What do people WANT out of this game?

[Xepthrichros]

21 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

I was very specific.

I want to have fun playing whatever the developers are inspired to make...I like playing things that brought joy to those that made them.

Not dictating details is all part of that process...it does not alter the course of the inspiration...I let artists be artists.

Translation: Let DE throw whatever they like at the players and hope something sticks.

Allow me to explain how fun is SUBJECTIVE.

To one person, they want warframe to be about OP powers. Nukes. Wanton destruction. Warframe is the title of the game, and warframes should be a core aspect of gameplay, with their abilities being essential. Not negated by various bosses or enemies

To another person, they want call of duty in space. They want the game to be about their guns, and want other parts of the game to be changed so their guns shine.

To yet another person, they want dynasty warriors in space. They want strong melee and strong ability play.

To yet another, they may want Dark Souls in space. Slow, tactical, involved melee, with some OP elements in terms of one-shotting attacks with small attack radius, yet feeling a constant sense of vulnerability.

To another person, it can be the side activities of fishing and looking for animals.

To someone else, it can be about space combat, and want to see the recently added Railjack expanded to its full potential.

To different person, it would be that 3 hours survival, or hitting 40 rounds of defense, being true endgame

To another, 3x3 eidolons is true endgame, and hall way shooter survival is the draggiest slog ever

To yet another, it's all about trading and earning plat.

To yet another person, it's just fashioning up and not caring about combat.

To some, it's just about playing that one warframe, getting consumed by that particular frame, identifying with it, living by it, rioting over it, advocating it to be buffed or everything else be nerfed so that particular thing, their main  becomes the bestest ever

To some others, it's all about modding for the biggest damage numbers ever in the simulacrum, with bestest riven ever and gradually forgetting what it means to play actual missions

To yet others, it's sitting in region chat all day talking nonsense to randoms.

 

DE's imagination created a space for all of the above, but at the same time, their haphazard choices of which parts of the community to listen to, sometimes destroys the spaces they created for some while exalting others. Not sure when DE will figure that out.

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Xepthrichros

[AlexMercer]

Main reason im having fun is the power fantasy so any type of nerfs or forced difficult content sucks optional difficult content is welcome tho.

[(PSN)Ragology]

I just want DE to play their game more often. Branch away from a school that isn't Zenurik, Use a melee that isn't a greatsword, and play missions with mobs higher than level 30.

 

[Mr.ToastForPresident]

1 hour ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

This game peaked when the first open world released, and ever since then, it's been a rocky downward slope to Grindfest City: population, almost everyone now that Scarlet Spear is console-certified.

Nah man, Warframe peaked during The Second Dream. Ever since then, DE has been chasing behind the shadow of what the second dream gave us, trying at every notion to one up what they created. What The Second Dream gave us was incredible, an expansion to the lore and an introduction to a new gameplay system. For the first time, it felt like Warframe has finally found its footing and was finally about to take a giant leap into a new direction for the game. Even then though, the cracks were showing. The focus system was very grindy and pretty unbalanced, and the launch was pretty buggy even back then.

I say, instead of focusing on what the community wants, focus on whatever the developer wants and finds as fun. It is their game after all, and we just play whatever they get to make. Focus on making a game that they are proud of making, then use the community to refine what they have made, rather than seeking the community on what to make. There are too many opinions out there to make "the community" a reliable source to build the game off of.

As for me, I would rather see a refinement of the combat system in order to make the moment to moment gameplay feel enjoyable. There needs to be a feel for a better flow in the combat, and maybe integrate the movement system within the flow of combat. Then, take a look at the enemies and how they are designed. How would the enemies interact with this new system, and then move onto to the modding system. Take a good look at what is there, then refine it so that it has more potential to be expanded on. That way, even if there may be no more content to be made, the general gameplay just keeps you coming back to play over and over again.

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

12 minutes ago, Xepthrichros said:

DE's imagination created a space for all of the above, but at the same time, their haphazard choices of which parts of the community to listen to, sometimes destroys the spaces they created for some while exalting others. Not sure when DE will figure that out.

What I've learned from past uprisings is that the best way to get DE to figure out something is to literally burn down every asset of Warframe-related social media. Only then will the devs start paying attention. 

But the fact that we need to draw attention to them this way shouldn't even have to be a factor in the first place.

[844448]

46 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

I... wasn't talking about him being easy. Which, yes, he was after all that, but it's besides the point.

I was talking about the lengths DE had to go to just to make him significant enough to not get blinked out of existence in a nanosecond flat.

