The Power of Exodia Contagion (Min-Maxing it)

[AshleaUzu]

As someone who loves exodia contagion (to a fault - with 4 different 5/6 forma zaws built for it), and with Scarlet Spear showcasing its absolute superiority in blowing stuff up, I would like to gather some feedback about what truly affects Exodia Contagion, and how to min-max it.

Base Dmg, Crit Chance & Crit Dmg

We have to address the elephant in the room first, how does this work?

Based on wiki: The stats (Base Dmg, CC, CD, Status) of the Zaw's Strike are counted twice for base stats of the projectile.

This is VERY important as to why using Vargeet II Jai/Ruhang to max out CC is necessary, you won't be building combo so you need as high CC as you can get.

Hence, with a base CC of 64% (68% for Sepfahn and 72% for Kripath) of the projectile, hitting ~+370% CC on Mods (220%/275% on Sac Steel, the rest needs to be given with a Riven) is absolutely necessary to hit Red Crits for all Zaw Strikes

*Client Issues* Could be just me or this "doubling" of base stats only works if I am Host and not a Client. Needs further testing.

Zaw Builds

Non-Riven Strikes: Kripath/Sepfahn (higher CC, compounds alot more due to above damage calculation)

Riven Strikes: Rabvee, Ooltha, Kronsh (higher dispo means better stats)

Links: Vargeet II Ruhang/ Vargeet II Jai. 

I generally use Vargeet II Jai with a slower Grip. However, in my testing, small differences like this (while they do compound to potentially '000s of dmg difference in the red crit) honestly dont matter too much. It comes down to materials you have to build them, and making do with what you already have. 

That and make weapons that are pleasing to you (both visually and gameplay wise). To me thats very important. How the weapon attacks during the aim glide (the animation) etc must not be jarring to you!

Overall: Aim for Base Dmg + CC. With Quickening/Prime Fury in your build, you'll have enough Attk Speed.

Heavy Attack/Combo Counter

Does this matter? NO

Through my personal testing, since Melee 3.0 changes, Contagion is considered a "Normal Attack". Therefore, mods like Killing Blow and Corrupt Charge are quite redundant. If you try to heavy attack while in an aim glide, it forces you into the heavy attack ground slam.

Attack Speed

Why do I need attack speed? Simple answer, Usability.

Contagion has the ability to +400% dmg after 30m. Attack Speed increases Projectile Flight Speed (unsure of direct linear correlation), but your projectiles fly faster and do not succumb to the puny force of gravity. Hence, no need to overcompensate for the arc. 

Outcome: Use Quickening/Prime Fury

Transcending Contagion's Limits

Mutalist Quanta & Volt Shield.

Throw your contagion through them to increase CD and have additional +Electricity Dmg. Mutalist Quanta also increases your Crit Chance but you lose out some base dmg.

*Bugs/Unintended Feature*

>Disclaimer: I do not know if this is considered Bug Abuse. Its been reported by other players in the relevant forums.

Throwing your contagion through them has the weird effect of leaving your projectiles there PERMANENTLY.

How is this useful? Isn't this detrimental that I don't get the explosion on the 5th and last "tick" of dmg if my projectile hits the ground/impales an enemy?

You would be right, except this allows you to damage Condrixes without aiming at their weakpoint. Throw a few at the beginning and watch the Condrix die to the permanent secondary instances of dmg.

Mod Setup

Condrix: Sacrificial Steel, Sacrificial Pressure, Organ Shatter, Gladiator Might, Primed Fever Strike, Shocking Touch, Primed Fury/ Quickening, Spoiled Strike/Riven

Non-Condrix: Replace Sac Pressure with Primed Pressure Point.

Rivens

Aim for +CC +Dmg +CD +Elemental with a Neg thats not Attack Speed. (A combination of them)

Warframe Arcanes

Arcane Fury & Avenger

Conclusion

Thank you for reading this wall of text. If anyone has comments, please do comment. I'm always open to switching up builds (like dropping attk speed), trying new mods or new synergies etc. I hope this helps those who would like to t

Edited April 17, 2020 by AshleaUzu

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

Next thread: Exodia's upcoming nerf and why we should continue to hate DE.

[AshleaUzu]

I mean yeah 😪

But i've played warframe for a long while now, so i'll adjust, like most players do after some months of complaints. All it takes is some 23h build time forma :")

Edited April 17, 2020 by AshleaUzu

[DrivaMain]

You fool now they will nerf Exodia Contagion

 

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Hopefully it won't hit consoles before the event is over... Unlike how fast DE did manage to include those last minute changes to Limbo and Venari not healing defense targets.

No trouble leaving us with broken RJ and Liches for nearly 2 months, but a good ol' nerf will always find a way to quickly come to console land. Just watch Contagion be the same lmao.

