the lack of difficulty is driving me away

[Twistedsparkle]

this is not news
the game has been too easy without much requirement for any thought for years

too many times I notice myself going on autopilot

so why have I kept on playing this game for 7 years?
I love the story, I love the concept and theres soo much potential for this to be an awesome skill based shooter

but that potential is just never met

Ive had hope but lately the term "warframe and chill" has really become a thing
I thought I could adapt to it and just let go of my fantasy playing a super fast paced skill based ninja shooter

but then Doom Eternal came out
a game that made my heart race with each enemy encounter and DEMANDED my attenttion span to be absolutely focused

after that game I tried playing not just warframe but many other shooters and they just feel really boring compared to what I just experienced in Doom eternal
warframe being maybe the worst offender

now we have the event scarlet spear with really nice rewards but.... I am not having a good time
I feel like Im just spending my time farming points rather being in a war with the sentients
everyone is cheesing the absolute hell outta the mode and its just not demanding any of my thought process at all

the worst part is that my feedback is not relevant (been posting feedback on the lack of difficulty for years)
the community has already embraced the powercreep and wouldnt have it any other way

me who since the beginning who just wanted to see awesome skill based shooter come to life this is how I feel
I have no place anymore , I am not welcome ,the game is not for me and it doesnt even try to cater to me

I do hope that I am wrong
I really want to enjoy this game but for now I maybe have to just let go and keep an extended break and see how the game evolves during the year

[DrivaMain]

It’s a lost cause, DE kept catering to the casual player base and the hard truth they are the majority. It’s impossible to add challenge where the majority coming to DE with pitchforks and torches to demand them to make it easier or more casual.

Edited April 10, 2020 by DrivaMain

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

Well despite the fact the casuals have a whole game to go through DE hates its veterans and doesn't want to give them difficult content to sink their teeth into. Maybe if DE knew what was good for them they would have made some difficult content and kept their vets around but more and more are leaving. This comes from a former veteran by the way so I put up with alot of nerfing of difficult content in the name of the scrubs. Best to just quit the game friend, you will thank me...

[Cpl_Facehugger]

If you think the game is too easy, perhaps you should refrain from using casual crutches to trivialize the content? Maybe try some non-meta builds?

Maybe try solo play if other players' cheese is bothersome?

Because let's be real here, there's only so many ways to cater to masochists and casuals at the same time, and the casuals are a much bigger slice of the player (and payer) base so DE will always cater to them first. Warframe isn't marketed as Dark Souls in Space, it's marketed as a beer and pretzels power fantasy type game, so it mostly attracts people who want that.

I guess what I'm saying here is that someone who goes out of their way to cheese content doesn't have anyone but himself to blame if the game is too easy, in much the same way someone playing classic doom doesn't have anyone to blame but himself if he turns on iddqd and finds that the enemies aren't challenging enough.

 

[Shafara]

This. Agree with you on this. Power creeps has been off the charts since the introduction of primed mods.
Even im trying to play a non meta build on ESO and can still solo wave 8 with Vauban/Revenant/Mirage and sometimes Khora.
It hard to reach a balance and create content with proper management/mentality on how the game was designed.
I've been talking on discord with my mates about how warframe need STATS-SQUISH on at the very least mod values. Warframe power creeps comes from modding the arsenal.
Makes every mods out there halves their value. [Adaptation] from total of 90% to 50% max. [Serration] from 165% to 90% or something. Dual stats mods from 60/60 to 40/40. Same goes for absurd numbers on mods out there like [Split Flight].

