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3 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Precisely. Welcome to the point.

Really not how exploits work, my dude.

You could at least try explaining yourself? Given that people cannot magically divine your thoughts, you will need to justify points that may be unclear or that may not immediately follow logically from one another.

MMOs can also be action RPGs, by the way, but I'm more interested here in knowing which part of this arbitrary distinction you are drawing is relevant to why the concept of endgame cannot apply to Warframe in particular.

But it's not your decision either, is the point. You are contradicting yourself from one post to another here.

Then why are you bringing it back up here?

That's not actually relativity.

So because DE released one update that doesn't exclusively cater towards veterans (and given the nature of Railjack, it does in fact cater to them still)... they never did or will? Explain how that makes sense.

Because they weren't good. This is coming across more as still being hung up on long-dead gaming features than making any sort of concrete statement on DE's current intent to implement endgame, which is visible through their unsuccessful attempts.

Putting aside how Trials and Solar Rails were shut down way longer than four updates ago... Kuva Liches and Railjack were in fact an attempt at giving high-end players something to sink their teeth into. At this point, I'm curious which game you're even referencing, given that you're clearly not talking about Warframe.

Given the circumstances and the comment you are responding to, this is projection at its most transparent. Even you know you've been called out on your behavior, and are alone in fighting a war that was lost before you even started.

It can, DE just need to find a formula that works. As it stands, they are at the very least committed to delivering endgame in some form, so pushing against that will get you nowhere.

Primed Chamber was not endgame, though, and both Arcanes and Railjack were criticized for being unrewarding and excessively grindy. You are very clearly illustrating the point I brought up in my first post on this thread, in that you are conflating challenge with tedium, and setting that as the sole defining factor of endgame. Once more, it seems the only reason you're convinced that endgame cannot possibly exist, or that DE is somehow moving against it when they've done the opposite, is that you don't seem to quite know what endgame even is, or should be.

Good, so start doing it.

That's very nice, now please point out how any of those factors are relevant to the question of endgame.

... which discussions? Where did I discuss endgame as a function of metagaming? It seems you are the one who is confused as to which person you're arguing against, and once again projecting your own insecurities.

Okay, but as said already, the nitty-gritty of the game's mechanics are now what appeal to new players in search of games with endgame. New players want games with endgame so that they feel like they have something to do that rewards the time investment they'd be about to put into said game. It's that simple.

How about you don't try to speak for players you clearly know nothing about and do not care for. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Interesting, I didn't know you worked at DE. Tell me, where did you get this detailed information on their production pipeline?

You clearly aren't, though, as you seem to be under the impression that spouting random nonsense will magically make it reality. Why else would you speak on DE's behalf as to what their priorities are when you clearly aren't very much in touch with their work?

You're right on that matter, though you certainly don't seem to want to be. Why else would you be trying to deny the very existence of endgame in video games?

That does not make what you said make any more sense. Care to explain yourself?

 

DEVSTREAM:

DE is implementing a difficult hard Star Chart starting from 150+ Level enemies. 

 

DE makes the first strong move in their chess game. Let see how this goes. I'm interested. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

DEVSTREAM:

DE is implementing a difficult hard Star Chart starting from 150+ Level enemies. 

 

DE makes the first strong move in their chess game. Let see how this goes. I'm interested. 

As am I. This is something they've already mentioned in previous dev streams, by the way, so hopefully after this you will change your argumentation in the face of evidence.

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9 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

This is something they've already mentioned in previous dev streams, by the way, so hopefully after this you will change your argumentation in the face of evidence.

Evidence speaks. 

A good start begins, something that I've waited for seven years is retaken. Let see DE's moves after this clever decision. If game play is reinforced more, people will stay in the game. At least we seasoned players will have a bench to work with and places to test our toolkit. A good beginning. This will force people to get into the game mechanics and deal with tough walks. 

It's a good decision in my opinion. 

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4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Then end game for a War Frame player is subjective. 

Endgame is subjective in general, it is not specifically subjective to WF.

Again, there is endgame and there is endgame game modes. This is the part you need to understand so you know which type of endgame you or others are looking for when you are discussing it. As I said, D3 has both, endgame starts the moment you start on a season in adventure mode, while the endgame game mode is isolated to the two rifts and something you cant really start properly until you are max level. Kinda like how PoE also lets you start out in endgame but without access to the specific endgame game modes. That is because in both D3 and PoE you sit down at the start of the season and decide that you need those specific items to clear that endgame game mode most efficiently that season with that class/build, and since you can obtain those items from level 1 you started on your endgame the moment you started playing.

