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[DE]Rebecca

Dev Workshop: Railjack Revisited Information

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I like all of this a lot so far.  I think melee needs a lot more help than that to be viable though, and am worried the reactor capacity situation will get rough with only one kind of each avionic now.  Can't wait to get my hands on valence transfer and try out all the rest of those ability and stat changes, and cautiously optimistic this'll all work out well for the game mode.

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21 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • The ‘retired’ Integrated Avionics will be removed from players inventory via a script.
  • The remaining Integrated Avionic for each Type will take on the values of the previously highest valued Avionic of it’s Type.

Am I right in thinking that the first point applies to Avionics that will no longer exist at all while the second applies to any that are remaining e.g. if bulkhead is staying then all variants of bulkhead will become the same and it wont matter which ones we had but if bulkhead was leaving they'd all be gone?

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Most of these changes are... awful. I am going to lose mods if they are from the wrong house? Everything is made drastically easier? Can't we just have a challenge on some part of the game?

This game is for casuals now. I gave up requesting challenge to DE a long time ago. If you want challenge might as well play another game.

Edited by DrivaMain
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28 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Lowered Boost Speed by 75% 

Wow this sounds like an absolutely awful change.

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The boost nerfs seem excessive for a game mode that DE was wanting to make feel more arcade like. Instead of being able to throw your railjack around with quick maneuvers you just have to trudge around with a slighly faster base speed. As doubling the already slow base speed isn't going to make up for gutting boost. The avionics changes also feel like a way to reduce the total amount of mods we can run on the ship as several of the tier 2 avionics approach t1 numbers while costing significantly less.

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This all makes me so, so happy to see. Very exited to see the full patch list now!

(And thank the heavens for the Avionic fix. Muddling around with all those family types really made things confusing...)

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I very much dislike the change to Particle Ram requiring forward velocity. When I'm piloting in a fight I tend to move in every direction, not just forward, and this would be a severe nerf to my playstyle.

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27 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • Each Integrated Avionic Type will now only exist with a single Manufacturer rather than three Manufacturer flavors.
  • The ‘retired’ Integrated Avionics will be removed from players inventory via a script.
  • The remaining Integrated Avionic for each Type will take on the values of the previously highest valued Avionic of it’s Type.

I'm kinda confused on this one.

Does this means every avionic but the best ones will be removed or that the most common ones will be made the base and the rest will be removed?

Because if I have two out of three of one avionic and that one I'm missing will be the one kept, that means I will have to go farm for it. I think you guys said something about Avionic economy changes, but I really hope I dont have to go after these 0.1% drop rate stuff.

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18 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Changing the pacing and general feel of all Railjack Piloting and movement to be less reliant on the optimal strategy of “Single strafe Boost then Repeat”: 

  • Doubled the Railjack’s base Speed. 
  • Lowered Boost Speed by 75% 
  • Increased the Boost Speed cost of dodge. 
  • Increased Boost Drain (8 - 15)

 

Please be careful with these changes.

I understand that on paper they don't look bad perse, but currently maneuvering the Railjack is something that feels really great with the right intrinsics.

Increasing the cost and drain of the maneuvers, means using them less, and they are quite fun to use.

21 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • Made each RJ Hazard type more harmful to the ship.
  • Increased the amount of Omni Revolite required to remove hazard events, but increased the XP gained.

Any details about this that we could use to give better feedback?

Currently, a solo player, as long as they are able to control the battle field, can manage critical breaches by themselves without having to craft revolite.

Increasing the damage and cost of repair may introduce a bit more micro management, if I'm reading this right.

26 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Increased the number of fighters in all alert stages.

What's an alert stage? Does this means larger spawns?

29 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Vortex is now attached to the front of your Railjack

Not sure if I understand what this implies and how ( and if ) if changes how we currently use Munitions Vortex. 

Regarding all the avionics in general, it would be great if you guys could consider ways to allow scaling damage so that each avionic doesn't become irrelevant at later stages.

For example, Seeker Voley is pretty much irrelevant past Saturn, will Munitions Vortex be irrelevant when in the future we get new Railjack proximas or new missions with increased difficulty?

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People ask for changes to make Railjack more fun, the developers change it up for us, and then people complain that Railjack is no longer challenging and that no sense of challenge can be found in the game at all.

First of all, you complain all the time and wonder why nothing gets done.

Secondly, if you read the first three sentences of this post, you would know that the patch notes listed aren't final.

