So what are making Warframe bad currently?

[(NSW)Kirbys-Epic-Yarn]

Honestly to me the game is really good for the most part. To me I guess the biggest issue is the game needs to have some balance on the grind. Their is too much grind in the game and it would be nice to have some content like raids that’s purely forcing on co op and teamwork and not about winning things. I get that the games grinding game but I’m saying that it would be good to balance it out and not make it purely about grinding for stuff.

Edited June 29, 2020 by (NSW)JJA209
Misspelling

[(NSW)FlameDivinity]

On 2020-04-07 at 9:56 AM, Ailia_Grimm said:

We're sick of half-assed updates with no clear goal in mind

They added Liches as a personal, randomised nemesis. We got a murmur farm mini-game which leads to Liches being killed in two hours

They made Railjack as an big expansion. We got a game-mode that has nothing to do with the core game with always the same thing to do: Kill big grineer ships, disable the kill-ship platform, & kill 70 smaller ships

Now Scarlet Spear, they said themselves that they wanted to lesser the grind & just have a fun event to get arcanes. We got even more grind than Eidolons & got Khora & Limbo being nerfed because of one temporary event

We just want DE to listen, if they continue this way, it's not gonna be a break of a few months, we're gonna leave the game for good this time

This^

[Felsagger]

4 hours ago, (XB1)DOMPATRIOT said:

My problem with Warframe is that it looked like it had a cool direction, and nowadays that direction seems to be a Chinese Dress-ups Mobile Game, and the community seems to be ok with that...

I actually applaud DE for somehow keeping players playing for so long without really trying, just drop some tennogen and another Orbiter Decoration, and if that doesnt work, just release a thick prime frame...

Let me explore this interesting fascinating post and what it says between lines. Finally someone said it explicitly. 

 

1. It seems to be a Chinese Dress Up mobile phine game? Well, is because the game IS a Chinese Dress UP game. Look at Tensen games and look how Leyou Company managed this game for the last four years. I don't have prejudice against Chinese individuals, their language, art or education. I am against the oversimplification of a good formula turned into a shallow and shoddy experience over the year. 

DE is not responsible for it. DE is constrained by Leyou demands. They own the court hence they put in their approach, an approach that is systematically disarming and dismantling the  the game up to rubble. Companies comes and go while the community are forced navigating downgrade waters against their will. I've seen the community accepting such fate with abnegation, denial, bliss, stubbornness and even delirium tremens without alcoholism. 

We are the one who needs the reminder here. We carried the zero in our backs for so long because we got used to it like the battered housewife syndrome. Yes we search for escapism and a placebo comfort zone without properly critiquing the improvements of the game assets. We reap what we sow. This is our doing and for it we deserve the punishment. This time DE is not the only one who is guilty. DE is the company with the lesser percentage of the blame. We made out of this game our DIGITAL DRUG. And now we can't escape our frustrations and tribulations of our decisions. 

2. We have to live with our own decisions. DE retained players without even trying. We placed our wallets in their silver platter. If the cheap set art collection of Tenno Gen doesn't work they launch a frame with the same parkour of the rest with some gimmick powers for the roll out of this PACHINKO machine. At this point makes no sense the harsh critiques against DE. We must endure them first and REVIEW our gaming habits. 

We have to meditate how we see this game. Sometimes we have the obligation of doing a retrospective behavior about what we are expecting out of this RNG, gear check gate, XP time gate, GAAS F2P game. We engulfed ourselves in lots of WISH LISTS expecting the best. Voluntary, we conceded them power over our will, expectations and desires. I'm sure that DE laughs their lungs out when a player writes a novel explaining why he left the game. The irony of life is that we are ENTERTAINING DE this much for seven years when is supposed to be otherwise. We became the buffoon, the fool, the clown and the interloper on this circus. 

We surrendered our will to expectations and drop chance tables of better times. Innevitably the game will be better in the eyes of new players while the seasoned players will be looked upon as winning girls in a sweet sixteen parties when they are forced to dance with a SIMP because the best males where already chosen. Sadly this is our Saralee, we paid for it and we told DE how we want to get abused. Sadly there are pop culture and literature giving prime examples of it. 

