Unpopular Warframe opinions thread?

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

Inaros' ability damage sucks and his healing needs to not be reduced by Armor.

Apparently trying to buff Inaros at all is a cardinal sin.

[Teridax68]

• I think we should get rid of Energy, as it's a pointless constraint at this stage, and players in general like to not have their casting restricted.
• We probably have one weapon and ability slot too many, given that we have no ammo constraints and usually at least one dead/fluff ability per warframe kit.
• Operators are a great plot and lore element, but have no real gameplay function of their own.
• Literally the entire Gear wheel could be removed and its components cleaned up or reimplemented in various ways to make the game less clunky.
• Generally, I'd say the game could be a lot better overall if it streamlined a lot of the cruft that has accumulated over the years, with entire systems and mechanics making only a small, and sometimes outright negative net contribution to the game.

[TARINunit9]

13 minutes ago, xHeretic said:

No, Mr Chimes  it's a classic memory game with cards: https://www.memory-improvement-tips.com/free-online-memory-games.html

Contrasting things is not the same as saying "this is good / this is bad" without taking the context into account and acting like it doesn't matter. It's like comapring rock-paper-sccisors with a puzzle based on "how much fun" you got on each one (wich basically is: "That is correct. That was my point. They aren't comparable, they're contrasting. Because Mr. Chimes is fun while the old Liches were not fun"). Contrasting MECHANICS is a whole different thing and we could be arguing about shadow of mordor as a succesful "personal nemesis system" rather than a memorizing game.

I was worried we would be in a philosophical debate, because I don't agree with the philosophy "things that are fundamentally different, should not be compared in the few ways they are similar"

As for the Memory Game... I fail to see how that is any different from how Liches work. They really do seem like a nearly identical mechanic to me. Let's compare and contrast:

Spoiler

 

Mr. Chimes:

• Twelve cards are dealt. They may be flipped face-up, but their positions will never change beyond that; their positions are static after being dealt
• The player picks two cards to flip face up. This is a guess, because they are indistinguishable while face down.
• If they match, they remain flipped face-up. This reduces the remaining face down cards permanently, thus reducing the number of possible incorrect guesses (across the entire board) by several
• If they do not match, they flip face down again. This reduces the number of possible incorrect guesses by one

Liches:

• Three mods are picked, in a random order. This order is static after being dealt
• The player guesses the order. Success is checked from left to right, stopping immediately at the leftmost incorrect mod. This is a guess, because they are indistinguishable while unrevealed.
• If any mods are correct, they are highlighted in gold, thus reducing the number of possible incorrect guesses by several
• If any mods are incorrect, they are highlighted in red. This reduces the number of possible incorrect guesses by one

 

That is why I feel fundamental puzzle mechanics are comparable. That is why I feel we are having this conversation at all. I am interested in hearing if you agree.

The contrast part of compare/contrast comes with A) how you earn the right to guess within gameplay, and B) the punishment for an incorrect guess

Both games use a very similar A: "fight the boss to earn a guess." It's how they differ in B that I feel Liches aren't as fun as Mr. Chimes, and were even less fun in the past

Against Mr. Chimes, there is no punishment for an incorrect guess, and you are allowed unlimited incorrect guesses until you get a correct guess. Against Liches, you only earn one guess, even if it's incorrect. This sort of works for current Liches -- chiefly because there are far fewer possible incorrect guesses, reducing their number by one is more significant.

However, in the past your punishment was also to immediately lose a life. Lives in video games are a well-known, well-understood, and very traditional mechanic. Players have expectations when it comes to lives, and when players aren't feeling their expectations met the results can be very frustrating: in general etiquette, players only feel it's fair to lose lives when they fail at a skill-based challenge, such as combat, platforming, fleeing from obstacles, and other such mechanics. As such, these lives are considered retries for these specific mechanics

(this should have been included earlier in the thesis)

Players use lives because it's unreasonable, in life and in video games, to expect perfect skill on the first try. Lives work both as a fallback, and a measure of learning and correct play. The more lives you have, the better you are at the game, but any number greater than zero is still acceptable

Losing a life to a Lich on an incorrect guess goes against player expectations, and not for the better. The player loses part of their safety net for a completely different part of the game, and takes a hit to their "grade" of how well they are playing the game.

Now, I can hear the rebuttal already: Warframe has enough lives for you. The hit to your "grade" is so tiny that there's no real harm. And the old expression goes "no harm, no foul" so why are you so passionate about the foul?

