April 2020 Riven Disposition Updates & PC Trading PSA

[Burnsidhe]

Okay, what the hell. Everyone uses Paracesis, the anti-Sentient melee weapon, to fight Sentients in a Sentient-Focused event, therefore Paracesis gets a nerf to keep it from being used against Sentients so much? 

And other weapons Prime versions are made weaker than the base versions, the exact opposite of the intended effect of having a Prime?

Is whomever does this balancing even *aware* of these things? I'm beginning to think you're handing this off to your accountants or your legal team, instead of having an actual game developer with knowledge of the game do it.

[Anduvriel]

2 minutes ago, FlutterAi said:

Just a few thoughts here, but if, hypothetically, you were to rebalance early-game weapons to be much stronger instead of a riven's disposition on the same weapon, you'd upset the game's progression. As is, you get better weapons that are, generally, locked behind a higher resource and MR requirement. (That is, you only have access to basic weapons early on, and master more equipment to gain access to the not-so-trash weapons.) In your example, that aksomati riven still is still the largest possible buff (from a single mod) to the aksomati prime. Even if it dropped further in disposition, the riven is saving you mod slots by letting you 2-3 bonuses from a single mod. However, to the best of my understanding, the reason they even added riven mods in the first place was to make worse weapons (such as the base aksomati) more on par with the power creep and overtuned weapons.

Yeah the problem here is a bit different, the same as that aksomati prime in that example my baza prime is worse right now with the same mods and a riven than normal baza i had done before the prime hit.. Now why would i spent 4 formas and a potato on that prime when its inferior? Soon this will be the case for normal rubico and corinth (for other reasons as well).. If you count that i would not spend 180 plat worth of stuff on those primes (potatoes plus formas).. Let that sink.. 

[MagikarpOnRoids]

pointless endeavor honestly, I've invested so much of my time to grinding kuva and rerolling rivens both meta and non meta. Already 18 pages long expressing how toxic this riven system is. But DE doesn't even care to respond nor defend themselves? But what is there to defend honestly.

I really do miss the good old days when Warframe actually listened to their community feedback, which is what initially drawn me to the game. Never too late to change but its been one disappointing update after another, one nerf to another. So sad to see that DE is willingly killing their own game. 

[XelthorTheBlind]

Can I get an explanation as to why in the good name of God my Cyath was nerfed? This can't be by usage stats, I've literally never seen someone use a Cyath in game. Why did you massacre my boy?

[Me.KayOh]

10 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

I used to have some sort of endgame before. Ya know, gaming sorties to get rivens and playing arbitrations and buy kuva so i can roll my rivens to become epic.

But i've lost all motivation to do so and already stopped with that this year. Because all the good weapons (even those that nobody uses) get nerfed...and then some weapons get buffed by...*drumroll* 0.05. And OP weapons that get released freshly come with a 1.00 dispo just to bait players.

This system is leaking toxin from every corner. Dispositions have to go.

+1 Completely agree.

[hazZzard]

What's the point in having prime weapons when they are equal to the regular version with the riven? Makes prime kinda cheap...

[Me.KayOh]

2 minutes ago, (NSW)Xelthor said:

Can I get an explanation as to why in the good name of God my Cyath was nerfed? This can't be by usage stats, I've literally never seen someone use a Cyath in game. Why did you massacre my boy?

Oh...rip I didnt even notice they nerfed the Cyath too. Welp

I think I'ma just stop logging in altogether. All my favourite things which are "out of meta" and not actually overpowered, still gets hit with the nerf bat.

 

[XelthorTheBlind]

1 minute ago, Me.KayOh said:

Oh...rip I didnt even notice they nerfed the Cyath too. Welp

I think I'ma just stop logging in altogether. All my favourite things which are "out of meta" and not actually overpowered, still gets hit with the nerf bat.

 

I'm this close too. If I see this doing significantly worse than it did from before the update, I'm gonna lose it.

[WarriorSoundwave]

Gotta love how they nerfed Mire and Jaw Sword. 

Like what the actual hell DE? THEY'RE STAT STICKS. Both of those weapons are actual trash and yet you nerf them. 

But hey I guess it's only fair you invest lots of your time nerfing rivens after I invested a lot of time getting and rolling them.

[FlutterAi]

3 minutes ago, Anduvriel said:

Yeah the problem here is a bit different, the same as that aksomati prime in that example my baza prime is worse right now with the same mods and a riven than normal baza i had done before the prime hit.. Now why would i spent 4 formas and a potato on that prime when its inferior? Soon this will be the case for normal rubico and corinth (for other reasons as well).. If you count that i would not spend 180 plat worth of stuff on those primes (potatoes plus formas).. Let that sink.. 

