April 2020 Riven Disposition Updates & PC Trading PSA

[CephalonSamara]

See the update on the post i made, which you have quoted here.

10 minutes ago, WeaselBoy said:

I don't understand your point.

Was your point that the Pyrana Prime does more damage per shot than the Twin Vipers Wraith? If so, yes. Of course it does, it is an auto shotgun with a low magazine size versus a bullet hose.

The actual DPS of both builds is 185k burst/85k sustained for the Twin Vipers and 135k burst/72k for the Pyrana. Your rivened Twin Vipers beats Pyrana Prime, congratulations.  

 

[DerGilb]

A weapon is popular -- the weapon is fun -- DE nerfs it -- the weapon is not fun anymore -- you took the fun away from the players that play your game. Smart move.

[nr.9]

 I loved the laughing face 😃 as a reaction. Could you give it back?

[GreyDeath789]

Just now, THE_ZEEK said:

now, please can we stop the trading in rivens already and make them so that we can lock certain specs.. and roll it the way we would like it? unlimited riven space

Actually, Warframe is probably going to "evolve" to where you can 'upgrade' things in a similar manner as Kuva weapons can now...

Railjack gun is +34% fire rate and you have a +58% fire rate...merge them to get a 60% fire rate (because DE doesn't want to have you exploit things and trivialize the game)...

Have a reactor that is +72 avionics capacity and +12 flux...and another one that is +23 avionics capacity and +88 flux...merge them to get +80 avionics capacity and +90 flux...go look for 8 more copies of the same reactor so you can max it to +82 avionics capacity and +94 flux!

Have that sweet god riven for the Stug? Make it better by merging it with 23 non-god Stug rivens but first spend weeks grinding to get that ultra rare drop that lets you change a riven polarity to match the riven you want to merge it with!!!! Don't have 23 non-god Stug rivens? It is ok they will be available soon on the market after DE nerfs the disposition,,.again!

 

[JohnnyMeta]

I think that something fair to avoid this pain, is to send a hotfix where all the stats of the weapons in the game are adjusted absolutely, and the riven have generally disposition 1 = rank 3/5

The reason is that there are so many that are too strong that DE doesn't even consider in this. It only takes what users use, but how about making a weapon more attractive so you don't resort to this?

Really, many have to have invested a good amount of platinum in their favorite weapons so that later they have to feel bad for such a change, it really hurts.

It is as if they said "TITANIA PRIME" but without archwings.

[tobiparty]

Emm wot?

5 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

As a general rule, weapon dispositions within a certain family are still adjusted partially in relation to one another. Otherwise, most base weapons would skyrocket to 1.5, and we’d have a very strange meta on our hands!

 

 

[SweetScreams]

3 minutes ago, DerGilb said:

A weapon is popular -- the weapon is fun -- DE nerfs it -- the weapon is not fun anymore -- you took the fun away from the players that play your game. Smart move.

Its an insane practice yet they do it over and over. As time progress the less they actually listen to the player base. Its no wonder so many are leaving jaded.

[CephalonSamara]

30 minutes ago, Equi111 said:

So, if Rivens are and should be abolished, then everyone will be happy if you can longer trade them (for example). But then, we're gonna have the forums flooded with Riven Traders s***posting because 'DE this DE that'.

 If Rivens should stay always the same and never change, then the 'Warframe Meta' is always the same and nothing changes. The game is rather "stalled" and everyone just plays 'Kuva Bramma' for the next 5 years, because that's what's meta. Then, we're gonna have the forums flooded with everyone posting how stalled and boring the game is because of it. (But I do agree completely that nerfing the Paracesis right now is a very bad move.)

 I mean, I guess my points aren't very well elaborate and you can't really take much from what I'm trying to say. My point is, no one is ever satisfied with anything, and thanks to youtubers that redistribute Warframe content - carrying on with the hate train, everyone else seems to be following that margin. It has almost become a meme to s**** on whatever DE creates nowadays. Even people that barely play, or even CARE about the game have jumped on the hate train.

 Guys, can you please grow up a little bit? I know there's a lot of bad stuffs in the game, but I'm pretty sure constantly talking about it is not gonna have any effect whatsoever. If you really wanna start making a difference, then don't put money or time or effort into the game. Go on hiatus. Leave it be. If people ACTUALLY stop playing the game, then you'll see something changing. As long as people keep complaining but, keep playing then everything stays the same.

 I've once heard that, insanity is: "Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting something to change." Well, good luck with that.

