Redeemer Dont Deserve This

[8faiNt]

Redeemer's performance in casual missions is just awful compared to any other melee. It cannot deal with a crowd quickly enough. It will get a lower dispo with every disposition change even though it is objectively one of the worse melee to play with. Stance changes aka melee rework made it awful. Spamming E as useless as Atlas' 1. The only way to actually damage enemies is using your heavy attack and even then you're limited to a single enemy with a godawful speed. 

and then we have Scythes, Heavy Attacking with them with a decent build will obliterate group of enemies very easily. I dont understand where is the balance here. They are basically the better gunblade.

Redeemer cannot kill group of enemies ✓
It is slower than most melee ✓
Bad dispo ✓

I cant be the only one thinking like this. sure, Redeemer was a good melee for eidolons but who even cares about Eidolons at this point? They are obsolete. DE should stop changing Redeemer's disposition based on popularity because as someone who used redeemer a lot and has it as it's most used weapon, It is one of the worse melee weapons in the current game to play in a casual mission.

Gunblades overall in a really bad spot. The only thing that kept redeemer going downhill was it's dispo. Now that they started nerfing it, there's no reason to play it (If there were any at all already) 
Simply, there are better melee weapons out there and If I know DE, they will keep nerfing redeemer's disposition till it is too late. I feel responsible for not saying anything as I really like the idea behind gunblades.

thanks for coming to my ted talk

Edited April 28, 2020 by 8faiNt

[nslay]

Wait, what are they doing to do to Redeemer? What did you hear? Where did you hear it?

But... if it is Redeemer, it probably does deserve it. I mean, it's really dumb that one shot from Redeemer can outdamage an entire magazine of Lanka at full combo. If it were an actual melee in the conventional sense, that would be different. But you can even snipe enemies at range with Redeemer while outdamaging actual sniper rifles! That's stupidly overpowered IMO!

EDIT: It has bad dispo because everyone else noticed how stupidly overpowered it is (including me).

Edited April 28, 2020 by nslay

[8faiNt]

24 minutes ago, nslay said:

Wait, what are they doing to do to Redeemer? What did you hear? Where did you hear it?

But... if it is Redeemer, it probably does deserve it. I mean, it's really dumb that one shot from Redeemer can outdamage an entire magazine of Lanka at full combo. If it were an actual melee in the conventional sense, that would be different. But you can even snipe enemies at range with Redeemer while outdamaging actual sniper rifles! That's stupidly overpowered IMO!

EDIT: It has bad dispo because everyone else noticed how stupidly overpowered it is (including me).

well if i ve seen this comment before the melee rework, I would say that you are right but since we are passed that I think you dont play redeemer.

[nslay]

4 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

well if i ve seen this comment before the melee rework, I would say that you are right but since we are passed that I think you dont play redeemer.

I used it all Scarlet Spear to kill the Condrixes fast. It does more damage in a single shot than a full magazine of 6 forma full combo Lanka. In fact... I didn't even use primary after I figured out Redeemer Prime can outdamage the snipers for Condrix.

EDIT: Add the part about expending the full magazine of a Lanka to do less damage than a single shot of Redeemer Prime... just to show where Redeemer Prime stands against one of the most powerful primaries in the game.

Edited April 28, 2020 by nslay

[8faiNt]

5 minutes ago, nslay said:

I used it all Scarlet Spear to kill the Condrixes fast. It does more damage in a single shot than a full magazine of 6 forma full combo Lanka. In fact... I didn't even use primary after I figured out Redeemer Prime can outdamage the snipers for Condrix.

oh boy, that surely makes it a beast, absolute unit against casual missions which I talk bout in the thread already.

If you didnt know, Exodia Contagion did a whole lot better than Redeemer for scarlet spear. That doesnt make exodia contagion op.

Quote

EDIT: Add the part about expending the full magazine of a Lanka to do less damage than a single shot of Redeemer Prime... just to show where Redeemer Prime stands against one of the most powerful primaries in the game.

first off, redeemer is a melee and not a primary. You cant basically compare them.
and like i said, there are better melee weapons than redeemer with better dispo. The logic of yours make no sense here.

Edited April 28, 2020 by 8faiNt

[nslay]

Just now, 8faiNt said:

oh boy, that surely makes it a beast, absolute unit against casual missions which I talk bout in the thread already.

