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(PS4)LeBlingKing

What do people WANT out of this game?

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

I was very specific.

I want to have fun playing whatever the developers are inspired to make...I like playing things that brought joy to those that made them.

Not dictating details is all part of that process...it does not alter the course of the inspiration...I let artists be artists.

Translation: Let DE throw whatever they like at the players and hope something sticks.

Allow me to explain how fun is SUBJECTIVE.

To one person, they want warframe to be about OP powers. Nukes. Wanton destruction. Warframe is the title of the game, and warframes should be a core aspect of gameplay, with their abilities being essential. Not negated by various bosses or enemies

To another person, they want call of duty in space. They want the game to be about their guns, and want other parts of the game to be changed so their guns shine.

To yet another person, they want dynasty warriors in space. They want strong melee and strong ability play.

To yet another, they may want Dark Souls in space. Slow, tactical, involved melee, with some OP elements in terms of one-shotting attacks with small attack radius, yet feeling a constant sense of vulnerability.

To another person, it can be the side activities of fishing and looking for animals.

To someone else, it can be about space combat, and want to see the recently added Railjack expanded to its full potential.

To different person, it would be that 3 hours survival, or hitting 40 rounds of defense, being true endgame

To another, 3x3 eidolons is true endgame, and hall way shooter survival is the draggiest slog ever

To yet another, it's all about trading and earning plat.

To yet another person, it's just fashioning up and not caring about combat.

To some, it's just about playing that one warframe, getting consumed by that particular frame, identifying with it, living by it, rioting over it, advocating it to be buffed or everything else be nerfed so that particular thing, their main  becomes the bestest ever

To some others, it's all about modding for the biggest damage numbers ever in the simulacrum, with bestest riven ever and gradually forgetting what it means to play actual missions

To yet others, it's sitting in region chat all day talking nonsense to randoms.

 

DE's imagination created a space for all of the above, but at the same time, their haphazard choices of which parts of the community to listen to, sometimes destroys the spaces they created for some while exalting others. Not sure when DE will figure that out.

 

Edited by Xepthrichros
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Main reason im having fun is the power fantasy so any type of nerfs or forced difficult content sucks optional difficult content is welcome tho.

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I just want DE to play their game more often. Branch away from a school that isn't Zenurik, Use a melee that isn't a greatsword, and play missions with mobs higher than level 30.

 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

This game peaked when the first open world released, and ever since then, it's been a rocky downward slope to Grindfest City: population, almost everyone now that Scarlet Spear is console-certified.

Nah man, Warframe peaked during The Second Dream. Ever since then, DE has been chasing behind the shadow of what the second dream gave us, trying at every notion to one up what they created. What The Second Dream gave us was incredible, an expansion to the lore and an introduction to a new gameplay system. For the first time, it felt like Warframe has finally found its footing and was finally about to take a giant leap into a new direction for the game. Even then though, the cracks were showing. The focus system was very grindy and pretty unbalanced, and the launch was pretty buggy even back then.

I say, instead of focusing on what the community wants, focus on whatever the developer wants and finds as fun. It is their game after all, and we just play whatever they get to make. Focus on making a game that they are proud of making, then use the community to refine what they have made, rather than seeking the community on what to make. There are too many opinions out there to make "the community" a reliable source to build the game off of.

As for me, I would rather see a refinement of the combat system in order to make the moment to moment gameplay feel enjoyable. There needs to be a feel for a better flow in the combat, and maybe integrate the movement system within the flow of combat. Then, take a look at the enemies and how they are designed. How would the enemies interact with this new system, and then move onto to the modding system. Take a good look at what is there, then refine it so that it has more potential to be expanded on. That way, even if there may be no more content to be made, the general gameplay just keeps you coming back to play over and over again.

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12 minutes ago, Xepthrichros said:

DE's imagination created a space for all of the above, but at the same time, their haphazard choices of which parts of the community to listen to, sometimes destroys the spaces they created for some while exalting others. Not sure when DE will figure that out.

What I've learned from past uprisings is that the best way to get DE to figure out something is to literally burn down every asset of Warframe-related social media. Only then will the devs start paying attention. 

But the fact that we need to draw attention to them this way shouldn't even have to be a factor in the first place.

