Unpopular Warframe opinions thread?

[(PSN)Sentiel]

16 hours ago, Zahnny said:

I actually enjoyed that the Liches were able to kill us. Though that might be more the fact I just liked the grapple animations and throws.

I liked the idea of Liches being able to instakill us. They are supposed to be our nemesis, so they need to be strong and be able to harm us more effectively.

That said, I don't like to be killed because I had a incorrect mod sequence because I have no control over that, since the mod order is random. I want the Lich to kill me because it adapted to me and defeated me in a fair fight, not because I lost rock-paper-scissors.

 

My unpopular opinion:

All RNG rewards (random stats on Railjack components for example) and microscopic dropchances (having a 1% or less for a certain drop) should be removed and rewards should be something you earn through effort, skill, and commitment, not through sheer luck.

Best example given: Shocking Step Ephemera VS Tenebrous Ephenera

[SneakyErvin]

Just now, Aldain said:

That was my life on the forums for about 3.5 months.

Now I'm cackling like a madman over being right in the long haul.

Well you gotta love those people that try to tell you what you actually mean when you really dont mean what they want you to mean. And I remember you getting lots of those "it's just a revive!" or worse "git gud!" (and honestly meaning it) and completely missing your actual point. I'm glad you stood your ground about it so the bullS#&$ mechanic got removed. Meta GM'ing is the worst GM behavior.

[AltairFerenc]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)grayhyh said:

I already do that tho...i did once a lvl 5 lich with an unpotatoed oberon before the mainline update and a kuva tonkor with element that the lich aooearantly wasnt weak to,went out of ammo and had to go rabbit hopping and killing enemies to get ammo,it wasnt a challenge per say it was just me going rabbit jumping and taking forever to kill that lich on exterminate,but ye i do agree with you that you dont really need to go nuke frames and meta always,i only go meta if i really dont feel like paying attention to warframe or on something like star chart or nidus/harrow parts farming becuase those are boring.

well tonkor is a nuke weapon, and unpotaotd oberon is still strong since all he needs is the 3 augment rage and health and I don't think he can die. Lich weaknesses are interesting to say at least one of my liches had viral weakness yet a corrosive build did more damage on the chakurr aginst it so idk. I mistly play squishy unpopolar frames with semi or burst weapons as I said with a bad aim so I do have a fair amout of challange there, like with that said lich I mentioned I played with mirage and I stopped twice for more than 4 seconds and I got oneshotted each time by a napalm. I have bad aim while standing still even worse while moving so I had pressure (mostly because I'm bad I know) but I had a lot fun with those unending high elveled mobs running around trying not to die but kill too.

[Aldain]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Well you gotta love those people that try to tell you what you actually mean when you really dont mean what they want you to mean.

Story of my life around here.

It wasn't just the Lich thing, people just love attempting to cram words in my mouth no matter how blunt or obvious I am in what I say...and I'm not the only one that happens to around here.

If I had 5 plat for every time somebody told me "YOU JUST WANT EVERYTHING NERFED" when I was saying something like "Pressing 4 to win is literally making game design impossible for DE" I'd be able to buy every Tennogen cosmetic.

[(NSW)ShinNL]

I feel completely detached from most popular opinions on the Warframe subreddit. I don't feel comfortable with most of those representing a player like me.

- I have a Lich that's more than 2 months old, because I don't actively grind the heck out of it... like it should be?
- I'm enjoying Scarlet Spear very much. The rewards are nice, but it's just a means to get people to play and the gameplay is varied and fun and interactive. I'm making a lot friends while doing this event.

I'm also quite done with giving people the excuse of 'they criticize because they are passionate'. No, not when 99% of everything is done right and 1% is done wrong, people always focus on that 1%. As a human being, I just cannot excuse such negative behavior and I wouldn't want to be around these kind of people in real life either.

The only place I can find people just talking about the game and having fun is on a specific forum, which is not this one nor is it Reddit, where we can discuss builds, help people and celebrate new farmed stuff. Like it should be.

A super simple example:
Do I mind Stance Forma? No, because I can just ... not get it? Done. Bam. No one killed my dog or ruined my life. Any other reaction and I can't help but think "What's wrong with you?".

I feel like the in-game community is nothing like the forum or YouTube community. The people in-game are the real people actively playing the game. Like damn, I want them to stop but I don't think they ever will. Nothing is ever good enough. At some points I think people are just using bots to spread negativity. It isn't even reality, just some surreality where everything is bad.

Had to get that off my chest.

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Story of my life around here.

It wasn't just the Lich thing, people just love attempting to cram words in my mouth no matter how blunt or obvious I am in what I say...and I'm not the only one that happens to around here.

If I had 5 plat for every time somebody told me "YOU JUST WANT EVERYTHING NERFED" when I was saying something like "Pressing 4 to win is literally making game design impossible for DE" I'd be able to buy every Tennogen cosmetic.

