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My Thoughts On The Orokin Vault, And What Is Actually Fun In This Game


Tigercloud
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So, I downloaded the patch last night, and was lucky enough to get into a good group so I could do the derelict vaults about 4 or 5 times in a row. Here's the good and the bad:

 

1. This patch has made Recruiting chat into LFV, Have all keys! gear check.

I only made two keys, bleeding and decaying, since I don't have many void keys, and I'm leveling my weapons so Extinguished isn't a good idea, and I'm Frost Prime, so Hobbling is tortuous. That's fine, that's my problem. BUT, what I saw in Recruiting chat is some people were like me, saying "I have Bleeding" or "I have Decaying", while other people were saying "I have all keys".

 

I quickly realized this was the new norm. You'd HAVE to have all keys to make things less painful to organize, so the LFV, All keys are automatically higher on the invite priority than someone who has only one or two keys. So, you're more or less, due to social engineering, required to have all keys just to be in the running for invites. Basically, this is a pain in the &#!. It is awkward. That's all I'll say about it. You shouldn't have awkward systems, it's like clogging up your engine.

 

2. It's frustrating putting a group together.

Despite only having two key types, I got invited! Yay! But since I'd been in a failed Vault just before, I was able to observe that for vaults, the host has to make sure everything's set up right.

 

Basically, the host needs to be organized enough to do a few simple things: make sure everyone has the right keys, make sure everyone has their keys equipped, and then do a double-check ("Call out your keys!") to make sure everyone's got the right keys. No, this isn't hard, but it's a pain, and it relies on the host being competent. Luckily, our host was great. Good on you, Aparthesis!

 

3. The Auto-Start bug makes #2 even more frustrating.

So, this is an easy fix for DE, but it still made the whole night more irritating. There's an auto-start bug which can happen, and when this happens with the host, he has 3 seconds to cancel or you go into the vault; in our case, with people who hadn't yet equipped their key. Pain in the &#!, again. Our heroic host was good enough that he told the person to leave, equip their key, and he'd just invite back. Still, Pain. In. The. &#!.

 

4. Exterminate mission bug makes this even more a mad-house.

This bug is where enemies don't spawn/only spawn in two out of the way rooms. Short and simple, we had to restart the mission.

 

5. This is a lot of grief for limited content.

The host said this, and I agree; We'll run this thing for like 5 hours, get all the mods, then never come here again. It wouldn't matter if it was a graceful method of entry, but it isn't. It's awkward as all hell. And the only point is to get teh lootz. In about an hour and a half of playing, I got 5 of the new mods. Only a few of them will be useful to me anyway. It wasn't even more challenging with the debuffs, it was still farm your way through the mobs. I can see that some people actually like the hobbled key, and I guess that's cool, but it cripples your teammate and introduces a ton of complications, such as either having to have a fast frame in the group to carry it, or dealing with a glacier slow Rhino/Frost. My buzz word for all my complaints is: Awkward.

 

THE GOOD

6. During one of the Exterminate bug missions, we decided to tough it out and look EVERYWHERE for the bad dudes. In the course of doing this, I really got a chance to explore the Derelict tileset, including finding an out of the way room where it looks like the Derelict's engine is; really beautiful. It might be bugged, since the doors into the area are red, but they open up anyway. What I realized from this was it is really fun to roam around the world DE has made, and having the opportunity to just appreciate their artwork and atmosphere.

 

7. After I was done with OV for the night, I did one Pluto mission solo. I'd accidentally kept my Decaying key equipped, and while I think that's also Awkward, it did make the mission a lot more challenging. Hey, there is a use for these keys after all! It's like a power limiter to make for a more interesting mission, forcing you to push your game farther.

 

My TL:DR Feedback

There were a lot of hiccups in the Orokin Vault, but even the basic gameplay elements are somewhat frustrating. I think when a game feels like there's a lot of hurdles just to get started, with one mission, that's poor design. And ultimately, the content is a one-shot; it's reward based, and once you've got all the rewards, you don't have any reason to go back. I like this game a lot, despite its flaws, but, from the many bugs that came with the patch's release last night, to the very implementation of the content, I felt this was sloppily done, and that DE can do better. That's the first time I've felt this way with all the content they've released.

 

What I found out from all this.

I had kind of a realization from this flawed experience. Most games, and particularly how DE has been running recent content, try to keep their players interested via a Pavlovian system. It's conditioning. We give you this nice loot that makes you more powerful, you play to get it. You get bored, we make some more even nicer loot that makes you even more powerful, you play to get it. For me, this is only "fun" in the way an addict looks forward to his next fix. But I don't truly enjoy it.

