Riven Disposition - A new system proposed

[Morthal]

On 2020-04-13 at 11:07 AM, Zimzala said:

No one forces people to pay these amounts for Rivens, that's on the players.

No one forces people to continually gamble. 10k plat is chump change to people I know personally, hell I even spent 12k in a couple weeks on crap I can't even remember. But the difference is that while I earned much of my plat in game either selling a beloved riven ( for capacity because DE can't be arsed to make it equal to the number of weapons you own) OR I bought a Prime Access and used the plat from it.

If you don't understand how shady modern business is, that's on you, the player.

[Morthal]

On 2020-04-13 at 10:22 AM, ligonare said:

*Facts and proposed ideas snip*

 

I love that people are wanting changes for the better, rather than just being jealous with "remove rivens". BUT my own solution is even easier for DE to implement and makes 100000% more sense than any other proposed. 

Set ALL RIVENS TO NEUTRAL. Done. 
This will focus all the attention on the base values of the weapon, rather than kneejerk reactions to popularity. If there is any objection to this kind of balance, then it's further proof that Rivens are nothing more than Hallmark cards on valentines day.

[AltairFerenc]

On 2020-04-13 at 7:22 PM, ligonare said:

Generally, a garbage weapon with a powerful disposition does not make the weapon more popular because a turd with gold brush is ultimately just a turd.

Agree I love the burtson prime, I have an almost perfect riven for it, and yes its still meh at best still, sure I forgot to uneqiup it in one of loudouts and accidenlty brought it into a requiem fissure and I did kill a lvl110 heavy gunner with it, with a half of a magazine... dispositoin needs a big change like idk, dispo 1-2 weapons  capping at low stat% and maxed dispo even bigger(because that mentioned burtson riven I have has almsot 300% damage and it's not doing much)

On 2020-04-13 at 7:22 PM, ligonare said:

This disposition system works to promote player investment in their weapons independent of popularity. I always wondered why Warframe tracks my weapon stats (usage, kills, headshots, assists) and this is finally the correct place to put these stats to good use. The more you use the weapon with the riven equipped, the more powerful the riven grows.

yes and meta weapons will be more meta, sounds good but on older weapons(like my burston and stuff) but omg if a thing like bramma comes out again that destroyes everything without a riven and meta players use it a lot and they get a riven for it, it's just goona be a win more thing not a help you win/have fun.

[DrivaMain]

I am in favor of increasing the dispo range from 0.5 to 1.5 to 1.0 to 2.0. It will not make Meta rivens useless and allow non meta rivens to have a fighting chance because of the higher dispo cap.

[0_The_F00l]

The main argument is partially flawed , as the rivens are not just based on popularity but also on DEs internal power scale.

And since we do not have usage statistics or what this scale is we will have to trust DE on the changes - which may be as advertised or completely arbitrary cause DE feels like it (they have shown this to be true by not changing the stats of certain weapons cause they would lose out the coveted 100% status option) which they have admitted to

On 2020-04-09 at 7:32 PM, [DE]Connor said:

As a general rule, weapon dispositions within a certain family are still adjusted partially in relation to one another. Otherwise, most base weapons would skyrocket to 1.5, and we’d have a very strange meta on our hands!

So the whole "least popular ones will have best dispo " is pretty much untrue already.

 

I do not mind your suggestions , but it cannot be permanent , it needs to have some sort of half life to decay and maintain.

Like rifles need to be fed with consecutive headshot kills just like kavats/kubrows to maintain their higher values.

melee needs to kill enemies while lifted,

pistols need to kill while aimgliding

 

Basically a variants of the unveiling conditions to work.

[Morthal]

2 minutes ago, AltairFerenc said:

Agree I love the burtson prime, I have an almost perfect riven for it, and yes its still meh at best still, sure I forgot to uneqiup it in one of loudouts and accidenlty brought it into a requiem fissure and I did kill a lvl110 heavy gunner with it, with a half of a magazine... dispositoin needs a big change like idk, dispo 1-2 weapons  capping at low stat% and maxed dispo even bigger(because that mentioned burtson riven I have has almsot 300% damage and it's not doing much)

yes and meta weapons will be more meta, sounds good but on older weapons(like my burston and stuff) but omg if a thing like bramma comes out again that destroyes everything without a riven and meta players use it a lot and they get a riven for it, it's just goona be a win more thing not a help you win/have fun.

Primary and Secondary weapons are good up to a point but eventually the game forces you into using Melee to even get kills. Burston Prime is my favorite primary but that doesn't make it my most used, rather something that does AoE will likely be on the top of the list for a majority of Warframe players, who understand their value in missions.
And what is fun if not winning? Experiencing a loss or fail in order to obtain experience in a game is superb but this is a game as live service, the same rules don't apply with consistency. Especially when we're talking about a time investment.

Put in 2-4 hours into survival only to host migrate or your server loses connection and it's all over, nothing to show for the time spent. There has to be some fun at some point, there has to be A POINT >_<

[AltairFerenc]

3 minutes ago, Morthal said:

Primary and Secondary weapons are good up to a point but eventually the game forces you into using Melee to even get kills. Burston Prime is my favorite primary but that doesn't make it my most used, rather something that does AoE will likely be on the top of the list for a majority of Warframe players, who understand their value in missions.
And what is fun if not winning? Experiencing a loss or fail in order to obtain experience in a game is superb but this is a game as live service, the same rules don't apply with consistency. Especially when we're talking about a time investment.