Simply put, I don't agree with "no harm, no foul". There are many places it shouldn't apply -- parents disciplining their children is a good example, if the child was about to do something wrong but was stopped before damage could be done, they should still be given the impression to never try it again. And I feel game design is in the same boat: better to fix the flaw, than shrug it off as being harmless

So that there is my mechanical and philosophical overview as to why Old Liches weren't good design

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

11 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

I was worried we would be in a philosophical debate, because I don't agree with the philosophy "things that are fundamentally different, should not be compared in the few ways they are similar"

As for the Memory Game... I fail to see how that is any different from how Liches work. They really do seem like a nearly identical mechanic to me. Let's compare and contrast:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Mr. Chimes:

• Twelve cards are dealt. They may be flipped face-up, but their positions will never change beyond that; their positions are static after being dealt
• The player picks two cards to flip face up. This is a guess, because they are indistinguishable while face down.
• If they match, they remain flipped face-up. This reduces the remaining face down cards permanently, thus reducing the number of possible incorrect guesses (across the entire board) by several
• If they do not match, they flip face down again. This reduces the number of possible incorrect guesses by one

Liches:

• Three mods are picked, in a random order. This order is static after being dealt
• The player guesses the order. Success is checked from left to right, stopping immediately at the leftmost incorrect mod. This is a guess, because they are indistinguishable while unrevealed.
• If any mods are correct, they are highlighted in gold, thus reducing the number of possible incorrect guesses by several
• If any mods are incorrect, they are highlighted in red. This reduces the number of possible incorrect guesses by one

 

That is why I feel fundamental puzzle mechanics are comparable. That is why I feel we are having this conversation at all. I am interested in hearing if you agree.

The contrast part of compare/contrast comes with A) how you earn the right to guess within gameplay, and B) the punishment for an incorrect guess

Both games use a very similar A: "fight the boss to earn a guess." It's how they differ in B that I feel Liches aren't as fun as Mr. Chimes, and were even less fun in the past

Against Mr. Chimes, there is no punishment for an incorrect guess, and you are allowed unlimited incorrect guesses until you get a correct guess. Against Liches, you only earn one guess, even if it's incorrect. This sort of works for current Liches -- chiefly because there are far fewer possible incorrect guesses, reducing their number by one is more significant.

However, in the past your punishment was also to immediately lose a life. Lives in video games are a well-known, well-understood, and very traditional mechanic. Players have expectations when it comes to lives, and when players aren't feeling their expectations met the results can be very frustrating: in general etiquette, players only feel it's fair to lose lives when they fail at a skill-based challenge, such as combat, platforming, fleeing from obstacles, and other such mechanics. As such, these lives are considered retries for these specific mechanics

(this should have been included earlier in the thesis)

Players use lives because it's unreasonable, in life and in video games, to expect perfect skill on the first try. Lives work both as a fallback, and a measure of learning and correct play. The more lives you have, the better you are at the game, but any number greater than zero is still acceptable

Losing a life to a Lich on an incorrect guess goes against player expectations, and not for the better. The player loses part of their safety net for a completely different part of the game, and takes a hit to their "grade" of how well they are playing the game.

Now, I can hear the rebuttal already: Warframe has enough lives for you. The hit to your "grade" is so tiny that there's no real harm. And the old expression goes "no harm, no foul" so why are you so passionate about the foul?

Simply put, I don't agree with "no harm, no foul". There are many places it shouldn't apply -- parents disciplining their children is a good example, if the child was about to do something wrong but was stopped before damage could be done, they should still be given the impression to never try it again. And I feel game design is in the same boat: better to fix the flaw, than shrug it off as being harmless

So that there is my mechanical and philosophical overview as to why Old Liches weren't good design

I just don't understand why you have to go into so much detail about this.

How exactly are you supposed to solve a puzzle if you can't even see all of the pieces? 

[TARINunit9]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)Graysmog said:

I just don't understand why you have to go into so much detail about this.

How exactly are you supposed to solve a puzzle if you can't even see all of the pieces? 

Let's just say... I agree with you philosophically, but I also understand why people like SpicyDinosaur are giving you grief over the word "puzzle" in this semi-metaphor

[Oreades]

37 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

it's pointless to reach out and try to understand the other side of an argument when those on that side are being deliberately obtuse and contrarian

Friendo it is not a puzzle it is a guessing game. 

