Riven disposition changes based on popularity is wrong

[Aldain]

3 hours ago, Highresist said:

-snip-

I mean that's what I ascribe to personally.

So much of Warframe's problems stem from REALLY bad numbers and scaling, remember the MK1-2 costs for Railjack repairs? The ones that are still obnoxiously overpriced to the point of not being worth crafting because MK3s are similar in cost and many times better?

There was also armor scaling which up until recently was literally "Grineer are the only damage metric that matters" which was years of messed up numbers.

Nevermind what Bows looked like for a long time before that mass of bow buffs happened.

It really is an old fashioned Hanlon's Razor when it comes to DE's numbers.

[kwlingo]

On 2020-04-12 at 2:46 AM, Highresist said:

Basically, instead of making changes to weapons based on performance, DE is doing so based on players usege, which is downright spiteful. "Oh players like using the Fulmin, because it's a good weapon with a unique mechanic? Slam that riven to the ground". It doesn't matter than the Fulmin is weaker in TTK than a lot of crit rifles, including the Bazza and Bazza Prime, Soma Prime, Tenora, Supra Vandal, Acceltra and others.

DE has no clue what balance is or how to maintain it. In a game, where Mesa can press 4 and kill an entire screen of enemies or nuke down a target 10 times faster than any weapon, including sentients, who "requier" different weapon setups in order to bypass their DR adaptation, why even bother with riven dispositions?

lol you must have spent lots of Plat for the Fulmin GOD riven. ahahha

[Highresist]

1 minute ago, Aldain said:

So much of Warframe's problems stem from REALLY bad numbers and scaling, remember the MK1-2 costs for Railjack repairs? The ones that are still obnoxiously overpriced to the point of not being worth crafting because MK3s are similar in cost and many times better?

Yup, I just didn't play for a month, waited on other people to build their railjacks then joined vail missions through the public que in order to go stright to MK3 gear and then build my ship.

Damage scaling is a mess, but still, it is so obvious that Fulmin is weaker than Baza prime, yet the riven dispositions for these weapon is upside down. I think the topic we are circling around is damage types and, basically all physical ones are trash with the exception of slash, thus making such a big difference between slash base weapons and everything else, but then we have Hunter munition, which makes crit and slash weapons even better and makes the entire number balance a nightmare. Still in that case, make rivens a tool to balance weapon stats instead of power sticks, locked behind one of the worst game systems in existance. 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

4 hours ago, Aldain said:

-shrug- Maybe I'm just old fashioned in that regard, I never saw a point in dealing 300,000 damage to something that only needs around 5,000 to kill in any game.

But that still doesn't change the fact that the only reason that Rivens are expensive in the first place are because people buy them at those obtuse prices, if people didn't buy rivens for 500-1000+ plat then the prices would be significantly lower.

Supply and demand. 

3 hours ago, Highresist said:

Well, that's market driven economy. When there is a short supply and a high demand the prices go through the roof. The reason why there is a short supply, though is strictly on DE's shoulders and not the players. When you introduce power in any game, it is natural for your players to want to have it. From there on DE are using that carrot for the basis of a "gotcha" system where they focus weapon's popularity instead of performance and make changes in order to dirve up more player spendings.
This may not be the case, but the other reason would be DE are just stupid and have no clue about their own damage scaling. 
Take a pick, which one is worse, because I don't see a third option for this debauchery.

And then after everybody has had a chance to invest in whatever the flavor of the month is? Enjoy your nerfs. No refunds. 

[AzureTerra]

2 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

And then after everybody has had a chance to invest in whatever the flavor of the month is? Enjoy your nerfs. No refunds. 

Yep, and you went willing to the trade window for whatever the current flavour is knowing full well that it may change.

[ReaverKane]

7 hours ago, Highresist said:

The Fulmin is in fact worse than the Baza prime, yet it has 1/5 disposition compared to 3/5. Player usage is certainly not the best metric for performance.

🤨 every single prime weapon or warframe, without exceptions is more powerful than a none prime one. You absolutely buy power.

1) The performance difference is your opinion. Not everyone would agree with you.

2) This was the first time variants had their own modifier, so it's still not settled.

3) Baza Prime is relatively recent compared to Fulmin, so it didn't have time to change enough. You have to remember they avoid doing radical shifts.

4) Sure, prime weapons are better than their non prime counterparts. But not better than every other non-prime weapon, saying that just means you don't really know what you're talking about.

5) You don't need to buy prime weapons. You buy time, not power.

6 hours ago, Highresist said:

Oh, you are one of those players, who think refining builds is worthless, gotcha.

You're confusing min-maxing with not having a sense of value. I min-max all my builds, and yet i rarely trade rivens. I cycle the ones i get, but i still use a lot of unrivened weapons, because the value people place in those rivens far exceeds their gains. Especially since every riven that hits those values will definetly devalue sooner or later because that also means a lot of people are using that weapon, which in turn means the next prime release will reduce the power of that riven.