Not that I hate the changes themselves, the event is sweet as is and Limbo is doing hecking fine. It's just the irony of it all. Even contagion would be fine to me since I mainly do Murex Raids.

[SneakyErvin]

All this work for contagion when you can get the same result with a low forma Redeemer Prime? Only difference is you cant use Redeemer on condrix while inside limbo rift, but that doesnt seem to be the case anyways since arcane avenger is used.

[Kaotyke]

4 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Next thread: Exodia's upcoming nerf and why we should continue to hate DE.

I should make a thread about the amazingness of the Braton Prime.

[Galuf]

The remnant dot should probably be removed, I'm not sure it is intended. However exodia contagion should really stay like that. It is something in the game that is imho meant to work well in this actual situation. Make the target moving and instantly it becomes way less appealling. It's like Gara's statsticks, it does very strong things but it is by no mean the end of the road in terms of scalling.

Historically melees have always been the most obvious way of breaking the game.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Galuf

[AshleaUzu]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

All this work for contagion when you can get the same result with a low forma Redeemer Prime? Only difference is you cant use Redeemer on condrix while inside limbo rift, but that doesnt seem to be the case anyways since arcane avenger is used.

Hmm no i dont rely on arcane avenger (its a recommendation). I dont use arcane avenger because i much rather rage + some survivability like guardian/ultimatum.

As to why i recommend it? Its far better than redeemer ever could be. Yes 2-4 forma on a rivened redeemer (more for a heavy attack double sac build), and yet a redeemer still needs two heavy attacks (unbuffed) to kill even the 11/12 condrix onwards.

Contagion on the other hand, easily one shots even the 15th condrix (ive managed to one shot the 17th condrix) - 1 throw. That and Contagion does NOT suffer from dmg falloff makes it a far better choice. Ive played enough 17 condrix runs (sub 20mins), and ive never been out damaged by a redeemer user, ever.

HOWEVER, you are right, redeemer is FAR easier to acquire (usable with less than 2 forma), and doesnt need the unobtainable (except during event/trading) Contagion - let alone farming requirements of a zaw. At this point its more of a power fantasy thing of min-maxing, and thats just the stuff i like :") nothing more really.

P.S isnt it more fun to throw an entire spear (tennogen polearm skin) then use some flimsy gunblade?

Edited April 17, 2020 by AshleaUzu
More details

[Krilexis]

I got the Exodia Contagion unranked from the last Plague Star event and well I use it on my zaw, I regret every time I see this kind of stuff about this arcane is.. why didn't I farm the arcanes from PS ???

[Loza03]

6 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Next thread: Exodia's upcoming nerf and why we should continue to hate DE.

Let's see.

Big damage in AoE: Check.

Big Single-target damage: check

You can be invincible whilst doing it: Check.

It has some crowd-control capabilities: Check.

 

Honestly, if you think this is fine and dandy and doesn't need changing, then you're the problem, I'm afraid.

[Mano]

vor 34 Minuten schrieb Loza03:

Honestly, if you think this is fine and dandy and doesn't need changing, then you're the problem, I'm afraid.

Honestly, if you think contagion is the problem and not the recently nerfed enemies,then you're the problem, I'm afraid.

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, --Q--Depression said:

Honestly, if you think contagion is the problem and not the recently nerfed enemies,then you're the problem, I'm afraid.

You could have buffed the enemies, and it wouldn't matter. Exodia Contagion, Saryn, Limbo, Loki, Ivara… Invisibility, permanent CC, nukes, immortal frames, these all allow the player to wilfully ignore content.

DE cannot make content if players can ignore content. 

[Voltage]

7 minutes ago, --Q--Depression said:

Honestly, if you think contagion is the problem and not the recently nerfed enemies,then you're the problem, I'm afraid.

Contagion is a problem, but it is part of a larger problem of neglected gear and neglected balance. You can't just nerf Contagion and expect Scarlet Spear to be more interesting or engaging. That would be a Limbo knee-jerk change. If DE really wants a more balanced game, they really need to tackle the core balance problems that affect everything from perma-CC to brain-dead Bramma usage and all sorts of things. Personally I don't find this problem feasible to resolve and thus, Contagion should stay the same.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Voltage

[Loza03]

7 minutes ago, Voltage said:

That would be a Limbo knee-jerk change. If DE really wants a more balanced game, they really need to tackle the core balance problems that affect everything from perma-CC to brain-dead Bramma usage and all sorts of things.

Speaking of - as knee-jerk as it was, the Limbo change is probably one of the more successful nerfs, and IMO it made the space mode at least substantially more fun.

Limbo's still useful, as he undoubtedly stems the tide, but he no longer simply enables the player to entirely disengage entirely with that side of the event. Granted, there's still plenty of cheese that does enable this, but every little helps.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

Let's see.