 Eurythmics: Sweet dreams (are made of this)

Some of them want to use you
Some of them want to get used by you
Some of them want to abuse you
Some of them want to be abused

We condoned this abuse as a quotidian breakfast. We love to get deceived and guiled in a daily basis up to a fairy tale level. Why this happened? Why there is no escape? Is there is one? Of course, other games. My suggestion is this: purchase and play other games. Have other hobbies, expectations and entertainments, have other visions of game design, inform yourselves. Learn to engage and disengage. Learn to take a hiatus and be reflective about certain actions. We went hypnotized to a point that we defend the hypnotism. 

Can DE delete any comment. Of course they can. Can DE revoke our account? Of course they can. Can DE cut their incomes. Of course they are not going to risk it. I think that DE is not the one to blame here. We submitted ourselves voluntary toward this punishment. Therefore a price must be paid for such decisions. The game will eventually improve but our habits will NOT. This is the point I'm trying to stress out. The game evolves but we keep repeating the same cycle like an obsessive compulsive addict. 

I think DE had enough of our critiques. We went up describing everything with a decimal accuracy. The ones who requires a thoughtful retrospective here are US. Our stance should not gravitate on what DE can do right, wrong or better. Our stance should traduce with actions instead of written words. When they see a gap in their bank account, believe me they will end up doing miracles. Right now they are in a comfort zone where they are forgiven every year. We brought this upon ourselves. If they see a massive migration as a passive reprimand they will fix their house. Covid 19 gave them them time since is completely understandable. Once that plague recedes then there will be no excuse FOR US. 

This is a harsh critique that must be written so people think and reflect. We became prisoner of our devices. It's time to get organized and demand quality in our game in a constructive civic way. If DE doesn't comply, fine, we pick someone who does voting with our wallet. Actions speak louder than words. 

 

 

[vegetosayajin]

It's far FAR AWAY from bad until you get to the "endgame" experience - you got all the normal and prime frames/weapons, vandal, prisma, kuva etc variants/you did all the quests/you got all the mods&arcanes and min-maxed all or most of your gear/you got plenty of cosmetics/you maxed all or most of the focus schools/you can do +150-200 content while falling asleep(and remembering when lv25 seemed like hell)/you tackled fashion-frame/you beat all the things and farmed all the things(not buy, farmed) ...
And after all this intense experience you load into the game and have nothing else to do except wait for the few breadcrumbs of content and because you are "geared up" the content takes from 1-2 hours to 2-3 days to finish(depending on rng) and it seems extremely easy. So you are left with a great experience from the past that you can't replicate and you can do one of two things - except it and just play occasionally when there is something new or go online and reeee.

[Leyvonne]

On 2020-04-07 at 5:10 PM, (PS4)songojames said:

I’ve been hearing recently that Warframe has been getting worse to the point of it being bad now. Could someone list the things wrong with Warframe that are causing this? Thanks.

For me it is having Railjack in NIghtwave while we still don't have Command Intrinsic. Imo that is a massive middle finger to solo players so I play other games while I wait.. and tbh I think I might be waiting forever as I don't believe in DE implementing the intrinsic anymore. It has been 6 months, questions about the intrinsic are ignred / dodged every time players have asked... Game isn't bad, I just don't trust DE to deliver what was promised at this point.

[Felsagger]

12 minutes ago, Leyvonne said:

For me it is having Railjack in NIghtwave while we still don't have Command Intrinsic. Imo that is a massive middle finger to solo players so I play other games while I wait.. and tbh I think I might be waiting forever as I don't believe in DE implementing the intrinsic anymore. It has been 6 months, questions about the intrinsic are ignred / dodged every time players have asked... Game isn't bad, I just don't trust DE to deliver what was promised at this point.

 

Best way to resume this thread. 

[Magus_Tahir]

Have we really gotten to the point of being so bored that a two-month-old thread is being resurrected?

Or has something happened recently that prompted it?

[TaIirah]

Test

[TaIirah]

About what Felsagger said (because i can't quote him somehow) on being addict to Warframe.


