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Arcane Energize looks weak on paper. How is it in practice?


FadeToNull
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6 hours ago, Yakhul said:

I don't know why people still complain about energy. Like, energy should be the least of your worries right now. Like, just look at this:

- 100x Energy pizza packs
- Arcane Energize
- Energizing Shot (yes, it can be used with Arcane Energize)
- Energy Generator (Dethcube unique mod. With the right setup and weapon, you will always be getting energy from your cube)
- Zenurik

I mean, I run an energy hungry frame which is frost, and just by using 3 of the 5 methods above, i never run out of energy, ever. (if you wanna know, i have my dethcube with the energy generator mod, i use arcane energize maxed ofc, and zenurik)

Frost doesn't have channeling abilities, so he wouldn't need to worry of energy issues. Equinox, titania, (among others) would. Also.

 

4 hours ago, FadeToNull said:

I don't think anyone's complaining. Just discussing -- there's different ways to get energy. Is AE a good one? That's the question.

I'd say some frames don't need AE and will be fine without it, however other frames where you might use their abilities more may need them. And with it you can get away with negative efficiency on some builds that you otherwise wouldn't be able to.

Now, you can bypass all that by spamming pizzas, but what if you're in an area that you can't use gear (like Sanctuary Onslaught)? Or, you just don't want to spend resources like that on pizzas.

Again, it isn't necessary for every frame, but it's a nice quality of life addition for those that use it. 

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7 hours ago, FadeToNull said:

Rank 5 Acane Energize gives a 60% chance to get 150 energy with a 15-second cooldown when you pick up an energy orb. That's a lot of barriers between you and a really small amount of energy.

Not quite. 

25 energy vs 175 total energy. 

If you have energy pulse that goes upto 37 energy vs 187. 

Now say you have deathcube. Your deathcube gives you 1 energy every 10 kills it participates in. Channeled warframe abilities now have a sustainable way to prolong themselves. 

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I was running two sets on casting frames for like 3 years. Before I was constantly topped off. Now I stay above half almost all the time and I can't remember that last time I ran out of energy. Granted I've never been one to run Bling Rage outside of Mirage, and you don't even need energize for that. I was initially worried but it hasn't been a big deal in practice.

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Now that I finally have Energize at a decent rank, I'm experimenting with a build which maximizes Ember's Immolate uptime. I'm using:

  • Arcane Energize
  • decent Efficiency/Duration to manage Immolate drain
  • Primed Flow
  • Augur Secrets and Augur Reach (mostly for the Augur effect, stacking Shields for Immolate's DR)
  • Exothermic (augment that makes Inferno targets drop Energy Orbs)
  • Energy Conversion (20% better than Intensify and you're getting constant Energy Orbs for it)

Fill in other mods to taste. It's working quite well for Scarlet Spear missions. Fire Blast strips all Armor from Grineer and Sentients, Inferno is heavy tick damage over time.

Edited by SenorClipClop
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14 hours ago, (PS4)AbBaNdOn_ said:

Ember being more tanky now has let her be melee focus'ed.  Because of Zenurik I dont have combo duration from Naramon.  Which means I have to build that into her weapon.  I went even a step further and just dumped combo all together and just gave her a really high starting CC. 

Just do arbitrations and grind for swift momentum, it is the best aura out there if you wanna melee. Frees up weapon slots both for combo and heavy attack builds.

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It's not as potent as it used to be, but still gets things done pretty well. Especially for those moments you get swamped in parasitic eximi. Not worth the old plat price or Eidolon farm, but absolutely worth the SS farm.

Edited by Serafim_94
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Uhhh, I don't know on what planet an instant 150 energy is a pittance, but for the vast majority of frames it's a huge injection of resource. If your frame is that energy hungry where it doesn't seem like much, then you're likely at a point where you need all the energy you can get anyways so it's still useful. As for the other common methods of restoring energy.

 

-Zenurik's Energizing Dash is free energy but gives it to you slowly over a 30 second duration. It also requires you to stop what you're doing and hop into Operator mode every 30 seconds to maximize its benefit. Lastly, it stops being beneficial if channeling an ability.

-Energy Pads give a metric boatload of energy over a relatively short duration, but do require resources to build and thus use. They also require the user to stand within a small area for as long as they wish to benefit from it.

-Energizing Shot is actually pretty good since it's an Exilus mod, but to benefit from it you have to be using your secondary weapon and shoot the energy orbs, and even then the gain only turns 25 energy into 52.5. Though technically in an energy orb rich environment, and assuming you're missing enough energy from your pool/have the capacity for it, you can stand to benefit more from this because of Arcane Energize's cooldown, but that's a very specific scenario. Also, being a mod, it will likely require an extra Forma or two to slot into most weapons.

-Energy Generator is pretty good overall, but it's a mod that's specific to Dethcube, only grants 25 extra energy every so often, and becomes useless if your Sentinel gets popped, which can happen pretty easily in high level content (screw you Bombards) so is probably the weakest on this list.