 

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17 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Endgame is subjective in general, it is not specifically subjective to WF.

DE seems interested in pursuing a definition. They tuned their engines towards a good portion of the game that needs attention. Finally it is happening. We are going to guide efforts with sound recommendations improving and expanding their palette of ideas.

DE is grabbing the bull by the horns going directly to the problem. It's a smart move because it cascades on getting better Rivens, doing better builds and testing new material that justifies builds done by the youtube community and these partners like Grind Hard Squad and Distant Observer. 

We have a lot of ground to cover because I see feasible further moves. It is possible to talk about an end game mode or anything that keeps us veterans happy. DE is taking charge by improving some extrinsic. 

It's a welcome on my book. Enemies 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0. if we can work out those proposals to sound realizable levels the game can dip dive into new territory and keep growing while it retains the seasonal players. 

Quote

Again, there is endgame and there is endgame game modes.

Now we can have tough Arbitration and we we should insist on having tougher enemies in simulacrum. I would like to experience builds and test those on 5000 level enemies with other four frames. Test lab synergy is a thing that keeps me rolling in this game. It helps develop other games and understand different ways of thinking in game design. 

Simulacrum could get different locations so the enemy behaves with the map giving us a better accurate simulacrum. 

Quote

This is the part you need to understand so you know which type of endgame you or others are looking for when you are discussing it. As I said, D3 has both, endgame starts the moment you start on a season in adventure mode, while the endgame game mode is isolated to the two rifts and something you cant really start properly until you are max level. Kinda like how PoE also lets you start out in endgame but without access to the specific endgame game modes. That is because in both D3 and PoE you sit down at the start of the season and decide that you need those specific items to clear that endgame game mode most efficiently that season with that class/build, and since you can obtain those items from level 1 you started on your endgame the moment you started playing.

 

Once DE starts the process of looking for endgame. We need to establish a consensus witch ones. Up to this point the thread turns into proposals. DE changed the play field of discussion. I'll get busy posting feasible ideas without changing the game identity. We have to define the term and start from there. DE started with increase in shield armor health and hit point. Their old classic system. Now the interesting part would be how they struggle improving this system. 

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1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

You don't know how much I love to snipe those parts in them. I snipe too the nullifier droid bobble a lot on Corpus Lanka crews and Corpus Opticor crews, yes I've seen few with Opticor ^^. . 

:3

Indeed.

Nevertheless, it's uneccesary, because Mesa exists to instantly exterminate them on sight.

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

I'm a caster. I thought of that because I use Trinity too much. If enemies are impervious to these casts then Trinity is dead. 

Yes, that holds validity. 

Then, you agree that just negating casts eliminates Trinity.

There's also the fact this doesn't affect buffs - just like how at max alert the game spams out Shield Drones which give nullifiers bubbles to all and sundry, it disproportionately affects caster-based frames more. It's all-or-nothing, either caster frames are all-powerful, rendering entire gamemodes useless, or completely worthless because they're arbitrarily denied use of abilities.

The fact that these frames need their abilities arbitrarily denied for enemies to pose a threat is proof enough that the abilities themselves need to be changed, either in reducing their power or their spammability.

2 hours ago, Felsagger said:

That is one of the constraints why this game progress so slow. 

My approach only impacts the game play, enemies, level design and engagement mechanics. That reverberates on builds, mods, Rivens, selection of Pokemons, sorry frames and selection of load outs. 

It doesn't.

In the event that you basically take all the old content, all the old loot, and basically say 'this doesn't work on any new stuff', then you might as well have just taken it away entirely, or made a new game. Either the new stuff works on the old stuff, in which case the old stuff has been power creeped out of relevance, or it doesn't, at which point... they might as well be different games.

2 hours ago, Felsagger said:

That's exactly my point. Literally. The enemies needs work, somehow. 

I don't deny that.

What I do deny is the fact that they need work first. The rest of the game is broken - any enemies made or reworked under a broken system will inevitably wind up broken themselves. The old enemies were made under a system that was broken - we can't repeat that mistake.

2 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Building topology of curtain walls, cladding and selection of materials of course differs due to foundations capacity. But again the Tipology of Cathedral remains. Program of the building defines the tipology. 

And those changes ultimately means a radically different building.