Sadly, i think people here don't want to hear that. They'll keep talking about "how bad the game as become" or "how DE don't listen". They'll focus on this tiny little piece of the issue because the real cause is too scary. Which is logical, because we are talking about a game that is supposed to ease our anxiety or at least giving us some fun. We don't want to talk about things that would add to our anxiety.

But it's true nonetheless. Lots of gamers act like addicts. Me included. I'm fighting to stay "clean", to not compulsively play a game (that i enjoy at first) but to have broader range of games that i play, broader activities. And the problem is the same if you play 2 hours by day or 5. Playing the same game over and over for years isn't healthy. Would it be Warframe or Warcraft, Call off, Fortnite, GTA.
If you expect one game as your first and foremost source of entertainment, of enjoyement, as time pass, you'll BE frustrated, angry, disapointed, even more if you keep playing it if it makes you angry or frustrated. Getting a last fix isn't the solution to stop being an addict, to have your problems disappear and having a better experience. You may say angrily at your drug dealer that his stuff is S#&$ty, if you still come to him to buy his stuff, he'll keep providing you with his stuff. You ask for it after all.

And i'm not saying this so you'll feel guilty. I don't blame anyone. I want gamers to realise that we have a problem with the way we consume video games. The way we "enjoy" our hobby. You can't fix something if you live in denial

Edited June 29, 2020 by Tonelyon

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, Tonelyon said:

About what Felsagger said (because i can't quote him somehow) on being addict to Warframe.


Sadly, I think people here don't want to hear that. They'll keep talking about "how bad the game as become" or "how DE don't listen". They'll focus on this tiny little piece of the issue because the real cause is too scary. Which is logical, because we are talking about a game that is supposed to ease our anxiety or at least giving us some fun. We don't want to talk about things that would add to our anxiety.

Precisely. I can't say it better. I wish that my language attains this level of flexibility and proficiency. In simple words you resumed 90 percent of such posts, with accurate precision. 

 

Quote

But it's true nonetheless. Lots of gamers act like addicts. Me included. I'm fighting to stay "clean", to not compulsively play a game (that i enjoy at first) but to have broader range of games that i play, broader activities. And the problem is the same if you play 2 hours by day or 5. Playing the same game over and over for years isn't healthy. Would it be Warframe or Warcraft, Call of Duty, Fortnite, GTA, etc.

The art of restraint takes years to master. Control over own impulses provides us better position in the art of decision making. The process can take decades. The Video Game industry did their research. Now we have to DO ours. 

Quote

If you expect one game as your first and foremost source of entertainment, of enjoyement, as time pass, you'll BE frustrated, angry, disapointed, even more if you keep playing it if it makes you angry or frustrated. Getting a last fix isn't the solution to stop being an addict, to have your problems disappear and having a better experience. You may say angrily at your drug dealer that his stuff is scrap, if you still come to him to buy his stuff, he'll keep providing you with his stuff. You ask for it after all.

Surprisingly it is LITERALLY THAT. 

Hence 90 percent of the critiques are a joke at best. This is why we become a stand up comedy and even a meme. Rebecca already made fun of us long time ago. Her mouth went faster than her brain. 

 

Quote

 

And i'm not saying this so you'll feel guilty. I don't blame anyone. I want gamers to realize that we have a problem with the way we consume video games. The way we "enjoy" our hobby. You can't fix something if you live in denial

I AM GUILTY!

I'M GUILTY AS CHARGED!!! 

We have to realize this and change our attitudes. We have to break up cold and start organizing our lives. Placebos comes and go. Some developers provides satisfying ones but they are, and should be understood as hobbies. We have to realize this when we go all berserk critiquing DE. These guys studied and "FARMED" their careers at the university, they studied hard combining their hobby with their job. Should I blame them for trying? No, we SHOULD do the same. At least make something out of it that becomes productive to ourselves. 

