it successfully conveyed our ideas to DE, we’re barely closer to helping with the whole picture, because we don’t know how to contribute to a huge part of it.

The group would need knowledge to refine consolidated suggestions from the community. If they (the group) are going to suggest that the orbiter‘s outside be realized, they need to know if it’s possible. If they’re going to suggest that Limbo’s stasis has a cooldown instead of building resistance, they need to know if it’s possible. If they’re going to suggest that Character defense objectives should be healable by so and so amount, while static defense objectives are healed by a different amount, they need to know what’s possible.

This council would have to be privy to knowledge that the average player isn’t (experience in the fields surrounding game design would be a boon). Internal knowledge from DE would have to figure in to which ideas are chosen and which are left behind, lest suggestions that sound great on paper turn out to be a nightmare to implement and may break the vision being sought by DE.

I feel it’s one thing to have a group we players can turn to to feel better about ourselves. I think it’s another to have a group that’s valued by both players and DE.

Wouldn’t it be grand though 

edit: Is this already a thing? I’m not that familiar with the groups that help DE. Sorry if I look the fool 😋

Edited April 7, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones
God I require way too many edits and should just keep my mouth shut

[GreyDeath789]

44 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

That's the community.

"Let's make backseat developers official."

Just go apply for a job if you care that much.

LOL...some people are just...well...

These comments may be made in earnest...but it seems limiting at best and insulting at worst.

A passionate player community that is willing to share ideas and to offer criticism is dismissively labeled "backseat developers"...too funny. DE just asked for community input on the next Warframe...from the "backseat developers"...

The fix...pay all those passionate players to work for a company...yep...employ thousands of people so they are not "backseat developers"...too funny. Well, I guess most of these new employees would already be connected via the internet and probably many of them would have video capability.

 

[(NSW)Greybones]

20 minutes ago, GreyDeath789 said:

The fix...pay all those passionate players to work for a company...yep...employ thousands of people so they are not "backseat developers"...too funny. Well, I guess most of these new employees would already be connected via the internet and probably many of them would have video capability.

.......🤔

[AtsiaZ]

49 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

edit: Is this already a thing? I’m not that familiar with the groups that help DE. Sorry if I look the fool 😋

Spoiler

Yes, undfortunately. The Design Council has been a thing for years now, with minimal meaningful input on the game.

 

[(NSW)Greybones]

29 minutes ago, Atsia said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Yes, undfortunately. The Design Council has been a thing for years now, with minimal meaningful input on the game.

 

The design council doesn’t quite live up to expectations. That’s why we’re here in this topic, right?

edit: Thanks for offering an option regarding whether there’s similar groups. I was a little confused at first, but realise now that it does provide an answer to my question in an unexpected way 👍

Edited April 7, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones

[(XBOX)Grimsley Clause]

6 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

The design council doesn’t quite live up to expectations. That’s why we’re here in this topic, right?

Yup.

[Chicken-Biryani]

6 hours ago, AzureTerra said:

We are the testing squad and the thing with limbo shows it in action, what it also shows is how crap people are at accepting that stuff that they were cheesing with is going to be fixed.

I am not even playing warframe, lol, if you think I am the one cheesing, go look at my post in feedback where I was one of the first to point how easy limbo was making space mission. 

(I played first 3 days of the event or so and then came back around 31st March for one more try and then uninstalled for good.) 

[LoxeBi]

35 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I guess I need to understand the responsibilities of the Design Council better then. What were they meant to do? What abilities did they have? Were they told what went on behind the curtain?

I’m gonna look up additional information, but I’d like to be on the same page with your input

We can reply to pre-created topics, can't post our own topics, and have invested too much into the game to be controversial. Most of the topics we can respond to are to use our ideas so DE can focus on nerfs. Some examples include...

New 3rd Ability for Nyx!

Mod Pack feedback!

New focus node! (Posted Sep 2018. Yeah ok)

Vote for next warframe! (Hint, its the one thats literally supposed to be based off a glitch. Maybe it'll be a warframe that's railjack incarnate)

Call for submissions - Nightwave acts!

New Kavat Breeds!

Two topics about moa pets. (I see moas about as frequent as I see someone who has 1k hours in the game use the normal kraken)

Call for submission! NEW mother#*!%ing PECULIAR MODS.

Tier 4 founder, 11 full prime accesses (most old), and Ivara prime access tier 2 for a total of $1870, not including prime vault and platinum over the 7 years. All for it to go to their heads.

Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by LoxeBi
Post date for Focus nodes and better finish

[rand0mname]

My sarcasm meter almost broke. It was like taking stairs to 15th floor after years of not doing so.

 

P.S. Who is Robert? One of those people who left a year ago because of content drought?

[Ice_Peck]

1 hour ago, GreyDeath789 said:

LOL...some people are just...well...

These comments may be made in earnest...but it seems limiting at best and insulting at worst.

A passionate player community that is willing to share ideas and to offer criticism is dismissively labeled "backseat developers"...too funny. DE just asked for community input on the next Warframe...from the "backseat developers"...

The fix...pay all those passionate players to work for a company...yep...employ thousands of people so they are not "backseat developers"...too funny. Well, I guess most of these new employees would already be connected via the internet and probably many of them would have video capability.

 

Design Council is not in the thousands.

[(NSW)Greybones]

4 hours ago, LoxeBi said:

We can reply to pre-created topics, can't post our own topics, and have invested too much into the game to be controversial. Most of the topics we can respond to are to use our ideas so DE can focus on nerfs. Some examples include...

New 3rd Ability for Nyx!

Mod Pack feedback!

New focus node! (Posted Sep 2018. Yeah ok)

Vote for next warframe! (Hint, its the one thats literally supposed to be based off a glitch. Maybe it'll be a warframe that's railjack incarnate)

Call for submissions - Nightwave acts!

New Kavat Breeds!

Two topics about moa pets. (I see moas about as frequent as I see someone who has 1k hours in the game use the normal kraken)

Call for submission! NEW mother#*!%ing PECULIAR MODS.

Tier 4 founder, 11 full prime accesses (most old), and Ivara prime access tier 2 for a total of $1870, not including prime vault and platinum over the 7 years. All for it to go to their heads.

Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

 

Thanks for this insight into what it’s like on the Design Council.

From what I’ve seen on the forum it seems that players have been putting stock into the Design Council quite a lot, but the council isn’t as influential as I’d expected (hence this topic). When I first heard of the council I was thinking that they were part of the process that figured in to changes made in the game, but it seems that they’re missing that crucial feedback from DE for the council to refine the suggestions or ideas gathered from the community, and instead they’re relegated to, well, I guess as it says on the tin, “The Design Council is an exclusive area of the forums that allows for voting on future features of Warframe with polls run by the Dev Team. Whether deciding the next weapon type or a new Warframe power, the Design Council has the ability to shape Warframe”.

I can see how and why it’s not hitting the notes of “Changing Warframe”, and if people have built up the capabilities in their minds of what the council can do, I can see how it’s a problem.

edit: Sorry for the weird formatting on my post

Edited April 7, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones

[Xsoskeleton]

13 minutes ago, rand0mname said:

P.S. Who is Robert? One of those people who left a year ago because of content drought?

AGGP, who singlehandedly nag DEvs so hard to remove Titania's vacuum on razorwing that they made a series of augment that disables warframe passive and trades it for trivial stats

[rand0mname]

2 минуты назад, Xsoskeleton сказал:

AGGP, who singlehandedly nag DEvs so hard to remove Titania's vacuum on razorwing that they made a series of augment that disables warframe passive and trades it for trivial stats

Oh. That one.

Thank you.

[LoxeBi]

3 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Thanks for this insight into what it’s like on the Design Council.

From what I’ve seen on the forum it seems that players have been putting stock into the Design Council quite a lot, but the council isn’t as influential as I’d expected (hence this topic). When I first heard of the council I was thinking the they were part of the process that figured in to changes made in the game, but it seems that they’re missing that crucial feedback from DE for the council to refine the suggestions or ideas gathered from the community, and instead they’re relegated to, well, I guess as it says on the tin, “The Design Council is an exclusive area of the forums that allows for voting on future features of Warframe with polls run by the Dev Team. Whether deciding the next weapon type or a new Warframe power, the Design Council has the ability to shape Warframe”.

I can see how and why it’s not hitting the notes of “Changing Warframe”, and if people have built up the capabilities in their minds of what the council can do, I can see how it’s a problem.

That sounds like a sizeable incentive to have been/be on the council.

edit: Sorry for the weird formatting on my post

There's a mentality of "Design council is Useless!" Which is implying the founders have access to actually affect the game.Truth is, we're about as influential as a new MR3 player. We just have too much invested in the game to make a big deal of it on the actual forum, the community general discussion.

