[Devstream 141 Feedback] Concerns with Corpus's new enemies, Jackyl rework, Corpus ship remaster and Deadlock Protocol as a whole.

[SprinKah]

9 hours ago, Duality52 said:

As another note, the Corpus Ship tile is the first and oldest tileset in the game. Back in 2012, the Grineer and the Corpus Ship used to be the only parts of the game.

I'm fine with more divisions of the Corpus, considering that this is their fourth variant (normal, Terra, Vapos, and soon Juno) compared to the Grineer (normal, Frontier, Arid, Drekar, Kuva, Nightwatch, Tusk, and Gokstad with their three regional divisions). Considering what happened with the balancing of the Vapos Corpus, DE understood why enemy design and balance like the Terra Corpus is just straight-up awful.

While I totally get it. they're replacing the most common Corpus enemy type in one of the most common tileset. So I'm just kinda curious about the...direction they're taking.

Grineer has their normal, no name desgination  Lancers and Butchers and such

Spoiler

Corpus has their normal, no name desgination Crewmen and Moas

Spoiler

If they were to replace the Corpus ones in Corpus Ship, would they do the same with the Grineer ones in Galleon and Asteroid? I know it's a rather...strange concern but I'd like to see both Grineer and Corpus getting the same sort of love, in terms of enemy variety

And while yes, Grineer does "technically" have more...."variants" They are almost entirely....recolors of the same enemy over and over. Like Kuva and Tusk elite lancers are the same. Arid/Frontier/Drekar/normal troopers are the same, all Butcher variants are the same. Napalsm, Bombards, etc...Only recently they are getting variants with actual differences. 

I feel like we shouldn't include open-world and Railjack enemies because they are kinda...in an entirely different environment, fundamentally. Plus, we haven't got Corpus Railajck enemies yet but they're definitely getting there.

 

22 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

They're running a hacked-together dev build with descriptions that read "Description here." I suspect the entire tileset runs at this level regardless of mission node. We never actually saw how Rebecca even got to them, since she swapped screens while doing it. Feels like she was sing dev hacks to trigger missions, rather than picking them off the Star Chart. Steve went out of his way to talk about how the Jackal is the first boss most players meet, so I doubt they'd push his mission to 30. That would be fairly dumb, so I see no reason to worry about it.

 

I expect we'll eventually see ALL Corpus forces redesigned - at least I hope to. You're going to see inconsistency until then. I mean think about it - right now we have at least four versions of the Corpus Ship tileset. You have the standard Corpus Ship, you have the Venus/Pluto Corpus Ice Planet which is built partially out of ship tileset pieces and uses ship Spy Vaults, you have the Europa Corpus Ship Crash Site tileset which in a lot of cases is built out of modified Corpus rooms and still uses same Spy Vaults and you have the Infested Corpus Ship which doesn't share entire rooms but shares art assets a lot. The new Corpus Ship design isn't just an up-rezzing of the old assets. It also has a completely different "feel" to it, moving away from the generic space opera industrial sci-fi look and more towards Destiny style sci-fi fantasy religious iconography. That's going to clash HARD with essentially anything else Corpus-designed that's not in Orb Vallis up until they can get around to redesigning all of the above.

Personally, I'd like to see "generic" faction enemies disappear altogether, replaced by individual subfaction variants. Rather than JUST a Crewman, I'd prefer to have a Vapos Crewman or a Terra Crewman or something of the same nature. Rather than just a Lancer, I'd rather see an Arid Lancer or a Tusk Lancer or a Kuva Lancer. Rather than the "generic soldiers we had at Launch when there was no variety," I'd much rather have a more diverse set of Corpus soldiers assigned to different tilesets. The Grineer already MOSTLY have that, with standard-issue soldiers appearing mostly on Galleon, Asteroid and Shipyard tilesets. Point being - rather than trying to retain the old faction-wide designs, I'd prefer to have more subdivisions with their own unique colour schemes, weapons and general visual design.