I learned a lot about video game design. I learned a lot about psychology and player behavior. I learned many things that made me change my attitude. Out of my naive curiosity, maybe, just maybe DE is trying to teach us something here. We are not listening. They listened to us for a lot of time. Now is our turn. 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Felsagger

[Teridax68]

22 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

The problem with that are the people who only look at the 3 "shame" updates that fit in on those points (somewhat) and use them as the norm even though the game has 7 years of updates in the trunk. I mean, out of the 7 years of updates there have been 3 really questionable once (these latest 3) and one where the design kinda fell flat (SO/ESO). The rest have been pretty well made and most issues have been centered around smaller bugs and tiny balance problems early on. Should 3 releases really be seen as the norm when they are in reality the outliers?

It seems we may have a different understanding of the game's development, as there were many more PR debacles in the past, such as The Vacuum Within, DE's fallout with prominent community artists, their attempted lawsuit of a third-party site that dared to reveal the drop rates for Warframe's loot, the small war they waged and lost against a community incensed at the behavior of some of its mods, to say nothing of the year of content drought, the grindfests that are ESO and Arbitration, the horrible scoring implementation of Dog Days, the horrendous initial grind for both PoE and Fortuna on their respective releases, the botched releases of Khora and Revenant, and the downgrading of warframe releases where they were no longer guaranteed to come with quests (and those that did, like Revenant, weren't guaranteed to have interesting quests either).

Over the recent years, DE has visibly overcommitted to big promises, such as the two open levels we got, but also Liches and Railjack, and routinely underdelivered due to mismanagement an an obsession with rushing content out as soon as possible, all while frequently devoting far too few resources towards aspects of the game players would like to see given more attention, such as releasing warframes that don't need several waves of reworks and rebalances immediately after release to be useful, let alone enjoyable. Updates that do release frequently come with the same kind of overinflated grind, which players keep pointing out and which only gets deflated much later on, and when new content gets added, it's often in the form of a content island, one that fails to provide a durable increase to the game's playtime as players get all the rewards from the island and promptly abandon it. Balance is still only a nebulous concept, as DE struggles to give us challenging content that isn't also incredibly tedious. 

It is only recently that they've been wising up to some of these issues, and releasing content updates that try to fix some of the problems that players have been complaining about. Even so, there's a ways to go: The Deadlock Protocol and Jovian Concord updates are excellent and have permanently upgraded our tilesets, but then the recent status rework is so hilariously poorly balanced one wonders if any math at all went into informing its implementation. Similarly, the melee rework suffered from a ton of scope creep, seemingly just because Steve played a bit of DMC5 and wanted it in Warframe, and the end result is a new melee system that, while overall probably better than Melee 2.0, still suffers from a ton of clunk and not much diversity in builds or play. In conclusion, I don't really think those three terrible updates were outliers, so much as more extreme examples of development problems that have plagued the game from the start. DE has gotten better in some ways at addressing those, but have a long ways to go, and to this day I'm still not entirely sure if they're yet ready to actually tackle the more difficult subjects in the game or their own company.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Teridax68

[Emolition]

On 2020-04-07 at 7:56 PM, Ailia_Grimm said:

Farming bosses is, well, farming bosses, the lich system doesn't even revolve around liches for the most part, it revolves around thralls & murmur farm. Again, that's not what was planned, & they didn't even ask us before releasing it

Hmmm don't know about that back when they started talking about the kingpin system that now became the lich system. They talked about having to work your way up to take down the target (leader) of the "organisation". The thralls might not be as intresting as it made out sounding back then. But they did talk about it in the past so it nothing out of the blue.

[HoustonDragon]

I'm enjoying it. There are some serious bugs (the Ropolyst fight this week has been hilariously bad for people getting stuck and/or completely glitched), but they have been the exception and not the norm to the overall gameplay. There's still a lot of grindy things that could badly use a rework and balancing (I'm looking squarely at you, Vox Solaris rep grinding), as those are quite painful for low level and starting players to get into.

 

Depends on what you're trying to get out of the game, honestly. There's still plenty of stuff to work on and collect, and I'm hoping they do more overall scheduled events to keep it engaging. Have you completed ALL the weapons and Warframes out there? Have you done all the Syndicate reputations? Gotten all of Simaris' rewards? Maxed out your Quills/Vox Amps? Built all your K-Drives, Zaws, Kitguns? HAVE YOU FISHED ALL THE FISHES?! :P

[Felsagger]

I wonder if DE likes their own game. I'm starting to question that. 