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46 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

I... wasn't talking about him being easy. Which, yes, he was after all that, but it's besides the point.

I was talking about the lengths DE had to go to just to make him significant enough to not get blinked out of existence in a nanosecond flat.

Armor and health is not really a problem to me, the only thing that I see as a problem to the community is the immunity to status and abilities which can be justified through his background story for having armor strong enough to resist or being immune. My experience in public squad still took some time even with 3 rhinos and eidolon gear with me and I out damaged them with nezha and stradavar so that much armor and health is what you need to have an enemy that isn't killed in nanosecond flat and can be a base stat for future bullet sponge (read boss)

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Things i really want to see:

  • The completion of railjack stuff, actually connecting the game together in some manner other than dropping random gear items. I want to be able to use the railjack to go from planet to planet and use it as a base to launch ground missions and whatnot. If possible turn the entire solar system into a large railjack open world. Naturally add more mission types for railjack as well. Definitely add something with a lot less combat than the current missions. Say something like raiding some asteroid base. It has some defenders that you need to get past/kill but not enough to be constantly shooting for 10 minutes. Say something like a "boss" tier crew ship you have to kill. It may just be that ship and perhaps 10 fighters. Give it abilities that need to be evaded and countered before you can bring down its shields/armor to board it or blow it up with the big gun.
  • Expansion of the open worlds. More mission types. Actual story quests to be found out in the world. Something that feels more meaningful than a group of 4 random objectives. So for an example you may find some dead solaris on the orb vallis, you scan them and find out that they were carrying some valuable intel. So the next step of the quest is to track down the corpus that took it from them, like with floof hunting. You then find them somewhere, kill them and retrieve the intel, get mission reward when you turn that intel in to the solaris. At the very least a lot more objective types should be added to both open worlds.
  • A proper stealth mission type where you actually have to sneak through the whole thing rather than just rush for the terminals in a spy mission. Like for instance a stealth assassination mission where you have to get to the target, kill it and get out without being seen at all. Add in some stuff that can scan through invisibility to avoid making them too easy with a proper stealth frame and it should be interesting. Making use of the mobility we have should be required for sure.
  • And as a final one ill say "RP stuff" so things like less laggy dojos. Seating. Walking toggle etc and so on. Basically things to let people play their characters together and make their own stories. The ultimate version of this could be something like a mission creator like the foundry in star trek online or neverwinter, let people create.
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2 hours ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

Balance or power fantasy?

THESE TWO THINGS AREN'T MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE

"Balance" doesn't mean something is hard, easy, it just means that everything is similar. If a game is a good power fantasy it is BALANCED so it is consistently a power fantasy. You need to balance a power fantasy so that different avenues of expressing your power are all fulfilling. It is literally the exact same thing as balancing a hard game by making sure that no content can be cheesed. Making something less powerful (nerf) does not inherently mean you are breaking the power fantasy. If you "nerf" something so it deals less damage, but it still one-shots enemies, how is that having any impact on your power fantasy?

The "no nerf, only buff" mentality is just as deadly to a power fantasy as it is to any other type of game.

 

I know this isn't the point of your post, but good lord I am sick and tired of people saying that balance doesn't exist in a power fantasy.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:


You have something good going: a base. People like the base. You build on top of the base with stuff that fits the base perfectly. Then you decide, "you know what? I'm going to do something completely different, something out-of-the-blue, and hopefully, the players will enjoy it". And then, you do something completely different. Despite a buggy start, you refine it, and you not only get positive reception, but you also get an influx of new users thanks to doing something different BETTER than someone else whose entire premise was on that different thing but they failed to deliver on it.

"Warframe is the X killer, Warframe is the free and better version of Y, etc."

But then, something changes. Now that you know that doing stuff differently yields tremendous positive reception, you forget about the base of the game, and start loading something new on top of it every three months. Spaceships, a second open world, a nemesis system that isn't even a nemesis system, Endgame #1, Endgame #2, Endgame #2.5,

Great points. I feel that Both PoE and Fortuna were on top of the base; they are true expansions of successful formulas. Why can’t DE do the same? Do what works. Instead, DE wasted a ton of resources to destroy and nerf this game, the base and the core of it. DE keeps taking out what works for players and adds what’s not working so well. That’s why we are seeing a lot of critical opinions of many players who are literally screaming at DE yet DE doesn’t care. 