More fun randomization in the stats is also good for the game. It makes player who have loves for the weapon invested more into the weapon. Currently every weapon have its own static amount of stats and its only customization is forma to get more polarization and extra pexilus mod with some same old alt-fire system which is expected and gonna get boring from here. Any weapon with 20%++ CC 20%++ SC and 100++ base damage is absolute OP on arrival based on how modding works.
For example, currently Braton Prime have static 12% CC and 26% Status.
Gives every weapon a set amount of Min/Max value on specific stats. Like Braton Prime can have 12%-17% CC and 24% - 28% SC or any kind of available stats after claiming it from the foundry. Forma or a special new kind of forma can randomize these stats without resetting its rank or polarization.
Makes alt-fire in a weapon as a mod for every type of weapon. Let me choose whether I want my Kuva Bramma to act like Lenz explosion or Bramma Cluster.
Same goes for Warframe, every new warframe now is just not seen after 1 month unless it can provide energy or heal allies. Have you seen alot of Gauss lately?
My idea is to add another special abilities slot. Makes warframe choose what skill it want to equip. Back in the day we have to slot the abilities for the warframe be able to allow to cast it.
Now add an alternatives to warframe existing abilities. The only one I can think of right now is a alternative to excalibur exalted blade which instead summon 3 AI sword (moddable like exalted blade) that do the killing for you while you're freely using your primaries. Does have to put an alternative to all abilities tho, just the one that sorely needs it and change the warframe play style from time to time.

Some of these idea might not makes sense since how it will break the game code or in need of another whole game to make it. Just an idea how to make the game fun again.
Crafting and Enemy AI is another type of challenge lol. With how challenge customization as it is now. No wonder fashion-frame endgame is no longer a running joke in the community. Its actually true.
 

[(PSN)DARK_WIZARD999]

I think the entire design theory would need to be rooted up and remade into Warframe 2.

DE STILL has an army of players that will defend them and their bad decisions with the usual "just have fun", "stop complaining it's free", "why so serious", lethargy and indifference. 

Like Destiny, they won't learn or change unless they HAVE to, or the free to play model is finally ditched. It's brought nothing but initially good ideas being hollowed out and turned into western gatchas.

Edited April 12, 2020 by (PS4)DARK_WIZARD999

[kevoisvevo]

You should try quake and unreal tournament.

[Yamazuki]

5 hours ago, Cpl_Facehugger said:

If you think the game is too easy, perhaps you should refrain from using casual crutches to trivialize the content? Maybe try some non-meta builds?

Maybe try solo play if other players' cheese is bothersome?

Because let's be real here, there's only so many ways to cater to masochists and casuals at the same time, and the casuals are a much bigger slice of the player (and payer) base so DE will always cater to them first. Warframe isn't marketed as Dark Souls in Space, it's marketed as a beer and pretzels power fantasy type game, so it mostly attracts people who want that.

I guess what I'm saying here is that someone who goes out of their way to cheese content doesn't have anyone but himself to blame if the game is too easy, in much the same way someone playing classic doom doesn't have anyone to blame but himself if he turns on iddqd and finds that the enemies aren't challenging enough.

 

Using inefficient weapons or Warframes doesn't make the game harder, all it does it make each run slower. Unless your suggestion is, "don't use mods", in which case, same thing. Most missions the only fail condition is running out of revives, but using a glass cannon Warfame doesn't mean you die unless you intentionally sit in one spot getting hit.

There's also a difference between some difficulty, no difficulty. Warframe could see an increase in difficulty, but just enough to require paying attention, it doesn't have to be insane levels of difficulty, especially when most forms of difficulty is entirely artificial, or becomes easy when you memorize patterns; most action combat games that are "difficult" are only difficult for people who have little experience with the combat due to the vast majority of non-shooters being turn based or target based.

[LuckyCharm]

Theres a difference between power fantasy and godmode tbh... Its one thing to be powerful and fight against a hoarde and win with a chance of death, and completely another to fight that same hoarde with what feels like the cheats enabled where no matter if you screw up you wont die and enemies all disappear with one button

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

You're on the minority, seriously, I couldn't care less and I'm very certain that at least 75% of the fanbase doesn't care too. Just play DOOM then, not every game has to be difficult and that's coming from a guy that has beaten all souls franchise (on DS3 alone I have more than 60 NG's in the same character), Sekiro, Hollow Knight, Celeste and basically any hardcore game you can imagine. 

Want a Hardcore game? Find one for yourself, Warframe is a power fantasy in the molds of Warriors Orochi.

Edited April 11, 2020 by (XB1)XG1anBl4derX

[Femuru]

13 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

It’s a lost cause, DE kept catering to the casual player base and the hard truth they are the majority. It’s impossible to add challenge where the majority coming to DE with pitchforks and torches to demand them to make it easier or more casual.

no lets be honest DE doesnt know how to cater to the casual audience in a sense either really 

10 hours ago, Cpl_Facehugger said:

If you think the game is too easy, perhaps you should refrain from using casual crutches to trivialize the content? Maybe try some non-meta builds?