Big damage in AoE: Check.

Big Single-target damage: check

You can be invincible whilst doing it: Check.

It has some crowd-control capabilities: Check.

 

Honestly, if you think this is fine and dandy and doesn't need changing, then you're the problem, I'm afraid.

Let's see.

Peacemakers.

Let's see.

Serene Storm.

Let's see.

Saryn.

Let's see.

Equinox.

Let's see.

Gara.

Lets see.

Kuva Bramma.

Let's see.

Melee mods.

Let's see.

Riven mods.

Let's see.

Redeemer.

Let's see.

Revenant.

Let's see.

Novas 2.

Let's see.

Limbo on anything not a sentient.

Let's see.

Octavia.

 

Honestly, if you think this is fine and dandy and doesn't need changing, then you're the problem, I'm afraid.

 

[Loza03]

Just now, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Let's see.

Peacemakers.

Let's see.

Serene Storm.

Let's see.

Saryn.

Let's see.

Equinox.

Let's see.

Gara.

Lets see.

Kuva Bramma.

Let's see.

Melee mods.

Let's see.

Riven mods.

Let's see.

Redeemer.

Let's see.

Revenant.

Let's see.

Novas 2.

Let's see.

Limbo on anything not a sentient.

Let's see.

Octavia.

 

Honestly, if you think this is fine and dandy and doesn't need changing, then you're the problem, I'm afraid.

 

Well, good thing I think most, if not all of these things need changing.

[Voltage]

33 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Speaking of - as knee-jerk as it was, the Limbo change is probably one of the more successful nerfs, and IMO it made the space mode at least substantially more fun.

I heavily disagree. If you believe Limbo was the only option to achieve what he achieved, you are blatantly wrong. The Limbo nerf was objectively unsuccessful on the intention of the change, and it was the lowest effort change to a much larger issue. Scarlet Spear space missions are a glorified mobile defense, and the mission design is what permits Limbo. Limbo is a problem, like Contagion, but solving said problem is way larger than nerfing one piece of gear.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Voltage

[SenorClipClop]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Honestly, if you think this [all damaging abilities etc] is fine and dandy and doesn't need changing, then you're the problem, I'm afraid.

Well, #1 you're assuming something of another person's ideas on literally zero ground and basing an argument with them on that (their reply just above has already rendered your leg to stand on here non-existent so there's that).

And #2, whataboutism doesn't really work with this. DE doesn't seem to go by hard-and-fast rules about what they rebalance, it's pretty case-by-case. The cases of nerfs tend to follow a sort of pattern, though.Consider these questions:

• Could you consider this thing "way too strong"?
• Does this one option (for say an Arcane) make it so that every single other option you can equip (every other Arcane in that class) seems absolutely purposeless by comparison?
• Does this single feature completely change the way the game is played, and does that change remove a significant amount of needed input from the player to accomplish in-game tasks?

If more than one of those questions is answered "yes", don't trust that DE won't nerf it. Agree with nerfing or not, history indicates that things falling into this pattern are likelier to get nerfed.

[Loza03]

Just now, Voltage said:

I heavily disagree. If you believe Limbo was the only option to achieve what he achieved, you are blatantly wrong. The Limbo nerf was objectively unsuccessful on the intention of the change, and it was the lowest effort change to a much larger issue. Scarlet Spear space missions are a glorified mobile defense, and the mission design is what permits Limbo. Limbo is a problem, like Contagion, but solving said problem is way larger than nerfing one piece of gear.

'Only' Option? Nonono. But it was still at least one option that allowed the player to, with minimal effort, completely disregard the activity.

Point was, usually knee-jerk nerfs don't fix anything or don't really make the gameplay more fun, just more tedious. This one did - Limbo at least is now more fun in Scarlet Spear space missions. Does that fix the whole thing? Of course not. But it does at least help, compared with, for example, the Venari nerf that went through at the same time.

 

Yes, there is a larger issue, but it's substantially larger than Scarlet Spear. As in, the entire game is affected. No single change is ever going to do something major to it. I'm judging the Limbo change by its peers, not by the issue as a whole.

[CodeUltimate]

You should have not posted this on the forums xd. Now we will have braindead people saying: ''nerf saryn, nerf volt and nerf contagion too.''

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Well, good thing I think most, if not all of these things need changing.

You might as well play a different game. You're gonna spend all your time wanting to change every facet of the game instead of playing it. 

I heard Super Mario Brothers has an acceptable level of power creep you may like.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

2 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

Well, #1 you're assuming something of another person's ideas on literally zero ground and basing an argument with them on that (their reply just above has already rendered your leg to stand on here non-existent so there's that).