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I want more interesting themed warframes, new lore, open worlds and new operator abilities. These events are making Warframe Grindfest game but i don´t mind this grinding.

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18 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Armor and health is not really a problem to me, the only thing that I see as a problem to the community is the immunity to status and abilities which can be justified through his background story for having armor strong enough to resist or being immune. My experience in public squad still took some time even with 3 rhinos and eidolon gear with me and I out damaged them with nezha and stradavar so that much armor and health is what you need to have an enemy that isn't killed in nanosecond flat and can be a base stat for future bullet sponge (read boss)

Are you even reading what I wrote? Seriously, you picked out a single line out of context and are trying to argue it like that somehow disproves my point that OP stuff harms Warframe in the long run

Wolf was a single example of what DE has to do to make any content feel significant or interesting. I really don't care about any lore justifications, or your individual performance against him when he was doing his thing. The point was that, with how non-interactive and OP some abilities allow the player to become, DE cannot make interesting content, because they have to blanket-disable the vast majority of mechanics any other game would use to add choice and variety, because many of those mechanics have such cheese baked into them that, should they be enabled to try give players more choice, the enemy will invariably wind up either disabled or dead with as little engagement from the player as any other random Goomba.

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I want this game to be more engaging that just holding the go button until you win over and over again. I want DE to climb out of the endless abyss of powercreep they dove headlong into. I want interesting enemies that don't evaporate before they even get a chance to be interesting. I want this game to have any semblance of balance, because that is necessary for all these other things.

And, most importantly: I want Warframe to be a game that knows what it is. Once upon a time, it actually felt like DE had a master plan for this game. Everything fit together properly, and nothing was superfluous. It was nicely focused, and was just Warframe, pure and simple. But that didn't last long, and now they have made so many crazy changes and additions that the game no longer feels anything like it used to. It doesn't feel like Warframe anymore because it lost its focus. Its just a blurry blob of crazy experiments at this point, not a cohesive game.

So what does DE want Warframe to be? Do they want it to be an epic story driven masterpiece, or an endless grinding simulator? Do they want it to be a high speed 3rd person shooter, or a crew based space sim? Do they want huge open maps, or smaller, more controlled environments? They need to choose, otherwise the game ends up being a mess. They clearly don't have the resources to maintain all these different things while also adding new stuff, so they should have kept things simple. But as it is, the game tries to do too much with way too little.

Most of my favorite games are simple. They knew what they wanted to do, and they did it. No fancy bells and whistles that just end up getting in the way, and no time wasted on flashy but ultimately useless gimmicks. But, at this point, Warframe is almost nothing but extraneous features. Meanwhile, Warframe has so many bells and whistles that you can't even tell whats under them anymore.

Its fine to listen to your players and add some of their ideas to your game sometimes. But you still need to maintain the lead yourself, because you need to make sure your game doesn't lose its identity. I have seen other games try this "designed by community" style, and all it ever ends up doing is making the whole game perfectly generic. It has no proper identity, because it tries to be everything at the same time. You also need to know your limits and not add anything you aren't capable of dealing with. Either way, if you add too much random stuff, none of it shines through, and it all blends together into a nice bland grey.

But, that's also why I don't expect any of this to ever actually happen. Grey goes with everything, so Warframe appeals to everyone in some way. And that's exactly what DE wants. They want as many people playing as they can get. The more focused a game is, the smaller its audience will be. And F2P games can't survive without a massive audience. So DE really need Warframe to be bland and generic to get that lowest common denominator money.

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Reading through comments here, listening to other players, and even the partners I see several things: 1. Most of us relatively have the same gripes about the game as others. 2. More nitty gritty aspects are a bit more nuanced and subjective (as @Xepthrichros) points out above. And, these are all great reasons to play the game. 3. There seems to be a (growing) disconnect between DE and the player base that has not always been there. 

There are really cool aspects to the game and really fun parts to the game however, as you point out OP, something changes the further away you get from that base. 