 

Lastly, Arcanes cost you nothing to equip and use, and every Warframe can slot two of them. Arcane Energize is almost universally beneficial and is passive, requiring no special actions or builds to take advantage of. It's not necessarily that it's this ultra good "gotta have it" Arcane it's that, for most Warframes, it's a passive buff that is pretty much always useful, so what else are you going to put in that slot?

Also, for most people, more energy = more ability usage = more fun. It's why Zenurik is so popular in the first place.

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To get things in perspective, overall arcane energize is better than having exodia brave(and stacking it) + zenurik if you are not channeling energy.

For your everyday content that involves mass murdering things(lich farming) or camping, if you have your tankyness figured out, it is often the best choice. It is definitely the most fun arcane, spamming stuff is fun.

Edited by Galuf
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23 hours ago, Radagosh said:

I ran 2 energize sets with a 45% efficiency ember (that's 45% not 145%), for 2 hours w/o having to recast her 4 once when that was a channeled ability.

In other words Energize makes energy a ressource you don't have to care about, no matter what your efficiency is at.

You can't equip 2 sets of the same arcane, just 1 and that's why they gave the new rank 5, wich came with the changes for energize (discussed here) and a lot of other arcanes.

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vor einer Stunde schrieb xHeretic:

You can't equip 2 sets of the same arcane, just 1 and that's why they gave the new rank 5, wich came with the changes for energize (discussed here) and a lot of other arcanes.

you can't use ember's channeled ability either. Point still stands Energize removes energy from being a ressource you have to care about even with just one set and a cooldown between procs, especially with the possibility of the new energizing shot shennanigans.

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In terms of how useful it actually is in practice, it can be really useful depending on the frame, or not, and in general it's just something handy to have.

The change to give it a cooldown, but restore more energy, on top of not being able to double-up the arcane means that you can expect a lot less strength out of it than you used to get.

On the other hand there are plenty of frames that run Drain abilities, and there are also plenty of frames that, even with Efficiency, can be run as spam casters for really good effect.

Since the 150 Energy is as a bonus on top of the 25 from the orb, it means you're always going to be restoring 175 energy at a time, and the chance being 60% is actually incredibly strong as in practice that means you almost always trigger it again once the cool down ends.

Basically what it does is what a lot of the other Arcanes now do; allows you a bonus outside of your modding. So a frame might not have to use as much Efficiency, getting better Duration just by not using Fleeting, and still be able to sustain their casting. Or a frame with a Drain can skip out a little of the Duration in favour of some other stat because the Energise will burst them up when they run low with the less efficient build. If you have a frame that can spawn Energy Orbs (like Nezha) it's literally a key to negative efficiency builds.

It's especially useful if you're running a frame that has a base high energy capacity, because it will get you up to max far more reliably than the time it takes to wait around for Zenurik's Energising Dash and so on.

But again, it's just a handy Arcane. When you want to build something very specific for a purpose, such as a Valhalla Banshee with invisibility and exploiting her Savage Silence, then maybe Arcane Trickery and Arcane Ultimatum are more the things you want to go for. If you enjoy the Ability Melee frames like Wukong, then maybe Arcane Rage is more your style. If you like Mesa then definitely look into Arcane Precision.

But if you just want a generalist build that will go well with everything, then Energise will fit nicely, along with any complimentary mod like Grace, Guardian, Arachne or Barrier.

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11 hours ago, Flyshlee said:

A 60% chance to get 150 energy and share it with your allies instead of a measly 25 is a big deal. Dunno how that's not obvious. 

Here's how: you don't understand the question.

Several others did understand and gave solid, on-point answers.

Consider reading the thread.

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18 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Not quite. 

25 energy vs 175 total energy. 

If you have energy pulse that goes upto 37 energy vs 187. 

Now say you have deathcube. Your deathcube gives you 1 energy every 10 kills it participates in. Channeled warframe abilities now have a sustainable way to prolong themselves. 

I'd get the 25/37 with or without AE, so they don't count.

You have a point re Dethcube. I prefer Helios or Carrier (depending on situation) for the usual reasons. But in light of your observation I may reconsider, especially with Equinox or Ivara.

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Well I maxed AE and tried it for a few Scarlet ground runs with Nova and Wisp, running Naramon. I was with a full squad.

It went expected: I ran dry as usual, and had to drop pads. Maybe a little less often. But the difference was negligible.

Like I said up top: if there are no orbs, AE won't help.

But that's just a few runs in one game mode. I'm looking forward to trying it elsewhere. I think for Spyvara it could be the dog's bollocks.

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On 2020-04-19 at 11:45 AM, FadeToNull said:

Here's how: you don't understand the question.

Several others did understand and gave solid, on-point answers.

Consider reading the thread.

Try to be less condescending from now on. 

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