Design Council =/= Test Cluster?

[(PSN)Crixus044]

DE: We need a group of players
DC: HII!!!
DE: that can help us playtest. Preferably, someone active on the forums
DC: Oh thank God, I knew this day would come
DE: and experienced!! Yes, we need people with experience.
DC: Yo imma crank up my Excal Prime were going in this old scho...
DE: LET'S HAVE A LOTTERY IN THE FORUMS!!!
DC: 😢

I was ecstatic at first to be invited into the Design Council

All my extensive 10 page long complex mathematical formulas for ttk, dps and ehp, build optimization, all my experience, and ideas will finally be heard with priority. The ratio of success from updates will GREATLY increase. I can join founders and fellow long time players of the game in making it better for the shear love of it. 

So I waited to be of service

And waited

Update came out with mixed reviews

I still waited

Update comes out a success

I wait

Updates comes out a failure

I question what the hell im doing here. 

"We're making a group of playtesters for our next update"

I'm STILL waiting to be of service

Why isn't the game's group of playtesters including the already selected group of experienced gamers? When is the Design Council going to be of use for what their name suggests, the group that contains all the original players, the Founders? Founders! The guys that helped fund this game when it was nothing! The guys that been here since the beginning. You can't get more experience. And the rest of the DC are simply players like everyone else except they've ALREADY been vetted as active and with a positive standing on the forums. They are already proven themselves as viable and experienced players. What are we doing?!

The test cluster is already set, so it is too late to change things, but it was a slap in the face for us DC guys they've waited years to do just what you asked and we were skipped over.

For the future, if you, Digital Extremes, are gonna be reaching out to us players for feedback, consider the resources you already have and utilize the DC for more than the occasional survey.

EDIT: I am not a founder myself, but I have  nothing but respect for the crew that made this game possible as well as my fellow councillors.

Edited April 25, 2020 by (PS4)Crixus044

[Kaotyke]

We are Region Prime. The Global Chat.

... That's all.

[DrivaMain]

My concerns is that allowing everyone on the Design Council might also spark at outrage to DE for being "only listening to the minority".

People are already upset with only the DC's authority to vote on the community warframe theme. Let's not make it worse

Edited April 25, 2020 by DrivaMain

[Myscho]

Design councils members doesnt have anything to do with experienced players, Founders also mean jack sht, thats why they do lottery, because they need wide spectrum of players. You know, not all category have same opinion what is good or bad for game

Edited April 25, 2020 by Myscho

[RamonLLLL]

3 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

My concerns is that allowing everyone on the Design Council might also spark at outrage to DE for being "only listening to the minority".

People are already upset with only the DC's authority to vote on the community warframe theme. Let's not make it worse

Then again, forums are actually also the smallest of the minority

[GreyDeath789]

3 minutes ago, Myscho said:

Design councils members doesnt have anything to do with experienced players, Founders also mean jack sht, thats why they do lottery, because they need wide spectrum of players = noobs, advanced and then veterans. You know, not all category have same opinion what is good or bad for game

This is an amazing take on what the design council "could" be...which is different than what it "is" based on the comments seen on the forums.

DE needs to address the purpose of the design council since it could have a very positive impact to the game.

[RamonLLLL]

6 minutes ago, Myscho said:

Design councils members doesnt have anything to do with experienced players, Founders also mean jack sht, thats why they do lottery, because they need wide spectrum of players = noobs, advanced and then veterans. You know, not all category have same opinion what is good or bad for game

...that's not what the demographics are, and that's definitely not how testing works

Edited April 25, 2020 by RamonLeeYJ

[(PSN)Crixus044]

7 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

My concerns is that allowing everyone on the Design Council might also spark at outrage to DE for being "only listening to the minority".

Isn't a test cluster of merely 500 players also a minority then?

If not, then neither is the DC. We are not some unified ethnicity here; we are random players from across platforms and backgrounds.

What minority are we? The minority of experienced players? Is that really a bad thing? Isn't DE vetting ther test cluster based on experience also? This is a playtest group.

[GreyDeath789]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

For the future, if you, Digital Extremes, are gonna be reaching out to us players for feedback, consider the resources you already have and utilize the DC for more than the occasional survey.

This is valid IMO. While the DC shouldn't be the only players on the test server...if they are not part of the test server then DE has made the DC a meaningless group of players.

Not sure how many people are on the DC but a number of them "should" be on the PTS...perhaps all of them if the DC numbers are small enough.

DE_Rebecca indicated 200 people were selected from the lottery...and a few others (partners, DC, etc?)...the PTS would benefit from a 'large' number of players but since this is new to them maybe it is a stress test thing this time but the DC should be represented even on this run.

[Myscho]

4 minutes ago, GreyDeath789 said:

This is an amazing take on what the design council "could" be...which is different than what it "is" based on the comments seen on the forums.

Sometimes i wonder why Design council still exist, serves almost no purpose

[RamonLLLL]

7 minutes ago, Myscho said:

Sometimes i wonder why Design council still exist, serves almost no purpose

 Try and take an educated guess while remaining within topical context

[(XBOX)Grimsley Clause]

As a fellow councilor, I can concur with this in its entirety.

There's a growing tension between many councilors and DE right now due to this very type of thing. We don't get any work, maybe vote on a damn dojo planter or vote on an augment that we didn't get to decide once in a blue moon, with the community surveys ultimately exceeding the usefulness of the DC.

I'm unsure if DE just doesn't know how to handle the Council, or if they're just keeping appearances to a bare minimum for some Founder clause.

Hell, Crix here is a great mathematician, I've set him up with other game Devs like Gunground who are currently working on Serious Sam Tormental, and he's making balance passes left and right and giving much needed formulas that Warframe could very much benefit from but ultimately never gets to help with.

