They need to DElay The New War, DElay the duviri paradox

[ConsumerJTC]

Seeing the recent strings of updates, they need to consolidate on what they already have.

The open worlds just feel like giant reusable tilesets, the liches only have two personalities are are basically bulkier heavy grineers with gatekeeping and not proper nemesises that would actually scare/threaten us and railjack is still so very broken, only grineer are a fightable faction and it is very disconnected to the main game.

And seeing what they are planning to have in store this game we could make an allusion. Such a heavy weight without consolidating on the foundations that are still made wood, it will eventually collapse on itself.

Please, delay whatever new ideas you have. Fix and expand our forgotten content that we might have.

[(NSW)Greybones]

I’d like to see core content streamlined more as well. Loving the revised update. Is there a reason they wouldn’t delay their plans? 🤔

Edited April 8, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones

[Dhrekr]

1 minute ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I’d like to see core content streamlined as well. Is there a reason they wouldn’t delay their plans? 🤔

Depends on us.

The number of players drops consistently after the honeymoon period with a new update. Each time DE takes their time to do something, the forums become a cesspool of people who whine there is a content drought. The number of players decreases, the revenue decreases, and DE has to release new content to pick the numbers up.

 

So, will we behave like a group of whiny bored children and force DE to give us new content? Will we force DE to rush their new content by going through a litany of "content drought is the worse" complaints?

I bet we will.

To answer your question, yes, there is a reason. It's us.

[Genitive]

It is extremely difficult to balance new releases with fixing old content. They can't just delay new stuff on a whim, essentially what @Dhrekr said.

However, there is certainly a discussion to be had within DE whether their current release habits should be changed. They seem to have acknowledged that there is something wrong with how the game is turning out, but it is not something they can act upon just like that, no matter how hard players cry.

I would also like to see older content be fixed and expanded, but DE have their own internal plans that I assume are difficult to change. The game certainly isn't in such a critical state to scrap all the plans and rethink the releases for this year.

[bad4youLT]

Cant DElay New War because New War is here aka Scarlet Spear.

[GnarlsDarkley]

50 minutes ago, Dhrekr said:

Will we force DE to rush their new content by going through a litany of "content drought is the worse" complaints?

The problem about recent updates isn't that it's rushed. It's just like it isn't polished and they commit themselves into too narrow roads.

When they announced RJ it was like No man's sky where you could fly from Fortuna directly into space. Ok, this was utopic and should have been clear to not come like shown.

On the other hand the Liches were supposed to be Commanders on those RJ stations. Instead they were seperated from RJ and brought into the game with stupid and boring grind. 

RJ itself was another isolated boring grind, which serves absolutely no purpose (for now...maybe after New War/Duviri) But as we have seen with Fortuna and PoE you can almost pass without them. Arcanes and Operator stuff is neat, no doubt, but not necessary.

Now we have the "issue" with Star Link. What was promised as an interactive gameplay between two groups ended in being a staged event where you can get your own Codes hours later.

 

They should go back to smaller Updates and hold true to what they promise¹. Yes they need to make Updates frequently. But the Updates do have to have some quality.

 

¹I remember Scott saying with Melee 3.0 nothing will change for players who don't want a change. Spin2Win is dead. For good. (I don't want to discuss this topic here! Just to make clear my statement about DE not being honest)

edit: To break it down: What innitially was supposed to be one Update (Railjack) was split in 5 seperate Updates (Liches, Empyrean 1-3, Star Link) to "cover up" those "content droughts". Did it go well? No. Liches suck in general. RJ sucks in general. The event is a band-aid imo and Part 3 of Empyrean is still missing. Same as Orb #3 in Fortuna

Edited April 8, 2020 by GnarlsDarkley

[(PSN)poloslash18]

I like the current state of Warframe, everything from partners dropping out to bugfest updates that are upsetting the community. Why?

Because it means that DE is cornered and they are pretty good at getting back on track. The only thing they keep doing and the community always complains about is the insane grind.

I know DE_Steve will turn down his huge ambitions and be a little bit more grounded on what they can actually execute in Warframe.

 

[Aldain]

I do agree they should continue ironing out the dents that the core game has first, but I do still believe that with enough effort and time Railjack will actually amount to something solid, it does have potential despite the current outward state of clunk and (still) terrible resource economy.

Even I, a consistent hater of Kuva Liches in general also am impressed at how much effort they have been putting in to make it significantly less awful than it was when it launched.

