April 2020 Riven Disposition Updates & PC Trading PSA

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

I HATE this utterly ineffective method you have of using a literal spreadsheet of player use statistics to balance things out.

What are the players supposed to take from this?  Don't waste your time investing in rivens for popular things?  Only use rivens for things that obviously aren't popular even with a high disposition because they're trash no matter what and need a proper balance pass?  If the point of these constant nerfs to the top end and pointless buffs to the bottom end aren't to try and force player choice, then what is it for?  Your joke idea of proper balance?  Obviously a weapon that is popular because it's good, doesn't need good riven disposition because only certain things are allowed to trivialize the game, right?

Thing is, several of my rivens got buffed.  Some of them I wasn't even expecting.  I still don't care, because the entire methodology and philosophy behind how you handle this is insulting and disrespectful of player's time.

The first comment made has as many +1's on it as it does for a reason.  Your system sucks, almost more than any other system in the game.

[RadYogh]

11 minutes ago, taiiat said:

i don't think that would be as beneficial as you're hoping - that would mean the bottom 99% of Players, the lesser experienced ones, will effectively never get any good Rivens ever again.
while the top 1% of Players that do know what they're doing, will get the good Rivens.

Why so?

 

And why should that matter even if that's true?

Is it better when that player "from the bottom" spends all his plat on a "good riven" and the next day that riven is getting nerfed to unusable state?

What would happen to that player "from the bottom" if he gets "good riven" and that riven stays better? He will suddenly become more experienced, top player or what? How having a good riven would help him? Riven won't fix gun that is unusable, it may improve average gun. Or make good gun do it's work a little bit better... Who of those "bottom players" does long endless missions runs where they could use that damage?

If we speak about starchart - you probably can do it with ANY weapons without potatoes and formas. How many of these "bottom" players have high enough rank to use rivens?

What stats must be on a riven to make... let's say Mk-1 braton as good as... let's say Bramma?

[Renkuya]

I don't get why we are incrementally tweaking this system when at the end of the day the system no longer represents it's intentions. There are for sure weapons that shouldn't even have rivens due to base values being insane. Meanwhile things like a Bronco Riven should be insane. Why base the riven on popularity and not just weapon power? Make it as complicated as possible with constant tweaking instead of just a one-off pass. You know what the Kuva Kohm is like, tweak the riven stats into acceptable ranges for you and just stop. Paracesis is a prime example why this is a broken idea. Sentient killing sword during a sentient event and it gets a nerf? totally out of touch there.

[Krazy-Kavat-Lady]

i am never buying rivens ever again because every time i do, the weapon that i love has its riven disposition trashed... Not to mention a lot of the time this results in the base weapons being stronger than the "prime" "vandal" or whatever versions. I also don't understand why the Shedu was lowered either, the status changes already made it less powerful. I wish the rivens would quit being tweaked because the only thing this literally does is piss off players. Why would a company want to make its loyal fan base angry over and over like this? O.o There is nothing quite like the feeling of paying hundreds of platinum for a riven just to see it be made unusable by constantly lowering its disposition (Ignis is a perfect example) regular mods should by no means be more powerful than a well rolled riven. Just leave the riven dispositions alone!!

[Makunogo]

its funny how before dispo changes was a thing. a very vocal community wanted them and wanted them often. now that its a thing people are whining, to be expected however, pretty much all the weapons that got hit do not even need are all quite strong without a riven anyway - the only thing that caught me be surprise was vectis dispo increasing i did not expect that lol. gotta roll with the punches.

i am pretty much indifferent towards dispo changes since i have already accepted the fact that they change frequently.

i have several rivens that have been changed in case anyone was wondering. both increase and decrease.

 

 

 

[Proffebolter]

.................................................. .................................................. ................................. (facepalm) Disappointing.

You have shown that the system you have right now is not working, and you have already touched the morale of many players. I have already said it on many occasions that the system was not going to work properly. But ....... Did someone listen to me? NO

I will say it in three words ....................... again "REMOVE RIVEN SYSTEM"

(Double facepalm) God I can't believe it.

 

EDIT:
 

I need a Gordon Ramsay in my rage.

[Maganar]

10 hours ago, mikakor said:

 wait, so you are preventing the system to actually fulfill what it was created for? aka giving less used weapons stronger dispo?

outstanding move.

 

could you not try to shape the meta the way you want it? if the base weapons should have a 5/5 disposition, let them have it. it's the WHOLE point of the system, and you actually skewer it because of your bias against having base weapons getting strong dispo. this is completely backward. it's truly a shame that you flat out admit to artificially limit the riven dispo of certain weapons because you don't WANT them to be stronger, even if by the very definition of the system you created, they should be.