Yep. The good old "go solo then" when someone mentions the wish of nerfing AoE frames is also a classic. It doesnt help the game grow by shutting up about such issues. And often you have that same person who hates every idea regarding balancing 4-to-win frames complaining about how "the game isnt challenging enough!".

I think there is a medical term for that, bipolar.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

9 hours ago, (NSW)ShinNL said:

-snip-

Forums: Nuking is terrible and kills the game, no one wants it at all!

In-game: Hey can we have some nukers please?!

 

[(NSW)Quarky]

Conclave deserves attention from DE.

[SpicyDinosaur]

35 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

No, it was actually the first part, RNG. People did however complain on those criticizing the RNG part by using comments such as "it doesnt matter, it is just a revive", "not like you need revives anyway", "player better so you dont need revives" and other mindless comments. They never actually understood the point that those against the RNG nature of it tried to get across. People often answered those people and pointed out to them that they dont care about a revive going away, but that the concern was regarding getting killed without being able to counter it based on RNG, where again the person would answer back "but it is only a revive" as if the person with the concern was talking to a wall.

It isn't actually RNG though. It's a failed attempt to solve a puzzle. More than that you're just digging in with the whole "it's the principle of the matter gais!"

[SneakyErvin]

Just now, SpicyDinosaur said:

It isn't actually RNG though. It's a failed attempt to solve a puzzle. More than that you're just digging in with the whole "it's the principle of the matter gais!"

It is a random result so yes it is RNG, so yes the death was based on RNG. It isnt a puzzle because there is no pattern we can learn. A puzzle would have handed us clues that would have removed the RNG if we were able to figure out the meaning of the clues.

Even if we wait til we have 3 mods unlocked on the lich, it still comes down to a game of chance i.e a game of RNG.

[Tyreaus]

7 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

It's a failed attempt to solve a puzzle.

As a pretty big puzzle aficionado, a well-designed puzzle doesn't involve guessing at any stage. So probably not the most apt analogy.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

Vector pad is incredibly useful...

[SpicyDinosaur]

Just now, SneakyErvin said:

It is a random result so yes it is RNG, so yes the death was based on RNG. It isnt a puzzle because there is no pattern we can learn. A puzzle would have handed us clues that would have removed the RNG if we were able to figure out the meaning of the clues.

Even if we wait til we have 3 mods unlocked on the lich, it still comes down to a game of chance i.e a game of RNG.

Technically, were both kind of right. But keep in mind, the RNG happens only once. Then you have to determine what it got set to. That's the puzzle.

 

With three mods unlocked or locked, nothing changes about the puzzle once you get your lich.

[megamino]

Well,

For me it's a cool mechanic when a boss can 1 instakill us, and remember the we still have the power fantasy because of revives. With the current situation, it doesn't have any much differences between you are instakilled or the kuva lich show their guns into you every now and then. It's incorrect to feel that lich are powerful than warframe.

But again, this opinion doesn't change anything in the mechanic or design so i will shut up and enjoy anygame.

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Technically, were both kind of right. But keep in mind, the RNG happens only once. Then you have to determine what it got set to. That's the puzzle.

 

With three mods unlocked or locked, nothing changes about the puzzle once you get your lich.

Still not a puzzle in any shape or form, still fully RNG based. Puzzles are not based on RNG.

edit: Calling it a puzzle you may aswell go all out and call it chess, or a game of tabletop warhammer.

Edited April 21, 2020 by SneakyErvin

[Tyreaus]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Still not a puzzle in any shape or form, still fully RNG based. Puzzles are not based on RNG.

I think the more accurate term is "luck", FWIW. _{Seems to be a bit of hang-up on the term "RNG"}

Edited April 21, 2020 by Tyreaus

[SpicyDinosaur]

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Still not a puzzle in any shape or form, still fully RNG based. Puzzles are not based on RNG.

edit: Calling it a puzzle you may aswell go all out and call it chess, or a game of tabletop warhammer.

Just because you don't like the puzzle mechanic doesn't make it not a puzzle.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

17 hours ago, Zahnny said:

I actually enjoyed that the Liches were able to kill us. Though that might be more the fact I just liked the grapple animations and throws.

I kinda wish the fail animation would still play but it just doesn't kill us and they could add more animations. I like the visual of the lich knocking us around as it emphasizes the lich is supposed to be an equal to us.

But unpopular opinion of mine, grind and rng is essential as it gives us reason to play the game. If everything was handed to us on a sliver platter this game wouldn't nowhere near the player numbers. And people who just now realized the rng and grind in this game are a frightening type of slow on the up take

[Hypernaut1]

10 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Still not a puzzle in any shape or form, still fully RNG based. Puzzles are not based on RNG.

edit: Calling it a puzzle you may aswell go all out and call it chess, or a game of tabletop warhammer.

it would be RNG if the combination changed every time. It doesnt, Its a sequence to solve. Getting the wrong sequence is a fail. 