[Dabluechimp]

On 2020-04-13 at 7:59 AM, Highresist said:

your Vectis prime doesn't have the same power as someone's with CC/CD/MS/-magazine capacity riven has

no it doesn't, and yet I still manage to do to more damage than those who do have rivens like that with my 5 fourma riven-less Rubico Prime

Fam, you have a horribly bad missunderstanding of what P2W means
if warframe was P2W, you'd beable to buy umbra fourma, the ammount of money they'd rake in with umbra fourma alone would be mental

[Felsagger]

On 2020-04-12 at 3:46 AM, Highresist said:

Basically, instead of making changes to weapons based on performance, DE is doing so based on players usage, which is downright spiteful. "Oh players like using the Fulmin, because it's a good weapon with a unique mechanic? Slam that riven to the ground". It doesn't matter than the Fulmin is weaker in TTK than a lot of crit rifles, including the Bazza and Bazza Prime, Soma Prime, Tenora, Supra Vandal, Acceltra and others.

DE has no clue what balance is or how to maintain it. In a game, where Mesa can press 4 and kill an entire screen of enemies or nuke down a target 10 times faster than any weapon, including sentients, who "requier" different weapon setups in order to bypass their DR adaptation, why even bother with riven dispositions?

 

PRECISE. 

EXACT. 

CONCISE. 

DE IS NOT PLAYING THEIR OWN GAME. This is what happens when a developer doesn't study their own game. On one side you create a bait system with programmed obsolescence in the other hand you cater constantly the casuals rejecting the input of people who has been in the game for seven years. 

DE must accept the fact that META when discovered is awesome. It provides fun and reason to some certain tasks. Meta doesn't trivialize the content. On the contrary it REWARDS EFFORT and DEDICATION on that task. But is it wrong to have ONE PERFECT SOLUTION? NO, because such solution took a lot of trial an error from the community. It's a cooperative effort. 

Warframe should not look for BALANCING because the game was not BUILD for competitive. This game is build as a cooperative game where one individual will have more time doing things alone than doing things in team. It's a social game. However throwing nerfs, gimps and downgrades all the time is not counterproductive to the game. Yes, this is a business and nothing is for free but I want to invest in a game that values my acquisition of the new item and values my time. 

 

 

 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

1 hour ago, AzureTerra said:

Yep, and you went willing to the trade window for whatever the current flavour is knowing full well that it may change.

Was my post about me? No. It wasn't. It was about the community in general. 

It's a glorified bait and switch tactic justified by fine print. Go be a white knight troll somewhere else kid.

[Highresist]

16 hours ago, ReaverKane said:

1) The performance difference is your opinion. Not everyone would agree with you.

What and I do mean WHAT? TTK is not an opinion 🤣. What the hell are you guys? It's like we are not even playing the same game. 

 

16 hours ago, ReaverKane said:

saying that just means you don't really know what you're talking about.

Speaking of someone who doesn't know what he is talking about: 

 

16 hours ago, ReaverKane said:

You have to remember they avoid doing radical shifts.

In the first 5 minutes of SS Trinity and Limbo were radically shifted. The first riven patch after Rubico prime was released, its riven was radically shifted. Condition Overload change? Maiming strike? Itzal, which was nothing more than means of transportation. It had no gameplay value, outside of the super hardcore Eidolon hunters, which are like what, 50 people? #Notradicalshifts. Zephyr and Tonkor, which btw in today's meta would be nothing more than a gimick, rather than something "game breaking". Hell, they are even talking about putting restrictions to the simulacrum, because they don't like that players use it to test weapons, instead of doing the normal content! There are a lot more, DE constantly makes radical shifts, most of the time for the wrong reasons.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Highresist

[Highresist]

16 hours ago, Dabluechimp said:

no it doesn't, and yet I still manage to do to more damage than those who do have rivens like that with my 5 fourma riven-less Rubico Prime

No you don't. 🤣 Primed Chamber is a multiplier. Vectis Prime with CC/CD/MS/-mag cap riven and a primed chamber is the highest dps weapon in the game.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Highresist

[AzureTerra]

15 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Was my post about me? No. It wasn't. It was about the community in general. 

It's a glorified bait and switch tactic justified by fine print. Go be a white knight troll somewhere else kid.

Apparently it was about you since you are taking such umbrage about it. Not going anywhere bucko since I am as able to post here as you are junior.

 

39 minutes ago, Highresist said:

No you don't. 🤣 Primed Chamber is a multiplier. Vectis Prime with CC/CD/MS/-mag cap riven and a primed chamber is the highest dps weapon in the game.

Ah yes the "highest dps" in a game where all that really means is someone's ego is being inflated. 

 

[tzadquiel]

same song every dispo change month. 

 

you guys make me smile

[(XBOX)E Da Richard]

On 2020-04-12 at 3:13 AM, (PS4)Viveeeh said:

I wholeheartedly disagree with you, but this made me LOL 😂

Yeah because weapons like the Pox, Cyanex, Torid, Tigris and many others definitely needs +CC and +CD on their rivens...