Both of these buildings are considered 'Cathedrals', but I don't think anyone would say they look the same.

Spoiler

Saint Basil's Cathedral - Wikipedia

St Paul's Cathedral is finally getting a permanent accessible ...

You can't just put a building somewhere and expect it to fit. The environment it is in must determine the result - it is the same for any video game obstacle, and thus the same for any enemy.

2 hours ago, Felsagger said:

That is exactly the problem we have to solve. DE is immersed in many of these problems to the point that they opt to ignore them. 

They aren't ignoring them anymore.

Warframe Revised, whilst incomplete, was a major first step to enabling better game design. They've proactively balanced Railjack differently with a much more restrictive energy system, and Scott has indicated that more Revised updates are on the books.

Either way - we must solve the problems that the players cause before we can build something new.

2 hours ago, Felsagger said:

I never wanted to mention Hek because HE was part of what I call outstanding design. There should be more enemies like him instead of one. Imagine a set of Hek power armor variations or an army of two or three with good weapons. This doesn't have to happen in every stage, just in few stages where Hek armor appears as common modified enemies. 

Railjack and Liches are the future of this game. If Liches becomes enemies that appear frequently in two or three pairs in special missions I would be very happy. DE will win if they make more extrinsic the grinding parts of this game. 

On that we agree.

Well, not necessarily on the Army of Heks (He makes a good boss, but a boss fight does not a good mook make. Also, he's loud), but I take your point. More enemies with that philosophy.

2 hours ago, Felsagger said:

But I carefully see every aspect of the game. I've been here noticing good DE decisions too. The game will get better with the years. However the game at least must provide some extrinsic game play more often if they want to pour quality in it. 

Agreed.

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1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

DE is implementing a difficult hard Star Chart starting from 150+ Level enemies. 

 

DE makes the first strong move in their chess game. Let see how this goes. I'm interested. 

Under the old armour system and lacking shield-gating, I'd be worried (again, broken systems) but we don't need to worry about exponentially more spongey targets or cheap, hitscan oneshots anymore.

I'm interested.

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1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

Under the old armour system and lacking shield-gating, I'd be worried (again, broken systems) but we don't need to worry about exponentially more spongey targets or cheap, hitscan oneshots anymore.

I'm interested.

I just hope that rewards are appropriate. I don't want to see small credit caches, common mods, or anything like that. Otherwise, they have my attention, a great start with lots of promise and potential.

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5 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

I just hope that rewards are appropriate. I don't want to see small credit caches, common mods, or anything like that. Otherwise, they have my attention, a great start with lots of promise and potential.

They said something about cosmetics, ship decorations, that sort of thing.

Which, honestly, I don't mind. I don't mind having a trophy to show off that I can do something tough without needing to get astronomically stronger - after all, that'd defeat the purpose of the mode to some degree. Some kind of badge I can wear to show off to newer players that I've bested a version of the starchart that they're not even strong enough to start to attempt. One might call that elitist, and there IS a fine line between that and aspirational play, but that's something I'm interested in.

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After a full revision of the Star Chart the new recruits will experience a more coherent encounter with these hordes. Testing them would be more rewarding than before. Is a matter of time how far DE will go. But a smart decision is made. The work on a more solid core game mechanics makes wonders. It foster a solidity throughout the experience and different tasks feels different as it should. 

Observations on some levels that may improve without hampering the flow of the game. 

1. Better insertion points for the troops. Selecting better spawn points makes the enemy somehow believable. There could be teleportation coils like Star Gate SGI for certain troops. The troops could be deployed by gun ships with vertical ropes like 'rappelling descent'. They can be dropped by atmospheric drop pods. They could behave more military by marching in squad teams or marching more organized. Make their behavior a bit more military feel. You see them a lot. Why not see them more organized. They will still be the same Grineer. Damage system the same, increased level, same AI attacking and defending. 

2. Work on better 3d models of the grineer, they need to be a bit bigger like nine feet since they carry power armor and robotics. They are cybernetic clones. Their apparel should look more sophisticated. War Frames are detailed and many of their models are well thought out. Why not have more details on these troops models, work with a better Gorgon Skin. The current 3d artist modelers could add more features and increase the polygon number once we reach the PS5 and XBOX series X. A good reception of increased detail will make War Frame run the next generation without any trouble. 