With the recent update failures, having some councilors, or testers in this case, look at this stuff and just give general player viewpoints on things, they might have been received much better.

Edited April 25, 2020 by (XB1)Grimsley Clause

[Xaero]

35 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

My concerns is that allowing everyone on the Design Council might also spark at outrage to DE for being "only listening to the minority".

And 100-500 absolutely random players are not a minority, right..?

[GreyDeath789]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)Grimsley Clause said:

As a fellow councilor, I can concur with this in its entirety.

There's a growing tension between many councilors and DE right now due to this very type of thing. We don't get any work, maybe vote on a damn dojo planter or vote on an augment that we didn't get to decide once in a blue moon, with the community surveys ultimately exceeding the usefulness of the DC.

Seems the DC members might need to start making videos so DE notices?

Seriously, agree with your comments about DE learning how to better leverage the DC as a group. It seems at times the DE forgets things it has created and those things almost fade away. It takes effort but that effort could be worth it...otherwise abolish it so people can't complain about it being underused or misused IMO.

 

[Xaero]

BTW, if you get a pass, you're automatically invited to DC as well. Even if you have only 1 post on forums (the post which opted you in).

[(XBOX)Grimsley Clause]

1 minute ago, GreyDeath789 said:

Seems the DC members might need to start making videos so DE notices?

Seriously, agree with your comments about DE learning how to better leverage the DC as a group. It seems at times the DE forgets things it has created and those things almost fade away. It takes effort but that effort could be worth it...otherwise abolish it so people can't complain about it being underused or misused IMO.

 

Iirc it was either Rebecca or Danielle that straight up said they forgot we existed.

If we went on strike, DE would immediately see how useless the DC is in it's current state with how we're utilized. As it stands, the Design Council serves no substantial purpose, and our presence means nothing. This is not how it should be handled.

It's become a chore being so negative about the growing issues with Warframe and the DC, but it's the only thing keeping me invested anymore.

[(XBOX)Grimsley Clause]

3 minutes ago, Xaero said:

BTW, if you get a pass, you're automatically invited to DC as well. Even if you have only 1 post on forums (the post which opted you in).

That explains a lot.

Gonna have to make some revisions to the DC discord.

[Xaero]

40 minutes ago, Myscho said:

they need wide spectrum of players = noobs, advanced and then veterans

The selection is completely random though. It could be 500 noobs or 500 veterans.

Also, how could new players help with Railjack revision testing, considering it's far from beginner's content?

[JackHargreav]

7 minutes ago, Xaero said:

The selection is completely random though. It could be 500 noobs or 500 veterans.

Also, how could new players help with Railjack revision testing, considering it's far from beginner's content?

Originally it was planned to be something for the vets. But De decided that it'd produce way less money if only they would play Rj.

That's why they lowered building costs. And probably in Rj revisited they will make it even more accessible.

[Darkuhn]

Could we get an explanation on this Topic from @[DE]Rebecca , @[DE]Grineeer or @[DE]Steve?

[Xaero]

Just now, JackHargreav said:

Originally it was planned to be something for the vets. But De decided that it'd produce way less money if only they would play Rj.

That's why they lowered building costs. And probably in Rj revisited they will make it even more accessible.

Might as well make it a new prologue, hehe.

[GreyDeath789]

17 minutes ago, (XB1)Grimsley Clause said:

Iirc it was either Rebecca or Danielle that straight up said they forgot we existed.

If we went on strike, DE would immediately see how useless the DC is in it's current state with how we're utilized.

Not to be hurtful but if DE forgot about the DC if they went on strike would it even be noticed?

I mean...in an empty forest does a falling tree make any noise?

[(XBOX)Grimsley Clause]

1 minute ago, GreyDeath789 said:

Not to be hurtful but if DE forgot about the DC if they went on strike would it even be noticed?

I mean...in an empty forest does a falling tree make any noise?

Hell, now that testers get DC access, I'm having to have all councilors go unverified on the Design Council Discord until I can work something out.

They didn't even make us the Discord, us councilors did, and they still managed to muck it up.

[RamonLLLL]

This makes as much sense as putting in that excuse for an augment, if they have keys to a new subforum, why even bother giving them DC access as well??

[(PSN)robotwars7]

this thread. this thread so GODDAMN much!

this is like having a scientist and a test monkey in the same room, and asking the monkey about science: DE are blatantly ignoring the experience and knowledge of DC members: I'm not saying that others shouldn't help: quite the opposite actually, DE needs all the help they can get. that's ALL the help, from us, from other experienced players AND from newer players. but how can anything good come of letting people who might have next to zero experience of the game help make decisions that affect all of us?

on one hand I want to be happy that DE is finally showing signs of listening to their community, but at the same time I can't help but feel frustrated that, in the one scenario the Design Council was built for, we aren't even given a mention. myself and a few other members I know have always joked about how we are never noticed by DE, but I never expected their ignorance to be so blatantly obvious. I want to help this game; so does just about every Councillor I've ever met, we all want to give DE feedback on our ideas and have them at least consider it, but they have literally disregarded our existence. it's, quite frankly, insulting. 

I know DE can do better than this. there is still time to approach the DC and communicate with us: ask us what we want for the future of warframe! are you afraid we'll rebuke you? no, we won't. in fact we'll be incredibly grateful just to be listened to for once; to finally help you shape the game, as was the entire reason for the forming of the DC in the first place.

TL;DR: DE needs to remind themselves that we exist and that we want to help: they need to start listening to us properly: let them keep the test cluster as well, because as I said, they need ALL the help they can get.

Edited April 25, 2020 by (PS4)robotwars7