 

What I do enjoy is when I'm freed from the restraints of the treadmill; the, "I have to beat this mission so I can get the cool mod so I can get more powerful so I can go beat the next mission which will have a cool mod." In that system, all there is is work and reward. I do the work, I get the reward. Except it's just that; work. It's not play.

 

When that Exterminate mission bug made us go looking around the whole ship, the treadmill broke, and I thought, "Wow, this world is so cool. I wish this game didn't make me feel like I have to go places, I wish it was built in such a way that I, on my own accord, want to explore, and am happy in doing so."

 

When I accidentally kept that Dragon key equipped, I thought, "Whoa, I just made this mission harder, and there's no reward in me doing it except the challenge I now face. I wish that I could play this game just to seek out the challenge, rather than feeling like I need this new better mod, so I need to do harder stuff."

 

What I think would be awesome in Warframe.

1. Sandbox missions. These would take any tileset, and just have tons of things to do in the mission, Skyrim style. You might have multiple quests, like capture objectives, exterminate objectives, rescue objectives. You could also have story-progressing goodies. What I think would be great is if there were hackable consoles hidden around the map, and they can trigger little quest strings, or just give you some lore. No loot. No "reward". Just a big scenario/living environment I can play around in and marvel at.

 

2. Challenge modes for the challenge alone. I can already see me equipping a dragon key and trying to do some of the higher level content solo, just to see if I can do it. (I'm not a great player, but I look forward to challenging myself.) I'm not sure this is an intended purpose for DE's dragon keys, but it works regardless. What I really want is truly challenging maps, but without feeling like I'm only doing them for the loot. Because then, AUTOMATICALLY, you start feeling like you want to be done as fast as possible, because what you're really after is the loot, the upgrade. You're not there for the challenge itself.

 

So, I want a mode that has challenges, interesting ones, not just bullet sponges. And I want it without a carrot to make me do it.

 

You've read through all that? Wow, you have a lot of time. Well here's the kicker then.

Here's my thought for a new type of endgame. It reverses the whole game design on its head. Maybe it won't work, but here it goes.

 

The endgame has no loot, no upgrades, no rewards at all. It's simply engaging content.

 

How does the game work? You go through the whole treadmill to get to your PERFECT STATE. The treadmill is the early game/mid-game. It's where you get all your loot, your upgrades, to get your Warframe to your ideal set up.

 

Then, after all that's done, you've got your infinite endgame. Not a single part of it will make your Warframe stronger. There is not a single item you will get from it. Instead, you are able to use your Warframe to explore the content. And that content is story, challenges, interesting, in-depth missions, a sandbox in which you play, and defend yourself with your skill, abilities, and maxed out frame.

 

Thanks for reading.

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Congratulations for stepping off the treadmill. Welcome to the real world, Neo. 

 

Me and my bro always went around the whole map when playing Void missions, and Derelict Void isn't an exception. We're not the 'efficient' players, completing missions solely for the reward, we play because it's fun. And going to a Void mission without exploring every corner of the level seems kinda wasteful. :/

 

The game is only as pavlovian as the players make it be. I personally play because I want to play, not because I need to get X mod to increase my DPS by Y%. It's just "hey, wanna do a Survival/Derelict/Void run?" "I wanna make Nyx. Lets clear to Naeglar!", and then we load up the game, and play. Often times we just go to Appolodorus to level weapons and just generally have fun smashing Grineer, or go to Fossa and kill Crewmen for XP until we get tired of it, treating Jackal like a nice cherry on top of the cake.

 

Just generally have fun. :)

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Super disappointed that the OP finished with useless hyperbole.  It's like me saying, "Hey DE!  Make a game that is infinite fun and nobody will complain!" :( The rest of the post was tolerable, I don't agree with everything but that's me and you're you. 

 

I feel like, if the entire game in its current state was released today with certain things like these keys not explained (have them be drops too) this would be an entirely different experience.  Somebody would discover it during normal gameplay, tell others and they'd go through it and discover the content word would spread blah blah ditto for the normal void.  I feel like this is the downside of beta and piecemeal updates - each piece of content is left to stand on its own and is expected to be an amazing game/experince in of itself AND its all just laid out for us so there is nothing to discover/stumble upon.  This method of open beta removes the ability to take the game as the sum of its parts and instead promotes critical analysis of each component.  I feel like a lot of games which are considered great would be looked at quite differently if examined in this fashion, heck a lot of older RPG's stand out. 