Just as if I was to ask you to list my favorite colors from the visible spectrum in order of preference. If I narrow that down to naming my three favorite colors in order of preference from a list of my three favorite colors, still a guessing game not a puzzle. Even if you combine them, say after X wrong guesses I tell you one of my favorite colors. You are able to narrow the scope of your guessing but it has not become a puzzle. 

You are just blindly plugging along until you randomly guess the first one correctly and then moving on sequentially to the next guess in the list. The best you can do is narrow the possible scope of your guesses and while logical that does not a puzzle make because it is never more than best guess. You might as well be flipping a coin or picking which shell has the ball under it. 

Actually the shell game is a pretty fair simplified analog for this, because there is one correct choice (assuming dealer isn't crooked) and if the dealer let you keep guessing without reshuffling the shells, that's pretty much what the Lich Requiums are.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

58 minutes ago, (XB1)Graysmog said:

Inaros' ability damage sucks and his healing needs to not be reduced by Armor.

Apparently trying to buff Inaros at all is a cardinal sin.

Breaking news: Actual tanks in videogames have decreased dps capacity in favor of defensive stats.

Crazy, never would have known.

[SpicyDinosaur]

2 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Friendo it is not a puzzle it is a guessing game. 

Just as if I was to ask you to list my favorite colors from the visible spectrum in order of preference. If I narrow that down to naming my three favorite colors in order of preference from a list of my three favorite colors, still a guessing game not a puzzle. Even if you combine them, say after X wrong guesses I tell you one of my favorite colors. You are able to narrow the scope of your guessing but it has not become a puzzle. 

You are just blindly plugging along until you randomly guess the first one correctly and then moving on sequentially to the next guess in the list. The best you can do is narrow the possible scope of your guesses and while logical that does not a puzzle make because it is never more than best guess. You might as well be flipping a coin or picking which shell has the ball under it. 

Actually the shell game is a pretty fair simplified analog for this, because there is one correct choice (assuming dealer isn't crooked) and if the dealer let you keep guessing without reshuffling the shells, that's pretty much what the Lich Requiums are.

it's just a pointless argument of semantics at this point. If you call it a puzzle, your point is lost, so you just argue over trivial details and insist it's the only way to perceive the issue.

 

Again,  

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Breaking news: Actual tanks in videogames have decreased dps capacity in favor of defensive stats.

Crazy, never would have known.

Yet those are other games, this is Warframe. 

Where tanks like Rhino, Chroma, Atlas, Nidus, Hildryn and lord knows how many tanky Warframes exist that can all deal incredible amounts of damage, or buff damage in some form. Nidus and Hildryn are also far more comparable to Inaros, as they have massive EHP pools and can very easily heal themselves.

Inaros also has a raw damage ability, Sandstorm. It even has an Augment meant to buff its damage through your Melee Mods, and yet it does absolutely nothing.

So, again, I don't see why Inaros has to get the short end of the stick here.

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Quarky said:

OOF. Now that's an unpopular opinion 😂

I didn't think it was too bad, but there are soo much more things to do in WF now than waste time in lunaro. 

It was fun to play when it first came out. I've had a few exciting matches. 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Hypernaut1

[vanaukas]

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

I was worried we would be in a philosophical debate, because I don't agree with the philosophy "things that are fundamentally different, should not be compared in the few ways they are similar"

As for the Memory Game... I fail to see how that is any different from how Liches work. They really do seem like a nearly identical mechanic to me. Let's compare and contrast:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Mr. Chimes:

• Twelve cards are dealt. They may be flipped face-up, but their positions will never change beyond that; their positions are static after being dealt
• The player picks two cards to flip face up. This is a guess, because they are indistinguishable while face down.
• If they match, they remain flipped face-up. This reduces the remaining face down cards permanently, thus reducing the number of possible incorrect guesses (across the entire board) by several
• If they do not match, they flip face down again. This reduces the number of possible incorrect guesses by one

Liches:

• Three mods are picked, in a random order. This order is static after being dealt
• The player guesses the order. Success is checked from left to right, stopping immediately at the leftmost incorrect mod. This is a guess, because they are indistinguishable while unrevealed.
• If any mods are correct, they are highlighted in gold, thus reducing the number of possible incorrect guesses by several
• If any mods are incorrect, they are highlighted in red. This reduces the number of possible incorrect guesses by one

 

That is why I feel fundamental puzzle mechanics are comparable. That is why I feel we are having this conversation at all. I am interested in hearing if you agree.