Edited April 15, 2020 by (XB1)YouBitePi11ows

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

3 hours ago, AzureTerra said:

Apparently it was about you since you are taking such umbrage about it. Not going anywhere bucko since I am as able to post here as you are junior.

 

 

 

Ah yes. Because it's impossible for me to simply have an issue with bait and switch tactics. 

White knight detected. 

[Aseraan]

On 2020-04-12 at 9:51 AM, Cype9k said:

Gotta keep the Riven Mafia moving, otherwise the riven prices drop and DE loses their stonks.

 

Let's be real, rivens were a mistake to begin with, but the only reason DE doesn't remove them is all the income it makes with people buying thousands of platinum to spend on a single riven.

So much of this mucho.

[Aseraan]

On 2020-04-12 at 9:55 AM, Highresist said:

I 100% agree. The game didn't need them to begin with, but since they are here, DE is like "Let's make the system as frustrating as possible and let's do balance on it, based on something as trivial, like oh I don't know, how many people like X weapon, instead based on performance". Brilliant DE, go to hell!

And thats how the jawsword got nerfed...XD

Edited April 15, 2020 by Aseraan

[IceColdHawk]

23 hours ago, AzureTerra said:

Yep, and you went willing to the trade window for whatever the current flavour is knowing full well that it may change.

It's about the principle. The fact that whatever you buy or spend hard farmed kuva into gets made worthless later and they keep releasing obvious powerhouses with a 1.00 dispo cuz "fresh and dont have data hehe" for extra baiting, when it's blatantly obvious that some weapons have power behind them. They even give them a higher MR restriction! It's not about "You know it's getting changed so why you buy it?". Besides, not everyone does know. Us forum nerds do, yes. But not everyone. A new player can get up to 3 months until they suddenly see their rivens get bonked.

That's why we're addressing this issue and voicing our concern. Not because we're upset that we have bought a riven and it got nerfed without us knowing. We do know. But we're no longer going to just accept it and say thanks. Things need to change. People are already on fire because of recent warframe things and this disposition nonsense is just adding onto it for no good reason at all.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2020-04-14 at 2:41 AM, Highresist said:

Well, that's market driven economy. When there is a short supply and a high demand the prices go through the roof. The reason why there is a short supply, though is strictly on DE's shoulders and not the players. When you introduce power in any game, it is natural for your players to want to have it. From there on DE are using that carrot for the basis of a "gotcha" system where they focus weapon's popularity instead of performance and make changes in order to dirve up more player spendings. This may not be the case though.

Whether they're actively trying to or not its exactly what they're doing. 

 

They keep releasing new weapons that they do know or should know are going to be really powerful and popular with a dispo of 3 and then guess what. It gets nerfed repeatedly. Catchmoon. Fulmin. And now bramma. 

 

But with the dispo update schedule everyone has plenty of time to sink time/money into the flavor of the month before it gets nerfed. And that's the part I think is icky. How many people would have paid out the ass (money or plat or time) for any given riven if it was a low dispo to begin with?

[MPonder]

Say whatever you wanna say, make the bests logics, try to use what DE said about the system to justify.

 

Look the system for what it is, how it works and the environment around it and you see it is a cash grab that was disguised with good words.

Edited April 15, 2020 by MPonder

[Zimzala]

2 minutes ago, MPonder said:

Say whatever you wanna say, make the bests logics, try to use what DE said about the system to justify.

 

Look the system for what it is, how it works and the environment around it and you see it is a cash grab that was disguised with good words.

I think your tinfoil hat might be on too tight...

[Sahansral]

Am 14.4.2020 um 10:33 schrieb Aldain:

-shrug- Maybe I'm just old fashioned in that regard, I never saw a point in dealing 300,000 damage to something that only needs around 5,000 to kill in any game.

There are several possible points:

* elevating aoe weapons to the level of single target non-riven weapons

* eliminating the need to customize your weapons for each faction by brute forcing with a one size fits all riven meta loadout

* enabling players to squeeze out just another eidolon kill in a night

* pure lazyness. Why click three times per enemy when I can oneshot him even at level 80/90/whatever?

[Dabluechimp]

On 2020-04-15 at 3:34 AM, Highresist said:

No you don't. 🤣 Primed Chamber is a multiplier. Vectis Prime with CC/CD/MS/-mag cap riven and a primed chamber is the highest dps weapon in the game.

Just cause you have the highest DPS in the game don't mean you have the cappability to use it... 😆

and Besides if warframe is P2W, how is it harmfull to people who don't pay, cause you win and lose as a group.

[le_souriceau]

Yep, this whole tactic of releasing obviously overpowered wepons, allow people to invest in rivens, then nerf them to obvilion (then repeat circle) -- quite dirty. 

Thats why I corrected my approch to them.

1) don't care about them too much.

2) buy rarely and only when weapon rivens more or less "stabilzed" in terms of hype and nefring.

Edited April 18, 2020 by le_souriceau