Maybe try solo play if other players' cheese is bothersome?

Because let's be real here, there's only so many ways to cater to masochists and casuals at the same time, and the casuals are a much bigger slice of the player (and payer) base so DE will always cater to them first. Warframe isn't marketed as Dark Souls in Space, it's marketed as a beer and pretzels power fantasy type game, so it mostly attracts people who want that.

I guess what I'm saying here is that someone who goes out of their way to cheese content doesn't have anyone but himself to blame if the game is too easy, in much the same way someone playing classic doom doesn't have anyone to blame but himself if he turns on iddqd and finds that the enemies aren't challenging enough.

 

if a game require the players to "nerf" themselves to gain a better experience, that is simply bad game design but even then ppl have and its still the same loop that only takes longer which only burns ppl out even faster on tolerance. play solo? sure i wouldnt mind that but is the solo experience of the game even up to par either then? no its not and by that point itll be more worth it to pay for a genuine solo player game and so forth telling other ppl to not throw their time away to begin with on the game then and itll continue to spiral this way unless something is properly done. ppl who cheese the content arent to blame, the ppl who designed it to be that way are. 

a game doesnt have to be dark souls difficulty to be good and i even said this a few times in the past, what matter is the design philosophy and how well they implement it. stuff such as scaling, ehp values, damage system, mechanics, enemy ai are all basic foundations to many games but warframe throw all of that out the window and created a mess. whats so hard at just fixing the most basics of basics for so many years when they well already have the funds and slowly gaining the man power to do so? not only that to this very day they havent even decided on what they wanted the game to be if they just plain out tell or even just designed it to then the player base could actually consistently give more positive feedback rather than butting heads every day these past years cuz nothing is clear nor do they make any sense of it. power fantasy? ok lets nerf stuff that barely effect stuff and just trivial. difficulty? ok lets leave the nuking, cheesing, and bad enemies. veterans? no lets not make endgame and make it easy for anyone to do. noobies? no lets leave the horrible new player experience and create a gameplay loop where u need to use the wiki more to play right. want a shooter? nah it barely focus on gunplay nor is it well designed. story? nah 2nd dream was a hit but after was just poorly transitioned while ppl have to invest nearly 100hrs just to know whats going on. exploration? nah lets use the same tiles where u have zero interaction and only need to speed run it. action? nah its just a cookie clicker of press 4 nuke, sleep, repeat.

even then there are games out there that can cater to both the casual AND competitive community at the same time, they dont always need the flashiest trailer or graphics but what matter is the gameplay and warframe has so many holes that ppl been explaining about for so long already. warframe is the exact opposite by trying to somehow please everyone at once that they fail to please anyone at all by tossing shoddy work. a game thats hard to learn but easy to master is what it is, if they make a game with a learning curve that originally hard to tackle at the start to only throw it all in the trash by leaving many horrible designs of cheesing because all they can do is amp up numbers on many horrible designs of enemies rather than functions and mechanics. if none of these matter then how did a game like anthem fail with such nice looking graphics? simple cuz they ignored all the mechanical functions for proper game design, warframe is just lucky that they arent in that state but here is the thing they relied only on luck by tossing things by a whim rather than a vision and itll only slowly crumble that way.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

5 hours ago, Yamazuki said:

Using inefficient weapons or Warframes doesn't make the game harder, all it does it make each run slower.

How are you defining "harder" then? Because to me giving the enemy more opportunity to kill the player by virtue of not obliterating them in moments with a kuva bramma or something would certainly make the game harder.

The thing here is that the strength of the mod system is that it's hugely customizable. If you find your current build makes things too easy, there's plenty of other builds you can try that might be far more fun for you. Or to put it another way, when someone optimizes their builds to trivialize a given piece of content... Surprise surprise, that content gets trivialized. Perhaps try not optimizing builds to trivialize content and see what happens? Perhaps try some "suboptimal" builds? Maybe not min/max with corrupted mods and only keep the ruthlessly optimal build in reserve in case you find content that you want to trivialize?