About the lvl 30 thing, yeah, perhaps. We'll see when it comes to that haha.

And about the Corpus forces redesign. You're right, we're gonna see some inconsistency for a while. But I suppose they won't exactly go and change them, at least for a long while because DE did say that lore-wise...these remasters are....renovations. Corpus's new line of capital ships. 

And yeah, I suppose I don't mind the whole "generic" enemies disappearing altogether. That'd make gameplay more....interesting I suppose.

But, setting all gameplay and such aside. Corpus ships, Galleons, Asteroids and such are very wide-spread tilesets. Unlike Mars, Jupiter, Ceres, Europa, etc... Their tileset isn completely planet-specific. So it makes more sense to have a more....designated force for those tilesets (Which Ceres and Europa still lack haha). 

So I suppose there should still be a sorta....main battalion for capital ships and such, right? The main...bulk of the army. Just like how in Warhammer 40k, the Cadian Shock Troops make up the bulk of the Imperium of Man's Astra Militarum (military).

Like how Terra Corpus is for the harsh environment of Venus, Vapos Corpus is for the gassy environment of Jupiter, Tusk Grineer is specialized in Plains work, Arid for the sandy environment of Mars and such....And then we have the "generic" dudes, that are stationed on Galleons and Corpus ships, the generic "jack of all trades, master of none" regiment. I feel like the 2 factions should at least have that, it's rather...nit-picky I know but it kinda makes sense...theme-wise. 

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by SprinKah

[SprinKah]

2 hours ago, AnimPL said:

i changed color scheme... it's done reallly poorly, sorry

Now that...that is just...kinda perfect!

It'll take some time to get used to the...helmet but I think I can work off it. 

[Steel_Rook]

3 hours ago, SprinKah said:

So I suppose there should still be a sorta....main battalion for capital ships and such, right? The main...bulk of the army. Just like how in Warhammer 40k, the Cadian Shock Troops make up the bulk of the Imperium of Man's Astra Militarum (military).

This I have no ideological disagreements with. It makes sense that Corpus and Grineer forces would have a more general expeditionary or space ship Corps each, making up the "generic" versions of that faction - the kind which would show up on any planet when we attack the ships in orbit. I just want that force to have a name prefix as well, rather than being "adjectiveless." Even if it's something as simple as Obelisk Corpus and Galleon Grineer.

[SprinKah]

5 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

This I have no ideological disagreements with. It makes sense that Corpus and Grineer forces would have a more general expeditionary or space ship Corps each, making up the "generic" versions of that faction - the kind which would show up on any planet when we attack the ships in orbit. I just want that force to have a name prefix as well, rather than being "adjectiveless." Even if it's something as simple as Obelisk Corpus and Galleon Grineer.

I suppose I don't entirely disagree with your view. All in all, I don't mind it too much, I guess I just hope that DE would at least, eventually, come down fully with it. 

But yknow, I hope DE would at LEAST, keep the same color schemes, unique and iconic to both factions after all this. 

And still, about the new Corpus helmet....Personally, it'll take some time for me at least, to probably get used to it. With the OG boxy helmet is plastered everywhere already, it has become iconic to the Corpus, it'd be weird seeing it replaced entirely. Maybe it doesn't matter that much but it'd be very...uncanny, at least to me

Edited April 27, 2020 by SprinKah

[Steel_Rook]

9 hours ago, SprinKah said:

I suppose I don't entirely disagree with your view. All in all, I don't mind it too much, I guess I just hope that DE would at least, eventually, come down fully with it. But yknow, I hope DE would at LEAST, keep the same color schemes, unique and iconic to both factions after all this.

Yeah, I'm not really opposed to tweaking enemy colour schemes closer to their original counterparts. The current "default" Corpus colour scheme does a decent job making Snipers and Techs stand out, not so much the various types of Crewman. However, I have a bit of a non-standard opinion the matter of enemy design. Generally speaking, I prefer having a SMALLER variety of enemies on-screen at the same time, with differences being more meaningful overall.  That's part of the reason why I support splitting larger factions into multiple "Corps" each with its own individual unit selection. Rather than having ALL of the Crewmen and ALL of the Moas and ALL of the Ospreys spawning at us in one amorphous crowd, I'd rather each Corps holding maybe one or two of each. With that kind of design, telling enemies apart becomes much easier, thus less work has to go into making each enemy visually clearly distinct.