The contrast part of compare/contrast comes with A) how you earn the right to guess within gameplay, and B) the punishment for an incorrect guess

Both games use a very similar A: "fight the boss to earn a guess." It's how they differ in B that I feel Liches aren't as fun as Mr. Chimes, and were even less fun in the past

Against Mr. Chimes, there is no punishment for an incorrect guess, and you are allowed unlimited incorrect guesses until you get a correct guess. Against Liches, you only earn one guess, even if it's incorrect. This sort of works for current Liches -- chiefly because there are far fewer possible incorrect guesses, reducing their number by one is more significant.

However, in the past your punishment was also to immediately lose a life. Lives in video games are a well-known, well-understood, and very traditional mechanic. Players have expectations when it comes to lives, and when players aren't feeling their expectations met the results can be very frustrating: in general etiquette, players only feel it's fair to lose lives when they fail at a skill-based challenge, such as combat, platforming, fleeing from obstacles, and other such mechanics. As such, these lives are considered retries for these specific mechanics

(this should have been included earlier in the thesis)

Players use lives because it's unreasonable, in life and in video games, to expect perfect skill on the first try. Lives work both as a fallback, and a measure of learning and correct play. The more lives you have, the better you are at the game, but any number greater than zero is still acceptable

Losing a life to a Lich on an incorrect guess goes against player expectations, and not for the better. The player loses part of their safety net for a completely different part of the game, and takes a hit to their "grade" of how well they are playing the game.

Now, I can hear the rebuttal already: Warframe has enough lives for you. The hit to your "grade" is so tiny that there's no real harm. And the old expression goes "no harm, no foul" so why are you so passionate about the foul?

Simply put, I don't agree with "no harm, no foul". There are many places it shouldn't apply -- parents disciplining their children is a good example, if the child was about to do something wrong but was stopped before damage could be done, they should still be given the impression to never try it again. And I feel game design is in the same boat: better to fix the flaw, than shrug it off as being harmless

So that there is my mechanical and philosophical overview as to why Old Liches weren't good design

I wasn't thinking in that way, but if you present it like that I cannot disagree at all with the mechanics being pretty similar, but the execution is so vastly different that I felt it cannot be compared on the basis on how much fun you are getting (subjective thing vs objective thing. I failed to see the objective part and you sumarize it pretty well, thank you) 

If the devs would have better explained that thing about loosing a life in game rather on just brief commentaries on devstreams (and a bad explained mechanic on the patch notes), it would be handled better by the playerbase? I think not, mostly for the part about "loosing power" on the game, wich is a very sensitive topic on the community. See how a large pat of the community hate the operator because "they are teens, act like teens and ruin my immersion, I want to be a space ninja! They have no place in here!" (and I really wish I was making this up). See how the community behave when a mod or a riven gets a slight nerf. See how people behave with amalgam serration and seration, prefering serration because it does 5% more damage rather than gain 30% more speed movement. People, for some reason, are hungry for power in this game and anything who burst that illusion bubble recieves a backlash, and liches weren't the exeption. Now we have the liches behaving exactly like before but with 1 animation being replaced by a laugh and your retry intact. So, it was a bad mechanic? Was bad design? I think it was more "this was bad implemented" as many things in the game wich the community has to explain to new players (I'm thinking about the existence of the wiki and how important is for us because msot of the time the game fails to tell you something). I would agree on "a bad ui design" rather than the game itself. 

I also have to point out your behaviour and how you are managing this conversation, thank you for cool off and having this great chitchat, I've been enjoy it a lot because I've learned something new thanks to you.

[TARINunit9]

1 minute ago, xHeretic said:

I also have to point out your behaviour and how you are managing this conversation, thank you for cool off and having this great chitchat, I've been enjoy it a lot because I've learned something new thanks to you.