Armor and health is not really a problem to me, the only thing that I see as a problem to the community is the immunity to status and abilities which can be justified through his background story for having armor strong enough to resist or being immune. My experience in public squad still took some time even with 3 rhinos and eidolon gear with me and I out damaged them with nezha and stradavar so that much armor and health is what you need to have an enemy that isn't killed in nanosecond flat and can be a base stat for future bullet sponge (read : boss)

[Vahenir]

Things i really want to see:

• The completion of railjack stuff, actually connecting the game together in some manner other than dropping random gear items. I want to be able to use the railjack to go from planet to planet and use it as a base to launch ground missions and whatnot. If possible turn the entire solar system into a large railjack open world. Naturally add more mission types for railjack as well. Definitely add something with a lot less combat than the current missions. Say something like raiding some asteroid base. It has some defenders that you need to get past/kill but not enough to be constantly shooting for 10 minutes. Say something like a "boss" tier crew ship you have to kill. It may just be that ship and perhaps 10 fighters. Give it abilities that need to be evaded and countered before you can bring down its shields/armor to board it or blow it up with the big gun.
• Expansion of the open worlds. More mission types. Actual story quests to be found out in the world. Something that feels more meaningful than a group of 4 random objectives. So for an example you may find some dead solaris on the orb vallis, you scan them and find out that they were carrying some valuable intel. So the next step of the quest is to track down the corpus that took it from them, like with floof hunting. You then find them somewhere, kill them and retrieve the intel, get mission reward when you turn that intel in to the solaris. At the very least a lot more objective types should be added to both open worlds.
• A proper stealth mission type where you actually have to sneak through the whole thing rather than just rush for the terminals in a spy mission. Like for instance a stealth assassination mission where you have to get to the target, kill it and get out without being seen at all. Add in some stuff that can scan through invisibility to avoid making them too easy with a proper stealth frame and it should be interesting. Making use of the mobility we have should be required for sure.
• And as a final one ill say "RP stuff" so things like less laggy dojos. Seating. Walking toggle etc and so on. Basically things to let people play their characters together and make their own stories. The ultimate version of this could be something like a mission creator like the foundry in star trek online or neverwinter, let people create.

[DrBorris]

2 hours ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

Balance or power fantasy?

THESE TWO THINGS AREN'T MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE

"Balance" doesn't mean something is hard, easy, it just means that everything is similar. If a game is a good power fantasy it is BALANCED so it is consistently a power fantasy. You need to balance a power fantasy so that different avenues of expressing your power are all fulfilling. It is literally the exact same thing as balancing a hard game by making sure that no content can be cheesed. Making something less powerful (nerf) does not inherently mean you are breaking the power fantasy. If you "nerf" something so it deals less damage, but it still one-shots enemies, how is that having any impact on your power fantasy?

The "no nerf, only buff" mentality is just as deadly to a power fantasy as it is to any other type of game.

 

I know this isn't the point of your post, but good lord I am sick and tired of people saying that balance doesn't exist in a power fantasy.

[George_PPS]

2 hours ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

You have something good going: a base. People like the base. You build on top of the base with stuff that fits the base perfectly. Then you decide, "you know what? I'm going to do something completely different, something out-of-the-blue, and hopefully, the players will enjoy it". And then, you do something completely different. Despite a buggy start, you refine it, and you not only get positive reception, but you also get an influx of new users thanks to doing something different BETTER than someone else whose entire premise was on that different thing but they failed to deliver on it.

"Warframe is the X killer, Warframe is the free and better version of Y, etc."

But then, something changes. Now that you know that doing stuff differently yields tremendous positive reception, you forget about the base of the game, and start loading something new on top of it every three months. Spaceships, a second open world, a nemesis system that isn't even a nemesis system, Endgame #1, Endgame #2, Endgame #2.5,

Great points. I feel that Both PoE and Fortuna were on top of the base; they are true expansions of successful formulas. Why can’t DE do the same? Do what works. Instead, DE wasted a ton of resources to destroy and nerf this game, the base and the core of it. DE keeps taking out what works for players and adds what’s not working so well. That’s why we are seeing a lot of critical opinions of many players who are literally screaming at DE yet DE doesn’t care. 

[(XBOX)AksuNaksu99]

I want more interesting themed warframes, new lore, open worlds and new operator abilities. These events are making Warframe Grindfest game but i don´t mind this grinding.

[Loza03]

18 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Armor and health is not really a problem to me, the only thing that I see as a problem to the community is the immunity to status and abilities which can be justified through his background story for having armor strong enough to resist or being immune. My experience in public squad still took some time even with 3 rhinos and eidolon gear with me and I out damaged them with nezha and stradavar so that much armor and health is what you need to have an enemy that isn't killed in nanosecond flat and can be a base stat for future bullet sponge (read : boss)

Are you even reading what I wrote? Seriously, you picked out a single line out of context and are trying to argue it like that somehow disproves my point that OP stuff harms Warframe in the long run

Wolf was a single example of what DE has to do to make any content feel significant or interesting. I really don't care about any lore justifications, or your individual performance against him when he was doing his thing. The point was that, with how non-interactive and OP some abilities allow the player to become, DE cannot make interesting content, because they have to blanket-disable the vast majority of mechanics any other game would use to add choice and variety, because many of those mechanics have such cheese baked into them that, should they be enabled to try give players more choice, the enemy will invariably wind up either disabled or dead with as little engagement from the player as any other random Goomba.

[Teljaxx]

I want this game to be more engaging that just holding the go button until you win over and over again. I want DE to climb out of the endless abyss of powercreep they dove headlong into. I want interesting enemies that don't evaporate before they even get a chance to be interesting. I want this game to have any semblance of balance, because that is necessary for all these other things.