The point of the system is to give unpopular families of weapons a chance, not to make some base variant Aksomati you can purchase the blueprint for with credits more powerful than the prime version that requires unlocking through relics or trading with other players to obtain - which isn't a theoretical possibility, but something clearly demonstrated with a real riven in the first post (and it's not the only one like that, just the only one you can easily refer to on this post).  The system was never designed to make base variants more powerful than upgrade variants of weapons, which is what you seem to be implying and that is simultaneously untrue and unwise to do.

The point of rivens is to prevent shaping the meta, not to actively discourage acquiring the more prestigious variants of weapons.  The differences in disposition among variants should be eliminated wholesale rather than exacerbated to create monstrous and highly abuse-capable stat-sticks out of weapon base variants.  And that is precisely what would happen if you had your way.

[King_Flounder]

Half of these changes are you guys undoing changes you have done in the past. At this point I am gonna ask that you please stop or rework the riven system itself. 

Opticor, baza, astilla are all things you are undoing if you want examples. Now, I do want to temper this comment with some reason. Status changes were massive and these changes to riven were very required for some. 

[(PSN)thegarada]

9 hours ago, ToKeSia said:

scoliac is still missing . 

believe me , it will go down to 0.5 , one day

Ya, but this is not the issue. I have riven for Gram prime, Hate Prime and Orthos (and bunch of other melee weapons that do not matter as much). All three weapons have similar damage outputs without rivens (Gram prime a bit higher). Due to dispos, before the patch, with BiS rolled rivens, Gram prime was dealing between 70-80% more damage compared to Orthos prime. I expected that Gram prime would go below 1.0 and Orthos Prime buffed around 1.0. Instead gram prime nerf was so weak 1.44-1.25. Hate similar change. Orthos from 0.5 to 0.55. What the #*!% is this? Dude, the melee balance update was a cascading event to melee weapons. The melee weapons dispos (which was supposed to be released 3 month ago) was supposed to adjust dispos to normalize weapons damage after the melee rework. This ended-up mostly 0.05 adjustments to melee weapons, basically useless.

I normally supportive of DE, but this is extremely lazy. This patch was supposed to normalize melee weapons. It should not be a 2 year exercise... Highly disappointed.

[King_Flounder]

After reading through all of the riven changes. And yes i mean all. I realized you guys have removed dispo 5. at least true dispo 1.5. Can you please remove dispo 1 as well? 

You have nerfed or reworked anything that hit dispo .5 why not do the same for dispo 5 weapons. 

Also, dispo 1.5 really only affects stat stick users. Can you please just buff frames that still have stat sticks and let us mod them directly? Like an exaulted weapons. 

[DissentWomble]

31 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

its funny how before dispo changes was a thing. a very vocal community wanted them and wanted them often. now that its a thing people are whining, to be expected however, pretty much all the weapons that got hit do not even need are all quite strong without a riven anyway - the only thing that caught me be surprise was vectis dispo increasing i did not expect that lol. gotta roll with the punches.

i am pretty much indifferent towards dispo changes since i have already accepted the fact that they change frequently.

i have several rivens that have been changed in case anyone was wondering. both increase and decrease.

 

 

 

Its pretty obvious how it works though. Say 40% of the player base is not happy with rivens, 40% are happy so they have nothing to complain, 20% are indifferent or just still new to the game. The ones aren't happy with the riven system were the ones barking before the system change, the ones barking now are the ones that were happy and was enjoying said system but now are voicing their discontent because dispo changes are screwing them over. 

On topic : Please buff Lesion more and thanks for the Twin Basolk buff.

[(PSN)crazy405pluto]

hace 8 horas, Amadurim dijo:

Riven system is already flawed from the concept. It add layer of rng on top of rng. Riven system DOES NOT respect time and effort put. Sure if you count the endo from dissolving, but whether you put 3500 kuva or 350000 kuva or even enough for 500 rolls, the result will always be the same. It's like doing 1000 forma, nothing but numbers to flex on.

If riven stats can be locked or be controlled in some ways, god rivens would largely based on effort rather than some dumb luck.

Think about it DE, riven system is one of parasite that constantly degrading the game. It's developer's responsibility to make the game better but it's not community who has the power to do so, we give feedback, for the game that you developers made, that's the most we can do. Now, it is time. Listen, and make the game healthier -or- Ignore, and let your own arrogance be your downfall. 

Even if the self-understanding of this phase is not possible, it is true, we still have to admit that it hurts, but we must do our part and support this without any complaint why it is totally acceptable that you are right.

[KagaNerdy]

Thank you for nerfing my Baza Prime
There goes my plats

[AutumnRhey]

Thank god I'm not alone in wanting them to just get rid of rivens entirely. I've been saying this since they were added. It's a terrible system that has taken over trading and doesn't even do what it was supposed to anymore. It needs to just either go away entirely or at the least rivens need to not be tradeable.