[SneakyErvin]

12 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

It seems we may have a different understanding of the game's development, as there were many more PR debacles in the past, such as The Vacuum Within, DE's fallout with prominent community artists, their attempted lawsuit of a third-party site that dared to reveal the drop rates for Warframe's loot, the small war they waged and lost against a community incensed at the behavior of some of its mods, to say nothing of the year of content drought, the grindfests that are ESO and Arbitration, the horrible scoring implementation of Dog Days, the horrendous initial grind for both PoE and Fortuna on their respective releases, the botched releases of Khora and Revenant, and the downgrading of those releases where they were no longer guaranteed to come with quests (and those that did, like Revenant, weren't guaranteed to have interesting quests either).

Over the recent years, DE has visibly overcommitted to big promises, such as the two open levels we got, but also Liches and Railjack, and routinely underdelivered, all while frequently devoting far too few resources towards aspects of the game players would like to see given more attention, such as releasing warframes that don't need several waves of reworks and rebalances immediately after release to be useful, let alone enjoyable. Updates that do release frequently come with the same kind of overinflated grind, which players keep pointing out and which only gets deflated much later on, and when new content got added, it was in the form of a content island, one that failed to provide a durable increase to the game's playtime as players got all the rewards from the island and promptly abandoned it. Balance is still only a nebulous concept, as DE struggles to give us challenging content that isn't also incredibly tedious. 

It is only recently that they've been wising up to some of these issues, and releasing content updates that try to fix some of the problems that players have been complaining about. Even so, there's a ways to go: The Deadlock Protocol and Jovian Concord updates are excellent and have permanently upgraded our tilesets, but then the recent status rework is so hilariously poorly balanced one wonders if any math at all went into informing its implementation. Similarly, the melee rework suffered from a ton of scope creep, seemingly just because Steve played a bit of DMC5 and wanted it in Warframe, and the end result is a new melee system that, while overall probably better than Melee 2.0, still suffers from a ton of clunk and not much diversity in builds or play. In conclusion, I don't really think those three terrible updates were outliers, so much as more extreme examples of development problems that have plagued the game from the start. DE has gotten better in some ways at addressing those, but have a long ways to go, and to this day I'm still not entirely sure if they're yet ready to actually tackle the more difficult subjects in the game or their own company.

The game has been a content island game from the start, nothing has ever interacted with anything else. It however didnt become the word of the month until RJ was released and some toober started using it (too much), which was the only piece of content that shouldnt be an island and instead connect the game, which still may happen. But complaining that other things are content islands is just silly, since it has been like that forever. I also think underdelivery is a side result of players overhyping themselves way too early on. Liches were underdelivered for me, not so much in the content that was provided, but in how lazily designed they were at start. They felt so unimaginative. SO/ESO were also different from what was shown earlier. PoE and Fortuna have delivered good content that was on par with the expectations and promises. The grind behind fortuna and other things is a matter of taste. I've never seen anything in the game as "horrendous" grinds, they dont even clock in as bad grinds compared to several other western game. Could be that I'm used to MMOs where the WF grind would be a fresh breeze of easily obtainable loot.

I'm not sure where the expectations come from that new frames should be perfect out the door and not require reworks and balancing soon after their release. I've played no games where mechanics and balance have been perfect for new classes or heroes right out the door, not even those we pay for, like the necro of D3. And if people think the grind tied to releases is over inflated I'd say they are playing the wrong type of game with the wrong type of business model. Are a couple of hours really too much to ask for?

I dont see many troubles with the new melee, I do see issues with the status revamp though. The reason that made the 3 or well 2 updates outliers were because they were hastily implemented and not fully designed. RJ however was said to be released that way well ahead of time since they wanted our feedback and help since it was such a new mode, liches though had no reason to be released as they were. DE havent released things in those states before, that is why they are outliers. The rest of the things are more a matter of taste if players like them or not and in a game as wide as WF releases will be hit and miss at the same time. DE just needs to make sure that the releases are as finished as possible in the future and not at Lich or RJ levels. I had nothing against the RJ release, I didnt mind helping to test it, but I understand if other had issues with it since we arent playing on a test server.