And, most importantly: I want Warframe to be a game that knows what it is. Once upon a time, it actually felt like DE had a master plan for this game. Everything fit together properly, and nothing was superfluous. It was nicely focused, and was just Warframe, pure and simple. But that didn't last long, and now they have made so many crazy changes and additions that the game no longer feels anything like it used to. It doesn't feel like Warframe anymore because it lost its focus. Its just a blurry blob of crazy experiments at this point, not a cohesive game.

So what does DE want Warframe to be? Do they want it to be an epic story driven masterpiece, or an endless grinding simulator? Do they want it to be a high speed 3rd person shooter, or a crew based space sim? Do they want huge open maps, or smaller, more controlled environments? They need to choose, otherwise the game ends up being a mess. They clearly don't have the resources to maintain all these different things while also adding new stuff, so they should have kept things simple. But as it is, the game tries to do too much with way too little.

Most of my favorite games are simple. They knew what they wanted to do, and they did it. No fancy bells and whistles that just end up getting in the way, and no time wasted on flashy but ultimately useless gimmicks. But, at this point, Warframe is almost nothing but extraneous features. Meanwhile, Warframe has so many bells and whistles that you can't even tell whats under them anymore.

Its fine to listen to your players and add some of their ideas to your game sometimes. But you still need to maintain the lead yourself, because you need to make sure your game doesn't lose its identity. I have seen other games try this "designed by community" style, and all it ever ends up doing is making the whole game perfectly generic. It has no proper identity, because it tries to be everything at the same time. You also need to know your limits and not add anything you aren't capable of dealing with. Either way, if you add too much random stuff, none of it shines through, and it all blends together into a nice bland grey.

But, that's also why I don't expect any of this to ever actually happen. Grey goes with everything, so Warframe appeals to everyone in some way. And that's exactly what DE wants. They want as many people playing as they can get. The more focused a game is, the smaller its audience will be. And F2P games can't survive without a massive audience. So DE really need Warframe to be bland and generic to get that lowest common denominator money.

[SnowStalker_Prime]

Reading through comments here, listening to other players, and even the partners I see several things: 1. Most of us relatively have the same gripes about the game as others. 2. More nitty gritty aspects are a bit more nuanced and subjective (as @Xepthrichros) points out above. And, these are all great reasons to play the game. 3. There seems to be a (growing) disconnect between DE and the player base that has not always been there. 

There are really cool aspects to the game and really fun parts to the game however, as you point out OP, something changes the further away you get from that base. 

Personally (and again, this is just me) I agree with many sentiments echoed here. I think what kind of started killing things for me is that during the main quests are done and you finish all the cinematics, everything feels like a grind for grind sake and that just isn't fun. Why spend thousands of credits and thousands of endo to rank mods to capacity when you can do just fine melting enemies with less? There is no need to do marathon runs. DE keeps adding resources and grind to events that are specific to that event and nothing else. Ashisogi Tenno recently made a great video (and echoed it with Rhaetalius) about how DE can better manage resources. You have DE that rushes out broken and unfinished content and asks us to take our time with it (knowing we probably won't) but it's basically a stopgap.

Bringing this back to your question of what do I want? communication, I'd like DE to take a breath, I'd like players to take a breath, I'd like more polish on the game before we add new things. I'd maybe say, DE should scale the game back a bit. clean up some stuff and then move forward. Currently there are so many things DE can do with what we have, we don't need to have new stuff thrown at us necessarily. 

I dunno, there is all so much and it feels like we shout into an echo chamber sometimes. Here's hoping we all find the love in the game again

[Teljaxx]

31 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

THESE TWO THINGS AREN'T MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE

"Balance" doesn't mean something is hard, easy, it just means that everything is similar. If a game is a good power fantasy it is BALANCED so it is consistently a power fantasy. You need to balance a power fantasy so that different avenues of expressing your power are all fulfilling. It is literally the exact same thing as balancing a hard game by making sure that no content can be cheesed. Making something less powerful (nerf) does not inherently mean you are breaking the power fantasy. If you "nerf" something so it deals less damage, but it still one-shots enemies, how is that having any impact on your power fantasy?

The "no nerf, only buff" mentality is just as deadly to a power fantasy as it is to any other type of game.

 

I know this isn't the point of your post, but good lord I am sick and tired of people saying that balance doesn't exist in a power fantasy.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Dead Cells is a perfect example of this. That game makes you feel like you are super good at it, even when you aren't. From the moment you start playing, it lets you feel like a super badass. But that game can also be super hard. And the entire reason it can be both is because it is properly balanced.

And, personally, I think soulslike games are some of the best power fantasy games out there. The fact that they are so unforgiving makes it so much more satisfying when you get good at them. Overcoming big challenges makes you feel more powerful than simply being unstoppable from beginning to end. Having something to compare your strength to is important.

This is also why most people don't play Doom in godmode all the time. It gets boring really fast because the is no challenge whatsoever. Its also horribly unbalanced, because the game isn't really intended to be played that way.

And think about this: Who is more powerful? A kid burning ants with a magnifying glass? Or a kid killing a giant warrior with nothing but a sling? And, which one would you rather play as in a game?

[Flyshlee]

Quality

[Tinklzs]

Some of these I've said before, but in no particular order...