If you didnt know, Exodia Contagion did a whole lot better than Redeemer for scarlet spear. That doesnt make exodia contagion op.

Redeemer Prime is still substantially better than a full magazine of shots from a full combo ripped Lanka. It's not even funny... for most of the event, I carried a primary with a focus lens that I never used once. Just use Redeemer Prime to kill the Condrix, Khora's whip for everything else and use the Catchmoon to blow the canisters on the Aerolyst.

Exodia Contagion is a bit harder to use than Redeemer Prime to be completely fair... just point and shoot Redeemer Prime.

[8faiNt]

6 minutes ago, nslay said:

Redeemer Prime is still substantially better than a full magazine of shots from a full combo ripped Lanka. It's not even funny... for most of the event, I carried a primary with a focus lens that I never used once. Just use Redeemer Prime to kill the Condrix, Khora's whip for everything else and use the Catchmoon to blow the canisters on the Aerolyst.

Exodia Contagion is a bit harder to use than Redeemer Prime to be completely fair... just point and shoot Redeemer Prime.

so, you dont aim and shoot with exodia contagion? anyway. I already talked about how bad redeemer is in casual missions. I am repeating myself at this point. Clearly, you dont play redeemer in a relic mission or such, if you did, you would know how bad and slow it is compared to any other melee which is why it shouldn't get any lower dispo than it already has.

and like i said you just cant compare a melee weapon to a primary weap which you did once again for some reason

[nslay]

1 minute ago, 8faiNt said:

so, you dont aim and shoot with exodia contagion? anyway. I already talked about how bad redeemer is in casual missions. I am repeating myself at this point. Clearly, you dont play redeemer in a relic mission or such, if you did, you would know how bad and slow it is compared to any other melee which is why it shouldn't get any lower dispo than it already has.

and like i said you just cant compare a melee weapon to a primary weap which you did once again for some reason

Well, I had to forma the Redeemer Prime somehow... I used it in 40 minute runs of Derelict Survival, one run for each forma. Worked fine there... I wouldn't call it bad.

But you know, it's one of the few melees that can shoot almost like a gun. So yes, it's comparable to primaries and secondaries because it can do the same thing as those. Like kill a Condrix faster than one of the game's most powerful weapons.

[AVAQ]

11 minutes ago, nslay said:

So yes, it's comparable to primaries and secondaries because it can do the same thing as those. Like kill a Condrix faster than one of the game's most powerful weapons.

Pardon me, but why is that a bad thing here? You are obviously stating that Lanka underperformed compared to it, but you are only tying the arguments to the event. A lot of bad things happen when it comes to limited time events (see: Limbo) so that doesn't mean they should impact the rest of the game. (Limbo changes should get reverted anyways, since they were just a quick action)

25 minutes ago, nslay said:

Exodia Contagion is a bit harder to use than Redeemer Prime to be completely fair... just point and shoot Redeemer Prime.

Have you even used Contagion after m3.0? You no longer dash when meleeing midair, so the only difference is that you have to jump before shooting, but in return you get to oneshot the Condrix.

At last, the event is over now. Is Redeemer now supposed to remain useless for 99% of content because it was the 2nd best option in a limited time event?

[nslay]

4 minutes ago, AVAQ said:

At last, the event is over now. Is Redeemer now supposed to remain useless for 99% of content because it was the 2nd best option in a limited time event?

I don't think it's useless in 99% of the content, you're exaggerating.

One thing I've learned from this event is that any time you need to do a lot of ranged damage to a single target, you're probably better off using Redeemer Prime than a primary or secondary (especially if you play Khora where you hold 12x melee combo the whole time!). You can do substantial ranged damage with a melee and shoot almost like a gun (stand still, point and press 'e'). I mean, I don't even see the point of the primary or secondary anymore if we're talking high single target damage. Just use Redeemer Prime... and yes, I think that's a problem. That could either be a problem because primaries and secondaries are too weak (definitely primaries), or the Redeemer Prime is just too powerful.