 Another take onto these issues, if there's so many posts about 'DE this DE' that and DE doesn't do anything with those issues... Hmmm... What can we do about it? How can we approach them? Maybe we're being too critical, maybe we're being too negative. Or maybe we're not getting our voice heard? Or maybe they don't care? There are other ways to call out the developers attention, without giving out a tantrum or continuously bad mouthing stuffs.

 Not exactly what anyone wants to hear, but just putting my voice out there, since I usually don't post anything at all.

 Food for thought, I hope.

The thing is, rivens should be a power-kick for your weapon, not a bread and butter solution to make your favorite but weak weapons to actually be competent against really powerful weapons. This is what makes then a pain in the ass to acquire, and makes a huge mess when such a change occurs.

My opinion here would be to have a upgrade system to weapon's stats, like, use extra ferrite to boost damage, extra rubedo to boost fall off, then use mods for changing functionality.Not only will this give old vets a resource sink, but will also give weaker weapons a reason to be upgraded and used. And THEN if you want the weapon to go over the edge, use a riven.  IN this system, there should be no room for riven dispositions as well.

[XhaltY]

So Gram Prime, an absolutely BUSTED weapon is getting a small nerf and staying at 1.25. I don't understand why the nerf of strikes like Kripath, Dokhram and even Keewar which is not that used compared to former examples, are getting nerfed by 0.2, and 0.15 respectively. You're actively pushing people who use rivens for these weapons to use weapons with high disposition, thus making the issue repeat. I think the riven system is nice. The constant disposition changes and the horrible criteria for what to nerf is what makes it cancer. Buffing an unused weapon by 0.1 doesn't change much in the grand scheme of things, the 1% of extra stat wont change anything. This is somewhat proof that DE don't play their game. A community decided disposition system would be great, because you, DE, show us that you do not play the game. Either make consistent balance changes every 3-5 months, or make it community decided.

[(XBOX)Vaktalor]

2 hours ago, fantaisie said:

DE this is a PVE game, NOT a COMPETITIVE FPS. All you are doing when you nerf things, is make people enjoy your game less. We play WF for the power fantasy. It is fun because of op gear we can play with.

Sometimes, it's not even about power, but fashion. Some weapons are just used more because they look cool, or are iconic magnets (nikana, tatsu) They are actually NOT that op. Or a certain weapon has a really cool tennogen skin. By nerfing it, you just deincentivized the desire to purchase tennogen for those items.

DE do you want to lose money and lose players?

couldn't say it any better myself.

[tobiparty]

Just remove rivens, and limbo. That's it.

I mean seriously, rivens are just making this game worse. Also remove limbo, or re-work him.

[Lone_Dude]

I see, I see. Latest prime releases turned out to be, for the most part, side-grades of their original versions. Considering that you went for a big-brain move(only took a couple of years) and are now balancing rivens for each weapon variant, primes get a slow-start as well. Seems to me like an attempt to tone-down all the power-creep that has been giving you all kinds of headaches, considering that the only way you people seem to add difficulty is by cranking up numbers or making nullifier-type enemies.

But now that you admit that you don't want normal variants to have higher dispos, we have a weird problem on our hands. What is the point of rivens then? Originally they were supposed to give certain weapons an edge. Underused, weaker weapons that is. You later made it even more obvious by introducing per-variant balancing. And now you went back on that word. So, you're basically just using it now to shake up the meta and market from time to time.

And look at you, you even block trading for all those "smart" bois and girls and other kinds of people.

How about that.

Let's pretend that you want to make the game healthier. For real. That you really don't want the riven market to be as toxic as it is right now, considering that you're ready to CRUSH IT on a whim, so you obviously have a problem with it, hehe. Let's pretend that you really value our time and investments and that if it was possible, you would make a harsh change to stop rivens from being so "exploitable" in both monetary and gameplay senses.

Here's a proposal:

• Make it so that we can lock riven stats.
  • Locking a stat consumes Kuva.
  • Player can lock multiple stats without re-rolling the riven.
  • Each locked stat increases riven Kuva consumption - rolling and locking following stats becomes more expensive.
• Locked stats can be "reset", all at once or 1 at a time. Giving us a full freedom to redact our rivens if you push out another one of your "buffs" or "exploit fixes" all of a sudden.
  • Obviously, reset cost is based on the amount of stats locked.
  • Resetting all stats and resetting 1 stat should consume the same amount of Kuva, just to add more of that favorite soul-crushing grind balance of yours.
• Make it so that utility stats, such as ammo maximum, reload speed, recoil and zoom always have at least 1 dispo multiplier. Such stats do affect DPS, of course, but its not as direct/crucial as critical chance or multishot and usually just makes the weapon more wieldy. Considering that you don't mind giving weapons 3 or 4 seconds of reload time, insane reload for no reason and other paper-tested fun stats, that idea doesn't sound too unhealthy to me.
• Each locked stat on a riven increases its trading tax. You already have rivens locked by MR, but hey, let's give you that one, just to make players work a little more even if they just buy it from someone else.