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Just because you don't like the puzzle mechanic doesn't make it not a puzzle.

Definition of puzzle.

a game, toy, or problem designed to test ingenuity or knowledge.

The kuva system tests neither of those. There is also no thought involved that changes the outcome. Certain mods have no links to other mods, there is no specific order to it that makes sense or so on. We cant learn from it to solve it properly, the chance is always there to determine the outcome, it is a randomly rolled order of mods when the lich is created.

The system is very much not a puzzle. If it was a puzzle we'd have knowledge that would test our intelligence, like certain mods having priorities over others depending which 3 are present in the kill code. Right now we are at the hands of fate, the luck of the draw, the six eyed snake and so on.

[Tyreaus]

17 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Just because you don't like the puzzle mechanic doesn't make it not a puzzle.

What one could argue doesn't make it a puzzle is that it can't be fully internalized. In theory, one could take any kind of puzzle, memorize all of the given initial states and information of the puzzle (e.g. x-ray vision in the case of multi-part physical puzzles, just as a limit of human senses), and solve it in one's own head via knowledge and reason. Guessing and checking requires interaction with the source. If that ends up a requirement, it breaks internalization. If it can't be internalized, it's not a puzzle.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Tyreaus

[SneakyErvin]

13 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

it would be RNG if the combination changed every time. It doesnt, Its a sequence to solve. Getting the wrong sequence is a fail. 

But the mods have zero connection to eachother, it is always based on chance which 3 mods are part of the lich. We cant remove the chance, ever.

if you unlock all 3 and start your tries there and then slot 1 will have a 33% chance to be right. If that fails the second try will have a 50% chance to be right. When slot 1 is correct slot two still takes up to 2 tries. Chance everywhere.

We dont solve it, because we arent given any concrete clues. If we could actually solve the solution we'd be able to remove the chance completely, we cant.

edit: Just the fact that the system randomly generates the kill order on creation makes the system RNG based, because it is a random number generator that picks 3 random numbers out of 24(?).

Edited April 21, 2020 by SneakyErvin

[SpicyDinosaur]

1 minute ago, Tyreaus said:

What one could argue doesn't make it a puzzle is that it can't be fully internalized. In theory, one could take any kind of puzzle, memorize all of the given initial states and information of the puzzle, and solve it in one's own head via knowledge and reason. Guessing and checking requires interaction with the source. If that ends up a requirement, it breaks internalization. If it can't be internalized, it's not a puzzle.

I've never heard puzzles defined like that.

 

If I set a stone inside a cup with two empty cups and shuffle them all around, and you have to find the right cup that has the stone, I have made a very simple puzzle. Why you insist on defining puzzles so narrowly is beyond me.

[Aldain]

I kind of agree, even old Resident Evil puzzles had more to figure out than Requiem mod order.

It is all a brute force guessing game, there's no thought process other than "It isn't that one, NEXT".

It isn't like "This mod means that at X Y and Z mods can be in the pool" or "If this Requiem is present X Requiem cannot be in the combination".

Professor Layton is a puzzle game, Requiems are more like a blindfolded "Which shape goes in which hole" thing.

[trunks013]

29 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Still not a puzzle in any shape or form, still fully RNG based. Puzzles are not based on RNG.

edit: Calling it a puzzle you may aswell go all out and call it chess, or a game of tabletop warhammer.

Dont know about warhammer but there is a lot of chess puzzle actualy ^.^ 

8 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Definition of puzzle.

a game, toy, or problem designed to test ingenuity or knowledge.

The kuva system tests neither of those. There is also no thought involved that changes the outcome. Certain mods have no links to other mods, there is no specific order to it that makes sense or so on. We cant learn from it to solve it properly, the chance is always there to determine the outcome, it is a randomly rolled order of mods when the lich is created.

The system is very much not a puzzle. If it was a puzzle we'd have knowledge that would test our intelligence, like certain mods having priorities over others depending which 3 are present in the kill code. Right now we are at the hands of fate, the luck of the draw, the six eyed snake and so on.

Puzzles are most of the time made to either test or force to interact with certain types of intelligence thats true.

The lich thingy with the try 3 parazon in a certain order is quite an interesting take on what a "Puzzle" is ( or is it) because as we know most puzzle are found by looking and trying different things with it i'm pretty sure you agree with me on that. Btw if you like puzzle check Chris Ramsay out he is amazing ^.^ 

So i get why some tenno are saying its a puzzle but the question is quite interesting non the less are enigma puzzle ? 

I'm gonna have to take a look closer on that topic.

Edited April 21, 2020 by trunks013