[SneakyErvin]

18 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

I wonder if DE likes their own game. I'm starting to question that. 

They do, that is why their visions take priority over guaranteeing they are loved by the majority of the players. That if anything is a sign of true passion, since they dont just do what is popular.

[Teridax68]

23 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

The game has been a content island game from the start, nothing has ever interacted with anything else.

This is patently false:

• Tilesets interact with practically all of our missions. New tilesets mean new environments to play our missions in, and new mission types mean new things to do in our tilesets.
• Sorties use our missions and tilesets.
• Fissures use our missions and tilesets.
• Syndicates use our missions and tilesets.
• Invasions use our missions and tilesets.
• Nightwave, despite its issues, uses the rest of the game for its content.

Contrast this to the following:

• The Plains of Eidolon and Orb Vallis. Sorties only recently have applied to the Plains, along with the occasional Nightwave challenge, but outside of those, once you're done with the rewards in either place, there's nothing to bring you back.
• Kuva Liches. Same deal.
• SO/ESO. Same deal.
• Arbitrations. Same deal.
• Railjack. Same deal, but on top of that, Steve explicitly promised that it wouldn't be the case.

Take note as well that these content islands are also all fairly recent additions to the game, in contrast to the stuff mentioned above.

23 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'm not sure where the expectations come from that new frames should be perfect out the door and not require reworks and balancing soon after their release. I've played no games where mechanics and balance have been perfect for new classes or heroes right out the door, not even those we pay for, like the necro of D3.

This is a straw man, given that there is a world of difference between asking for a warframe to be perfect on release, and asking for a warframe to be decent enough on release to not require a rework within the literal first few weeks. Read that again: you are trying to excuse warframes needing drastic changes soon after release day because their design or balance is so bad. This hasn't just happened once either, it's happened multiple times in recent years, notably with Khora and Revenant, but also the Saryn rework, and now Protea. It's not like we haven't had good instances either, as Harrow was a notably well-designed frame from the start, and the Nezha and Wukong reworks have been largely considered to be spot-on. Clearly, DE can do better, because they have done better already.

23 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

And if people think the grind tied to releases is over inflated I'd say they are playing the wrong type of game with the wrong type of business model. Are a couple of hours really too much to ask for?

A couple of hours for what, a single component to an item that requires multiple components to be assembled? Again, this is just more apologetics, as DE themselves have routinely admitted to overdoing the grind, and have released updates now on a routine basis that tone down the grind of previous content. We got one just recently for Railjack, for example, and before that there were drastic passes for Kuva Liches, Fortuna, PoE, Arbitrations, and so on. I'm not sure what reason one has to be to be wilfully blind to this pattern.

23 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

RJ however was said to be released that way well ahead of time since they wanted our feedback and help since it was such a new mode, liches though had no reason to be released as they were.

Okay, so within this same sentence, you have:

1. Demonstrated that one has no reason to believe DE's excuses, as you've pointed out a clear instance of said excuse not applying, and so for an update that immediately preceded RJ.
2. Begged the question of what feedback DE would even have been looking for when the Railjack they released was so underdeveloped and antithetical to everything they'd hyped us up for that they could only have expected the deluge of criticism (and associated player count drop) that they received.

So... what's up?

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

This is patently false:

• Tilesets interact with practically all of our missions. New tilesets mean new environments to play our missions in, and new mission types mean new things to do in our tilesets.
• Sorties use our missions and tilesets.
• Fissures use our missions and tilesets.
• Syndicates use our missions and tilesets.
• Invasions use our missions and tilesets.
• Nightwave, despite its issues, uses the rest of the game for its content.

Contrast this to the following:

• The Plains of Eidolon and Orb Vallis. Sorties only recently have applied to the Plains, along with the occasional Nightwave challenge, but outside of those, once you're done with the rewards in either place, there's nothing to bring you back.
• Kuva Liches. Same deal.
• SO/ESO. Same deal.
• Arbitrations. Same deal.
• Railjack. Same deal, but on top of that, Steve explicitly promised that it wouldn't be the case.