Ultimately, though, we'll see. My only horse in the race here is I want to see the game's visual design move forward, rather than necessarily trying to recreate the past in HD. It's going to take time and the contrast between new and old assets is going to be weird, but hopefully that'll even out over time.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

I'm actually glad to see a lot of the old enemy models being replaced, some of the original ones are seriously outdated. Especially the infested. I'd rather they use the new style and so some classic box-head variants for nostalgia's sake over just keeping the old models.

[SprinKah]

5 hours ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

I'm actually glad to see a lot of the old enemy models being replaced, some of the original ones are seriously outdated. Especially the infested. I'd rather they use the new style and so some classic box-head variants for nostalgia's sake over just keeping the old models.

It's not much about...nostalgia. Sure it's a bit of it but it's more like...the box head has become the image of the main Corpus's fighting force. It's palstered everywhere, old codex diorammas, Invasion UIs, nightwave cutscenes, Prime trailers, game trailers, EVERY WHERE! Even John Prodman still has his box helmet.

It's not really outdated at all, if you compare it with the new helmets released for Orb Vallis Terra Corpus...there's kinda the same amoutn of detail, just in a different shape. PBR is already applied to the boxy crewmen's helmet. It's more for...consistency's sake. I like the new Corpus helmets as much as the next guy, but if the Corpus's boxy helmet is getting replaced with new ones in the supposed MAIN TILESET of the Corpus faction...it'd be a bit weird, over time, people would probably start asking....WHO ARE THESE CORPUS DUDES WITH BOXY HELMETS in like....Warframe-related images and videos and such. Surely you understand.

It's like...replacing the normal Grineer lancesr that wear their iconic mask, that has been around in every warframe trailer, cover art, comics, art, etc... ENTIRELY with...idk, some weird variant that resembles NOTHING like them. 

Spoiler

You really shouldn't mess with these things that have been around Warframe for ages, unless DE has a way to complete replace every existing assets and such with new Corpus and Grineer visuals, it's gonna create a mess in aesthetics...

For years and years since the start of the game, Corpus has always had their boxy helmets, Grineer has always had their masks as the representation of their armor...if they're going to change all that, people are gonna eventually get confused looking at the new and old assets, asking..."so are these dudes with boxy helmet Corpus or are THESE dudes with pointy helmet Corpus???"

I wouldn't have minded if they just upgraded the overall quality of the boxy helmet (which isn't even that bad, compared to the new helmet designs) and keep the same, shape language of the Corpus's helmet that we're familiar with. Sure some may or may not like the shape language of it, EVEN I am not a fan of it but it doesn't matter, it's been the whole aesthetic of the Corpus since the beginning.

I feel the new helmets should only stick to specialized Corpus enemy variants that are planet-specific and not for a tileset as wide-spread as the Corpus ship (Same with Galleon and Asteroid). 

Edited April 27, 2020 by SprinKah

[(PSN)ATPEngineerGming]

If they are gonna remove the jackal from Venus, how will the post Venus players be affected when the Mercury junction Requirements change? Will they have to do the junction again but not have to do all the missions on Mercury?

[SprinKah]

10 hours ago, (PS4)ElectricOmega96 said:

If they are gonna remove the jackal from Venus, how will the post Venus players be affected when the Mercury junction Requirements change? Will they have to do the junction again but not have to do all the missions on Mercury?

yknow, maybe they're gonna do the same thing like Jupiter tileset, where there're gonna be higher lvl mission nodes pass the original boss node. 

[(PSN)ATPEngineerGming]

I saw one of DE’s post. It doesn’t look like the Jackal will be removed from Venus