 

Anywho that's my 0.02

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Dude... that are some awesome thoughts you have there.

 

Lately the game really feels more like work and less like fun while running missions based on simple "powercreep" rewards I maybe not even get because of "RNG" unreliability and the only reason you kept playing is that you think you would have fun doing the same thing over and over again but your simply addicted to the system... it's scary and I just realized that a lot of games go this way to keep their audience "happy". Like a lot of MMOs with gear treadmills and so on.

 

The moments where I play solo and just enjoy the beautyful crafted levels with their specific sounds are the ones that I really enjoy. Maybe thats why I would prefer a Guild Wars 2 over any other MMO on the market at every day. What was that called? Horizontal progression. You get "rewards" that are not really rewards. Not making you stronger or anything. Just nice things the game wants you to thank for playing and having fun while doing so.

 

Because I want to play... and not the game wants me to play it.

 

BUT... I don't think that such an approach on game design would pay off. Maybe I get a bit nasty here, but how many people would smoke cigaretts if they wouldn't be addicted to them? Following your theory of a Pavlovian gamedesign and my own experiences (24 years of gaming) I would say that the most sucessful games are the ones that either make you have fun with your friends (or nice random people) for a loong time because of real teamwork and replay value or the ones that just addict you, condition you, before you notice it and you keep running the never ending treadmill because you think its fun and you absolutly need the new grindy, time-consuming content.

 

I would boldly say that most of the people with 100+ hours in Warframe have either a damn good clan/ friends or they just need the run their daily RNG challenge because the games says so and maybe they really think its fun to kill Captain Vor a 50 times (in a worse case) a get all the Seer pistol parts.

 

I wish this game would have more things to offer that really matters. Story, interesting mechanics or things where players can interact with the world. Dojo wasn't a bad idea and the unfinished story section too. Why isn't DE focusing development more in this direction instead of making more carrots for the addicted and the powercreep with even moar new and powerful shiny toys that devalue your recent equipment because the new stuff is just better(Soma, Galatine).

 

Well maybe they just don't want to end like ArenaNet, because too many people would complain that there is nothing to do and all this so-called engame is just boring running around without "real" rewards and so they stop playing and the money stops flowing... because most rabbits just want their carrots.

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Super disappointed that the OP finished with useless hyperbole.  It's like me saying, "Hey DE!  Make a game that is infinite fun and nobody will complain!" :( The rest of the post was tolerable, I don't agree with everything but that's me and you're you. 

 

<snip>

 

Well, I'm sorry that I didn't explain myself well enough to avoid sounding like I was just spouting hyperbole. If you want a concrete example (and honestly, the Cells thread is pretty much what I'm asking for, but without rewards), it would be a map set on one of the existing tilesets, which had these types of content:

 

1. Hackable terminals which could either start off objectives, or open up new areas. For instance, you aren't given the Rescue objective off the bat; you wander around the map exploring, then you find a heavily guarded area; you kill off the guards, find a terminal, hack it, and find the hostage. Or, you find a terminal in one of the far corners of the map, hack it, and a door unlocks which takes you into a research lab with a boss type in it.

2. Objective questlines that had a storyline. At present, while you may have multiple objectives within one map, it's not a continuous plot; it's just different things to accomplish before extracting. In this case, you might be tasked with stealing a datacase without being spotted (thus requiring stealth gameplay until that point), then you find that the datacase tells about a new weapon prototype under guard in a protected area, which you must go to retrieve. After you take it, the Corpus forces decide to initiate a self-destruct sequence for the facility, and you need to get out before it explodes. Simple plot-line, but progression from one thing to another.

 

Basically, either sandbox open-type explores, or questline missions, or a combination of both. I think the sandbox explore is more the ideal I have in mind. I don't think that's impossible to achieve, it can take pre-existing assets and be accomplished.

 

Also, I agree with the rest of your post. It's hard to have perspective when you're stuck in the developing stage of the game, and see the nuts and bolts being made. However, at present, if I started this game from the beginning right now, there would still be a treadmill. That's why I was asking for and trying to offer an alternative.