I mean, we're talking cheese here. There's very few games indeed that don't have cheesy strats. Even games that have gone well out of their way to avoid cheese like Doom Eternal still have cheese (ssg -> ballista marauder stunlock for example), so this whole objection to nerfing onesself seems very silly to me. It's not nerfing yourself to not rely on cheesy strategies.

 

15 minutes ago, SutomuDrgn said:

if a game require the players to "nerf" themselves to gain a better experience, that is simply bad game design but even then ppl have and its still the same loop that only takes longer which only burns ppl out even faster on tolerance. play solo? sure i wouldnt mind that but is the solo experience of the game even up to par either then? no its not and by that point itll be more worth it to pay for a genuine solo player game and so forth telling other ppl to not throw their time away to begin with on the game then and itll continue to spiral this way unless something is properly done. ppl who cheese the content arent to blame, the ppl who designed it to be that way are. 

I wouldn't say it requires you to nerf yourself, I'd say it simply requires you to not go out of your way to embrace cheese builds. You're starting from the assumption that the cheese is what you should aspire to, then complaining that the content you just trivialized isn't fun. Clearly if you're not having fun, perhaps you shouldn't be holding up cheese strategies as the be all and end all of warframe gameplay? There's tons of builds, many of them quite fun, that don't involve trivializing content. That's like complaining that Doom 2016 is boring crap because it's possible to trivialize the entire game with siege mode gauss or the SSG, making all the other weapons worthless.

Also, solo not up to par? I personally find it more fun to solo most of the time. No lag, no disconnects or host issues. No dealing with bad pugs.

Finally though, I disagree completely with "people who cheese the content aren't to blame". Because most games have a cheese strategy. Again, Doom Eternal is widely considered to be pretty difficult and well balanced, yet it still has its cheese. Destiny has its cheese. Borderlands has its cheese. Dark Souls has cheese. I honestly can't think of a single game that doesn't have cheese to one extent or another. Perhaps one could make an argument that Warframe's cheese is cheesier than others, but once again there's something very silly in complaining about how the content is trivial after trying very hard to optimize builds to make it so, and if cheese is an inevitable fact of life, and I think it is, complaining about it won't really make things better. Just result in nerfs that ruin the things that are in a good place as collateral damage. I'd ask if you remember Vivergate where that happened, but I suspect that was before your time.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Cpl_Facehugger

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

I like the game how it is.  That's WHY I've been around 7 years.

Tbh all you so called vets who scream for change are the ones that would kill this game, not the other way around.  

You played 7 years but didn't like it?  Cool, leave it alone for those of us who do.  I don't think every game has to be difficult or challenging, I don't think every game needs to demand intensive skill based gameplay.  Sometimes just being to shred mobs of weak enemies is fun for some people.   

It's like you said, DE clearly doesn't intend on changing this - the vast majority of us like it like this.  The only "difficult" content they've ever mustered up has frankly turned out to be incredibly unfun... it's almost like challenging and difficult experiences don't always translate to fun.

I hate the Dark Souls series for what its done to gaming... can't just enjoy a casual lax experience anymore these days, everything has to be mindnumbingly difficult or its "boring" to today's generation of gamers.   Same complaint, every game, not just Warframe.  Nothing is ever difficult enough and everytime a game caters to these people it inevitably dies.  

Edited April 11, 2020 by (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z

[Alpha_Tango]

I boot up this game to blow off steam from failing on "real" difficult games. Like after losing battles in World of Tanks where 15 vs.15 PvP action mayhem is king and a mixed sense of triumph, anger and fear can be condensed in a just a few minutes.  Or when I cannot get pass a boss fight for the nth time in FFXIV ARR where "real" squad mistakes are punished severely. Where roles are defined and met with a sense of responsibility/mastery so you can't be a liability.  No Saryns or Limbos to kill off anyone else fun space. 

Just face the truth, WF is too casual to change now. I knew that the moment I learned PvP in WF is practically dead and the healing/revive/death mechanics doesn't mean squat in remotely affecting any chance to fail. The few sliver of hope of challenging content just ends up being systematically killed off too to make "everyone" a happy godly Tenno (e.g.real death mechanic in arbitration and the arrival of Little Duck's arcane emporium bypassing the need to do Eidolon hunting).