Personally (and again, this is just me) I agree with many sentiments echoed here. I think what kind of started killing things for me is that during the main quests are done and you finish all the cinematics, everything feels like a grind for grind sake and that just isn't fun. Why spend thousands of credits and thousands of endo to rank mods to capacity when you can do just fine melting enemies with less? There is no need to do marathon runs. DE keeps adding resources and grind to events that are specific to that event and nothing else. Ashisogi Tenno recently made a great video (and echoed it with Rhaetalius) about how DE can better manage resources. You have DE that rushes out broken and unfinished content and asks us to take our time with it (knowing we probably won't) but it's basically a stopgap.

Bringing this back to your question of what do I want? communication, I'd like DE to take a breath, I'd like players to take a breath, I'd like more polish on the game before we add new things. I'd maybe say, DE should scale the game back a bit. clean up some stuff and then move forward. Currently there are so many things DE can do with what we have, we don't need to have new stuff thrown at us necessarily. 

I dunno, there is all so much and it feels like we shout into an echo chamber sometimes. Here's hoping we all find the love in the game again

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31 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

THESE TWO THINGS AREN'T MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE

"Balance" doesn't mean something is hard, easy, it just means that everything is similar. If a game is a good power fantasy it is BALANCED so it is consistently a power fantasy. You need to balance a power fantasy so that different avenues of expressing your power are all fulfilling. It is literally the exact same thing as balancing a hard game by making sure that no content can be cheesed. Making something less powerful (nerf) does not inherently mean you are breaking the power fantasy. If you "nerf" something so it deals less damage, but it still one-shots enemies, how is that having any impact on your power fantasy?

The "no nerf, only buff" mentality is just as deadly to a power fantasy as it is to any other type of game.

 

I know this isn't the point of your post, but good lord I am sick and tired of people saying that balance doesn't exist in a power fantasy.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Dead Cells is a perfect example of this. That game makes you feel like you are super good at it, even when you aren't. From the moment you start playing, it lets you feel like a super badass. But that game can also be super hard. And the entire reason it can be both is because it is properly balanced.

And, personally, I think soulslike games are some of the best power fantasy games out there. The fact that they are so unforgiving makes it so much more satisfying when you get good at them. Overcoming big challenges makes you feel more powerful than simply being unstoppable from beginning to end. Having something to compare your strength to is important.

This is also why most people don't play Doom in godmode all the time. It gets boring really fast because the is no challenge whatsoever. Its also horribly unbalanced, because the game isn't really intended to be played that way.

And think about this: Who is more powerful? A kid burning ants with a magnifying glass? Or a kid killing a giant warrior with nothing but a sling? And, which one would you rather play as in a game?

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Some of these I've said before, but in no particular order...

 

I'd like old content to get a facelift, since they re-use those assets/mechanics for most future content, yes including railjack. 

Nightwave - just have it reset every 30 ranks, each time removing cosmetics and putting in potatoes or extra credits instead. We would have 2 extra umbra forma by now if they'd kept their promise(s) of releasing nightwave. I'm fine if it takes them longer, I'm NOT fine with no way of getting Umbra Forma - even if it's only nightwave (which I think is completely fair, to slow power creep), we should be able to get 6 or so per year, right now that isn't looking likely. 

I'd like frames that don't have a quest to get one, especially open world frames (I've said many times that hildryn/garuda/baruuk could have their own story on how they changed parts of Fortuna's landscape while defending the blueprints/codes to fight the orbs). 

I'd like frames that need one or two abilities touched up/reworked would get that, more streamline with some frames that have many abilities (like titania's tribune, should be able to hold it and cast all 4 for a 50% markup on energy cost). 

Kuva Liches - scaling rewards 400 endo becomes 600, 15-80 endo rewards on mars become 400-600 etc. (talking mission rewards here). One lith relic becomes two. KL's get tied into invasions where you can fight them there why they try conquest to eventually end up in space and you can end it with a RJ boarding mission.

Kuva Weapons - Not requiring 5 forma to get MR. This also goes for the future corpus weapons too (and their respective liches with murmur grind, I want to do the mission for the mission not for murmurs to kill a guy in a 1-2 min fight to then do it again for a few hours, that isn't fun DE).

Railjack - more than one mission type, Squad AI, so us solo players can participate - less grind and far less RNG on what facilitates a 'good' part. Remove bullet time on most archwing weapons, but add one or two weapons with it and give them increase damage (so it's a skill based weapon which you get rewarded for with more damage), that way those who can't aim ahead on stuff can still play in archwing and enjoy the content too. Also, buff the other 3 archwings to be in the ballpark of Amesha's rein. 