Either way, I spent time and resources making and modding my Redeemer Prime and Sarpa gunblades for various purposes. I'd hate to see Redeemer Prime get a nerf or a change, but if it did, I would completely understand. It's a melee that works like a gun with infinite ammo, considerable range, a combo multiplier concept (and a Heavy Attack mechanic), that can easily replace any high damage single target primary or secondary in the game.

[AVAQ]

5 minutes ago, nslay said:

I don't think it's useless in 99% of the content, you're exaggerating.

One thing I've learned from this event is that any time you need to do a lot of ranged damage to a single target, you're probably better off using Redeemer Prime than a primary or secondary (especially if you play Khora where you hold 12x melee combo the whole time!). You can do substantial ranged damage with a melee and shoot almost like a gun (stand still, point and press 'e'). I mean, I don't even see the point of the primary or secondary anymore if we're talking high single target damage. Just use Redeemer Prime... and yes, I think that's a problem. That could either be a problem because primaries and secondaries are too weak (definitely primaries), or the Redeemer Prime is just too powerful.

I have yet to see Redeemer replace primaries and secondaries in day to day combat. The thing is that redeemer does play out like a primary, so you are basically left with no melee. Meaning if there is actually a mission where you really really need Redeemer, you are committing yourself to a single task mostly (by bring up warframes to this that can make up to that because you are in that case turning redeemer into a solely situational weapon). So the resolve should be that it should at least be able to deal with a bit of crowds, instead of being utterly useless for that. I'm not saying synergies shouldn't exist, but at the moment Redeemer is in a place where its either do synergy or its almost useless. There is really no point in bringing it to any other missions than bosses at the moment, while before m3.0 it could decently perform in survivals and such (but it was always not as good as regular melees for dealing with crowds)

[Famecans]

I think the DE wants to make the warframe as a warcraft RPG but it is difficult for that to happen

in role-playing games the meta weapons need a lot of resources and experience before they are obtained, here on the warframe you open relics to get the latest news from the game, spend a few months and updates and the weapon enters the vault with several nerfs

[Bacl]

I dont like nerfs to begin with but Redeemer P pretty much destroys everything in this game with ease without Riven ( i do not have for this weapon) so i would imagine that having one would make damage numbers so long that the server at DE shivers everytime you shoot something out of this dimension with it.

They said it from the start that Riven were to promote weaker weapons over the strong ones so no real surprises here.

 

Its sad and annoying but that was the purpose of the whole system and they been quite transparent with it.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Bacl

[Bacl]

7 hours ago, AVAQ said:

I have yet to see Redeemer replace primaries and secondaries in day to day combat. The thing is that redeemer does play out like a primary, so you are basically left with no melee. Meaning if there is actually a mission where you really really need Redeemer, you are committing yourself to a single task mostly (by bring up warframes to this that can make up to that because you are in that case turning redeemer into a solely situational weapon). So the resolve should be that it should at least be able to deal with a bit of crowds, instead of being utterly useless for that. I'm not saying synergies shouldn't exist, but at the moment Redeemer is in a place where its either do synergy or its almost useless. There is really no point in bringing it to any other missions than bosses at the moment, while before m3.0 it could decently perform in survivals and such (but it was always not as good as regular melees for dealing with crowds)

There is a way to play the Redeemer like a gun with infinite ammo.

This is how i did set up mine but it requires a few formas to work.

Use your regular mods like:

 

Pressure point,

Condition Overload,

Blood Rush,

Weeping Wound,

Gladiators might,

Elemental 1

Elemental 2

Last mod is up to you, either more crit damage, more speed, another elmental, etc.

 

The secret however is NO STANCE!

Equip the Redeemer, do a single quick attack then hold the right mouse button, spam the left button to just fire the burst. If you click to fast you will do the full basic melee combo but once you have the timing right ( Berserker make this far more spamable) you have the strongest shotgun in the game with infinite ammo.

 

Doomguy with the Super shotgun i tell you.

 

[BRZZAFK]

Redeemer cannot kill group of enemies - It's because of the stance not because of it's damage output so have nothing to do with it's dispo.
Bad dispo - If you can convince everyone it's a bad weapon and make people stop using it.

Edited April 29, 2020 by BRZZAFK

[taiiat]

you pretty much lost me when you negatively compared Redeemer to Landslide as if to say Landslide is bad - when it is anything but.

[TheGrimCorsair]

...what?