Third, Warframe isn't/is no longer(?) a game that's meant to be challenging. Let people enjoy their arcade-like gameplay, Warframes were literally designed to make you feel like a god shooting at lesser beings like clones, zombies, robots, and merchant cult members. 

Aside from the few nerfs, I don't see much of a problem with any of the changes listed, even if they aren't final.

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30 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tripled values of Titanium and Asterite resource drops

Does this apply to mission rewards too?

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Could we please make bonuses from parts part of the base stat that mods boost? This has been the single largest issue with avionics modding, and doesn't look to be addressed anywhere.

The change to single avionics is simpler, but I'm not at all sure it's better at first glance. Being stuck with the highest value versions of some of them mean we're losing the "best" choice from an efficiency point of view in a lot of cases.

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Void Hole

Decreased duration from 25 to 12 secs

how about no? that's a top tier mod, it should be strong. especially with how awful it is to find + how awful it is to use railjack, period.

41 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Doubled the Railjack’s innate loot-pickup (Vacuum) Range.

god damnit. could we just be done with it and give railjack infinite vacuum? the joke ran it's course. we get it, you are against vacuum as a whole and would somehow like to see it disappear for no good reasons, but in railjack, people don't have the time to go play Catch a Mouse with the ressources. Do you think that Railjack should be space simulator, or space shooting?

41 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Doubled Affinity-to-Intrinsic Point conversion. You will now gain Intrinsics 2x faster. 

could we also have the ability to gain more intrisic points unlocked so we can prepare for commander skill? "that" one that is still not present. after so much time.

Also, can we have a mod so that Revolite isn't a thing anymore? we just get to repair the hazards and that's it? the problem with this is still here. you can fail a railjack mission due to PURE RNG. that isn't fair in any kind of way. at all.

 

still no Ordnance fix to make it actually one shot crewships? second, the ordnance canon should be directly linked to pilot seat. in case you didn't noticed, almost no one uses it, because it's so inconvenient. make it directly linked to pilot role and able to fire it from pilot seat.

ho, and  important thing to do immediately, in correlation to the patch. for every avionic that was deleted from players inventory, converting them into DIRAC, too.

Edited by mikakor
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45 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Enemies now spawn much closer to the Railjack vs. 1000+ km away. 

I like or am at least cautiously optimistic about most the changes listed, but this one concerns me a little.  One of my disappointments with Railjack is that the mode can be played reasonably effectively as a turret.  Obviously I'm just reading notes and not playing it, but I worry that this will just further leave us without incentive to actually move around the maps until everything is dead.  I can see how it might make the pacing of the fights a little quicker, and with the damage tuning it hopefully won't be overwhelming.  Maybe the thing I'm worried about will become a non-issue when more mission types are added down the line.  I certainly hope so.  I definitely support the idea of improving the foundation before expanding.

I also share the common sentiment of confusion around the avionic simplification.  I like the idea of less clutter in general, but I'm a little concerned about what exactly I'm going to lose, if anything, and how heavily I'll feel the loss.

Also, today I learned that these forums have a dark theme.  A pleasant bonus.

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44 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

oubled the Railjack’s innate loot-pickup (Vacuum) Range.

500 metres of Vacuum? Ok, I'm down. Given the extreme 3D situation Railjack's in, Vacuum goes from a convenience to an outright necessity

44 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Changing the pacing and general feel of all Railjack Piloting and movement to be less reliant on the optimal strategy of “Single strafe Boost then Repeat”: 

  • Doubled the Railjack’s base Speed. 
  • Lowered Boost Speed by 75% 
  • Increased the Boost Speed cost of dodge. 
  • Increased Boost Drain (8 - 15)

 

I'm going to reserve judgement for this one until I get my hands on it. Put a lot of work into my ship's speed.

46 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Made scale a factor in damage reduction and bonuses. This means Archwings and their weapons will do more damage to ships, while also taking less damage from them.

Aight, sounds good. Maybe Archwings will be balanced now? I assume Railjacks will still be substantially more powerful though, if a bit less agile and adaptable.

47 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Halved the Health and Armour of all Grineer Fighters.

Again, going to reserve judgement. I felt they were pretty alright where they were, and we're very strong right now. Then again, if we go up against higher level fighters down the line?

But, yeah, this is probably the one I'm most concerned about.

48 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • Randomized the amount of Fighters required to be killed during the Extermination portion of the Skirmish mission so it’s not always the same. 

Sweet! Hopefully including some real big fights too!