 

I'd like old content to get a facelift, since they re-use those assets/mechanics for most future content, yes including railjack. 

Nightwave - just have it reset every 30 ranks, each time removing cosmetics and putting in potatoes or extra credits instead. We would have 2 extra umbra forma by now if they'd kept their promise(s) of releasing nightwave. I'm fine if it takes them longer, I'm NOT fine with no way of getting Umbra Forma - even if it's only nightwave (which I think is completely fair, to slow power creep), we should be able to get 6 or so per year, right now that isn't looking likely. 

I'd like frames that don't have a quest to get one, especially open world frames (I've said many times that hildryn/garuda/baruuk could have their own story on how they changed parts of Fortuna's landscape while defending the blueprints/codes to fight the orbs). 

I'd like frames that need one or two abilities touched up/reworked would get that, more streamline with some frames that have many abilities (like titania's tribune, should be able to hold it and cast all 4 for a 50% markup on energy cost). 

Kuva Liches - scaling rewards 400 endo becomes 600, 15-80 endo rewards on mars become 400-600 etc. (talking mission rewards here). One lith relic becomes two. KL's get tied into invasions where you can fight them there why they try conquest to eventually end up in space and you can end it with a RJ boarding mission.

Kuva Weapons - Not requiring 5 forma to get MR. This also goes for the future corpus weapons too (and their respective liches with murmur grind, I want to do the mission for the mission not for murmurs to kill a guy in a 1-2 min fight to then do it again for a few hours, that isn't fun DE).

Railjack - more than one mission type, Squad AI, so us solo players can participate - less grind and far less RNG on what facilitates a 'good' part. Remove bullet time on most archwing weapons, but add one or two weapons with it and give them increase damage (so it's a skill based weapon which you get rewarded for with more damage), that way those who can't aim ahead on stuff can still play in archwing and enjoy the content too. Also, buff the other 3 archwings to be in the ballpark of Amesha's rein. 

 

Fortuna/Plains - scaling rewards (have a new type of bounty that goes "indefinitely" until the player leaves that open world.

Eidolons - not being timegated - Scarlet Spear has greatly diminished the value of arcanes. Also, it isn't fun waiting when you want to play content (we aren't here to idle, DE). So remove the time-gate on Eidolons.

The Void - I think there should always be 4 fissures active in the void, it is the void after all - why can it infect random nodes in the starchart but not be infected itself?

MOT - Should have scaling rewards, since it's technically the hardest node on the starchart, radiant relics, 600 endo, etc. Should be a nice reward spot for the ramped up difficulty.

Arbitrations - Perhaps once in a blue moon be able to choose what frame/weapon gets a boost? I know in writing this, technically it undermines one of the 'goals' of arbitrations, which is to use things other than meta, but sometimes I'd like to use a combo that I get one or the other on, but not both. Just an idea.

Clean up loot drops (again), stalker, G3, Zanuka, etc. shouldn't be dropping common stuff, their signature items only would be far more fair. 

Assassin type enemies (Stalker, G3, Zanuka) getting a buff or slight rework to make them a threat (scaling with host would be a nice touch).  

That's all I can think of off the top of my head at the moment.

 

 

 

[-skimmer-]

2 hours ago, (PS4)chubbslawson said:

Trust. I want to be able to trust de. I don’t like putting time and effort into something, getting it how I like it,then having them come along saying they screwed that up it has to be changed. Near as I can tell they screw up everything. I lost all trust in them

Most developers when faced with screw ups rather say its intended behavior and let it burn.

DE being able to rework entire systems so fast I always saw as positive.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

A Revenant rework.

[Kaotyke]

To build a house with materials gathered from the world, make a pen, make a village, make a door to a dimension of fire and sulfur. Find a portal that will take me to fight the Ender Chroma.

And chickens. Lots of chickens as bodyguards.

[VanFanel1980mx]

I want my power fantasy where I don't need to keep re-leveling on missions I get bored of only to be able to play them on missions I want to play.

[kevoisvevo]

Lore, sustainability of game modes, lesser grind for rewards, more bosses, various events and storylines. I could give a rats ass about railjack and kuva lich. Just give something that tries to tie everything up. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

8 hours ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

Because the developers don't know what they want for this game, neither does the community. And because the community doesn't know what it wants for this game, neither will the developers.

You seem very confident that this fractured community is the direction provider for DE’s vision, instead of being minor nudges 🤔 (I could be misinterpreting something). Were we ever unified?

I’m actually not certain; Did we ask for Railjack, Liches, Fortuna, or Squad Link? Before they revealed them, did we even think about them coming into existence? From my perspective it feels like DE dreamed them up after seeing what others were doing (or just dreamed them up on the spot) and going “That looks cool, this could fit within Warframe and be part of its evolution”, but I’d love to know what the inspiration posts/feedback from the community were if those were actually used instead.