Are we talking about Redeemer or Redeemer Prime? 'Cause the latter is absolutely plenty powerful enough to pull weight better than most of the shotguns in the game, and the High Noon stance gives you both an excellent shooting loop and great "out of my face" melee combo. o.O

[8faiNt]

lmao.

all those comments saying that redeemer is so powerful...(I dont think we play the same game, duh) after melee 3.0, literally, any melee got to redeemer level good before the rework whilst redeemer become worse.

So, Redeemer is so good but it cannot deal with grouped up enemies and slow. yeah sure, that makes sense. Overhyped and hyperbole. that's what it is. Redeemer is as useless as atlas in casual missions and you have to be indenial to not accept that. You can easily out-kill redeemer with almost any melee, lowering the dispo just makes it worse.

Edited April 29, 2020 by 8faiNt

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

23 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

lmao.

all those comments saying that redeemer is so powerful...(I dont think we play the same game, duh) after melee 3.0, literally, any melee got to redeemer level good before the rework whilst redeemer become worse.

So, Redeemer is so good but it cannot deal with grouped up enemies and slow. yeah sure, that makes sense. Overhyped and hyperbole. that's what it is. Redeemer is as useless as atlas in casual missions and you have to be indenial to not accept that. You can easily out-kill redeemer with almost any melee, lowering the dispo just makes it worse.

It looks like you're simply using it differently than the other players. They like it as is, you don't. That's how variety works.

[ShortCat]

44 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

...lowering the dispo just makes it worse.

This is not a Redeemer thread. This is "my overpriced Riven will become weaker" thread.

Redeemer will not get a "nerf" with its disposition changes. The weapon will maintain the same power for ~98% of the playerbase, who do not own a Riven. All I see here is an attempt to push personal agenda and baseless whining.
And lets say, I do not agree with your view on Atlas as well as Redeemers performance.

[8faiNt]

6 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

This is not a Redeemer thread. This is "my overpriced Riven will become weaker" thread.

what you just said... your reply is the most ridiculous and doesn't even hold an argument value in this thread.

11 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

The weapon will maintain the same power for ~98% of the playerbase

yeah? how do you manage to get such accurate numbers? you cant even make a proper assumption about my thread.

I mean, I even explained myself. Did you even read the thread? Sorry but you are just laughable.

Quote

Simply, there are better melee weapons out there and If I know DE, they will keep nerfing redeemer's disposition till it is too late. I feel responsible for not saying anything as I really like the idea behind gunblades.

 

[ShortCat]

2 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

17 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

This is not a Redeemer thread. This is "my overpriced Riven will become weaker" thread.

what you just said... your reply is the most ridiculous and doesn't even hold an argument value in this thread.

16 hours ago, 8faiNt said:

I know DE, they will keep nerfing redeemer's disposition till it is too late.

Noooooo, I pulled it out of thin air. Good luck with your agenda.

 

[AVAQ]

7 hours ago, Bacl said:

Pressure point,

Condition Overload,

Blood Rush,

Weeping Wound,

...

PPP is pointless on builds that contain both weeping and CO.

7 hours ago, Bacl said:

The secret however is NO STANCE!

Equip the Redeemer, do a single quick attack then hold the right mouse button, spam the left button to just fire the burst. If you click to fast you will do the full basic melee combo but once you have the timing right ( Berserker make this far more spamable) you have the strongest shotgun in the game with infinite ammo.

 

I followed as you said and it still is at least 3-4 times slower than it used to be with the old heavy attack redeemer.

7 hours ago, BRZZAFK said:

Bad dispo - If you can convince everyone it's a bad weapon and make people stop using it.

People have indeed stopped using it for everything where you need to kill mobs rather than single target. Even on single target scenarios where you are able to melee the target people wont take redeemer, but only when you have to hit specific parts of the body.

 

[AVAQ]

26 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

This is not a Redeemer thread. This is "my overpriced Riven will become weaker" thread.

Well that's the best we can expect since it will take another 3 years for the stances and its mechanics to change for the better.

[8faiNt]

1 minute ago, ShortCat said:

Noooooo, I pulled it out of thin air. Good luck with your agenda.

You're just making fun of yourself with your silly assumptions. Not gonna help derail my thread with your ridiculousness. You're delusional.