3. This will not affect any game play but why not populate more Plains of Eidolons with more troops similar to an occupation. Bases looks empty and abandoned. Their presence should be massive. Would be nice to see in the Background or in the Sky a giant Galleon where some ships goes in and out of it. World details like these immerse me more into the lore of War Frame. These three suggestions works the same for Corpus. These two are different set of enemies but spawns, revision of the models and population of the levels doesn't hurt the game mechanics and the game play. It enriches the world a bit more. 

These doesn't touch A.I. , War Frame game play or the Damage system. Everything runs as it was but these details are feasible in my opinion.  

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1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

One might call that elitist

I think it's a healthy form of elitism, it helps get new players interested in something (if it's a cool looking cosmetic or a goofy item etc.).  You will always have those that think they're badass and super elite for having certain items, let them. However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't have unique rewards/cosmetics because of a minority that wants to feel elite.  The One Down mask for PD2 for example is a mask I hold dear, but I still enjoy giving Bonnie a beard, to each their own.

I am happy to see this new foot forward though with DE, it hasn't fully restored my faith in them, but it does give me a bit of hope for the future.

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5 hours ago, Felsagger said:

DEVSTREAM:

DE is implementing a difficult hard Star Chart starting from 150+ Level enemies. 

This isn't anything new.  Will it stop yawl screaming about "endgame"?  Probably not.  Will yawl come up with some excuse why it's the game's fault you don't like "difficulty"?  Probably.

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42 minutes ago, PatternistSlave said:

This isn't anything new.  Will it stop yawl screaming about "endgame"?  Probably not.  Will yawl come up with some excuse why it's the game's fault you don't like "difficulty"?  Probably.

The move is made by the developers. I know, that such move is not new. They are trying to work with sustainability because they don't have enough offerings for the next releases. We have to capture this opportunity and applaud them for the attempt. 

The key is the encouragement for the developers run these revisions and we start playing the game more often so the get the right message. If we cut them off with whiny demands they will probably back off. We don't want that. At least they are deep diving into the problem. 

This is why I postponed my arguments for another occasion. This time we let them cross the bridge and push them with positive reinforcement. I don't want this initiative halt because of possible harsh critiques. 

I know there should be more than being just thick turtle shells with higher hit point level. That is a simple tweak and few code lines for it. The mere fact that they wave flags with this is to tell us that they care. How long? We need to see. At this point they are way too weak for more bad moves. This one was a strong one. They don't want the bickering and bad news of seasoned players. They are behaving by throwing us few bones to shew on. 

I'm fully aware what they are doing. I'm simply zipping my mouth for now and wait for the results. If the results are good we continue pushing proposal for quality of life attributes on the game and more fundamental core gaming with enemy designs. 

 

LeBklingKing threw out interesting propositions, let me quote them here. This is beginning to sound like the first steps towards "endgame" material. 

"

  • Higher-level Capture missions could have players Capture more than one VIP from across the map. You know how in Spy missions that if you lose all 3 data terminals, you lose the mission? Something like that.
  • Higher-level Exterminate missions will have a lot more mini boss-type enemies thrown around when a certain percentage of enemies is killed (like a Lynx or Hyena(s) in a Corpus mission)
  • Higher-level Defense missions could have you defend several objectives at the same time (imagine a game mode where there's a platoon of civilians that the Tenno are going to try and defend)
  • Higher-level Mobile Defense missions could act like Disruption where during time thresholds (3 minute defense, every 1 minute, for example), there's a Demolisher or Demolyst (i forget the name) that takes huge chunks out of the terminal's health "
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1 minute ago, PatternistSlave said:

What about Sorties, Arbitrations, Disruptions, ESO, Eidolons, Orbs, Liches, and Railjack didn't?

That will take a bit more of time. Careful planning is needed for these. 

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11 hours ago, Vit0Corleone said:

This is a wrong assessment. We are talking about introducing new "challenging" content, not about old content.

I recommend checking out old videos of players hunting down Eidolons at the time of release. There was no "one shot", Teralyst alone took like half an hour.

Of course, eventually they becomes easy, as we grow in power, as meta is established, as people learn new player skill sets and get experienced at it.

