April 2020 Riven Disposition Updates & PC Trading PSA

[ShogunNoir]

Why is the Tatsu getting a nerf? I've spent hundreds of thousands of Kuva trying to get a semi-decent roll on that thing only for it to be nerfed?

Like, why even bother anymore? Just get rid of Rivens completely. 

[CodeUltimate]

3 minutes ago, DJInfornography said:

Really it seems everyone is missing the point that this is like the brightly colored skin scaring you away from a poisonous toad. No one should be using rivens.

They are warning you here and now, you think  they see that nothing is going to get you to use that broken old, unused, weapon even with a 5/5 disposition, which they wont.

I guess no one should be playing warframe either. xd

[AzureTerra]

Anyone who pays a huge sum for a riven deserves exactly whatever changes come to any item they are used on.

[Energy_Dispenser_Prime]

Guess we all need to use terribad weapons to buff the good ones.. thanks DE I always wanted to use the worst weapons.

[DetectiveKodo]

I just keep saying this, why we even trade rivens if the dev nerffing every riven we buy or trade.
you guys are making the game worst, keep that in mind.

[CodeUltimate]

6 minutes ago, DetectiveKodo said:

I just keep saying this, why we even trade rivens if the dev nerffing every riven we buy or trade.
you guys are making the game worst, keep that in mind.

You should not punish players for playing your own game, I'm sorry but your logic is retarded. The only ones making their own game worst are the devs by implementing terrible ways to balance stuff.

[GreyDeath789]

17 minutes ago, ZoomZoomPrime said:

-snip-

Yep, that is what I am gonna do...probably login so I keep getting the now mostly worthless login rewards (cuz they nerf those now too...looking at you Zenistar) and drop things into standing if I have a stockpile (those 2000 intact Sentient cores I have but can only drop 290 into Quills standing each day) so I can buy an arcane or 2 each day (10000 standing for one arcane so 29000 means only 2 per day...what do you mean i should play Bug Spear instead?)

No more Prime Access for me either...don't care enough to have the newest stuff that will get nerfed a few months anyway...just grind it on the days I actually play the game...

[IenzoAin]

7 minutes ago, DJInfornography said:

Really it seems everyone is missing the point that this is like the brightly colored skin scaring you away from a poisonous toad. No one should be using rivens.

They are warning you here and now, you think  they see that nothing is going to get you to use that broken old, unused, weapon even with a 5/5 disposition, which they wont.

Cough, looks at stug.

[mrrobotto67]

Justo ahora, BananaSlamJamma dijo:

The war should be 5/5 if you ask me...

Indeed, i haven't seen nobody use that weapon, and personally i think it needs a major buff (and something to set it apart aside from just more damage)

[DJInfornography]

4 minutes ago, CodeUltimate said:

I guess no one should be playing warframe either. xd

=^.^=

Play Warframe to your heart's content. 

Just don't be fooled by obvious gambling and loot box mechanics and claim

to be the victim at a later date.

WHEN THEY TELL YOU WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN!

Don't be surprised by outcomes.

Also not saying you are.

[CephalonSamara]

Again another 'rebalance' of a broken system. When will DE realize that even 10% boost on a meta weapon dealing 1000 base damage is 100 additional damage, while 1000% boost on a low end 10 damage weapon is 1000?. Why not convert all the rivens from a percentage based system, to something like they did on Primed Reach ? With the new system of how range is absolute, it actually allows low range weapons to be used, unlike the previous percentage based system. This will also allow easier balancing of rivens, just because the buff is directly controlled instead of being given in percentages.

There is my riven of a 5 dot disposition Twin vipers 

My total damage per shot = 1099.9, assuming all shots from multishot land.

 

Here is my Pyrana Prime:

 

Damage per shot = 6021.1, again assuming all pellets land.

All the damage numbers are before taking into account critical multipliers, body damage boosts and fire rate boosts.

 

Now if both weapons are fired point blank, Pyrana out classes Twin Vipers easily

Assumption: Body shot multiplier set at 1, all shots land on target, and each hit is a critical hit.

• Twin vipers calculation:

          40 rounds per magazine * 1099.9 * 4.2 (crit multiplier) = 184,783.2

• Pyrana Prime calculation:

          12 rounds per magazine * 6021.1 * 4.6 (crit mupltiplier) = 332,359.2. (This number is without the gimmick being even active)

          24 rounds per magazine * 6021.1 * 4.6 (crit mupltiplier) = 664,718. (This number is with the gimmick being active)

Damage difference per clip = 147,576 (without gimmick)

Damage difference per clip = 479,935 (with gimmick)

Damage difference per shot = 23,080.42

DPS on max fire rate , including weapon gimmicks:

• Twin Vipers : 184783.2 (as fire rate is 40, and so is clip size, so the whole 40 bullets are used in a second)
• Pyrana Prime : 6021.1 * 4.6 * 8.96 =248,165.6576 (Pyrana Prime's fire rate buff of 40% included)

 

This is a really rough calculation, but still shows how much difference exists between a low level weapon with top tier riven, and a top tier weapon with no riven.