49 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • Reduced the Health of all on-foot Grineer Railjack enemies by half.
  • Removed scaled damage controllers from all on-foot Grineer Railjack enemies.

THANK you.

Gokstad Officers especially had waaaaaaaaaaaay too much health, more than the Eidolons.

I mean they're still going to have a LOT, but still.

50 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • Added Caps for the amount of simultaneous Railjack Hazards (Fire, Electric, and Breaches). Your Railjack can only have 1 of each Hazard active at a time.
  • Drastically decreased the frequency of RJ Hazard types.
  • Made each RJ Hazard type more harmful to the ship.
  • Increased the amount of Omni Revolite required to remove hazard events, but increased the XP gained.

I kind of like Engineering, but I acknowledge that it probably wasn't all that popular. Willing to take the hit at the end of the day.

51 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Increased the number of fighters in all alert stages.

Oh I LIKE this.

More Esplosions for everyone!

52 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • Longstanding issues with the usability of Archwing Melee has been fixed - it’s whacking day - let us know!. 
  • Archwing Melee Range mods now affects aim assist lock-on range.
  • Archwing Gun stats normalized - space combat now uses ground “Heavy Weapon” stats.
  • UI Lead indicator has been added to relevant Archwing Guns.

Sweet.

53 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

The Kuva Lich ‘Valence Transfer’ has been added for built Armaments and Components - players can now Transfer progress and stats to the new better parts, boosting them.

  • Requires Dirac to perform the operation
  • Combining matching tiers gives 10% boost in stats
  • Combining lower tier gives 5% boost in stats.
  • Two tiers removed (Mk3 with Mk1) is 2% boost

 

Cool!

55 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • Doubled Affinity-to-Intrinsic Point conversion. You will now gain Intrinsics 2x faster. 
  • Increased the earned Affinity on killing Elite Fighters and Outriders.

I was kind of thinking things were a little slow of late.

55 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

When it comes to Avionics changes, there’s an overarching goal: Simplify Avionic management. 

  • Each Integrated Avionic Type will now only exist with a single Manufacturer rather than three Manufacturer flavors.
  • The ‘retired’ Integrated Avionics will be removed from players inventory via a script.
  • The remaining Integrated Avionic for each Type will take on the values of the previously highest valued Avionic of it’s Type.
  • ALL Dirac used to upgrade Integrated Avionics will be refunded. This applies to both retired and remaining Avionics.
  • ALL remaining Integrated Avionics will have their Upgrades drained.

'Reserve' judgement is probably the wrong word, but I'm a little bit concerned about how this is going to play out, in particular the script.

Nevertheless, probably a good change at the end of the day, just to avoid confusion and bloat.

57 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Requires forward velocity to be active

 

58 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Decreased duration from 25 to 12 secs

Those are fair. 

 

 

All in all, a little concerned about some of this stuff, excited about other stuff, hope this irons stuff out going forward!

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58 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • Added Caps for the amount of simultaneous Railjack Hazards (Fire, Electric, and Breaches). Your Railjack can only have 1 of each Hazard active at a time.
  • Drastically decreased the frequency of RJ Hazard types.
  • Made each RJ Hazard type more harmful to the ship.
38 minutes ago, Poisonjack said:

Sound really lame on paper. If the Railjack's badly damaged, it should be damaged all over. This doesn't really make a lot of sense from a logical perspective, as a fire shouldn't

prevent other fires from occurring, neither from a gameplay perspective, since it trivializes repairing the ship.

Part of the fun of returning from an away mission in Scarlet Spear was finding out just how much the Railjack was damaged (the ship had clearly taken a beating but was still there - just). Multiple sites of damage at the same time added to that sense of "we scraped through that".

Not sure how the extra damage will play out - I think I'd much rather have multiple sites to fix than just one.

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vor 50 Minuten schrieb [DE]Rebecca:

General Changes:

  • Doubled the Railjack’s innate loot-pickup (Vacuum) Range.

 

Still not enough Vacuum in Open Space 😜 Right now you should get rid ot the stubborn vision that we wont like a univac. Sometimes you have to admit that you're wrong. You (or whoever is in charge onto this decision) should take a step behind is personell Ego to get some QoL back into the game.

vor 50 Minuten schrieb [DE]Rebecca:

Affinity and Intrinsic Gain Changes: 

  • Doubled Affinity-to-Intrinsic Point conversion. You will now gain Intrinsics 2x faster. 
  • Increased the earned Affinity on killing Elite Fighters and Outriders.