 

To finish, I think you're a bit off target, because I in fact prefaced my rainbow unicorn dream with examples of what would be an "infinite" endgame. That would be randomly-generated higher complexity maps, and challenge-mode maps, with the stipulation that in both cases, no power-boosting rewards would be offered, in order to avoid the work-reward treadmill design. There's probably a number of people who would rather a treadmill design system, and we can have a discussion about that if you wish. I'd say that should be handled by having the treadmill be the mid-game (which would be all the content currently released so far), which if you want you can continue to play forever. I simply want this manner of "endgame" be the cap, or playground, for those who want to progress beyond the treadmill and still have something to do.

 

Dude... that are some awesome thoughts you have there.

 

Lately the game really feels more like work and less like fun while running missions based on simple "powercreep" rewards I maybe not even get because of "RNG" unreliability and the only reason you kept playing is that you think you would have fun doing the same thing over and over again but your simply addicted to the system... it's scary and I just realized that a lot of games go this way to keep their audience "happy". Like a lot of MMOs with gear treadmills and so on.

 

The moments where I play solo and just enjoy the beautyful crafted levels with their specific sounds are the ones that I really enjoy. Maybe thats why I would prefer a Guild Wars 2 over any other MMO on the market at every day. What was that called? Horizontal progression. You get "rewards" that are not really rewards. Not making you stronger or anything. Just nice things the game wants you to thank for playing and having fun while doing so.

 

Because I want to play... and not the game wants me to play it.

 

BUT... I don't think that such an approach on game design would pay off. Maybe I get a bit nasty here, but how many people would smoke cigaretts if they wouldn't be addicted to them? Following your theory of a Pavlovian gamedesign and my own experiences (24 years of gaming) I would say that the most sucessful games are the ones that either make you have fun with your friends (or nice random people) for a loong time because of real teamwork and replay value or the ones that just addict you, condition you, before you notice it and you keep running the never ending treadmill because you think its fun and you absolutly need the new grindy, time-consuming content.

 

I would boldly say that most of the people with 100+ hours in Warframe have either a damn good clan/ friends or they just need the run their daily RNG challenge because the games says so and maybe they really think its fun to kill Captain Vor a 50 times (in a worse case) a get all the Seer pistol parts.

 

I wish this game would have more things to offer that really matters. Story, interesting mechanics or things where players can interact with the world. Dojo wasn't a bad idea and the unfinished story section too. Why isn't DE focusing development more in this direction instead of making more carrots for the addicted and the powercreep with even moar new and powerful shiny toys that devalue your recent equipment because the new stuff is just better(Soma, Galatine).

 

Well maybe they just don't want to end like ArenaNet, because too many people would complain that there is nothing to do and all this so-called engame is just boring running around without "real" rewards and so they stop playing and the money stops flowing... because most rabbits just want their carrots.

 

This is a discussion we should have then, right? What would be ideal is if you could manage the game's design so there is a treadmill part, and a sandbox part. However, at present there is no viable sandbox part, although you can at least explore the game's environment and appreciate it like Shion963 said.

 

In my experience, the only way to engage people without the carrot of power-improving rewards is to make people feel like they're having an impact on the environment of the game itself through a storyline. The story itself becomes the carrot, and having campaigns, or some type of progression of story is reward enough. Or, make an interface which gives players the feeling they have some agency. For instance, what if when you cleared all the missions on a planet, like Europa, you unlocked a new mode where you could capture the planet? These would have a different series of missions that gradually changed the planet's "control" meter to the Tenno. After you captured the planet, you'd reach a final mode, where you would have a final series of missions fending off invasions or sabotage attempts.

 

You could only control so many planets; once you reach a certain number of controlled planets, there would be an "overwhelming invasion" campaign where one of your planets is attacked by so many forces that you can't fend them off. You'd still have a series of missions where you can perhaps blow up one of your bases to prevent it from falling into the hands of an enemy, or an evacuate mission, or a last stand mission to slow down the invasion.

 

Thus, you have three stages a planet can be in:

 

1. Uncontrolled.

2. Controlled.

3. Overwhelmed.

 

This allows for an infinite system, BECAUSE...

 

A. You can only stably control so many planets. Let's say 5 out of 14.

B. If you take more planets, even if you could take 14 out of 14, eventually 9 out of those 14 will be overwhelmed. At that point, they're returned to the Uncontrolled state, and you have to liberate them all over again.

 

Thus, this process can be repeated over and over, offering continuous gameplay. I'm not sure how many times I'd want to do that, maybe it will get boring eventually, BUT it's an example of what could be done to offer variety of gameplay that allows the player to influence the game and make choices.