Let me be perfectly clear. The goal here is is to hold DE accountable to their mistakes, as everyone else, whether content partner, founder, F2Player, Longtime Finacial Supporter, and Dev is. I do not think Hiveminding "DE is bad and therefore they should burn for the rest of their careers" is even remotely appropriate. The ball is in their court, to choose to make the right move or live with the consequences and go start over.

[Ice_Peck]

Just now, LoxeBi said:

Design council has 1279 people following it, not including founders who don't follow it. As for the amount of people active in it? Probably lots less due to the posts I made above.

Just an estimation.

"Has 1279 people following it, not including founders who don't follow it."

 

Following is not being IN the council. Following is tracking what the council does -- if anything.

 

You gave me a very specific number. But then say "Just an estimation."

 

Provide informational sauce in your next post.

[Sarge_Tarmus]

 

5 hours ago, Skiepher said:

There is already a Design Council and a Partner Program

A friendly reminder, that DE treats PP as merely a way to hype the game. While they're trying to suggest good changes, DE doesn't listen even to them.

[LoxeBi]

You would be correct.

Edited April 7, 2020 by LoxeBi
Incorrect information

[(XBOX)Grimsley Clause]

10 minutes ago, LoxeBi said:

Design council has 1279 people following it, not including founders who don't follow it. As for the amount of people active in it? Probably lots less due to the posts I made above.

Just an estimation.

The thread continously unfollows a lot of people, seemingly monthly now.

That number is inaccurate as it even recently just unfollowed a buncha people, myself included, again. Just not feeling like following a thread we don't use anymore outside verifying councilors for the Design Council discord, which had to be made by us since DE, again, didn't really give us a good way to communicate thoroughly.

[LoxeBi]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Grimsley Clause said:

The thread continously unfollows a lot of people, seemingly monthly now.

That number is inaccurate as it even recently just unfollowed a buncha people, myself included, again. Just not feeling like following a thread we don't use anymore outside verifying councilors for the Design Council discord, which had to be made by us since DE, again, didn't really give us a good way to communicate thoroughly.

Was not aware of this. I do not use the forums that much, because there is not really a point to it. I will edit the post to change my info.

[(XBOX)Grimsley Clause]

2 minutes ago, LoxeBi said:

Was not aware of this. I do not use the forums that much, because there is not really a point to it. I will edit the post to change my info.

Pretty much the reason we switched to Discord.

More entertaining and engaging there than here.

[GreyDeath789]

1 hour ago, Saberfrost said:

Design Council is not in the thousands.

Sigh...and the comment wasn't about the current DE design council...but you know that and just want to make a...point?

But if the design council isn't in the thousands...how many is it currently? How many should it be to represent the player community properly?

In fact, what role(s) should the design council fill to help represent the player community?

Oh...wait...not here to provide meaningful input just bump the thread. Good deal!

Should a 'new' design council be made up of a mix of old (veteran) players and newer players?

Is a council of 13 enough to help represent the entire community? Maybe 23? Is 67 enough or too many?

[AzureTerra]

3 hours ago, Nehra96 said:

I am not even playing warframe, lol, if you think I am the one cheesing, go look at my post in feedback where I was one of the first to point how brain dead easy limbo was making space mission. 

(I played first 3 days of the event or so and then came back around 31st March for one more try and then uninstalled for good.) 

Aside from me quoting you, you were not mentioned as doing anything. 

Edited April 7, 2020 by AzureTerra

[Helch0rn]

3 hours ago, LoxeBi said:

invested too much into the game to be controversial.

 

I know someone who got invited to the dc with a bunch of permanent warning points on his account, he got when he stirred up some controversy

[(PSN)robotwars7]

as a DC member, I'd just like us to have something to do regularly again. the alerts we used to make were quite fun, even though some of us just tried to make them unfairly difficult. for a time, it actually felt like we were shaping the game. now though, anything we say usually falls on deaf ears. would be nice to actually feel like the council is doing something again.

[SneakyErvin]

The issue with such things is that it would have to be big enough to reflect the whole community, much like how you do public research polls regarding this or that. If it is too small you run the risk of ending up with just people of likeminded ideas or completely seperate ideas for everyone, which then may result is content that is used extremely little by the public, like raids or similar things for instance or no decisions ever being made except by luck of the draw from a ticket in a hat or something. The group needs to be able to do clear votes during their sessions to see what is popular or not before deciding to have it sent as ideas to development and such a thing can only be achieved with a large enough group.

And given the size of the game we'd look at thousands of council memeber in order for it to actually work.