Put in 2-4 hours into survival only to host migrate or your server loses connection and it's all over, nothing to show for the time spent. There has to be some fun at some point, there has to be A POINT >_<

well personally I always hated  AOE weapons because they just so unskilled and this comes from a guys with a horrible aim but only likes weapons that requires good aim so on high levels I do have somwhat of a challange. And yes same burston prime is my favorite but not the most used so powering the rivens by personal usage is not that good because you love something use it have fun with it(with your powerful riven) then you get bored of it so you use other weapons then you go back to that old weapon only to realize it's outdated now nad sicne you havent used in for ages the riven is trash now. It's sounds good in theory but the more you think it might even has more flaws the one we have rn.

[Morthal]

14 minutes ago, AltairFerenc said:

well personally I always hated  AOE weapons because they just so unskilled and this comes from a guys with a horrible aim but only likes weapons that requires good aim so on high levels I do have somwhat of a challange. And yes same burston prime is my favorite but not the most used so powering the rivens by personal usage is not that good because you love something use it have fun with it(with your powerful riven) then you get bored of it so you use other weapons then you go back to that old weapon only to realize it's outdated now nad sicne you havent used in for ages the riven is trash now. It's sounds good in theory but the more you think it might even has more flaws the one we have rn.

Tysis is my most used secondary. Not because it was ever any good but because it could stack status like a mfr for CO. Ignis Wraith was an ez pick for primary because it melted Grineer armor and  corpus nullies, before we had to worry about ricochet dmg. Now Tysis is one of the strongest guns in the game because DE continually ranks up it's dispo without taking a look at it's mechanics and base damage...

I've been drinking the whiskey, I apologize if I seem angry or something-- I'm smiling if not laughing at the stuff going on here. Doesn't matter what they nerf, people like me, my clan, we'll find a way to make the cheese. And have fun while testing the boundaries of game.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Morthal

[AltairFerenc]

1 minute ago, Morthal said:

Tysis is my most used secondary. Not because it was ever any good but because it could stack status like a mfr for CO. Ignis Wraith was an ez pick for primary because it melted Grineer armor and  corpus nullies, before we had to worry about ricochet dmg. Now Tysis is one of the strongest guns in the game because DE continually ranks up it's dispo without taking a look at it's mechanics and base damage...

I've been drinking the whiskey, I apologize if I seem angry or something-- I'm smiling if not laughing at the stuff going on here. Doesn't matter what they nerf, people like me, my clan, we'll find a way to make the cheese.

nah you don't seem angry yet. I mean I don't care either what they nerf, I play the game mostly solo, and I use what I like not whats the META/BEST or whatever. we supposed to play games to have fun or a challange(souls like games) but in the game where there is no challange at all why bother with the best if it kills your fun?

[Morthal]

Respect for the solo player. It's a co-op game but I understand the need for a one man army type of challenge 🙂 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2020-04-13 at 11:30 AM, Aldain said:

That's the issue of Riven mods in a nutshell.

Percent based boosts won't make anything with an 8% crit/status chance viable.

A boost of 50% bonus damage on a 300 base damage weapon gives the same total boost as a 300% to a weapon with 50 base damage, that is why percent based scaling won't be able to do what DE intended with Rivens.

I feel like the intention vs reality is, has been, and will be a failure. 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

Delete them

[Zimzala]

5 hours ago, Morthal said:

If you don't understand how shady modern business is, that's on you, the player.

If you don't understand that there is nothing in the game that needs a Riven or that people make a choice to spend Plat on them, not forced by DE in any way, that's on you, the player.

Personal Responsibility.

[le_souriceau]

В 14.04.2020 в 00:34, Traumtulpe сказал:

It pains me to say this, but the current implementation of rivens is obviously not (primarily) guided by balancing concerns.

Typical scenario:

1. New weapon gets released.
2. It is excessively powerful to draw player interest, yet has has a high disposition.
3. Rivens sell for 10000 plat, weapon is ridiculously overpowered.
4. Nuclear nerfs incoming once DE sold enough plat.

Anyone with half a brain could take one look at this and come to the conclusion that new weapons would probably be better off with minimum disposition. I am sure these mods serve their purpose - it just isn't one you or me would appreciate.

Yeah, pattern of profiteering and trickery is obvious.

If DE ever wanted just HONEST balancing, they can just do 3 simple things:

1) every week rivens readjust fully automaticly by overall statistic of player use of weapons (number of kills);

1.1) some "starter" weapons can be excluded.

2) every new released weapon have lowest dispo for 4 weeks, just to things settle down, then ajusted as every other weapon;

3) from time to time basic stats of most unpolular weapons from list can be buffed by DE disign team, most popular -- subjected to nerf, if need be.

Thats all. Simple as that.

But they never do it, indeed.

Edited April 20, 2020 by le_souriceau

[Zimzala]

"They could just" - Battlecry of the Uninformed Armchair Brigade.

[Morthal]

This man is like " I'll have a Braton please!"
Are you sure you don't want Braton PRIME?
"No, that's too many extra letters, nothing in Warframe needs that many letters."

Probably eats a piece of bread and calls it end game toast.