Riven disposition changes based on popularity is wrong

[Highresist]

Basically, instead of making changes to weapons based on performance, DE is doing so based on players usege, which is downright spiteful. "Oh players like using the Fulmin, because it's a good weapon with a unique mechanic? Slam that riven to the ground". It doesn't matter than the Fulmin is weaker in TTK than a lot of crit rifles, including the Bazza and Bazza Prime, Soma Prime, Tenora, Supra Vandal, Acceltra and others.

DE has no clue what balance is or how to maintain it. In a game, where Mesa can press 4 and kill an entire screen of enemies or nuke down a target 10 times faster than any weapon, including sentients, who "requier" different weapon setups in order to bypass their DR adaptation, why even bother with riven dispositions?

[Cype9k]

Gotta keep the Riven Mafia moving, otherwise the riven prices drop and DE loses their stonks.

 

Let's be real, rivens were a mistake to begin with, but the only reason DE doesn't remove them is all the income it makes with people buying thousands of platinum to spend on a single riven.

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

You like the weapon for its mechanic? Well, I have some good news. Making the numbers on that purple card of yours slightly smaller has absolutely no effect on the weapon’s mechanic. 
 

i don’t understand how people who invest in rivens know that dispo is a thing and STILL get upset when their rivens get dispo’d. Christ.

[MPonder]

Disposition changes by popularity: probably the weapons most people invested riven (maybe real money for them). Nerfing them means people will maybe fill forced to buy new rivens for other Weapons (more money for DE).

[Highresist]

3 minutes ago, Cype9k said:

Let's be real, rivens were a mistake to begin with, but the only reason DE doesn't remove them is all the income it makes with people buying thousands of platinum to spend on a single riven.

I 100% agree. The game didn't need them to begin with, but since they are here, DE is like "Let's make the system as frustrating as possible and let's do balance on it, based on something as trivial, like oh I don't know, how many people like X weapon, instead based on performance". Brilliant DE, go to hell!

Edited April 12, 2020 by Highresist

[MPonder]

Remember that DE don't sell power, KKKKKKKKKKKK. Directly.

Edited April 12, 2020 by MPonder

[(PSN)Viveeeh]

Disposition changes depending on popularity because with rivers, they aimed to make unpopular weapons more popular, to encourage variability. That's their sole purpose. They aren't there to make all weapons deal the same amount of damage.

[Highresist]

1 minute ago, MPonder said:

Remember that DE don't sell power, KKKKKKKKKKKK. Directly.

Oh, yeah, people who still think the game isn't P2W are delusional. It's not just rivens, it's prime access or a simple platium pruchases in order to buy the latest content on the market.

[vanaukas]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

You like the weapon for its mechanic? Well, I have some good news. Making the numbers on that purple card of yours slightly smaller has absolutely no effect on the weapon’s mechanic. 
 

i don’t understand how people who invest in rivens know that dispo is a thing and STILL get upset when their rivens get dispo’d. Christ.

✨🎉🎊

7 minutes ago, Highresist said:

Oh, yeah, people who still think the game isn't P2W are delusional. It's not just rivens, it's prime access or a simple platium pruchases in order to buy the latest content on the market.

Win what? Doing something a little better than before because now it's prime? We don't even compete against each other, pvp is dood and without paying you can do exactly the same that the guy who is spending thousands on plat or prime access, so, you can explain why warframe is pay to win? Because cosmetics that doesn't have an impact on the gameplay aren't a p2w move at all.

Edited April 12, 2020 by xHeretic

[Cype9k]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Viveeeh said:

Disposition changes depending on popularity because with rivers, they aimed to make unpopular weapons more popular, to encourage variability. That's their sole purpose. They aren't there to make all weapons deal the same amount of damage.

 

Panthera's riven disposition getting nerfed 3 times in a row even tho nobody uses it begs to differ, bucko.

[MPonder]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Viveeeh said:

Disposition changes depending on popularity because with rivers, they aimed to make unpopular weapons more popular, to encourage variability. That's their sole purpose. They aren't there to make all weapons deal the same amount of damage.

Yep, with -damage, -fire rate, -critical damage. All these negative stats make your weapon more popular.