 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Alpha_Tango

[DOOMPATRIOT]

17 hours ago, Cpl_Facehugger said:

If you think the game is too easy, perhaps you should refrain from using casual crutches to trivialize the content? Maybe try some non-meta builds?

Maybe try solo play if other players' cheese is bothersome?

What do you mean, everything in Warframe is broken compared to enemies (specially more now since the spectacular nerf to enemies), dmg doesn't mean anything in Warframe anymore, you can go unmodded throught all the start chart (the grendel missions approve that), the mission types are so easy that there is no way to fail them (except for Wyrmius, yes the minigame), if any of that isn't bad game design, then I don't know what that is, you shouldn't be able to do the entire start chart without mods.

The only true meta I can think of in Warframe would be Nekros for farming resources, everything else really doesn't matter what you use as long as you have any kind of set up.

Also no, Warframe wasn't marketed as "power- fantasy" or grindfest (that started with Plains of Eidolon), DE not being able to see beyond the grind and "aSsEtS", here we are now, Players stop playing (yes, they might come back, as always) because either they have completed all they wanted to complete or just doesn't know why play it if it has no sustainable longetivity.

Don't blame it on the '"cheese", blame it on DE, if Wyrmius is the hardest thing in your game, then it should be pretty obvious something is not right in your game...

[m0b1us1]

12 hours ago, Cpl_Facehugger said:

If you think the game is too easy, perhaps you should refrain from using casual crutches to trivialize the content? Maybe try some non-meta builds?

Maybe try solo play if other players' cheese is bothersome?

Because let's be real here, there's only so many ways to cater to masochists and casuals at the same time, and the casuals are a much bigger slice of the player (and payer) base so DE will always cater to them first. Warframe isn't marketed as Dark Souls in Space, it's marketed as a beer and pretzels power fantasy type game, so it mostly attracts people who want that.

I guess what I'm saying here is that someone who goes out of their way to cheese content doesn't have anyone but himself to blame if the game is too easy, in much the same way someone playing classic doom doesn't have anyone to blame but himself if he turns on iddqd and finds that the enemies aren't challenging enough.

 

I have beaten every boss solo with all 4 dragon keys equipped on meta and non-meta frames alike. I have even started doing this all over again but limiting myself on mod slots.

If I have to go to that extreme to find any difficulty, that should tell you something. The difficulty isn't even game play, its figuring out builds to do it. Once I figure out the build, then its not hard, it just takes a while.

What DE fails to do time and time again is to provide a place that rewards stronger players for their mastery and knowledge of the game. Ever since eidolons came out, every single change has been "new player friendly". The removal of trials was done to push arcanes as a reward onto them to make them more accessible to new players. What are the older players left with for their "difficulty"? Having to put horrid restrictions on themselves just to make something trivial, not as trivial.

Older players did all the stuff in warframe, developed amazing builds for weapons and frames, ready to take on something difficult, and DE just keeps saying "no, we are going to make even easier content". I don't know if you watch the prime times or devstreams, but even watching them, you can tell that what DE considers as "difficult", is trivial at best to stronger players. Remember how they tried to pass off SO and ESO as the new "end game" after they removed trials? It didn't take all but a week after it was bug fixed before it was considered nothing more than a place to level gear or farm focus. What DE thought of as "end game" was a mere leveling place to us. Let that sink in for a while. 

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

25 minutes ago, m0b1us1 said:

I have beaten every boss solo with all 4 dragon keys equipped on meta and non-meta frames alike. I have even started doing this all over again but limiting myself on mod slots.

If I have to go to that extreme to find any difficulty, that should tell you something. The difficulty isn't even game play, its figuring out builds to do it. Once I figure out the build, then its not hard, it just takes a while.

What DE fails to do time and time again is to provide a place that rewards stronger players for their mastery and knowledge of the game. Ever since eidolons came out, every single change has been "new player friendly". The removal of trials was done to push arcanes as a reward onto them to make them more accessible to new players. What are the older players left with for their "difficulty"? Having to put horrid restrictions on themselves just to make something trivial, not as trivial.