And #2, whataboutism doesn't really work with this. DE doesn't seem to go by hard-and-fast rules about what they rebalance, it's pretty case-by-case. The cases of nerfs tend to follow a sort of pattern, though.Consider these questions:

• Could you consider this thing "way too strong"?
• Does this one option (for say an Arcane) make it so that every single other option you can equip (every other Arcane in that class) seems absolutely purposeless by comparison?
• Does this single feature completely change the way the game is played, and does that change remove a significant amount of needed input from the player to accomplish in-game tasks?

If more than one of those questions is answered "yes", don't trust that DE won't nerf it. Agree with nerfing or not, history indicates that things falling into this pattern are likelier to get nerfed.

No problem. I'll get to work reporting almost every single frame, mod, and weapon that does this. 

[SenorClipClop]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

No problem. I'll get to work reporting almost every single frame, mod, and weapon that does this. 

You just took the only thing that wasn't the point and went with that... astounding...

[Loza03]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

You might as well play a different game. You're gonna spend all your time wanting to change every facet of the game instead of playing it. 

I heard Super Mario Brothers has an acceptable level of power creep you may like.

Well, since you want to sling insults and 'just don't play it' instead of actual defences, lets go through all of these.

3 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Peacemakers.

Literal aimbot with high damage with the only downside being energy drain - which is a non-entity thanks to Energy Pads and Zenurik.

3 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Serene Storm.

Don't have enough experience, first or second-hand of Baruuk to draw conclusions, but from what I've heard, it has some substantial drawbacks. Notably, it doesn't just run on energy as stated above and its damage is mediocre outside of melee range.

3 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Saryn.

Probably one of the better designed nuke frames, to be honest. She's overtuned, by a significant amount, but she does have an actual gameplay loop. IMO, for as sizable a problem she presents, there are bigger fish to fry.

3 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Equinox.

50 metre, armour-piercing damage that goes into the tens of thousands AND projects a passive damage radius?

Do NEED to explain why that doesn't need engagement (past 'headshot a mook or two) in order to be effective?

3 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Gara.

Slightly better, but her setup isn't really from a gameplay loop - it's not affected by anything environmental or skill, and so whilst it requires some engagement, it does still bypass. Oh, and it can do literally infinite damage whilst simultaneously granting 90% damage resistance.

3 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Kuva Bramma.

The amount of extrinsic investment makes me understand its power, so I'd look at its ease-of-use. Probably going after its ability to sustain its power, most likely by harshly affecting its ammo, or its draw time (makes very little sense that it shares the fastest draw time of all bows) or, probably, both.

3 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Melee mods.

Melee at least has, y'know, melee range, in other words, forcing the player to run headfirst into a crowd of enemies with guns. Sure, there's some questionable stuff in there, but much less to the 'no engagement required' respect.

Many of its problems stem from being able to subvert that basic limitation, either via invisibility or invulnerability, or by range. Such as the aforementioned Exodia Contagion or...

3 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Redeemer.

Slightly out-of-order, but yeah, literal gun-blade. I feel like this was one of a handful of weapons more balanced back in melee 2.0 - its pellets couldn't crit, and because of its multiple levels of falloff thanks to aggressive bullet spread, literal falloff, and the fact that the fewer projectiles hit, the fewer status effects procced to have condition overload meant that its range was more limited, especially against human-sized targets which a wide spread could easily miss. Plus, only one target at a time at a relatively slow fire rate, if you wanted any accuracy, and before the prime you also needed to set up with another weapon to hit that power level. Again, melee mods are tuned to the idea that you are walking up to the gun-toting hordes to hit them with your sword. Risk/reward. Less applies when your sword is also a gun.

3 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Riven mods.

This goes in large part to the handling.

It took DE way too long to split variants, and doing on popularity not power was a very bad idea. Not a mind blowing idea that Rivens weren't a good move.

3 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Revenant.

Do you WANT to call Gears here?

Jokes aside, his four especially is absolutely a 'press 4 and watch fireworks' button that requires little from the player.

3 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Novas 2.

Honestly some damage fall off would work wonders. Despite it being a controllable projectile, it's extremely slow-moving nature makes it harder to hit the target, necessitating that the player be more alert than many abilities.

Just because an ability is powerful, incredibly so doesn't make it automatically overpowered. It also comes down to the drawbacks of that power's use, namely, are there any and how significant are they?

3 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Limbo on anything not a sentient.

Oh I could go ON about my main frame, and this aspect of him which I loathe entirely.

3 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Octavia.

Spoiler

 

Tl;Dw, Scaling Damage, Invulner- I mean invisibility and Crowd Control, all tied into the repetitive pressing of a handful of buttons, and that's it! Of course she's OP as hell. Video just demonstrates a (fortunately now defunct) example of that.