Edited April 9, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I just want them to remember to look at older stuff that's already in-game every so often. there's a LOT that hasn't been touched in literal years: I did an invasion again recently, and it's still the same tilesets: it doesn't feel like these almighty factions of Corpus and Grineer are clashing, there's no space battles going on outside, there's no transmissions from the faction we sided with.. invasions just feel really lackluster. and while that's not the most pressing of issues to deal with, it's the one I most recently remember that made me think "wish they'd rework some of this, it would look awesome with an update.".

another thing is dual-wielding for swords/daggers/machetes etc, like they said we'd get after melee 3.0. again, it's not urgent, but it would be nice to know that DE hasn't totally forgotten about these things and eventually do something about them. little things like this really do add up. those are two things I'd like personally; I'm sure the rest of you have your own (probably long) list of things you'd genuinely love to see reworked after such a long period of time.

[Xkorpitron]

7 hours ago, o0Despair0o said:

Because we expected an open "world", not a open "backyard sandpit".

We've lived our entire Tenno life's in Grindfest City, but only with PoE did it evolve into Omega-Grind City.

Fun. I want to get fun. Having to play work 8 hours a day for weeks so that I can afford mediocre gear that gets boring after 20 minutes is not fun.

Well then based on ur opinion i think it's time to take a break then...or maybe quit? if you going to reply like that then.

[Jarriaga]

3 hours ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

Because the developers don't know what they want for this game, neither does the community. And because the community doesn't know what it wants for this game, neither will the developers.

I do know what I want, how, and why. I'll go point by point:

3 hours ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

• More content, or fix the base?

Fix the base. 

How? By correcting deficiencies between game mode difficulty, rewards, big-picture connectivity (Game-mode wise), interactivity, bugs, and time investment expectations. Separate new player content and rewards from veteran player content and rewards.

Why? Introducing game modes or content that get forgotten (Sanctuary Onslaught) with no regards to how much you have progressed already because everything is designed around star chart levels while removing any difficulty spike (Original Arbitrations / First week Fortuna) while at the same time getting progressively less useful or less important rewards that lose value upon the next content island that is not connected to the rest of the game and sprinkled with bugs just sours the experience.

DE want accessibility for newer players at the expense of older players. That's why on every new content island, new resources are introduced so everyone is back to zero, negating what you have worked towards because none of that is useful any more. Why do star chart resources have little to no use in PoE, Fortuna and RJ? Why is there no resource "conversion" system so I can transform old resources into new resources even if not as efficiently as by playing the new island directly? Why can't the new resources be dropped by star chart enemies?

Why do you get the same rewards of rotation 4 at rotation 40? What reason is there for me to not leave at rotation 4 beyond personal satisfaction? Do enemies start dropping additional resources or mods that don't drop prior to that point? No. So not only do you get content islands because of that, but the time you had played before might as well not have existed, because it only served for the previous content island rather than the game as a cohesive package.

3 hours ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

• Balance or power fantasy?

Balance.

How? Game-wide revisions to game mechanics, systems, and abilities to bring as much as possible up to par. Buff where needed, nerf where needed, but give priority to buffs over nerfs, and when nerfing, try first giing "drawbacks" before going for hard stat nerfs, and if you have to go for stat nerfs or removals, give something else in return. In that order.

Enemy revisions need to be made as well in order to add more anti-WF and anti-cheese enemies that work as "indirect nerfs" or counters that negate the need to nerf the core frame or ability.

Why? There is no choice when X is so much better than Y that Y might as well not exist because X does everything Y does plus more. Not only that, but being too powerful makes the game too easy, and in turn developers could consider making reward grinding absurdly long in an effort to compensate a lack of difficulty, making it a game of time rather than skill.  

Yes, this is a horde shooter and efficiency is valued. But this leads to a high number of people latching on to the same strategies, builds, frames and weapons and in turn increasing the chances of a nerf to actual core stats. Catchmoon is an example of this. The gun was too powerful, too easy to use, too efficient and had little to no drawbacks. This resulted in a very large number of people using it and it got nerfed. I expect the same thing will happen to the Kuva Nukor soon, and for the exact same reasons: Too much gain for little to no player investment (In the context of how the weapon performs, not how you obtain it).

That could at least be partially alleviated if DE broadened weapon MR requirements even more. MR weapon requirements capping at MR16 still mean a lot of people. If Catchmoon had required MR26 for example, while the number of MR26 players using it would have been tremendously high, the number of total people using it would not have been 50%, which is an absurd number. This in turn also incentives player progression all the way to the top instead of hitting a "soft wall" at MR16 since nothing else matters past that point and it just becomes QoL. DE could then not nerf very high MR weapons because of the level of investment needed to get them and the low number of total players using them. They could also then design content in consideration of a high MR player having access to said weapons. 

The problem here is that DE would need to make a financial compromise in order for this to happen since they'd need remove the option to buy high MR weapons with plat, which is something I don't think they'll ever do. Plat sales are too important, so they try to give as much access as possible to those willing to pay at the expense of high level content.

This expands to other sections of the game as well. Why should I pick Unairu over Zenurik? What do I lose by using Zenurik vs Unaitu? Is what you lose a fair compromise over what Zenurik gives you, with is infinite energy and heavy attack efficiency? So the key here is to review both, and give reasons to use both in normal, general gameplay rather than hyper-niche and situation-specific builds. Make me feel like I'm missing n Unairu when choosing Zenurik. If you can't (Because nothing can compete with infinite energy), then give a large drawback to Zenurik such as being unable to equip Arcanes while using Zenurik (For example), or hard stat nerfs.