The issue there is that the the variant isn't sharing the same disposition as the buffed variant and went too low, but that's not a problem inherent with having dispositions in general. Voltage proposed removal of dispositions and instead changing the inherent weapon stats. So, from what was suggested, sounds like the aksomati prime (and others) should be nerfed to be weaker than the base aksomati, rather than lowering the riven disposition for aksomati prime. This would result in more weapons having primes that are weaker than the basic version without a riven, which, to players still working their way to getting everything, is very backwards (and still not fixing the issue of having a riven-modded prime worse than the base weapon!). What should happen, ideally, is not rebalancing the weapons because of rivens, but making sure that disposition changes don't split so far that a prime is generally worse than its base version given the same riven mod. However, allowing the dispositions to be separate still allows earlier gear and certain non-primes to be viable when otherwise they'd be unusable.

[-AncientWarrior-]

DE should really change Warframes name to Nerf-frame .. this is why I stopped spending my money on this game.  and i did spend alot .. now its ZERO!

[Sagittarix]

8 hours ago, Voltage said:

People will always use Rivens for inherently good weapons, and weapons such as Rubico Prime or Catchmoon prove this.

This. 

[Udoshi]

8 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

• As a general rule, weapon dispositions within a certain family are still adjusted partially in relation to one another. Otherwise, most base weapons would skyrocket to 1.5, and we’d have a very strange meta on our hands!

Do it! All the lame weapons should be maxed out!

8 hours ago, Voltage said:

Can we please see the removal of disposition and see a weapons balance pass every 90 days instead? Shifting changes to actual weapon stats instead of the mods we invest in would not only benefit players, but create a healthier gear system. Investing in more gear in the game would be more appealing as the actual weapon would become more appealing and interesting to try, not just a single mod that might be nerfed again later.

 

I'd agree, mostly. Some weapons just don't hold acandle to newer ones, and a super new weapon is just going ot have more modern stats and status/crits less stuck in the days of 'oh 5%/5% is good enough', while at the same times things like oh, the Multron and Vulcax - NO riven is going to help those no matter how good it is.

My request is this: Can we set a riven disposition floor at 0.7 or so?  Past a certain point ANY riven at low dispo jus sucks and isn't worth using; leading to a cycle of
1) find the next best thing, trash its dispo down to 0.6 over the next 2-3 updates, making its dispo garbage even if its not necessarily needing one to be good
2) repeat.

All popular, good on their own weapons are taking this fate, and its dumb that more or less any nice recent weapon that doesn't have any flaws is on a steady nosedive. Its nice supra's getting some love again, for example but its been like , years at this point, and there needs to be a tapering off of 'okay its S#&$, only entheusiasts are going to keep using their fave gun, we can stop paying attention to the data there' the closer a weapon gun approaches minimum dispo.

Basically, Rubico is always going to be 0.5 because its rubico, not because of the riven making it good.

This is in part due to certain breakpoints existing, needing ot hit 100% status due to certain base amounts, or a 0.1 disposition change no longer ensuring a multishot breakpoint.

I also think there should be a meechanic to gild a riven, removing its tradability, in exchange for dispo downfall protection, but that's a conversation for another time.

 

[Herobrineez]

9 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Arca Titon: 1->1.1

Tit-on. lol its supposed to be Arca Titron

[XelthorTheBlind]

Remember boys, don't go to the Simulacrum to test these that's bad

[Hellspikez]

Are you sure you applied the recent dispositions changes correctly?

This is what my riven looked like before:

Spoiler

this is after the nerf:

Spoiler

Is this a UI problem or what? How is it possible for the stats to have been lowered by that much by a 1->0.8 change? I'm genuinely worried.

[enizer]

9 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Kuva Nukor: 1->0.8

This is equipped on kuva nukor vs not equipped..

Do I misunderstand what 1.0 - > 0.8 means?

Because this looks like MUCH more than a 20% reduction?

[(PSN)O_o_II_II_o_O]

16 minutes ago, Hellspikez said:

Are you sure you applied the recent dispositions changes correctly?

This is what my riven looked like before:

  Hide contents

this is after the nerf:

  Hide contents

Is this a UI problem or what? How is it possible for the stats to have been lowered by that much by a 1->0.8 change? I'm genuinely worried.

Yes as dispo is still high on the regular nukor, for which you see the heightened stats, yet the kuva is now much lower so the stats take a drastic fall

[Hellspikez]

1 minute ago, (PS4)O_o_II_II_o_O said:

Yes as dispo is still high on the regular nukor, for which you see the heightened stats, yet the kuva is now much lower so the stats take a drastic fall

I understand now, thank you.