For more detailed calculation, I am using warframe-builder.com, posting images here:

 

 

Now, when everything is taken into account, like reload speed , we can see that Twin vipers barely beat Pyrana prime by a measly 6000~ damage in sustained DPS, but gets outclassed again in burst DPS by Pyaran by ~14000 damage. And this is when my Pyrana doesn't even have a riven. (Also, just realized that warframe-builder.com didn't take into account the increase in fire rate of Pyrana Prime when gimmick activates.)

If DE still cannot see what is broken with their system, I don't know what can be done to make them see it.

[ChodePrime]

This thread is some high quality entertainment, if you don't like the system just don't engage with it lol

[I.V.A.R.A]

I see you're nerfing dispo's of the stuff people are using for Scarlet Spear. Because... we all know 11 hours is already far too fast to max one Energize. The nerve of us, thinking we deserve a life. lol. 

[CodeUltimate]

1 minute ago, ChodePrime said:

This thread is some high quality entertainment, if you don't like the system just don't engage with it lol

 I think most people are already doing that by not playing the game LMAO.

[sorcer3r]

Sigma & Octantis ?

 

btw regarding useless mods. Amalgam Javlok Magazine Warp rework?

[--END--Rikutatis]

I think some of those riven dispo nerfs were totally fair, specially for melee weapons that never had their dispos changed after melee 3.0 (I had a handful of those rivens myself, and I'm totally fine with the changes). 

However let's be honest, the entire riven system is just poorly done from a player's perspective. From a dev's perspective, you guys probably just see all the plat rolling in and/or trading hands in those millionaire riven trades. But for players the system is super frustrating. Layers of RNG with the impossibility to work towards your goal unless you win the roll lottery or more likely than not just spend thousands of plat; coupled with disposition changes that make your time/plat investment a real "feel bad" moment. Considering the original purpose of rivens was to make bad weapons more viable and competitive by giving them strong rivens, that goal definitely failed (either totally or at least partially) and a riven rework has been needed for years now. 

But hey, I guess you guys can totally afford to squander more community good will in 2020, eh?

At this point rivens are just a plat making system for DE to make players investing too much into it look like fools.

[IllogicalLogic420]

22 minutes ago, kamisama85 said:

The base stats didn't get nerfed, just the multiplier of your supercharged riven. The primed version is still better than the original.

I know, but rivens are a huge part of almost everybody's builds. See the very first post in this thread after the OP's post. First page, up top. Aksomati vs Aksomati prime.
The only thing the prime has going for it now it a larger status chance. Whoop dee fricken doo. No ty.

[Tokomi_]

What just happened?

This makes no sense from the player perspective. Raw data with no human element.

I just can't recommend this game anymore.

[Equi111]

So, if Rivens are and should be abolished, then everyone will be happy if you can longer trade them (for example). But then, we're gonna have the forums flooded with Riven Traders s***posting because 'DE this DE that'.

 If Rivens should stay always the same and never change, then the 'Warframe Meta' is always the same and nothing changes. The game is rather "stalled" and everyone just plays 'Kuva Bramma' for the next 5 years, because that's what's meta. Then, we're gonna have the forums flooded with everyone posting how stalled and boring the game is because of it. (But I do agree completely that nerfing the Paracesis right now is a very bad move.)

 I mean, I guess my points aren't very well elaborate and you can't really take much from what I'm trying to say. My point is, no one is ever satisfied with anything, and thanks to youtubers that redistribute Warframe content - carrying on with the hate train, everyone else seems to be following that margin. It has almost become a meme to s**** on whatever DE creates nowadays. Even people that barely play, or even CARE about the game have jumped on the hate train.

 Guys, can you please grow up a little bit? I know there's a lot of bad stuffs in the game, but I'm pretty sure constantly talking about it is not gonna have any effect whatsoever. If you really wanna start making a difference, then don't put money or time or effort into the game. Go on hiatus. Leave it be. If people ACTUALLY stop playing the game, then you'll see something changing. As long as people keep complaining but, keep playing then everything stays the same.

 I've once heard that, insanity is: "Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting something to change." Well, good luck with that.

 Another take onto these issues, if there's so many posts about 'DE this DE' that and DE doesn't do anything with those issues... Hmmm... What can we do about it? How can we approach them? Maybe we're being too critical, maybe we're being too negative. Or maybe we're not getting our voice heard? Or maybe they don't care? There are other ways to call out the developers attention, without giving out a tantrum or continuously bad mouthing stuffs.

 Not exactly what anyone wants to hear, but just putting my voice out there, since I usually don't post anything at all.

 Food for thought, I hope.

[GreyDeath789]

8 minutes ago, TheQuagmire said:

Guess we all need to use terribad weapons to buff the good ones.. thanks DE I always wanted to use the worst weapons.

DE's evil plan to get players to sink meaningless time into the game to keep it going...the new variant to MR fodder...lovely.

[IenzoAin]

Just now, IllogicalLogic420 said:

I know, but rivens are a huge part of almost everybody's builds. See the very first post in this thread after the OP's post. First page, up top. Aksomati vs Aksomati prime.
The only thing the prime has going for it now it a larger status chance. Whoop dee fricken doo. No ty.