Thank you for being part of the conversation. And now for my turn:

4 minutes ago, xHeretic said:

If the devs would have better explained that thing about loosing a life in game rather on just brief commentaries on devstreams (and a bad explained mechanic on the patch notes), it would be handled better by the playerbase? I think not, mostly for the part about "loosing power" on the game, wich is a very sensitive topic on the community. See how a large pat of the community hate the operator because "they are teens, act like teens and ruin my immersion, I want to be a space ninja! They have no place in here!" (and I really wish I was making this up). See how the community behave when a mod or a riven gets a slight nerf. See how people behave with amalgam serration and seration, prefering serration because it does 5% more damage rather than gain 30% more speed movement. People, for some reason, are hungry for power in this game and anything who burst that illusion bubble recieves a backlash, and liches weren't the exeption. Now we have the liches behaving exactly like before but with 1 animation being replaced by a laugh and your retry intact. So, it was a bad mechanic? Was bad design? I think it was more "this was bad implemented" as many things in the game wich the community has to explain to new players (I'm thinking about the existence of the wiki and how important is for us because msot of the time the game fails to tell you something). I would agree on "a bad ui design" rather than the game itself. 

Thank you for sharing your perspective. I have to admit, when the community constantly makes thread after thread about Rivens the day a disposition change drops -- with a week of advance no less -- I can't disagree with your opinion

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

12 minutes ago, xHeretic said:

I wasn't thinking in that way, but if you present it like that I cannot disagree at all with the mechanics being pretty similar, but the execution is so vastly different that I felt it cannot be compared on the basis on how much fun you are getting (subjective thing vs objective thing. I failed to see the objective part and you sumarize it pretty well, thank you) 

If the devs would have better explained that thing about loosing a life in game rather on just brief commentaries on devstreams (and a bad explained mechanic on the patch notes), it would be handled better by the playerbase? I think not, mostly for the part about "loosing power" on the game, wich is a very sensitive topic on the community. See how a large pat of the community hate the operator because "they are teens, act like teens and ruin my immersion, I want to be a space ninja! They have no place in here!" (and I really wish I was making this up). See how the community behave when a mod or a riven gets a slight nerf. See how people behave with amalgam serration and seration, prefering serration because it does 5% more damage rather than gain 30% more speed movement. People, for some reason, are hungry for power in this game and anything who burst that illusion bubble recieves a backlash, and liches weren't the exeption. Now we have the liches behaving exactly like before but with 1 animation being replaced by a laugh and your retry intact. So, it was a bad mechanic? Was bad design? I think it was more "this was bad implemented" as many things in the game wich the community has to explain to new players (I'm thinking about the existence of the wiki and how important is for us because msot of the time the game fails to tell you something). I would agree on "a bad ui design" rather than the game itself. 

I also have to point out your behaviour and how you are managing this conversation, thank you for cool off and having this great chitchat, I've been enjoy it a lot because I've learned something new thanks to you.

That's very true, DE hardly ever explains anything about the game, or the changes that have occurred since something's initial reveal. Most is just left up for you to discover, and it does make sense that some people would be a little perturbed hearing that Liches were a "kill me and I just keep coming back" system when in fact it was a slot machine.

First impressions are far more important than most realize.

Edited April 21, 2020 by (XB1)Graysmog

[Felsagger]

There are incredibly good arguments on those previous posts. 

1. The tenno should act like a tenno not like a clueless teen saying oxymorons. 

2. The war frames had an aura of seriousness. When the tenno came in, that aura was turned into a snarky atmosphere. 

3. If we are going to add the tenno, at least make them be part of the lore by adding better story telling and witty conversations. There is nothing wrong having a capable tenno. However the immersion breaks when the tenno behaves like a teen in a BATTLE!!!. 

Example: Look at God of War IV. That is perfect integration. 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Felsagger

[vanaukas]

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

There are incredibly good arguments on those previous posts. 

1. The tenno should act like a tenno not like a clueless teen saying oxymorons. 

2. The war frames had an aura of seriousness. When the tenno came in, that aura was turned into a snarky atmosphere. 

3. If we are going to add the tenno, at least make them be part of the lore by adding better story telling and witty conversations. There is nothing wrong having a capable tenno. However the immersion breaks when the tenno behaves like a teen in a BATTLE!!!. 

Example: Look at God of War IV. That is perfect integration. 

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Operator/Quotes

Can you quote the oxymorons?

[Felsagger]

Iflynn provide an amazing review about the current state of warframe. It was complete, sincere and very respectufl. 

 

4 minutes ago, xHeretic said:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Operator/Quotes

Can you quote the oxymorons?