Older players did all the stuff in warframe, developed amazing builds for weapons and frames, ready to take on something difficult, and DE just keeps saying "no, we are going to make even easier content". I don't know if you watch the prime times or devstreams, but even watching them, you can tell that what DE considers as "difficult", is trivial at best to stronger players. Remember how they tried to pass off SO and ESO as the new "end game" after they removed trials? It didn't take all but a week after it was bug fixed before it was considered nothing more than a place to level gear or farm focus. What DE thought of as "end game" was a mere leveling place to us. Let that sink in for a while. 

Here's another thing as well, on Dev mode they are invincible and that is all they ever play on. If they didn't have it on it would show how little they actually play their own game and just plain suck at it even on trivial content. It is hard to understand true difficulty when you suck so badly you and cant relate to your veterans on any level. I noticed this way back before I quit and it is still obvious whenever I occasionally step by to see what's going on and they play quite pathetically even compared to an average player XD

[Femuru]

2 hours ago, Cpl_Facehugger said:

I wouldn't say it requires you to nerf yourself, I'd say it simply requires you to not go out of your way to embrace cheese builds. You're starting from the assumption that the cheese is what you should aspire to, then complaining that the content you just trivialized isn't fun. Clearly if you're not having fun, perhaps you shouldn't be holding up cheese strategies as the be all and end all of warframe gameplay? There's tons of builds, many of them quite fun, that don't involve trivializing content. That's like complaining that Doom 2016 is boring crap because it's possible to trivialize the entire game with siege mode gauss or the SSG, making all the other weapons worthless.

Also, solo not up to par? I personally find it more fun to solo most of the time. No lag, no disconnects or host issues. No dealing with bad pugs.

Finally though, I disagree completely with "people who cheese the content aren't to blame". Because most games have a cheese strategy. Again, Doom Eternal is widely considered to be pretty difficult and well balanced, yet it still has its cheese. Destiny has its cheese. Borderlands has its cheese. Dark Souls has cheese. I honestly can't think of a single game that doesn't have cheese to one extent or another. Perhaps one could make an argument that Warframe's cheese is cheesier than others, but once again there's something very silly in complaining about how the content is trivial after trying very hard to optimize builds to make it so, and if cheese is an inevitable fact of life, and I think it is, complaining about it won't really make things better. Just result in nerfs that ruin the things that are in a good place as collateral damage. I'd ask if you remember Vivergate where that happened, but I suspect that was before your time.

do u really not get what i said they DESIGNED IT THAT WAY. they made badly designed enemies that just endlessly scale with numbers forever that at this point stat sticks are made to stat logs and just straight out shoved in their rectum and to effectively even fight these things IS TO CHEESE. things are just turned to one shot or be one shot with no incentive for strategics, teamwork, or skill but cheese. even if u nerf yurself, even if yur playing basic lvl enemies, its still the same horribly designed enemies/combat system. cheesing in this game run so much more deep in this game than any other i played but it made it its fundamentals cuz atleast without cheesing in other games they also get so many more aspects RIGHT. if ppl have a hard time in warframe, it isnt likely because of skill, its more likely because they have the wrong setup because its a numbers game not a game thats about engagement. i can get through borderlands, destiny, or doom if i simply put out some effort as a fps player, not simply because "i got the wrong setup" or "dint read the wiki". if u took the time to read my post to small detail cheesing isnt even the only point, there are SEVERAL things wrong in the game.

and again no solo isnt up to par cuz what just sit in a corner by yurself farming basic resources of which i have millions of already? still fighting the same basic dull enemies till the stat logs kick in? with a story now digressing? even then what was the point in creating it to be multiplayer then? what was the point in creating something called "open world"? if ppl wanted a real solo game id had rather buy a true solo experience game not stand in the same few tiles with no incentive for any of it.