[ToKeSia]

57 minutes ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

Ya, but this is not the issue. I have riven for Gram prime, Hate Prime and Orthos (and bunch of other melee weapons that do not matter as much). All three weapons have similar damage outputs without rivens (Gram prime a bit higher). Due to dispos, before the patch, with BiS rolled rivens, Gram prime was dealing between 70-80% more damage compared to Orthos prime. I expected that Gram prime would go below 1.0 and Orthos Prime buffed around 1.0. Instead gram prime nerf was so weak 1.44-1.25. Hate similar change. Orthos from 0.5 to 0.55. What the #*!% is this? Dude, the melee balance update was a cascading event to melee weapons. The melee weapons dispos (which was supposed to be released 3 month ago) was supposed to adjust dispos to normalize weapons damage after the melee rework. This ended-up mostly 0.05 adjustments to melee weapons, basically useless.

I normally supportive of DE, but this is extremely lazy. This patch was supposed to normalize melee weapons. It should not be a 2 year exercise... Highly disappointed.

it's 0.05 because orthos still popular that why it is not 0.5 > 0.7 but 0.5 > 0.55 instead, did you forget orthos prime got buffed from melee rework that why it become popular now. If it didn't change stats on melee rework, its stats will still be that low, and i guess u won't use it either even riven disposition increased.

[ToKeSia]

1 hour ago, krazybatlady said:

i am never buying rivens ever again because every time i do, the weapon that i love has its riven disposition trashed... Not to mention a lot of the time this results in the base weapons being stronger than the "prime" "vandal" or whatever versions. I also don't understand why the Shedu was lowered either, the status changes already made it less powerful. I wish the rivens would quit being tweaked because the only thing this literally does is piss off players. Why would a company want to make its loyal fan base angry over and over like this? O.o There is nothing quite like the feeling of paying hundreds of platinum for a riven just to see it be made unusable by constantly lowering its disposition (Ignis is a perfect example) regular mods should by no means be more powerful than a well rolled riven. Just leave the riven dispositions alone!!

then play weapons with not famous, and u like it ! , well u know ignis is VERY popular right ? and riven is made for weapons who has unpopular uses.

[grindbert]

well, good thing i sold all my rivens and use them as a trade commodity only. i'm still making thousands of plat, i just don't have to bother with DE #*!%ing up dozens of hours of work.

 

we have to accept that for DE your time is and has always been worth #*!% all. we also have to accept that warframe is not meant to be a game about improving your gear any more, it's about either time- or money gates and draining money from roleplayers through fashionframe. you're not supposed to play it, you're supposed to swipe your credit card and play barbie dress up doll.

my tip to veterans: get rid of the rivens, get rid of the weapons which actually need them and just bathe in the platinum you gain from those morons who still invest time and effort into trying to minmax their gear. or just get rid of the game and play either destiny 2 or the plethora of games that actually value your time.

 

PS: tl:dr: i feel like my time investment is being constantly devalued by DE and their utter incompetence to deal with their own failures and their repetition of the same mechanisms over and over although they're clearly not working. time is the most precious commodity in this world and people who don't value yours do not deserve it. warframe is clearly in decline and DE are desperate to keep the money flowing and sacrificing their long term viability. The player base is dwindling and the consequence of their failures is the increased speed at which this happens. this is a vicious circle of their own doing and we are not responsible for their mismanagement and wrong choices. it's time to let go. 

[0_The_F00l]

I am normally not one to concern myself with the changes and posting in riven update threads. 

 

But I am disappointed by some of the statements made, 

The purpose of the changes was to give all weapons a fighting chance, yet it is clearly mentioned here that you are intentionally holding back on giving base weapons a higher disposition. 

 

What the hell are you thinking? That you can shape the Meta?

Please do not., the Meta is shaped by the actual game changes. Shoehorning thr weapon stats through a purple card will only show your bias and lack of understanding of your own game. 

[grindbert]

2 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

snip

in order to give some weapons a fighting chance .... how about ... you know ... balancing the weapon instead?

you know ... the immediate and most logical conclusion to a problem De made themselves.