Nerfs can also be indirect as well in order to avoid having to change core stats. For example? Introduce enemies that can not be killed with guns or abilities. They only take melee damage (An indirect nerf to Saryn and Mesa without affecting Excalibur for example). Another example would be to add game-mode specific enemies that work as mini-bosses or high-priority targets in order to increase your odds of failing the mission. Based on Demolysts, you could add an enemy that can INSTANTLY capture Interception towers, and enemy that can destroy Survival life support capsules, and so on.   

3 hours ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

• Are nerfs unnecessary or are they meant to "fix" ""exploits""?

Nerfs an unnecessary in order to fix exploits because a balanced game has little to no exploits.

Why? Nerfs should only be done for with the intent of balancing rather than stopping people from doing something. Yes, nerfs WILL stop some people from doing something, but it's purpose is not to do so vs. an "exploit fix" because the nerf is a long-term fix in response to long-time stats while the exploit fix is a short-term fix often in direct response to new content.

There's also the distinction between an ability that needs a nerf vs. an exploit in that an exploit often requires very specific circumstances and configurations in order to be taken advantage of and are normally unable to be controlled or triggered unless actively pushing for its activation, while an ability/weapon that needs a nerf is just based on stats. 

For example? DE disappointed me a lot with the Venari fiasco. Yes, they are reverting it. But that doesn't change that they were going to kill off the ability by labeling it an bug or exploit because of how it was interacting with Scarlet Spear despite even though that's what the ability did out of the gate even with no mods equipped. They were going to make a permanent change due to a temporary event. That was very dishonest of them, and turning it back on doesn't change the fact that they still arrive at said conclusion and decision to begin with. Now they nerfed Limbo for the same reason.

The problem here is DE's vested interest in maintaining a high level of grind for a large time investment metric because of low difficulty. This results in those hasty changes, and regardless of their intention, the optics on it don't look good when doing so in the middle of a temporary event. Had they done so in an isolated change not tied to new content some time after the event, then reception would be different.

They should stop doing that.  

3 hours ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

• Which members of the community deserve to be listened to the most?

Those who have both praised and criticized DE in measured balance.

Why? White knights can't see flaws. Toxic players will never accept nerfs. Those with measured opinions that can point out both the good and the bad should be given more weight.

Alternatively, no players; partners only. Partners should be more than mouthpieces. If they can rise in popularity and get a following with a fanbase that like the way they see things and are then accepted as partners by DE, then their opinions on the game should have more weight as they themselves already represent their fanbase's interests.

3 hours ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

• Does any of this have to do with being partially owned by Chinese mega-corps?

I have no way to prove that, but I do believe so. DE's recent monetization choices, grind walls, and their decision to prioritize nerfs during a time-limited event point towards some business metrics they need to keep on track.

3 hours ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

• How would the developers be able to make amends to the community who liked the base?

Off the top of my head?

- Stop abandoning content that is half-baked and unbalanced because you need to work on the next big thing. Don't do the next big thing until most of the community is happy with the old thing. Not don't just leave it in what you (DE) deem to be as an acceptable or "good enough" state, but a good or great state as per the ratio of praise vs. criticism for said content in the community. Where is the 3rd Orb Mother? Where's Nef's involvement in Fortuna past the initial quest? What's L. Duck's connection to the Quills since she mentioned that there's always an agenda? What's the purpose of the Tenno morality compass outside some quests? Why does ESO have 1% rewards after 20 minutes?

- Stop pulling Watch Dogs and Anthems on us. Stop the overly-ambitious and unrealistic Tennocon demos. Don't present to us what can't be ultimately achieved as 90% envisioned due to technological, logistical, or business reasons. You are the ones setting us up for disappointment otherwise. Just because you are honest months later by admitting it was just a demo doesn't negate that you chose to present us an unrealistic vision rather than a grounded one.

- Stop posting "we are paying attention/monitoring your feedback" in dev workshop threads when you have little to no intention of actually acting on said feedback even if it means delaying content. I am still upset about Arbitrations phase 2 and your decision to ignore the complaints about the revival system being there, and the additional drop table pollution. Why even have a store that uses Vitus when half the items are not available there? I am also upset about the fact you flat-out tried to push highly rejected parts of damage 2.5 once again 2 years later.

- Don't show or mention new content that can't be realistically delivered within 6 months. If you need to hold on to announcements and keep them secret for a long time then so be it.

- Respect your own words and promises. DE said Ephemera were meant to be something you earned through skill. Yet some of them are 1% drop chance random rewards, some of them are an actual market thanks to Lich trading, and some were flat-out sold for hard cash like the Wukong Prime one. The optics on this behavior after the initial words just indicate that their profits are a priority. Yes, they are a company and they need to keep the lights on and live a good life. No, that doesn't mean nickle and dime against their own word.

- Don't make permanent changes to stats or game mechanics during temporary events in favor of said temporary events.

- Stop the content islands and connect the game. Make star chart resources important in RJ/PoW/Fortuna, and make RJ/PoW/Fortuna resources available in star chart after meeting some conditions like 2 full C rotations or something.