[MPonder]

If Rivens were trully made to make unpopular weapons more popular, they would have fixed stats for EVERY weapon to fix their inconsistences. Rifle Snipers would all have 110% multishot, regardless and enough Critical chance to make it critical chance go to 100%, and maybe some reload or fire rate in there, with no negative. Same goes for other type of weapons.

 

They are just a cassino to make some money.

Edited April 12, 2020 by MPonder

[Highresist]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

You like the weapon for its mechanic? Well, I have some good news. Making the numbers on that purple card of yours slightly smaller has absolutely no effect on the weapon’s mechanic. 

Fulmin 1/5 is weaker than Bazza Prime 3/5. From a power standpoint, there is no reason to use the Fulmin over the Bazza prime (considering you have rivens for both) and it all comes to popularity instead of performance, which as I said, is dowright spiteful. DE want balance, well they need to hire some people who actually have a consept of that, instead of tinkering with mechanics they don't understant.

[(PSN)Viveeeh]

1 minute ago, MPonder said:

Yep, with -damage, -fire rate, -critical damage. All these negative stats make your weapon more popular.

Sorry, you're right! All rivens should be +Dmg + CC + CD unrolled. 

[MPonder]

Just now, (PS4)Viveeeh said:

Sorry, you're right! All rivens should be +Dmg + CC + CD unrolled. 

Some are better with status btw.

[0_The_F00l]

The disposition is based on both popularity and some sort of DEs internal power scale.

 

 

Which is to say it is completely arbitrary and a sham , if there is already a power scale then they know some of their weapons are weak and some are strong.

They have shown they are not sure how to balance weapon stats properly  and so have left it again to the community.

The stat changes only happen when a weapon remains popular despite the rivens getting the lowest disposition for multiple iteration.

 

 

Not the best solution in my opinion , and i think they need to not just revise stats but also revise the weapon stats with time.

 

They are working as intended for DE.

Edited April 12, 2020 by 0_The_F00l

[(PSN)Viveeeh]

3 minutes ago, MPonder said:

Some are better with status btw.

I wholeheartedly disagree with you, but this made me LOL 😂

Edited April 12, 2020 by (PS4)Viveeeh

[taiiat]

sure. every time stuff gets adjusted, Weapons that were neither popular and/or not actually particularly good, get nerfed inexplicably.
happens everytime with a few Weapons.

[Highresist]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)Viveeeh said:

Disposition changes depending on popularity because with rivers, they aimed to make unpopular weapons more popular, to encourage variability. That's their sole purpose. They aren't there to make all weapons deal the same amount of damage.

Pretty useless purpose, considering that Gram prime is the strongest mele weapon, since its introduction, in terms of power and up until resently it had 5/5 riven dispo as well. If that is the case, which it's pretty obvious it isn't, the Riven system is a complete and utter failiure. If DE come stright up and say that the Riven system is soly created to cash in on selling power, I don't think many people would be surprised.

[Highresist]

49 minutes ago, xHeretic said:

Win what? Doing something a little better than before because now it's prime?

That's the deffinition of P2W. Doing something better or faster than the others, who don't pay. If you argue that isn't the case, than every single mobile or f2p game isn't P2W either, because on paper, you can have the same progress without paying, eventually. Warframe is no exception and is a P2W in its core. It just isn't as outrageous as other titles.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Highresist

[Bregastor]

13 minutes ago, Highresist said:

That's the definition of P2W. Doing something better or faster than the others, who don't pay.

Except in this game investing real money does not make you more powerful than someone only trading in game. 

Also again what do you win exactly? You pay to skip in this game, you don't win anything if you pay. 

Look at Scarlet Spear event, would you consider P2W someone buying a redeemer riven? Because my Red oneshot condrix even without a riven in late waves, buying a riven for that would be overkill not p2w. 

[JohnKable]

We can debate forever that people should be aware of how rivens work and that noone should sink immense amounts of platinums or kuva (time) on mods that are very likely bound to be "nerfed".
But we can all agree that is a really frustrating system. Prevents many people from even touching rivens, and punishes the ones that go too far into investing in them.
And i agree, popularity based nerfs are the worst, because you sistematically nerf the toys MOST people like. Perpetrating an endless circle of frustration.
ALSO, i said this many times but will say it again, this way doesnt work! People that like a weapon will continue to use it, it will continue to show in the stats and it will continue to have riven dispo taken down. Until it reaches the magical 0.5 disposition that is simply worthless, and just worse than a regular mod.