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Honestly, I love the idea of Sandbox missions.  Having a lot to do in a mission (rather than get in, do the 1 objective, get out) could be quite fun, particularly if each objective ties into one another without requiring one another.

 

For example, you've got several objectives in a Sandbox mission.  If you go for the generator (defense-style objective), it could power turrets and whatnot throughout the level to help you as you accomplish other objectives.  If you instead go for the capture objective, capturing the guy could give you some intel on turrets you could set up that are facing the generator, making the defense-style objective that much easier.  In a sense, the sandbox missions could be like a Mega Man game:  each objective gives you a unique tool or bonus that will be helpful in completing the other objectives.

 

(With this kind of mission, though, it'd be nice if failing one objective didn't mean mission failure.  Failing one objective would simply mean that you don't get any bonus or reward for unsuccessfully attempting to complete it.)

 

Even if it wasn't like that, I still like the idea of Sandbox missions.  Great work OP!

 

+1

Edited by castem
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About the planetary system... I don't know. Like you said at the end its repetitive too and I saw this in Guild Wars 2's "dynamic" event loops that this gets boring quiet fast AND I bet it would take some time to program this and looking at the shape of the game we need something new to keep people playing in the near future. Especially now that loot tables are locked from datamining and we are grinding blind after future updates... what a bummer.

 

But this idea of a sandbox-mission mode, call it "Free Roam" or something, is quiet easy to do i guess and it really enchants the endgame. It would be kind of an endless mission. Just exploring the tileset and triggering random missions for extra rewards that stack like in survial and at the end of each mission you can choose the leave or continue exploring. Adding story bits or tileset-pieces that only appear in this gamemode would make it even more interesting.

 

Or after the achivement system they talked about a few livestreams ago goes live you could unlock nice (cosmetical?) stuff for your weapons and warframe or even get new dojo pieces if you're a clan leader... yeah, I really liked the introduction of the dojo but development in this section of the game is so painfully slow.

 

Or, if stealth gameplay would be a bit more viable, they could add rewards for completing a mission without detection. Well its rewards again but it makes the grind a bit more versatile.

 

Or add quick time events like in the original Dark Sector for melee finisher that do more damage or special melee attacks of enemies you have to counter or even bosses to add a bit more of action into the flow of the game and enhence melee combat and stealth, but this would require a bit of addional animation work.

 

Yeah. So in general I too believe there is A LOT of potential and there are many great ideas DE gets from the community, like your sandbox-mission, but at the moment I don't get the feeling that they are willing to use this potential. I want to believe that they just have their hands full of work, but your never know for sure.

 

I think our best bet is to keep that ideas for non-grindy solutions comming, hoping that they notice them and to wait after the notorious Damage 2.0 update. If all goes well I hope they do something for the longevity of this game after that because I think this should have pretty high priority to keep people interested after having veteran-grind-burnout...

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Well, I'm sorry that I didn't explain myself well enough to avoid sounding like I was just spouting hyperbole. If you want a concrete example (and honestly, the Cells thread is pretty much what I'm asking for, but without rewards), it would be a map set on one of the existing tilesets, which had these types of content:

 

1. Hackable terminals which could either start off objectives, or open up new areas. For instance, you aren't given the Rescue objective off the bat; you wander around the map exploring, then you find a heavily guarded area; you kill off the guards, find a terminal, hack it, and find the hostage. Or, you find a terminal in one of the far corners of the map, hack it, and a door unlocks which takes you into a research lab with a boss type in it.

2. Objective questlines that had a storyline. At present, while you may have multiple objectives within one map, it's not a continuous plot; it's just different things to accomplish before extracting. In this case, you might be tasked with stealing a datacase without being spotted (thus requiring stealth gameplay until that point), then you find that the datacase tells about a new weapon prototype under guard in a protected area, which you must go to retrieve. After you take it, the Corpus forces decide to initiate a self-destruct sequence for the facility, and you need to get out before it explodes. Simple plot-line, but progression from one thing to another.

 

Basically, either sandbox open-type explores, or questline missions, or a combination of both. I think the sandbox explore is more the ideal I have in mind. I don't think that's impossible to achieve, it can take pre-existing assets and be accomplished.

 

 

I'd like to see more of a sandbox concept fleshed out too. (and yay for Cells!)

 

I'll chime in slightly and say that sandbox necessitates much more interaction between the player and the environment (enemies/physical level/level states/time/weather/factions) than we currently have to keep it interesting.