And see why we need them introducing new "challenging" content over and over again. Of course eventually things become easier but have you seen people reaching one shot level in other place other than warframe? Even with the most meta gear and skills, I doubt you can reach one shot level on endgame like warframe

And that's why we need to put balance first or we'll have similar situation where DE make us grind from start again before reaching one shot level again, then people scream DE need to introduce new "challenging" content again

Let's say they balance so no more one shot even with chroma/riven sniper/void strike, I believe even old content like eidolon will stay challenging and hard even with the most meta equipment you bring, or you prefer more enemies with systems people dismiss as "cheap tricks" because warframe is not allowed to have them while other games are a-okay for some reason?

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10 hours ago, Tinklzs said:

Star Wars The Force Unleashed I & II is the only game I've played where the protagonist is a powerhouse and yet there are enemy types that are immune to certain skills/abilities, but it doesn't feel cheap, because they're vulnerable to at least one or two other skills. In the 2nd game there are acolytes that are completely immune to force abilities, yet are vulnerable to lightsaber attacks, some enemies require combos of both saber+force attacks to open them up to normal abilities.  This isn't complicated or in-depth but shows that even powerhouse OP demi-god characters can have challenge, and enemies can be designed in such a way to change the flow of battle or be used as weapons themselves.

We have Wolf of Saturn Six being immune to abilities, yet vulnerable to normal weapon damage and what do we get? It's a cheap enemy where it's just a walking sandbag by a portion of this community. Even melee nullifier in Jupiter being able to run a bit faster than other corpus makes people cry so what do we say?

10 hours ago, Tinklzs said:

Prototype (I haven't played, but seen Whitelight's video on it on youtube explaining it in great detail.  Prototype I & II are great examples of a powerhouse that meets enemies that can give them a challenge or change the flow of gameplay enough to make you have to think on your feet. There are already areas of Warframe that new players simply won't play, and older more experienced/geared players too, even if they're overgeared for it (like eidolons, ESO, Arbitrations what have you). I personally like disruption, but have seen many here who don't like it, to each their own.

I've played prototype 2, and see what you're fighting, another infected with similar power, speed, and toughness. If we want to make challenge or change the flow, that means enemies would need massive buff, starting from enemies not being stunned over the most trivial thing, having abilities that able to slow you down, etc.

Normal gameplay? You're fighting usual blackwatch and military where a punch is instant death and fighting infected like hydra, juggernaut and such is pretty rare unless you're doing things involving them

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4 hours ago, 844448 said:

We have Wolf of Saturn Six being immune to abilities, yet vulnerable to normal weapon damage and what do we get? It's a cheap enemy where it's just a walking sandbag by a portion of this community. Even melee nullifier in Jupiter being able to run a bit faster than other corpus makes people cry so what do we say?

 

I like this point. There are lots of games where certain enemies are immune to normal strategies or weapons. Maybe the enemy briefly exposes their weak point and the player needs to adapt, but when this kind of enemy shows up in Warframe many players criticise it as lazy design for some reason. I like how Liches develop more resistances as they grow in strength. Players have to consider their weapon build each time they go out to hunt them, and it's a gradual thing.

 

5 hours ago, Felsagger said:

LeBklingKing threw out interesting propositions, let me quote them here. This is beginning to sound like the first steps towards "endgame" material. 

"

  • Higher-level Capture missions could have players Capture more than one VIP from across the map. You know how in Spy missions that if you lose all 3 data terminals, you lose the mission? Something like that.
  • Higher-level Exterminate missions will have a lot more mini boss-type enemies thrown around when a certain percentage of enemies is killed (like a Lynx or Hyena(s) in a Corpus mission)
  • Higher-level Defense missions could have you defend several objectives at the same time (imagine a game mode where there's a platoon of civilians that the Tenno are going to try and defend)
  • Higher-level Mobile Defense missions could act like Disruption where during time thresholds (3 minute defense, every 1 minute, for example), there's a Demolisher or Demolyst (i forget the name) that takes huge chunks out of the terminal's health "

Quoting this because I like the sound of some of these ideas. More challenging variants of existing mission types sounds good to me. Capture missions are in an especially weird place because they are basically speed runs for super quick rewards, which makes them really good in a game about getting rewards, but also disappointing because the process of getting the reward isn't rewarding when you can do it in under 2 minutes. It actually makes every other mission type feel like a chore, I usually choose relic capture over defense or survival for that reason. Hopefully a better capture mission would give more, better rewards worth the time spent in the mission.

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14 hours ago, Felsagger said:

DE seems interested in pursuing a definition. They tuned their engines towards a good portion of the game that needs attention. Finally it is happening. We are going to guide efforts with sound recommendations improving and expanding their palette of ideas.