Overall they just need to re-focus on small steps of progress and fix things in due time.

[TheGrimCorsair]

6 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I do agree they should continue ironing out the dents that the core game has first, but I do still believe that with enough effort and time Railjack will actually amount to something solid, it does have potential despite the current outward state of clunk and (still) terrible resource economy.

Even I, a consistent hater of Kuva Liches in general also am impressed at how much effort they have been putting in to make it significantly less awful than it was when it launched.

Overall they just need to re-focus on small steps of progress and fix things in due time.

There are honestly days I think the folks on this forum would try to build a boat over water and starting from the crow's nest.

[Syrethyst]

I also agree with delaying updates and focusing on fixing bugs first, mainly because there's too much content I need to work on! Seems like updates come so often, I can't keep up XD 

[Shy0]

if they're gonna fix core content, they're gonna have to do a major rework of the game's design and rewards (which i don't see happening) to keep players. the nature of this game is to encourage grinding and playtime, but at the same time, the incessant grind and sometimes unfun mechanics plus frequent nerfs to counter "exploits" after patches instead of knowing their game and anticipating problems (and instead of letting us enjoy being OP space ninjas) leads to burnout and players coming and going. i've taken a few breaks from the game myself. probably the only people who play non-stop for years are the content creators because their income depends on it.

more importantly, for future releases, they need to work out the major bugs BEFORE release so that we're not beta testing for them. nothing turns me off more than buggy, unfinished content. true, many of the old releases had glitches and occasionally game-stopping bugs, but the story bits were solo and overall the polish was decent, and most of the time, progress wasn't halted. the newer content is very team-oriented and introduces a lot of new tech and mechanics that could bug easily, so screwing over entire flotillas of players because new stuff isn't tested enough beforehand is going to look and feel worse.

one major turning point for me was the kuva liches. when that first came out, some players simply couldn't spawn any larvlings, while others had intermittent success, so there was a general perception that larvling spawns were due to rng instead of spawning every time you fulfilled the requirements. i spent 2 whole weeks trying to get a larvling spawn, and guess what? i was in the group that couldn't spawn larvlings no matter what. instead of trying to fix things and give correct information early (or perhaps even catching this bug before release), DE left it till i had wasted so much time before even saying they would fix it. even then, the rng was completely crap initially and it took them months to address the major flaws in their design. then railjack came out and we all know how that went.

the impression i'm left with is DE no longer values our time. they want playtime and Profit over everything else, and the unpolished releases are just there to get players back. true, they have been very ambitious and are always trying to create new mechanics and innovate, but the way things are implemented is often not up to the hype and the recent bad design decisions (that they have to reverse, nerf or change with subsequent patches) make me very pessimistic. the only reason i come back to play is that i'm pretty farmed up and can just get into new content without too much trouble. as it is, i can just log in and grind on new stuff. if things bug, i wait for the next hotfix and try again. if i was a newer player who had to grind and rng to get to the point where i can grind and rng some more and have buggy releases thrown my way on top of that, i'd probably have stopped playing long ago.

[Dhrekr]

1 hour ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

They should go back to smaller Updates and hold true to what they promise¹. Yes they need to make Updates frequently. But the Updates do have to have some quality.

I mean... yes, that would solve the problem of extremely large updates that come out half-baked. We all agree on that.

But this sort of small updates would only end up being "more of the same". More tilesets, more quests where you run a pre-existing mission while a recycled NPC exposits in your ears, more grind of the same king.

Look at the times when the game skyrocketed in number of players who invest time in it. What are the three largest peaks? Plains of Eidolon, Fortuna, and Sacrifice. Three huge undertakings, huge Updates that blocked everything. Before PoE, the game had been stagnant for almost two years, in terms of playerbase, despite following your recipe of "many small Updates".

 

Warframe didn't become a great game by dreaming small, delivering on small promises, and giving us a morcel per week. Massive, important updates made 2018 and 2019 into huge years for Warframe, much better than 2016 and 2017 in terms of players and revenue.