• The Grineer prey on the weak, but we prey on the Grineer.
• You'd think they'd clone something a little less... ugly?
• The Grineer have no honor. 
• Ballistics and archaic weapons, crude and dangerous, just like the Grineer.
• The Grineer used to be builders, now all they make is war.
• The Grineer deteriorate over time... is that what makes them violent?
• If we could avoid alerting them, this may be easier

This alone is cringe worthy material. 

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Ugh, unpopular? Got a few.

Enemy TTK needs to increase a lot to dig combat out of the spam hole.

Univac was a mistake.

I don't want Operators to physically grow up.

Real PvE endgame doesn't revolve around gear grind

I want the Lotus to live.

[vanaukas]

12 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Iflynn provide an amazing review about the current state of warframe. It was complete, sincere and very respectufl. 

 

Didn't he quit warframe? Why he try to still milk on the game? Disgusting.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

I

• The Grineer prey on the weak, but we prey on the Grineer.
• You'd think they'd clone something a little less... ugly?
• The Grineer have no honor. 
• Ballistics and archaic weapons, crude and dangerous, just like the Grineer.
• The Grineer used to be builders, now all they make is war.
• The Grineer deteriorate over time... is that what makes them violent?
• If we could avoid alerting them, this may be easier

This alone is cringe worthy material. 

Cringe =/= Oxymoron

Con you quote the oxymoron? On the wiki page it's almost all the dialogue.

[Sharkgoblin]

22 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

RAILJACK IS FUN

When?

[Felsagger]

23 minutes ago, xHeretic said:

Didn't he quit warframe? Why he try to still milk on the game? Disgusting.

Yes, your opinion....:3
 

He has good points. Sorry but his points makes a lot of sense. I saw that video today. 

 

23 minutes ago, xHeretic said:

Cringe =/= Oxymoron

 

Wrong choice of words. I used Oxymoron the wrong way. I forgot to use retarded lines. It fits better and explain why they are so cringy. 

[Sharkgoblin]

Kuva Seer is the best kuva weapon:

1) its a seer but bigger

2) hybrid gun that can have radiation, corrosive, viral and heat 

3) big zoom

4) has aoe but its not too much

5) enemies fly when killed by it

6) its a seer but bigger

 

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

 

• The Grineer prey on the weak, but we prey on the Grineer.
• You'd think they'd clone something a little less... ugly?
• The Grineer have no honor. 
• Ballistics and archaic weapons, crude and dangerous, just like the Grineer.
• The Grineer used to be builders, now all they make is war.
• The Grineer deteriorate over time... is that what makes them violent?
• If we could avoid alerting them, this may be easier

This alone is cringe worthy material. 

None of these are oxymorons.

Now, some of them are hypocritical and others are... well, not good, but not Oxymorons - an Oxymoron is a self-contradicting statement. I picked up the word from Sonic: "Chaos Control" is an Oxymoron. As would be something like "A funny tragedy" or "Full of nothing".

31 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

I forgot to use retarded lines. It fits better and explain why they are so cringy. 

Saying that something is stupid isn't itself an explanation.

So, going through some of these:

"The Grineer prey on the weak, but we prey on the Grineer" alone, this is at worst a little pretentious, but when combined with "The Grineer have no honour", it presents the question of why? Is it because they attack those weaker than themselves? But, by admission that is what the Tenno do, because they prey on the Grineer. Which is it? 

The "Ballistics and Archaic Weapons" one is one I've always found funny, since I almost always get it when wielding either a Grineer weapon or a sword. Ah yes, the height of technology, sharp stick.

 

And, whilst this isn't one on the list, one that has always bothered me is "These Corpus remind me of the Orokin. Selfish and Greedy". It irritates me because it's actually a half-decent line. It notes the Operator's history, the Orokin's traits and compares them to the modern day, and the characterisation of the Operator since they disapprove. But the wording: "THESE" Corpus. It's said as if it's the first time the Operators are interacting with the Corpus, which it isn't. The Operator, by this point, has interacted with the Corpus for at least several weeks, more since the line still crops up hundreds of hours after you unlock the Operator, they directly works with at least one (Darvo) and numerous more in the form of the Solaris. They are intimately familiar with the Corpus. The line should be "The Corpus remind me of the Orokin". It's rookie mistakes like that which cause the dialogue to be off (not helping is the voice acting. They got better with time, but these lines were all recorded around the Second Dream and it shows). Which is weird, because DE does have some honest-to-god good writers, so whoever wrote the Operator script was REALLY having an off-day.

[Felsagger]

1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

None of these are oxymorons.