- On the note of Connecting the game, have Liches spawn in OV, PoE, and RJ missions with a platoon of thrall enemies with their own galleons as shown in Tennocon (Again, stop pulling Watch Dogs and Anthems).

- Have air support charges summon your RJ to OV/PoE if built, and allow us to board and it in the middle of open world missions. This in turn summons enemy ships for combat and unlocks/adds additional or alternative mission objectives to make the missions more dynamic. Also, if we are on our Railjacks in OV/PoE and there's no active mission, allow us to select star chart missions from the RJ and show an animation of you starting the mission from the RJ instead of the Landing Craft. Yes, this is nothing more than an illusion, but it is an illusion that results in the feeling of everything being connected. 

- Add a resource recycling or resource conversion feature so we don't feel like we are forced to grind from zero when there's a new content island. You could make conversion expensive so that also helps to control having 10 million Nano Spores and nothing to do with them.

- Make changes that reduce plat sales but make player investments more meaningful in order to decrease "pay to win" optics. For example? Make Rivens untradable if they have been rolled (And make them spawn with terrible stats to minimize unrolled God riven trading), and make it so you can't buy some weapons with plat and must be unlocked.

- Design content with MR locks in order to tailor the game experience towards different levels of difficulty, progression, and rewards. These modes start at MR16, then 20, then 24, then 28, then 30 in consideration of the weapons and gear you expect us to have. These modes offer progressively better rewards even if they can be considered game-breaking such as an item that lets you permanently fuse an augment to a frame or weapon (Clearing the mod slot). In other words, creating an end-game of making your main frame and weapon as powerful as possible rather than just collecting Nano Spores with no use.  

- Increase Kuva rewards in all Kuva modes to x2 at base. Rivens will be your personal update path that will require several rolls rather than something you try to buy (If you can only trade unrolled rivens).

- Spread out more weapons around more MR ranks all the way to 29. The higher the MR requirement, the less likely it is to be on your nerf consideration lists despite being very efficient at killing because they are meant to be as strong as possible and are meant to be worthwhile rewards for increasing your MR rank. This is only possible if you can't buy those weapons or trade them for plat.

- Add value to missions that offer repeated rewards. Mods and weapons that you already own mean no reward at all on their own since their only other use is to sell them to other players, which effectively removes them from your inventory rather getting direct use, and you can't even do that if no one else wants it. Taking a hint from Liches, add a feature in which you can improve a weapon or mod's stats (Beyond endo max rank) by means of repeated acquisition.

- Rework the Lich system to make it closer to what we were originally shown and more rewarding:

To make it closer to what was originally shown:

1) Make it so the Lich "dies" after a successful Parazon stab. Instead of just teleporting out of the game mission, animate the Lich so it falls to the ground in pain like it died, but it then starts floating and glowing and comes back to life. Then it leaves. This is nothing more than a visual illusion with no change with regards to gameplay, but it's an illusion that greatly enhances the feeling of the Lich being an actual lich that keeps coming back after being killed over and over. It also makes it so all current dialog and interactions pointing towards continuous fights make sense and the Lich feels closer to the initial design intent.

2) Progressively change the Lich's appearance based on the number of times they've "died". Start lightly armored, then start replacing limbs with mechanical parts and/or adding more armor and additional face scars. Again, an illusion, but one that helps sell the idea of they coming back from the dead and giving more weight to comments such as "you tore me limb from limb". 

3) Have the Lich's influence and rank increased by ignoring them for too long. 1 rank every 10 days without a single fight is fair. Yes, this punishes players that take breaks with an active Lich, but as shown in the reveal, that happens precisely because the Lich is expanding unchecked. This makes the experience feel more alive, with things happening or not happening because you were or were not there to make a difference in the Sol system.

4) Have the Lich grow additional ranks past 5. At 5 they still don't feel like a big threat.

5) If the Lich is at max rank over Rank 5 (Say, Rank 10) and you have all the murmurs and requiem mods unlocked, a dedicated optional mission is unlocked to fight the Lich. These missions are on wide-area maps such as the PoE, Orb Valis, or Veil Proxima (To Help improve the sense of connection with the rest of the game). If you decide to take this optional mission to hunt down your Lich this way instead of waiting for it to spawn in the Star Chart, the requiem mod order doesn't matter (Guaranteed kill), but the Lich gets additional stat buffs that can only be disabled by completing other in-mission objectives in the wide-area map. This alternative final fight ties to the improved reward system as it affects weapon bonus damage, ephemera chance (If it didn't have one before), and bonus stats if converted.

6) Have a counter show for how long (How many days) your current Lich has been alive. This does nothing else beyond enhancing the illusion of an long and old conflict with bad blood.

Making Lich farming more rewarding and less grindy, improving the overall experience:

1) Add a resource recovery multiplier based on the rank of your Lich (1x-10x) at the time you deal the final blow and kill them for good.