Exhibit A) Get a good riven for your kitgun(s) of choice and then custom build them tailoring them to status or crit chance depending on your roll.

[Shinjen]

Thanks for nerfing Paracesis again for no reason 

[IenzoAin]

1 minute ago, GreyDeath789 said:

DE's evil plan to get players to sink meaningless time into the game to keep it going...the new variant to MR fodder...lovely.

Hey, if you want to use a trash weapon look no further than the Stug.

[Heatsaber]

1 hour ago, Voltage said:

Over-usage directly correlates to powercreep in this game. Wouldn't the game be healthier if every 90 days you had crappy Primes/Vandals/Wraiths/etc. become relevant, and obvious powercreep adjusted? Or would you rather have it like it is now where a very obvious oversight isn't touched for years at a time? I could have told you the Plague Kripath disposition would be nerfed in 2017, I just wouldn't be able to tell you when. It's a base Viral damage polearm that can use Exodia Contagion. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to identify balance issues in this game. 

Riven Mods over time have taken the place of balancing powercreep in this game, and it is quite sad. They should be completely irrelevant when it comes to balance, not be the balance. I would much rather DE revisit Aksomati every 90 days and make stat tweaks than ruin my time investment. If you nerf Aksomati but keep the Riven the same, you still let the Riven be unique and powerful while toning down powercreep. In this current system, I am actually punished for having a Riven nobody else has access to, because the stats are so good that it makes the vanilla compete with the Prime. That is terrible. The better your Riven gets, the closer the gap is, and the less interesting variants are. If you ignore Rivens or only have bad rolls, this will affect you less.

Too true, I do agree with your observation, well the first paragraph anyway.

I primarily look to variants not as stat buffs but as weapons with new features and gimmicks - the new corinth prime for example, i couldn't care less about stats as long as its decent (for corinth prime it definitely is), what i like about is its new take on under barrel grenade launcher and the bigger mag. Easily my favorite shotgun (I don't like shotguns in the first place).

Same reason why I am not excited for kuva karak, while I am a big fan of karak myself(Kuva hind for the win by the way). Though I admit, prisma grinlok was a much needed stat and usability buff for base grinlok, but that's a rare instance. But enough about that.

Now, here you claim, you would rather have aksomati nerfed than its riven because it doesn't ruin your time investment? So all your weapons comes fully formaed and potatoed from the foundry, because you seem to be implying the investment you made on the weapon itself is minimal? That seems like a logical fallacy if you ask me - because I invest vastly more on the weapon itself than the riven... I mean are our priorities somehow skewed?

Now on to the second, there is nothing unique about a cc ms cd riven beyond more damage per shot, sure the ones that affect fire rate, magazine size and the like has some effect on the weapon's feel but seriously how many people get rivens for fire rate and reload speed (I do... my recent corinth riven purchase of 350p was for a ms fire rate reload, learned my lesson with the base corinth) It's always more damage for most everyone, and i would gladly take hits on that front because things like reload speed and fire rate still affect dps of the weapon - so I would hazard a guess that rivens do an organic variant of balance pass by extension. I would take that and be safe in knowing the base weapons stats are relatively secure which wont force me to change my builds every 90 days or change a weapons feel in quick succession.

Also the base variants shouldn't be forgotten, everything should have a purpose - if the rivens end up making base variants a proper competition then its the fault of the upgraded variants design to not be innovative but just straight stat buffs, which is lazy design and should be discouraged by the community (i wont go back to base corinth even if its riven is at 1.5 and prime is at 0.5 because i like how the prime feels more and its distinct, same with kuva hind.)

Also I don't ignore rivens, with all my weapons that see any sort of usage is properly rivened - hell i usually pick up a weapon because i got a good riven in the first place. The exceptions are things like nikana prime, where the dispo is so low, its not worth the slot in the build - when its time to remove my corinth prime's riven because its too low to be of use - I will, gladly.

Foot note : People really need to stop chasing rivens as an endorphin high, doing more damage than another player in an online video game(that too pve) isn't making you any more attractive to the opposite sex. Folks stop buying rivens for outrageous prices. Also its a self fulfilling prophecy, the higher the price of the riven you buy - the better the chance of it getting nerfed

[kamisama85]

Just now, IllogicalLogic420 said:

I know, but rivens are a huge part of almost everybody's builds. See the very first post in this thread after the OP's post. First page, up top. Aksomati vs Aksomati prime.
The only thing the prime has going for it now it a larger status chance. Whoop dee fricken doo. No ty.

I had two or three active weapons in that list get a little tough love, but it's still going to be multiples stronger than anything I could have had without a riven entirely. I'm not one of the mega meta users on a bramma for instance, but these changes will not prevent me from still enjoying and laying waste to monsters as I already do today. Maybe I kill one or two less for every 50. No big deal, but my prime variants will continue to be choice over the original from base stat differences alone. Isn't that the reason why you chose the prime one in the first place?