 

One reason we can't currently have an effective sandbox is bc the only ways we interact with the env is kill everything (nearly instantly), pick up loot and turn off alarms. We need to figure out what the other forms of interaction would be.

 

Also, as the state of videogames change, players change. Pure sandboxes have guided achievement systems these days. I'm not saying that would be required, but players expect a lot more handholding than they used to in the original Sim City etc era. Sandbox games (GTA/Skyrim) generally have an open world but a consistent storyline that gives enough structure to engage the player in the first place.

Edited by notionphil
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-snip-

Agreed with #2 it is something I'd also like the see someday

 

Number 1 on the other hand is a whole other kettle of fish.  The hacking mini game is what it is atm and frankly is the probably the lowest thing on the totem poll but if you put an objective marker on it people will complain that it's just another hurdle to completing their mission.  If you don't put an objective marker on it people will complain that it's artificial [insert w/e you want here at this point I guess] because they'll have to explore of it and demand it be way pointed.  Once that is done the first crowd will come in and demand it is removed.  Now, you could add secondary objectives to the consoles but...

 

Have you ever been in a match with "that guy" who compulsively blows every glass window he can find?  I feel like this would be the same thing, perhaps not everybody wants to do the secondary stuff but then they'll be forced into it if ever ONE person wants to do it.  I tend to play in cells with friends and pugs so I'm obviously aware that "play with friends" is a solution (before anybody decides to add that tid bit of wisdom) but I feel that I a lot of people play with pugs just as a lot of people play solo (the group I think that would benefit most from this).

 

I guess you could add bonuses to hacking the consoles such as hacking into the local security net and gaining enemy radar but you'd have to be really careful not to invalidate mods because that's a whole other poop storm waiting to happen even if they're mods nobody uses. 

 

The place where a console could potentially shine?  Stealth.  If they changed the alert system to be setup so its room by room until a general alarm goes off coupled with check-ins and "shift rotation" consoles could be super useful.  Lets say there is a general timer in which you can complete the mission in stealth IF you kill anybody, this would be the shift rotation timer.  Now imagine there is a central command of sorts that performs periodic check ins which are timed to each room, so if you take out everybody in the room and nobody makes a check in the general alarm goes off after somebody is sent to check it out.  Now lets say you take out that first room, now you can hack a console and have the lotus plug in so she can do the check ins so you only have to worry about the shift rotation timer.   Yeah that was lengthy and not trying to turn this into a stealth thread but just trying to help you with your love of consoles. 

 

Regarding free roam, I'm honestly not a hundred percent on this but I think there may be technical limitations atm if you're looking for endless exploration or super big maps.  iirc they have a cap on dojo size - now that may be relatively arbitrary OR it may be a limitation of what they're working with I'm not sure but I guess just keep it mind. 

 

In regards to the treadmill, I believe the OG treadmill was the endless defense.  That only entertains for so long though I guess. 

Edited by Relkin
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Let me chip in my 2c here and say that the Derelicts should be accessible as a different tileset in the game outright.

 

Maybe with lower level enemies so that players get a taste of what it's like to fight Corrupted.

 

The Corrupted as a faction gel well together, with their little bit of every faction.

 

'What about the Vault mods? Are they going to be too easy to get?' you say.

 

No, I reply. What DE should have done was put them behind the same grind wall, but with more dangerous, and tougher enemies for end-gamers to overcome. Aka a sort of revamped nightmare mode. Nightmare mode was badly executed as it is..

 

The 'regular' derelict maps would have mods that are crucial for progression, such as direct damage boosts, redirection, rush, etc..

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Congratulations for stepping off the treadmill. Welcome to the real world, Neo. 

 

Me and my bro always went around the whole map when playing Void missions, and Derelict Void isn't an exception. We're not the 'efficient' players, completing missions solely for the reward, we play because it's fun. And going to a Void mission without exploring every corner of the level seems kinda wasteful. :/

 

The game is only as pavlovian as the players make it be. I personally play because I want to play, not because I need to get X mod to increase my DPS by Y%. It's just "hey, wanna do a Survival/Derelict/Void run?" "I wanna make Nyx. Lets clear to Naeglar!", and then we load up the game, and play. Often times we just go to Appolodorus to level weapons and just generally have fun smashing Grineer, or go to Fossa and kill Crewmen for XP until we get tired of it, treating Jackal like a nice cherry on top of the cake.

 

Just generally have fun. :)

This sums up my opinion pretty well.

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