[Makunogo]

9 minutes ago, grindbert said:

in order to give some weapons a fighting chance .... how about ... you know ... balancing the weapon instead?

you know ... the immediate and most logical conclusion to a problem De made themselves.

is that not the main point of a prime version? 

i don't think the non prime needs to be as good as prime with a riven. otherwise what would be the point of a prime lol.

however a slightly higher dispo on non prime vs a insanely large gap as they mentioned is also not ideal.

for example Tigris with dispo 1.5 and tigris prime at 0.5 would make Tigris prime completly obsolete which is what i think they mean and want to avoid when they mention having the disposition in variants no too far apart 

the prime should be an upgrade the normal version which presumably you get first should be a taste of what the prime can offer. the slightly higher dispo on non prime just gives it a bit more bang for your buck, the prime gets a bit lower dispo because its an upgrade and does not need the huge boost.

of course this only really applies to weapons with varients. and i do not know the entire context of whatever was snipped*

[0_The_F00l]

8 minutes ago, grindbert said:

in order to give some weapons a fighting chance .... how about ... you know ... balancing the weapon instead?

you know ... the immediate and most logical conclusion to a problem De made themselves.

Please read the whole post, that is what I am implying. 

[grindbert]

52 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

is that not the main point of a prime version? 

no, the main point of a prime version is to be able to sell the same thing twice. similar as to why developers are pulling their games from Gforce now. 

De can simply make more money or sink more existing plat into the void if they offer people to buy the same thing twice, slightly tweaked, with minimal effort. with the dispositions they pull a double whammy on us. They have us buy the first thing that many players discard due to weapon slots costing plat, then they have us buy the better version of it and then they nerf the better version to make us reacquire the initial purchase. they set up a mechanism which enables us to buy the same thing 3 times which maximizes their profit since a certain amount of players will do that with plat. and if we play it "smart" and hoard things we are buying slots. and if we actually farm it we spend time in the game which exposes us to things we might want and might buy. basic f2p marketing phychology. the house always wins. it's digital planned obsolescence on crack.

  

50 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Please read the whole post, that is what I am implying. 

i don't need to. you're still under the illusion that anything in this game happens for other reasons than maximizing profit. that they actually care about things like balance. that is simply not the case. warframe is in decline so they have to come up with methods how to milk their player base enough to have a financial cushion for when warframe is no longer profitable. this isn't the first game or company that followed that path. this is an old pattern hundreds of online games have gone through. but because no developer that has created something they are proud of seems to be able to think about a time when that thing is no longer relevant they ride the wave for a few years, suddenly see a decline and go into panic mode and try to appease their audience with quantity instead of quality (look at the major updates after fortuna) which causes them to lose even more players (as warframe indeed did) so they go into ultra-panic mode and try to squeeze their remaining player base as much as they can in order to be able to stay afloat and produce adequate return on investment for their owners.

seen it so many times now, i can see the amount of panic and desperation in the patch notes like a soothsayer in tea leaves or whatever those hippie witches use.

[Makunogo]

9 minutes ago, grindbert said:

no, the main point of a prime version is to be able to sell the same thing twice. similar as to why developers are pulling their games from Gforce now. 

De can simply make more money or sink more existing plat into the void if they offer people to buy the same thing twice, slightly tweaked, with minimal effort. with the dispositions they pull a double whammy on us. They have us buy the first thing that many players discard due to weapon slots costing plat, then they have us buy the better version of it and then they nerf the better version to make us reacquire the initial purchase. they set up a mechanism which enables us to buy the same thing 3 times which maximizes their profit since a certain amount of players will do that with plat. and if we play it "smart" and hoard things we are buying slots. and if we actually farm it we spend time in the game which exposes us to things we might want and might buy. basic f2p marketing phychology. the house always wins. it's digital planned obsolescence on crack.

who is buying weapons twice? i craft my sh*t lol. 

also everything is subject to change. nothing can be done about it just have to accept that lol.

either way they are still a business so obviously there will be some form of monetization..

however that was not the point i was making...

imo your response is a completly different topic unrelated to my response >.>

id also like to add actually. 

i would rather variants (prime/vandal/kuva ect) come out than new weapons in terms of efficiency that is less rivens i have to buy lol. 

[Exodess]

For all the reasons outlined thus far in this thread and then some, the band-aid that is the Riven disposition system has clearly outlived its usefulness.

DE, please consider a rework on how you handle weapon balancing. The Riven system is not feasible as it stands and is clearly a distraction from either content development or better incentives for wielding less popular weaponry.

[grindbert]

7 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

who is buying weapons twice? i craft my sh*t lol. 

now who isn't reading everything?

if you craft things you spend time in the game, time in the game is exposure time and exposure time is basically free advertising. and even if you don't buy anything, somebody will (you are not the center of the universe and how you do things is not representative of how others do things). 

 

i'm not saying that they don't need monetization. i never said that, what the hell are you talking about?

but there are ways to set up a business so it's stable long term and realize that no video game ever will last forever. warframe is old. and it did well, it stayed profitable for 7 years and will probably stay that way for a few more. but they do notice a steady decline so the squeeze will become tighter which ultimately will kill off the player base.

my response is on point. read the second part. you're saying i gave the wrong answer, i'm saying you ask the wrong question.