Now, some of them are hypocritical and others are... well, not good, but not Oxymorons - an Oxymoron is a self-contradicting statement. I picked up the word from Sonic: "Chaos Control" is an Oxymoron. As would be something like "A funny tragedy" or "Full of nothing".

This happens when you do not read the board. I clarified that on a previous post. 

1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

Saying that something is stupid isn't itself an explanation.

So, going through some of these:

"The Grineer prey on the weak, but we prey on the Grineer" alone, this is at worst a little pretentious, but when combined with "The Grineer have no honour", it presents the question of why? Is it because they attack those weaker than themselves? But, by admission that is what the Tenno do, because they prey on the Grineer. Which is it? 

The "Ballistics and Archaic Weapons" one is one I've always found funny, since I almost always get it when wielding either a Grineer weapon or a sword. Ah yes, the height of technology, sharp stick.

Stupidity doesn't need any explanation. It is just that, stupidity. What they say is literally explicit to anyone who plays the game. 

Instead of saying stupidity why not the Tenno talk becomes useful just for once other than those lines? Tennos can advice of a potential enemy that enters the level or advice you when a rocket or napalm troop is near. Instead of saying crap that is useless for the player the Tenno can become some sort of radar or gives you valuable information on the battlefield when the enemy changes behavior. 

Sometimes I want to throw the stupid Tenno kid into space or sell him as pottery and decoration for the corpus. Tenno can become a tag team similar to what we had with Excalibur Umbra. That content was a good game changer. Tenno needs a better personality or at least say some lines when we pay like those in Overwatch. 

[Loza03]

2 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

This happens when you do not read the board. I clarified that on a previous post. 

You said you used it wrong, yes, but not why.

2 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Stupidity doesn't need any explanation. It is just that, stupidity. What they say is literally explicit to anyone who plays the game. 

 

4 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Tenno needs a better personality or at least say some lines when we pay like those in Overwatch. 

The vast majority of lines in Overwatch are just as explicit and banal. It's pure characterisation - same as Warframe's. There just happens to be a lot more of it and, well... budgets. I mean, go look at the Overwatch Moon base dialogue. Half of them say something to the effect of "nice view".

Even TF2 which, in my opinion, has much better dialogue has the same problem. Half of Engies lines are to the effect of "Dispenser goin", "Plant yerself on that darn point, mister" or "SPAHS SAPPIN MAH SENTRY".

Most of the memorable lines are from comparatively rarer dialogue moments, and for the Operator, that comes with the quests. Again, there is the unfortunate reality of budget - most of the Operators are voiced by professionals. 

7 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Instead of saying stupidity why not the Tenno talk becomes useful just for once other than those lines? Tennos can advice of a potential enemy that enters the level or advice you when a rocket or napalm troop is near. Instead of saying crap that is useless for the player the Tenno can become some sort of radar or gives you valuable information on the battlefield when the enemy changes behavior. 

That's what Cy does, and a lot of people find him annoying.

[Felsagger]

34 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

You said you used it wrong, yes, but not why.

Fine, you want to get technical in a forum? Why not. 

Their lines doesn't give any insight or add depth to the story. They are recurrent and sometimes are just noise filler. Tennos should have a personality or something that makes them feel alive. Providing empty lines on what they are seeing makes them look like clueless pretentious teens. 

Look for example the lines seen in The Last of us. These are good writers that digs into the character, their characters are not incidental. 

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The vast majority of lines in Overwatch are just as explicit and banal. It's pure characterisation - same as Warframe's. There just happens to be a lot more of it and, well... budgets. I mean, go look at the Overwatch Moon base dialogue. Half of them say something to the effect of "nice view".

You can program your phrases. There are some random interaction between characters but they try to say a fragment of the story. However my discussion is on how useful these lines could be. The writers are just being lazy or inane to say the least. Writers should put more effort and acting on the Tenno. They feel like dolls a

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Most of the memorable lines are from comparatively rarer dialogue moments, and for the Operator, that comes with the quests. Again, there is the unfortunate reality of budget - most of the Operators are voiced by professionals. 

Professionals? 

HAHAHAHAHAHA.....

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That's what Cy does, and a lot of people find him annoying.

Yes Cy is a good start. I don't find him annoying. I find him precise. Almost all the game dialogue should feel similar in combat. 

 

DE should add depth on this. The game deserves much more. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Felsagger