Also the different stats for regular and prime variants are dumb as heck. If you really like a weapon, you should hunt for the prime. And rivens should be balanced on the prime no matter what. If im trading for a riven i cant even see how it actually will look like on the prime, and thats super dumb, and also confusing and frustrating for those that dont know about it.

You guys can advocate all day that rivens are made JUST for making trash weapons more viable, but we all know thats not the case.  Rivens are designed to make weapon more powerful, even if marginally so for top weapons and greatly iproving trash weapons.

The idea  behind rivens is pretty cool, and you can see how popular the system is. But the way it is handled is flawed at its core, and i would be fine with it only if there was a much smaller range between the top high and low rivens. Honestly i would only keep 2/5, 3/5 and 4/5 dispo without all the minuscle middle grounds and would tweak them weapon-by-weapon, so that positives will always be worthwhile and negative will alway be meaningful.

P.S: i will add one thing, yes rivens are not mandatory. Are not even necessary and barely meaningful on already top-tier weapons.
But the very purpose of the game is to collect and upgrade everything that makes your setup more powerful, and to squeeze till the last drop op power out of it. Catalyst are not mandatory, neither are formas. You still want to use those. A riven is supposed to be the cherry on top of everything and so many people want that

Edited April 12, 2020 by JohnKable

[Ghogiel]

Yeas it is (was) stupid. They no longer base riven disposition on popularity, if they ever did at that in any logical way, so there is no point discussing the topic as if that's how any of this works. There are enough examples of hardly ever used weapons with very low dispo, it's clear DE doesn't use popularity (alone) to determine disposition. (are people running around with rakta dark daggers or even regular dark daggers all the time? no they aren't)

They in fact have an "internal power ranking" system that is used to determine disposition. We have little idea how that system works, except it's definitely more than just a popularity contest.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Ghogiel

[JohnKable]

6 minutes ago, Ghogiel said:

Yeas it is (was) stupid. They no longer base riven disposition on popularity, if they ever did at that in any logical way, so there is no point discussing the topic as if that's how any of this works. There are enough examples of hardly ever used weapons with very low dispo, it's clear DE doesn't use popularity (alone) to determine disposition. (are people running around with rakta dark daggers or even regular dark daggers all the time? no they aren't)

They in fact have an "internal power ranking" system that is used to determine disposition. We have little idea how that system works, except it's definitely more than just a popularity popularity contest.

its pretty clear its MOSTLY a popularity contest. The fact that a few weapons you dont expect to see touched make the list doesnt mean that those are not popular.
They change dozens of rivens per category of weapons, I coul easily say what are the most 5 used primaries, but i couldnt really tell whats ranked 22th, can you? they can and likely act accordingly. all you see is a weapon that you didnt think is one of the most popular being touched.

The example of rakta dark dagger is not a good one, because some youtubers popularized a bit in a very specific time frame (shield gating update) and it actually saw quite a rise in popularity. For a good week ive played with dozens of people with that equipped.

Sure they also have some kind of internal power ranking (its pretty easy math to determine what weapons are just better on paper) and sure that does have an impact. but 90% is still popularity based

[Yamazuki]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Viveeeh said:

Disposition changes depending on popularity because with rivers, they aimed to make unpopular weapons more popular, to encourage variability. That's their sole purpose. They aren't there to make all weapons deal the same amount of damage.

Weapons that see no use typically have too low stats, and rivens have no change on that, as weapons with all around low stats aren't usable. Some weapons are even deliberately meant to be weaker and abandoned after a point, such as MK weapons, or weapons you get early like Heat Sword. Any other weapon that isn't intentionally kept weak could have easily had their stats adjusted to not be worthless, because rivens can't make them useful.

It's also obvious by now rivens, or weapons, aren't adjusted solely on global usage anyways. If a weapon is used entirely by a small group (high MR) it gets a lower dispo or a direct nerf. It's not as if DE is even consistent with dispo or weapon adjustments. Why does Gram Prime need better dispo than Paracesis; Paracesis isn't even the best weapon, or even best melee, to kill Sentients, and that's really the only reason to even use the weapon.