Take note as well that these content islands are also all fairly recent additions to the game, in contrast to the stuff mentioned above.

This is a straw man, given that there is a world of difference between asking for a warframe to be perfect on release, and asking for a warframe to be decent enough on release to not require a rework within the literal first few weeks. Read that again: you are trying to excuse warframes needing drastic changes soon after release day because their design or balance is so bad. This hasn't just happened once either, it's happened multiple times in recent years, notably with Khora and Revenant, but also the Saryn rework, and now Protea. It's not like we haven't had good instances either, as Harrow was a notably well-designed frame from the start, and the Nezha and Wukong reworks have been largely considered to be spot-on. Clearly, DE can do better, because they have done better already.

A couple of hours for what, a single component to an item that requires multiple components to be assembled? Again, this is just more apologetics, as DE themselves have routinely admitted to overdoing the grind, and have released updates now on a routine basis that tone down the grind of previous content. We got one just recently for Railjack, for example, and before that there were drastic passes for Kuva Liches, Fortuna, PoE, Arbitrations, and so on. I'm not sure what reason one has to be to be wilfully blind to this pattern.

Okay, so within this same sentence, you have:

1. Demonstrated that one has no reason to believe DE's excuses, as you've pointed out a clear instance of said excuse not applying, and so for an update that immediately preceded RJ.
2. Begged the question of what feedback DE would even have been looking for when the Railjack they released was so underdeveloped and antithetical to everything they'd hyped us up for that they could only have expected the deluge of criticism (and associated player count drop) that they received.

So... what's up?

It's still islands because they dont interct with eachother outside of having different modifiers for the same tile.  All mission types are islands.

So damn hilarious that you claim invasions, sorties, fissures and syndicate missions arent islands, yet arbitrations, eso and liches are, even though they are all just missions. Make up your mind atleast when you try to prove something is or isnt an island. Dont make seperate rules for missions when they are either or.

[Teridax68]

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It's still islands because they dont interct with eachother outside of having different modifiers for the same tile.  All mission types are islands.

Did... did you actually read what I posted? What are you even asking for here? It looks like you're inventing a completely nonsensical definition of "content islands" in order to devaluate its actual application. Missions aren't "content islands" just because DE hasn't yet crunched multiple mission types into the same level (and even that's not true, what with the infamous Capture-turned-Exterminate event and the like), and it makes sense to call them that because new content heavily relies on us replaying missions that have existed for a long time, e.g. new Prime releases and the like.

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

So damn hilarious that you claim invasions, sorties, fissures and syndicate missions arent islands, yet arbitrations, eso and liches are, even though they are all just missions. Make up your mind atleast when you try to prove something is or isnt an island. Dont make seperate rules for missions when they are either or.

So everything's a content island... because they're missions? What? This is the dumbest argument I've read in a long time, particularly as I've explained in rather simple terms what makes a content island and what doesn't. It seems like the only problem here is that you have absolutely no idea what it means for content to be an island, or are deliberately trying to twist the definition out of shape. Nobody else here seems to have the same trouble understanding what makes a content island, nor which types of content are islands now.

[Loza03]

A nasty little problem: neither players nor enemies have interesting weaknesses to create engaging combat scenarios.

Players can have 360 degree killauras or 'no AI allowed' zones, and can keep them up as long as they want with huge amounts of self-sustaining equipment, meaning there isn't really room for enemies to have interesting design.

But by contrast, enemies can track players through walls and have other questionable design decisions because the AI was written for a stealth/action game where you weren't really supposed to pick fights with large clumps of enemies - which naturally causes a problem in a game which is now all about picking fights with large clumps of enemies!

[SneakyErvin]

5 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

So everything's a content island... because they're missions? What? This is the dumbest argument I've read in a long time, particularly as I've explained in rather simple terms what makes a content island and what doesn't. It seems like the only problem here is that you have absolutely no idea what it means for content to be an island, or are deliberately trying to twist the definition out of shape. Nobody else here seems to have the same trouble understanding what makes a content island, nor which types of content are islands now.