With a system like that, we will have a great mix of RNG and player-controlled progression. It still consumes Kuva, it still requires players to farm Kuva for it to make changes, still requires players to roll their rivens, it still allows players to "get lucky" with a riven that might require NO stat-locks and it still allows players to trade rivens. But because its not completely RNG-based it will tone down the prices and make rivens healthier. Hell, if you look at the way players lock stats, it'll be easier for you to regulate dispositions. And since you don't beat the utility stats with the same stick as pure damage stats, players might be more inclined to roll something other than "GODLY CC,CD, MULTISHOT" rivens.

Best part is, I'm willing to bet there are thousands of ideas similar to mine, but with actual math and heart put into them. You have an amazing community of people that invest so much time in your game, that they sometimes have more knowledge about its mechanics that some of the developers.

Of course, if you implement it, the members of the so-called "Riven mafia" are going to be furious, market will crash and prices will go down. But aren't you fighting exactly against "exploits" such as these? Aren't you fighting against riven toxicity and weapon overuse? So I'm sure you'll take that scorn just fine, because I'll be there to say "Thank you, for those AMAZING changes!".

While you're at it, might as well add scaling to Kuva Survival. I mean, it looks like you're on the path of rewarding them end-game players, so why not? I'm sure Sheldon won't be against it, since he doesn't like predatory slot-machines, and its gone for the most part with the system I proposed set in place. And Scott probably won't mind considering the latest enemy scaling fixes directed at high level enemeis. He also doesn't want us to test weapons against high level enemies in the Simulacrum and Kuva Survival is a great place to do that AND get some resources! EVERYONE IS A WINNER!

Also, if you do that, no one will be able to call you out for creating an unhealthy loot-box system with dev-tools in place that you periodically use to retroactively take rewards away from the players in order to fuel the market activity and player spending. No one will call you out for refusing to grant players adequate amount of rewards for missions that grant resources for said system, while preaching that we're supposed to play the game for limited amounts of time. No one will call you out for hiding from responsibility by saying that it doesn't count because you don't sell that crap and related resources directly and you don't even have an auction system for it tee-hee and all the serious trading is done through third-party web-sites that you don't promote officially.

Not like you people did any of that, amirite? Cheers!

[Mastadazza]

All the time energy and resources wasted messing around with Riven changes could be going into fixing bugs and patches and creating the new content that's suppose to be coming instead. Never agreed with riven disposition even being a thing from the start. I honestly think it's a complete waste of everybodies time, and I hardly even bother with rivens myself because of this exact reason. Not wasting my time on something I don't even need for it to just get nerfed once I become too reliant on it. It feels very much like indian giving, "Here, have this awsome mod. Just kidding, I want it back now". Nerfs are never, ever good no matter how you justify them and should only be done very sparingly

[AlanThicc]

Oh thank god! I'm so sick of seeing Tonkors and Orgris'ssssss in every match.

[(XBOX)satidex]

how is trading rivens before the dispo changes hit an "exploit"? you guys at DE are trying way too hard to create your own meta and control the game when you dont play it.

[Darren]

I see that everyone here is too smart, who thinks that it should just be removed from the game? Are you already considering compensation? Developers will simply go broke on this.

[Defiant_Wanderer]

To: DE

Thanks for the effort DE. Stay safe during this time. 

 

Unpopular opinion but

As a player I am fully aware that rivens will be nerfed especially the popular and OP ones. These changes are necessary for the game to become better. 

 

Personally I expected the riven changes, didn’t know when it will happen but heard it was supposed to be after the new prime access. I knew that some of my favorite weapon rivens would be nerfed. So I played with them then sold them. The pattern of Dispo changes is consistent; rivens will be changed and we know anf experience it to be approximately every 3 months.

There are a lot of people complaining. This is due to the diverse play styles, some like to always use the meta weapons and these changes affect them too. I personally like the uniqueness of each weapon (I even use the flux rifle lol) 

But I feel that as players we have acknowledge that we are taking the risk in buying and owning rivens that will be nerfed /buffed. It sucks to have my fav rivens nerfed to being useless. But this is part of the game maybe some players aren’t aware of it.