 

And this isn't DE's choice. DE didn't decide that we players would get bored of many small Updates. We decided we'd go and play something else.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

i wouldn't worry about Duviri, there's no way in hell we're getting that update this year, especially since this pandemic is forcing them to work at home, where they may not have access to things they need to make that sort of content (Voice Recording booths for example). New War is not one large update, but a string of updates over time, with Scarlet Spear being the first of many.

that said, yes, DE should try to focus more on what they have; get the Lich system to what it should be, fix and improve railjack, rework a couple of frames, etc. there's no shortage of things that need doing, and it would be nice to see them addressed, even if it's just because the devs are bored and just fix things to occupy their time. this has always been the problem though: the devs focus so much on the new shiny stuff that the old never gets looked at again, until most of the playerbase is basically screaming at them to get stuff fixed.

it's not too late for DE to turn things around and listen more. 

 

[Kaotyke]

45 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

i wouldn't worry about Duviri, there's no way in hell we're getting that update this year, especially since this pandemic is forcing them to work at home, where they may not have access to things they need to make that sort of content (Voice Recording booths for example).

Should I prepare for the cries of "CoNtEnT DrOUgHt" and completly ignore the current world state where even the Olympics was DElayed?

[AuroraSonicBoom]

25 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

Should I prepare for the cries of "CoNtEnT DrOUgHt" and completly ignore the current world state where even the Olympics was DElayed?

Well, last tennocon they said duviri was at least 2 years away, and if DE says that you can bet it'll be more something like 3 and a half years.

[ConsumerJTC]

The last content drought happened because Of Melee 3.0, proposed status changes to be brought with Khora and fortuna being planned out and built.

At least now we have the arbitration, liches and nightwave to keep us busy, even though they are in a sort of stasis.

[Bountyboy312]

On 2020-04-08 at 3:03 AM, ConsumerJTC said:

Seeing the recent strings of updates, they need to consolidate on what they already have.

The open worlds just feel like giant reusable tilesets, the liches only have two personalities are are basically bulkier heavy grineers with gatekeeping and not proper nemesises that would actually scare/threaten us and railjack is still so very broken, only grineer are a fightable faction and it is very disconnected to the main game.

And seeing what they are planning to have in store this game we could make an allusion. Such a heavy weight without consolidating on the foundations that are still made wood, it will eventually collapse on itself.

Please, delay whatever new ideas you have. Fix and expand our forgotten content that we might have.

i feel you pain but it might be too to delay

[Invincible.Jupiter]

At this point for me i really dont care because i already know it will be a buggy mess as with everything else. Plus its been in "Production" for close to two years with this level of content drought anymore delay after the mess of the last update will be a big blow to the game. And god after the future updates drop they'll  probably announce another pointless sandbox planet.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Invincible.Jupiter

[TARINunit9]

I agree, there's no way they'll be polished if they force themselves to make their 2177 deadline

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

On 2020-04-08 at 10:03 AM, ConsumerJTC said:

Seeing the recent strings of updates, they need to consolidate on what they already have.

The open worlds just feel like giant reusable tilesets, the liches only have two personalities are are basically bulkier heavy grineers with gatekeeping and not proper nemesises that would actually scare/threaten us and railjack is still so very broken, only grineer are a fightable faction and it is very disconnected to the main game.

And seeing what they are planning to have in store this game we could make an allusion. Such a heavy weight without consolidating on the foundations that are still made wood, it will eventually collapse on itself.

Please, delay whatever new ideas you have. Fix and expand our forgotten content that we might have.

I'd just be ecstatic if DE would deliver the Railjack experience that they promised us the last couple of years. An epic piece of Origin system glue that had lots of stuff to explore, lots of details, lots of conditions to be wary of, that had an integrated squad link, that had liches become powerhouses rather than people snarking at you for not grinding them faster. At least then I'd be fine with the ridiculous grind that Railjack is now.

Do I still have hopes for the Duviri paradox? .. no.. not so much anymore. This war just feels like it's going to be the Gravidus dilemma levels of grind over and over.

 

[Oreades]

TNW and Deviri should be fine. 

Most of the problem with Railjack and Scarlet is that they leveraged radically new mechanics. 

At this point other than a total and complete lack of balance Vs existing Archwing anything, Railjack is fine. What it needs is new and interesting mission types. 

And as for Scarlet Spear... that is more of a needless thing, a "that would be cool" idea that works great on paper but is overly complicated with no apparent benefit to the game. So once Scarlet Spear has run it's course I'd be strangely OK if the concept of Squadlink was abandoned completely. 

IMO they either need to go in a totally radically different direction with Squadlink (and I don't even know what that direction would be) or just cut their losses. Maybe saying Hecc it and overhauling their netcode so the game can stabally support more than 4 players in a mission.