 

The Problem are that the missions themselves are boring as f***. No we're bored to death only half of the time. I mean what on Earth are the Developers smoking to address the Ivara Farm as an Exploit. Its an intended game mechanic. And unfortunately for many people it was the only reliable way to farm intrinsics with the stale Mission design. Why not giving 10 times the amount of exp and disable finisher exp in RJ. Even with a randomized "Kill x to proceed" it wont help that its still only one mission type. And for the initial impression it is ... still I'm just tired. I dont want to be rude here again.

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so, why is the prisma veritux getting less base damage boost than it's base counterpart? 

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My based-on-text feedback:
Original post (bits that stood out to me) is compacted into this Spoiler. Viewing this will add context to my reply if there is confusion.
I am currently waiting for Railjack to receive much needed variety, it's only current use is to help others farm resources to max their own out, or to do Scarlet Spear stuff.

Spoiler
26 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:


General Changes:

  • Changing the pacing and general feel of all Railjack Piloting and movement to be less reliant on the optimal strategy of “Single strafe Boost then Repeat”: 
    • Doubled the Railjack’s base Speed. 
    • Lowered Boost Speed by 75% 
    • Increased the Boost Speed cost of dodge. 
    • Increased Boost Drain (8 - 15)

 

Pacing Changes:

  • Added Caps for the amount of simultaneous Railjack Hazards (Fire, Electric, and Breaches). Your Railjack can only have 1 of each Hazard active at a time.
  • Made each RJ Hazard type more harmful to the ship.
  • Increased the amount of Omni Revolite required to remove hazard events, but increased the XP gained.
  • Enemies now spawn much closer to the Railjack vs. 1000+ km away. 

 

Avionics Changes: 

When it comes to Avionics changes, there’s an overarching goal: Simplify Avionic management. 

  • Each Integrated Avionic Type will now only exist with a single Manufacturer rather than three Manufacturer flavors.
  • The ‘retired’ Integrated Avionics will be removed from players inventory via a script.
  • The remaining Integrated Avionic for each Type will take on the values of the previously highest valued Avionic of it’s Type.
  • ALL Dirac used to upgrade Integrated Avionics will be refunded. This applies to both retired and remaining Avionics.
  • ALL remaining Integrated Avionics will have their Upgrades drained.


Battle Avionic Refresh:

Munitions Vortex

Vortex is now attached to the front of your Railjack

Increased Vortex radius from 30 to 60

Increased radius from 150 to 200

 

Particle Ram

Requires forward velocity to be active

 

General changes: 
While I like getting more base movement speed for my/a/the Railjack, the boost/strafing system being nerfed (more expensive for no (visible/felt) difference in movement speed; the buildup between activating boost and going fast is painfully visible on Mobile Defence AKA Murex runs in Scarlet Spear and missions with multiple objectives - the only time I feel any benefit for boosting is after I expend a whole charge and am flung to my desired destination) in my opinion is no different to trying to remove Bullet-Jumping + rolling, and buffing sprint speed twice. 

Pacing changes:
Limiting the amount of hazards renders the hazard deletion Avionic useless, and will make people more liable to ignore them until they're the only threat left, which is resolved by just going to Drydock.
Increasing the Revolite drain to deal with hazards renders buffing the production amount useless - this is the same as decreasing the total amount you can carry on your Railjack and nerfing the mission failure hole's Revolite cost. Those who care about that will notice this.
Making enemy ships spawn closer to me feels no different to some defence missions - they'll die before they can start doing their thing, or will overwhelm the Railjack, without room to prepare or think tactically. Furthermore, this turns most of the map into a loot/light-exploration game which few people want to experience due to the boredom of no enemies left to fight because they all charged in at the starting area of any given mission and died because of the Railjack being progressed suitably.

Avionics changes:
The wording on this is confusing for a lot of people, me included, and sounds not unlike deleting the equivalent of the gold element+status mods - or Drifting Contact - just because they cost less space than others (such as Body Count, which could do with some sort of buff). I compare these to mods because that's what they are going to become if we try to simplify these.
Deleting avionics someone might not have a certain version of will deprive them of the means to adequately configure themselves to progress further when Corpus, Infested, Corrupted, and Sentient missions are finally added. If ever.