2) The Lich changes weapons after "dying". Weapon changes follow a set rotation but start at different points for different players. The weapon type doesn't change if you shoot down your Lich to down it 3 times but don't attempt to Parazon it (So you can "lock" the weapon type this way). The Lich won't change weapons either if it kills you. The element of the weapon changes based on the last WF used to fight the Lich regardless of it killing you, dying, or just leaving. This is allows you to change your mind mid-way in both weapon type and weapon element and there's no need to tie yourself to the entire process of killing several Larvings over and over with a specific WF until you get the weapon you want. This also gives you a reason to hold-off on killing your Lich even if you know the Requiem that will kill it until you get the weapon you'd like. This also gives more importance to farming thralls as you may now want to avoid trying to kill your Lich so it won't roll the weapon. 

3) Have both you and the Lich be affected in different thematic ways depending on which mission you decide to farm thralls on. For example, thrall spy has a chance to reveal the order in which a Requiem mod goes. Disruption recovers partially stolen resources. Interception allows you to "safeguard" a node that has not been conquered and keeps it clean (No resource loss) even if the rest of the planet is conquered. And so on. This gives different reasons for choosing thrall missions based secondary objectives that go beyond just "collect thralls".

4) Beyond the initial element of your Lich being tied to your WF at the time of creation, the Lich's abilities/element change again if the Lich kills you, based on the WF you were using at that time. This circles back to the original design intent of having the Lich "steal your abilities" and makes Lich fights a lot more dynamic in consideration of not tying the element of the weapon itself to the element of the Lich. This means you could end-up having to fight an ice Lich that uses a fire Kuva Nukor.

5) The weapon's extra damage bonus is tied to the Lich on creation even if it changes weapons or elements. Same for the Ephemera. However, if you decide to kill the Lich via the optional harder wide-area mission instead of waiting for it to spawn in the Star Chart, the weapon gets an additional +10% bonus, and if the Lich did not have an Ephemera, it gets a 20% change to generate one at death. If you decide to Convert the Lich in this mission, it gains additional stats.

6) If you kill a Lich via the optional final showdown mission with the help of a squad, team members get 15% of the resources you got (Their own share, not extracted from your reward). Mods and parts excluded.

7) Return the Lich's ability to 1-hit grab kill you, but don't make it instant. Instead, on a failed Parazon stab, a power struggle quick time event or power struggle ensures. If you win, you break away. If you fail, you die. Also, the Lich will try to grab and kill you this way on a successful Rank 5+ final stab, because it will try to fight for its life. 

8 ) Drop the number of murmurs to farm to 30/45/60.

9) Have "thrall squads" able to spawn in any non-void, non-controlled star chart mission so it does feel like they are invading and expanding, and in turn make the experience feel more connected to the rest of the game.

10) Add a 3rd option when killing your Lich for good so the system retains long-term evergreen value even after all weapons are farmed: Extract the Lich's Kuva core for a Kuva battery in your ship. This battery can be used once per day to give you 100 Kuva. The amount increases with each Lich Kuva core added (No cap). Extracting a Kuva battery from a Lich sacrifices all stolen loot, mods and parts. You also forgo that Lich's weapon/ephemera, and the Lich is not converted either. Just gone. You are trading everything that Lich took from you in pursuit of Kuva.

11) Ability to generate a Lich now requires clearing Chains of Harrow and engaging in at least 5 Kuva Siphon/Kuva Flood missions. This is because:

- Based on the Queen's unmeasured anger when destroying her Kuva Siphons, the initial cinematic when the Queen infects the Kuva larving, and the Kuva Larving themselves being announced by Kuva Guardians (Which only show up in Kuva-related missions), it seems clear that the Queen sent the Lich after you in a desperate attempt to get revenge on you for destroying her Siphons, so it makes sense that you have to interact with a few Kuva Siphon/Flood missions in order to unlock this part of the game. Your actions have consequences.  

- You can now get rid of a Lich at any time by paying (10,000 Kuva + 1 Argon Crystal + 100 Ducats) x the rank of your Lich at Palladino. Since there is nothing in the game pointing towards Palladino's residence at Iron Wake prior to CoH, having the quest as a requirement ties to the Lich-be-gone system.

12) Once the ability to generate Kuva Liches is unlocked, Kuva Larvings will now spawn exclusively every 3 consecutive Kuva Siphon/Flood missions, similar to invasions. The larving becomes a Lich on the spot if killed with an ability. If killed by a weapon, it is downed and can be left to bleed out without generating a Lich, and it no longer shows the initial weapon. This is because the weapon roll mechanic negates the necessity to kill several larvings to get the weapon you want, the Larving will not spawn at all if you take a 1 mission break after 2 Siphons/Floods, the Larving itself is announced by a Kuva Guardian (Which is exclusive to Kuva missions) and the Lich is something you pretty much brought down upon yourself for indiscriminate Grineer killing and interrupting the Queen's operations, so you get less control Lich creation process if the Larving is already there unless you tone down the bloodlust.

See? People have ideas for improving the game and having a better experience. Would DE listen? Would they compromise their business metrics for the sake of a pleasant gaming experience?   

3 hours ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

• Is having more content necessarily a good thing?

No. It's not about the existence of content per se, but rather if said new content is good or bad.

3 hours ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

• Is it fair to compare what we have now, and what we had 6-7 years ago, and call it an "improvement"?

Yes. Otherwise you forget your roots and what got people to support you to begin with.