 

Fortuna/Plains - scaling rewards (have a new type of bounty that goes "indefinitely" until the player leaves that open world.

Eidolons - not being timegated - Scarlet Spear has greatly diminished the value of arcanes. Also, it isn't fun waiting when you want to play content (we aren't here to idle, DE). So remove the time-gate on Eidolons.

The Void - I think there should always be 4 fissures active in the void, it is the void after all - why can it infect random nodes in the starchart but not be infected itself?

MOT - Should have scaling rewards, since it's technically the hardest node on the starchart, radiant relics, 600 endo, etc. Should be a nice reward spot for the ramped up difficulty.

Arbitrations - Perhaps once in a blue moon be able to choose what frame/weapon gets a boost? I know in writing this, technically it undermines one of the 'goals' of arbitrations, which is to use things other than meta, but sometimes I'd like to use a combo that I get one or the other on, but not both. Just an idea.

Clean up loot drops (again), stalker, G3, Zanuka, etc. shouldn't be dropping common stuff, their signature items only would be far more fair. 

Assassin type enemies (Stalker, G3, Zanuka) getting a buff or slight rework to make them a threat (scaling with host would be a nice touch).  

That's all I can think of off the top of my head at the moment.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, (PS4)chubbslawson said:

Trust. I want to be able to trust de. I don’t like putting time and effort into something, getting it how I like it,then having them come along saying they screwed that up it has to be changed. Near as I can tell they screw up everything. I lost all trust in them

Most developers when faced with screw ups rather say its intended behavior and let it burn.

DE being able to rework entire systems so fast I always saw as positive.

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To build a house with materials gathered from the world, make a pen, make a village, make a door to a dimension of fire and sulfur. Find a portal that will take me to fight the Ender Chroma.

And chickens. Lots of chickens as bodyguards.

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I want my power fantasy where I don't need to keep re-leveling on missions I get bored of only to be able to play them on missions I want to play.

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Lore, sustainability of game modes, lesser grind for rewards, more bosses, various events and storylines. I could give a rats ass about railjack and kuva lich. Just give something that tries to tie everything up. 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

Because the developers don't know what they want for this game, neither does the community. And because the community doesn't know what it wants for this game, neither will the developers.

You seem very confident that this fractured community is the direction provider for DE’s vision, instead of being minor nudges 🤔 (I could be misinterpreting something). Were we ever unified?

I’m actually not certain; Did we ask for Railjack, Liches, Fortuna, or Squad Link? Before they revealed them, did we even think about them coming into existence? From my perspective it feels like DE dreamed them up after seeing what others were doing (or just dreamed them up on the spot) and going “That looks cool, this could fit within Warframe and be part of its evolution”, but I’d love to know what the inspiration posts/feedback from the community were if those were actually used instead.

Edited by (NSW)Greybones
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I just want them to remember to look at older stuff that's already in-game every so often. there's a LOT that hasn't been touched in literal years: I did an invasion again recently, and it's still the same tilesets: it doesn't feel like these almighty factions of Corpus and Grineer are clashing, there's no space battles going on outside, there's no transmissions from the faction we sided with.. invasions just feel really lackluster. and while that's not the most pressing of issues to deal with, it's the one I most recently remember that made me think "wish they'd rework some of this, it would look awesome with an update.".

another thing is dual-wielding for swords/daggers/machetes etc, like they said we'd get after melee 3.0. again, it's not urgent, but it would be nice to know that DE hasn't totally forgotten about these things and eventually do something about them. little things like this really do add up. those are two things I'd like personally; I'm sure the rest of you have your own (probably long) list of things you'd genuinely love to see reworked after such a long period of time.

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7 hours ago, o0Despair0o said:

Because we expected an open "world", not a open "backyard sandpit".

We've lived our entire Tenno life's in Grindfest City, but only with PoE did it evolve into Omega-Grind City.

Fun. I want to get fun. Having to play work 8 hours a day for weeks so that I can afford mediocre gear that gets boring after 20 minutes is not fun.

Well then based on ur opinion i think it's time to take a break then...or maybe quit? if you going to reply like that then.

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