complaining wont make things better? that. . .actually fully depends on BOTH the players AND developers cuz at the end of the day i do see bad ideas given, id see post full of censored cursing but i also see developers no longer being transparent, i see them making several mistakes, i see them ignoring everything, i now even think theyre just chasing after money at this point. criticism is GOOD for a game cuz it means they can figure out WHY their game truly fail in the future and if ppl really think games survive based on gaming articles or youtube videos reputation then sorry those ppl are WRONG. games like sekiro got nothing but silly controversial topics bashing the game but guess what because it was GOOD it got game of the year and was the one of from software best sellers, warframe had NOTHING but praise and still turned out this way (dont tell me those "negative videos" with only 20k views max managed to kill a game with about 30 MILLION registered users with not only 5% of that still playing when also positive reviews average around 5 million)

you know what games did so famn horrible that they were nothing but memes? games like no man sky, final fantasy 14, rainbow six but you know whats the difference between them and warframe? they realized their mistakes, they took in all those thrown tomatoes of criticism, and they worked to fix the game PROPERLY not some random patches but actual real fixes to flaws that destroyed their own games at their core. what are the results? flourishing games but there are also several games that also refuse to budge that just fall (cough anthem) much like warframe is now out of stubbornness. ive seen alot of games like this with "potential" where a small % of player safe guard any criticism with devs blocking their ears that companies fully shut down (the smallest best recent example is maplestory 2). the same is with the players if ppl dont open up to criticism u only help speed the process of lost tolerance that kills it faster. these ppl saying whats wrong with warframe arent game journalist that showed zero passion for anything gaming related, these are actual ppl who put in time and effort towards games that can see fundamental flaws.

[Colyeses]

3 hours ago, SutomuDrgn said:

if a game require the players to "nerf" themselves to gain a better experience, that is simply bad game design

It's not bad game design, it's an inevitable truth. The ones complaining the loudest about the game being too easy are also the ones most likely to hunt down every single cheese method they can get their hands on. No matter what you do, someone will find 'the easiest way' and that'll lead to complaints that the game is too easy.

Slay the Spire has moddable runs that make the game way too easy. Risk of Rain 2 now has the command artifact to make the game too easy. One Step From Eden has cheese strats. Does that make it bad game design? Not at all. You want a challenge, you build a challenge. You have the ability to put yourself through the wringer much better than anyone else can. 

[Unimira]

Would be great if I could start endless missions at a higher level, as it is now random disconnects is a bigger fear long before enemies offer any sort of challenge. Fissures are extra bad since you still need to do them for prime parts.

Some sort of bonuses tied to the level would also be nice (higher chance for reactant drops, more Vitus essence, rotation C more common etc).

Regardless of level only Sentients are difficult to deal with though (status immunity, adaption as well as movement patterns make them a pain). This type of difficulty isn't fun though, just annoying.

[George_PPS]

The game is about super fast paced space super ninjas and mass shooter. If it’s too easy for your top loadouts, why not equip just 4-5 Mods for each Warframe and weapon? The problem is instantly solved. If you want a slow paced game, play something else or start a new thread asking DE to release all negative stats Mods for players like you. 

[Uhkretor]

... People should stop using broken stuff... If that, in your perspective, is to stop playing Warframe then~ so be it...

 

... More bandwidth for me.

[(PSN)DARK_WIZARD999]

What did I tell you, the YES men have arrived to glorify stagnation and defend their lords. 

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

1 hour ago, (PS4)DARK_WIZARD999 said:

What did I tell you, the YES men have arrived to glorify stagnation and defend their lords. 

That is what you call white knights. And it sickens me to of previously been in a community filled to the brim with them who say everything DE does is amazing and they can do no wrong. Borderlands 3 saved me from S#&$frame though so why should I care what tbe idiots say XD

[(NSW)Greybones]

I think I see who you two are referring to, @(XB1)Zweimander and @(PS4)DARK_WIZARD999. And I know that they have varied impressions of this game, ranging from bad to good 🤔 I don’t think anyone here fits the bill of a White Knight.

Hrmm. Come to think of it, knowing that we’re all more complex than we can fit into a post or two, I’d wonder if anyone fits the absolute simplification that the term “White Knight” implies.

If someone seems like they’re only defending, perhaps it’s worth asking people as individuals whether there’s things they’d like to see improved? The expectation that someone would put their entirety into a single post is a little excessive, I think. Assumptions drawn from such limited information are certain to be wrong unless steps are taken to learn more about someone, and even then assumptions in general are mostly a bad way to gauge someone’s values and motivations. Look for the nuance and you will find it 👍