[taiiat]

Quote

to protect those who might be caught unaware!

everybody that doesn't use out of game resources and calculations will be unaware, increasingly so, as Rivens for the same Weapons drift apart from one another.
sabotaging the least experienced Players, as always. but that's the status quo for Warframe most of the time. punish Players for not doing things they shouldn't have to do in the first place.

 

23 minutes ago, enizer said:

Do I misunderstand what 1.0 - > 0.8 means?

vanilla vs Kuva is currently normal Stats * 0.6896.
once this goes live, it will change to normal Stats * 0.5517.
(1.45/1.0 vs 1.45/0.8)

so whatever Stats you see Equipped on Kuva Nukor currently, Multiply by ~0.799x.

[zuraja]

1 hour ago, Burnsidhe said:

Okay, what the hell. Everyone uses Paracesis, the anti-Sentient melee weapon, to fight Sentients in a Sentient-Focused event, therefore Paracesis gets a nerf to keep it from being used against Sentients so much? 

And other weapons Prime versions are made weaker than the base versions, the exact opposite of the intended effect of having a Prime?

Is whomever does this balancing even *aware* of these things? I'm beginning to think you're handing this off to your accountants or your legal team, instead of having an actual game developer with knowledge of the game do it.

I get the impression that all they do is look at usage statistics and don't bother trying to figure out why something is used more than other things.  Rubico is another great example of this.  It gets used more than other sniper rifles because while most of them have headshot damage as their zoom bonus, it has crit damage, which is actually useful for Eidolons.  And let's be honest here, Eidolon hunting is the only time that most people bother to use a sniper rifle.  

 

And stop using Rivens as an excuse to not actually balance your weapons.

[RadYogh]

8 hours ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

no more riven trades

 

Trading veiled rivens is ok. But totally agree about disabling unveiled riven trade forever!

[taiiat]

2 minutes ago, RadYogh said:

But totally agree about disabling unveiled riven trade forever!

i don't think that would be as beneficial as you're hoping - that would mean the bottom 99% of Players, the lesser experienced ones, will effectively never get any good Rivens ever again.
while the top 1% of Players that do know what they're doing, will get the good Rivens.

[RadYogh]

42 minutes ago, Udoshi said:

Basically, Rubico is always going to be 0.5 because its rubico, not because of the riven making it good.

Is there any use for rubico except eidolons?

Sniper rifles in this "SLAUGHTER THEM ALL!!!11" game suck everywhere, except some really rare cases, like Eidolons... meybe Condrix. But many other things also work *fine* for Condrix. I did try killing arbitration drones with sniper rifles - much easier to just use some AOE weapon, because they're always moving and surrounded by other mobs... and you need to hit them twice, because of the stupid shieldgating on mobs. What else could require sniper rifle?

I totally don't undestand why DE nerfed all sniper rifle rivens and then also nerfed riven for certain sniper rifles... Sniper rifles have very limited use. And no matter with or without rives - they will be used there... well... maybe if snipetron rivens were +1000% cc&cd - people would switch from rubico to snipetron...

[(XBOX)AFutureCorruptX]

Rather than adjusting rivens every three months and upsetting players over rivens set all rivens to a disposition based off of power placement. Make 1.0 the new minimum to keep them relevant, no one wants rivens that have percentages less than the weapons regular mods and go from there. Primes have a disposition of 1 or so keeping them relevant and powerful within the 3 pip mark. Side grades such and vandals and wraiths at average of 1.25 or so keeping them and the 4 pip mark and base variants and 1.5 keeping them at the 5 pip mark. Rivens would stay relevant for all weapons even if they're already strong without them being wildly disproportionate to the rest of the power scale. Then implement a system that adjust disposition individually per player that's adjusted the rivens based off of personal usage e.g. constantly using soma prime keeps its disposition at its minimum for its power level says let's say .9 a bit less than average. If you want its dispo to go up you simply use a different primary for a period of time. This allows people who dont normally use a certain weapon to enjoy it's full potential while also convincing people to use different weapons without completely ruining their preferred or favorite weapons. They would simply need to use a new weapon for a bit a week to see their weapon have its orginal power and waiting even longer they'd see the weapons become even stronger until they decide to use it for a week straight. It would encourage using a wider variety of weapons and balance out usages a bit, and prevent those who dont really care to use rivens from diluting rivens of people who do use them.  Bare with me my knowledge of exact disposition values isnt as great I prefer the simple pip based system used in the arsenal. Forgive me if my disposition translations are off I'm sure I am.