However, the fact that DE is trying out dispo changes to improve the game shows that they care.

I think the general direction is to encourage the usage of a variety of weapons not just the meta OP weapons. I like this but not everyone will. Players will be stuck on either side happy or upset about the changes. (as well as the indifferent) 

 

Maybe it can be made more prominent tot he players that they are taking the risk of owning their rivens which can nerfed and buffed. Otherwise they might have to find out through experience. (having expensive rivens turn to worthless) 

 

Thank you once again for the hard work in these tough times. 

Stay safe and God bless

 

 

[Gravemind93]

5 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Paracesis: 1->0.85

 

OOF.

Y'know it's only being used as much as is it because of the event right

Right

Because before the event it was just a Galatine clone and not actually used that much. Can't wait for it to be buffed in another, what, year? Minimum?

[Caliboom]

Can we just remove the mistake that are rivens, please?

[-HG-Lair360]

This is crazy.... they are going with the update....

 

Thanks DE for ruining everything we love!

[THeMooN85]

29 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

we all have "beloved"...gram is no exception and if it was then i would have a list of "beloved" which i would want a 1.55 dispo for then.

I'm sad! Really SAD! And upset! Really UPSET!

[WeaselBoy]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)satidex said:

how is trading rivens before the dispo changes hit an "exploit"? you guys at DE are trying way too hard to create your own meta and control the game when you dont play it.

You could compare it to the stock market. 

We forum users are those in the know, we are insiders. We know exactly what will happen to riven prices when the changes go live. Non-forum users (which is the vast majority of DE's playerbase), are unaware of the coming changes. 

DE doesn't want insider trading. And historically riven changes are announced immediately preceding a patch, not 3 hours before, so there is no time for unscrupulous marketeers to take advantage of the uninformed. 

[glubbered]

thosands of hours wasted.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

4 hours ago, Voltage said:

Riven mods are the embodiment of a time investment. Whether you work a full/part time job to buy Platinum, spend time trading for Platinum, or farm Kuva, you invest time into your Riven Mods in some fashion. We get it, Rivens are a balance fiasco. Most players gravitate towards rolling Riven Mods for weapons that are either new, good, or both. However, disposition as a mechanic fails to improve the health of Rivens, and it is just a crap-shoot from a balance perspective as well as a player time investment perspective. People will always use Rivens for inherently good weapons, and weapons such as Rubico Prime prove this. This mechanic has consistently failed since its inception years ago, and there will never be any long term benefit to these 90 day changes.

Can we please see the possible removal of disposition and see a weapons balance pass every 90 days or so? Shifting changes to actual weapon stats instead of the mods we invest in would not only benefit players, but create a healthier gear system. Investing in more gear in the game would be more appealing as the actual weapon would become more appealing and interesting to try, not just a single mod that might be nerfed again later.

The separation of disposition between weapon variants is also increasingly horrible as your Riven Mod improves. The perfect example right from this thread is Aksomati and its Prime. The Prime variant of this weapon just received another slight nerf to the disposition compared to the vanilla weapon, yet the Prime itself is hardly an upgrade in the base stats. This closes the gap in performance to an amount that makes it undesirable to even bother with a Prime variant of your favorite weapon. Why do I use Aksomati as an example? Here is why:

Aksomati:

Aksomati Prime:

Same Riven, same build. However, look how similar these weapons are in stats. This is before the Prime is losing another .05 on the disposition. This means my Prime weapon will not even hit 100% Critical Chance anymore. It just feels bad to invest into Rivens when this happens and discourages players with good Rivens to touch variant upgrades with slight status bonuses (which have been many recent variants lately). The Prime barely feels different than the vanilla weapon thanks to this difference in disposition, and this makes the upgraded version of the weapon boring and lackluster.

Hopefully you understand (from an invested Riven user) why disposition is inherently flawed and would be better suited for removal with real weapon balance passes taking place. Please start respecting the investments of players more when it comes to their gear. Riven Mods outright take the cake as the largest investment into an optimal weapon setup, and disposition only hurts this.

The other option is there outright removal 🤷‍♂️

[(XBOX)satidex]

1 minute ago, WeaselBoy said:

You could compare it to the stock market. 

We forum users are those in the know, we are insiders. We know exactly what will happen to riven prices when the changes go live. Non-forum users (which is the vast majority of DE's playerbase), are unaware of the coming changes. 

DE doesn't want insider trading. And historically riven changes are announced immediately preceding a patch, not 3 hours before, so there is no time for unscrupulous marketeers to take advantage of the uninformed. 

DE doesnt want players to have anything tbh