Battle Avionics...:
Avionics that deal damage should have the damage benefit from (an) equipped weapon(s), due to enemy scaling - this is most visible with the missile barrage Avionic not finishing off Veil ships.
I use Particle Ram as a melee weapon since Railjacks don't have a 'melee weapon', and I do not want to go out and cut every. Single. Rock. For resources. Imagine spending 75% of your Railjack stream digging because you need the resources. It's annoying enough when I lose my Sentinel to permadeath after randomly dying from AOE, along with the convenience of knowing where loot/enemies are. In summary, preferred change would be something like 'when idle, Particle Ram deals less damage, but adds shield damage reduction on the forward facing (scales with duration of idleness)', allowing the Ram to have more utility features, and keeping it within it's theme of being a barbed plough/shield for ramming into things with it still mounted rather than a giant Arca Plasmor - which it would be if you make it discharge when not moving.

 

What I have said is based on my recollection and experiences. Anything I have not removed from the quotation is anything I'm actually looking forward to.

Something to consider to help people understand what you're on about in the present/future: 
I know this may be asking much given the circumstances, but I would like to see a longer explanation for these changes generally, reinforced by example video clips - if you do go with this, it would be fine in my opinion to borrow from Stream/YouTube clips to help explain things in any posts going forward so the communication isn't muddled by the vague phrasing text can sometimes cause for people.

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4 minutes ago, ValinorAtani said:

Still not enough Vacuum in Open Space 😜 Right now you should get rid ot the stubborn vision that we wont like a univac. Sometimes you have to admit that you're wrong. You (or whoever is in charge onto this decision) should take a step behind is personell Ego to get some QoL back into the game.

couldn't have said it better. but just look at how much noise we had to do just for vacuum for sentinels, then pets. DE don't put univac or bigger vacuum because they think we don't want, but because THEY don't want. that's the depressing thing. someone at DE doesn't want it.

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28 minutes ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

Warframe isn't/is no longer(?) a game that's meant to be challenging.

 

28 minutes ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

arcade-like gameplay,

?????

Arcade games are typically soul crushingly difficult to eat more coins/tokens. These two ideas don't go together at all. Also, people want things to be challenging because games that give the player too much power don't hold their attention as long as games that make you work for it.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Poisonjack said:

Sound really lame on paper. If the Railjack's badly damaged, it should be damaged all over. This doesn't really make a lot of sense from a logical perspective, as a fire shouldn't prevent other fires from occurring, neither from a gameplay perspective, since it trivializes repairing the ship.

While I agree with you, it's a lost cause. The number of threads from people complaining about multiple fires and being "unable to do anything" because having to put out fires spread out throughout the ship are too big of a prevalence as to not have an impact in the decision. This is a case in which convenience has killed immersion.  

Edited by Jarriaga
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2 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

While I agree with you, it's a lost cause. The number of threads from people complaining about multiple fires and being "unable to do anything" because having to put out fires spread out throughout the ship are too big of a prevalence as to don't have an impact in the decision. This is a case in which convenience has killed immersion.  

if someone is PERMANENTLY locked doing only hazard, as in, they literally don't have a single second to rest ( don't laugh, that can happen, not everyone got void hole + Vortex. ) and that the second the fixed stuff is done, another appears, and so on and so on, it's not immersion, it's just being annoying at that point.

"another one. and another one"

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, mikakor said:

if someone is PERMANENTLY locked doing only hazard, as in, they literally don't have a single second to rest ( don't laugh, that can happen, not everyone got void hole + Vortex. ) and that the second the fixed stuff is done, another appears, and so on and so on, it's not immersion, it's just being annoying at that point.

"another one. and another one"

But you said it yourself: That's a result of not having the appropriate gear, which is something most people will have now considering they are removing lesser/inferior house avionics and doubling intrinsic acquisition rate. 

I've been soloing RJ ever since it came out because I dislike other people joining my ship and not follow my orders. Putting out multiple fires even in the forge bay is a non-issue once you have fire suppression avionics and remote repair intrinsics. Punishing those who enjoy the immersion because not everyone is at the same level is not a good answer either, because what is "annoying" is relative to subjective player enjoyment, while immersion is not, as it is a direct result of objective expectations for said situations even if they are not "fun".

There are more elegant middle-ground solutions that don't punish immersion that much, such as a grace period between new fires. This still allows for multiple fires to happen if they are not attended, but you never see 2 fires starting in close proximity. And this doesn't outright kill immersion like the current proposal does.

I'm not happy about it. But I understand it's a lost cause since convenience will always win for the same reason universal vacuum was demanded for pets.

Edited by Jarriaga
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Well, damn.

 

I still haven't gotten my hands on the glorious Void Hole thanks to RNGesus (seriously increase the frickin drop chance, people) and it's duration is getting nerfed into non existence.

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