They are or they arent. Arbitrations/ESO/Liches are just new mission types/modes, if you think invasions arent islands then you cant possibly think those 3 are either.

Overall WF is filled with content islands since few things interact with eachother and most things have their own purpose and goal seperate from the rest. The problem for you is that it seems like you think content island means that it is a one and done thing, that if you have no reason to come back when you have everything it is a content island. That isnt it. And even if it was it would exclude liches and arbis since you can come back for rewards in them over and over since we have this thing called Kuva in the game. You are more likely to be definently finished with invasions and the rewards they bring long before you are done with liches and arbis. Same would be the case for nightwave since when you hit max rank you have no reason to do more, thus having "no reason to bring you back" as you said yourself.

So in WF either everything is or it isnt a content island, since it either fills the need of universal progression, which would include RJ due to intrinsics effecting AW everywhere in the game, weapons usable everywhere being obtained there etc. or it all has its seperate purposes and goals that have no impact on the other islands. So I'd say nothing is an isle when you look at progression, but if you look at how content pieces connect with eachother I'd say everything is an island.

[Prexades]

Someone with a PS4 tag made a complaint thread, trying to find something to complain. How original.

[Hexsing]

Railjack and Lich for me.  Especially in Nightwave.   I have a Lich. It on earth. I have never attempted it once.  She just lives there. I gave her earth.  I'm not interested in this forced game mode.

I built my Railjack and I have not even seen what the inside looks like. I have not and will not play it.  

I have spent money on the game and I turn it on here and there.  But I won't spend anymore because I just don't like to forced into modes of play that I don't care for.

But I do have fun here and there.

[Teridax68]

15 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

They are or they arent. Arbitrations/ESO/Liches are just new mission types/modes, if you think invasions arent islands then you cant possibly think those 3 are either.

Have you played any of these? ESO just locks you in a room and makes you play the same game mode. How is that not a content island?

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Overall WF is filled with content islands since few things interact with eachother and most things have their own purpose and goal seperate from the rest.

Yes, welcome to the point.

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The problem for you is that it seems like you think content island means that it is a one and done thing, that if you have no reason to come back when you have everything it is a content island. That isnt it.

That isn't actually how I defined content islands, but do go off.

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And even if it was it would exclude liches and arbis since you can come back for rewards in them over and over since we have this thing called Kuva in the game.

Neither of which are optimal ways to farm the thing. Kuva is but one of many resources in this game, and trying to say something isn't a content island just because it drops some kind of resource found elsewhere is... well, not very smart.

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You are more likely to be definently finished with invasions and the rewards they bring long before you are done with liches and arbis.

As someone who has actually played all of these, I respectfully disagree. Liches in particular took about a week to go through.

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Same would be the case for nightwave since when you hit max rank you have no reason to do more, thus having "no reason to bring you back" as you said yourself.

Except the currency can be used to purchase potatoes, Kuva (at an actual reasonable rate this time), and other repurchaseable goodies, and maxing out all Nightwave ranks usually takes the better part of the event. It could certainly stand to be a lot better, but by nature it is not isolated content.

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So in WF either everything is or it isnt a content island, since it either fills the need of universal progression, which would include RJ due to intrinsics effecting AW everywhere in the game, weapons usable everywhere being obtained there etc. or it all has its seperate purposes and goals that have no impact on the other islands. So I'd say nothing is an isle when you look at progression, but if you look at how content pieces connect with eachother I'd say everything is an island.

You are rather obviously grasping at straws here to try to find reasons to not call content islands content islands. Who exactly are you trying to convince?

[Felsagger]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

They do, that is why their visions take priority over guaranteeing they are loved by the majority of the players. That if anything is a sign of true passion, since they dont just do what is popular.

No they don't.

 

That is your perception which is fine, but their tone and enthusiasm decreased exponentially. I honestly think they don't like the game up to this day. They seem burned out  and disenchanted with it. Their excitement and that mantra of hype is completely gone. 

 

 

Sorry to say this Ervin but Teridax has a point. Read carefully what he is arguing. 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Felsagger