DE is grabbing the bull by the horns going directly to the problem. It's a smart move because it cascades on getting better Rivens, doing better builds and testing new material that justifies builds done by the youtube community and these partners like Grind Hard Squad and Distant Observer. 

We have a lot of ground to cover because I see feasible further moves. It is possible to talk about an end game mode or anything that keeps us veterans happy. DE is taking charge by improving some extrinsic. 

It's a welcome on my book. Enemies 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0. if we can work out those proposals to sound realizable levels the game can dip dive into new territory and keep growing while it retains the seasonal players. 

Now we can have tough Arbitration and we we should insist on having tougher enemies in simulacrum. I would like to experience builds and test those on 5000 level enemies with other four frames. Test lab synergy is a thing that keeps me rolling in this game. It helps develop other games and understand different ways of thinking in game design. 

Simulacrum could get different locations so the enemy behaves with the map giving us a better accurate simulacrum. 

Once DE starts the process of looking for endgame. We need to establish a consensus witch ones. Up to this point the thread turns into proposals. DE changed the play field of discussion. I'll get busy posting feasible ideas without changing the game identity. We have to define the term and start from there. DE started with increase in shield armor health and hit point. Their old classic system. Now the interesting part would be how they struggle improving this system. 

They need to pursue the endgame as a game mode definition, the other one we have more than enough of and it starts early on in the game since it provides us with so many goals and no definitive path or hand holding.

No idea who those two are nor do I have any need whatsoever to follow builds. Granted the new "hard" mode will definently class in as endgame mode if it has rewards exclusive to it and not just more star chart loot handed out for being of a higher level. Same thing if it will grant bigger piles of say Kuva, then you'll have kuva grind as an endgame activity that can be both ground out in normal missions at lower efficiency aswell as in an endgame mode for higher efficiency. The levels they'll provide will certainly not cascade the need for rivens though, since it is still fairly low level, especially with the new scaling. Slap on +100 levels and most star chart missions start at 150, the more durable non-eximus units still die near instantly. 

The new difficulty option badly needs more new and unique units. They already have them available for corpus and they could tweak some of the grineer units aswell, like ghouls. The level increase alone is a nice addition and start, but it wont solve the longterm play because it is just run of the mill trash we face.

I'd say if they expand on the star chart difficulty setting we really wouldnt need a more advanced Sim. We could use an unlocked level setting in there where MR doesnt matter so people can test as they wish. But then if they manage to add a good difficulty scaling to the star chart we can use that as live action testing so sim can stay as it is as a simple room where you just test dps.

We dont need a consensus on which one. Both are needed for longevity in a game, you need personal endgame goals aswell as content design as a specific endgame mode. The increased levels is in reality enough if it also comes with specific rewards and a higher yield aswell. That would make it clock in as endgame mode. However, that approach is a beaten dead horse that every single game goes with and it gets boring. Atleast it isnt as bad as say Destiny2, Anthem or Martyr, where you have power levels that more or less always match the mobs so the difficulty never really increases. In Martyr for instance you may sit at 500PL and face 700PL mobs, this is the exact same as if you progress to 2000PL and face 2200PL mobs. And iirc both anthem and destiny2 run on very similar mechanics. It gives the illusion that you progress when you really dont.

What WF could use is the level increase and then have mobs further defined by actual skills by introducing more active skills to them as levels increase along with shorter cooldowns for their active skills aswell. Imagine nullifiers if they only gave you a short window to take them down after the shield dome breaks, or a Nox that charges constantly while shooting blobs at you when his fish bowl breaks. Bombards that switch up their approach, going from slow homing rockets to fast shooting/moving rockets without lock on that they spread out instead in hopes of the tenno should evade into them. Maybe even have them follow up with a homing rocket as the tenno tries to avoid the initial barrage. Giving heavy gunners the option to run fast and shoot at the same time. Making the deployable grineer shields indestructible, larger and with an opening the grineer behind it can shoot through, possibly also making grineer within x meters immune to AoE effects. The lesser units could be given supressive fire which reduces the accuracy for the player's weapons, much like how the negative stat on Heavy Caliber works. Or attacks that force stops bullet jumps if you are hit mid air. Things to make the useful and annoying.

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20 minutes ago, Nehra96 said:

Classic 101 for clickbait threads...

Endgame

Content draught

DE bad

Thank you DE posts

etc. etc. 

DE pretty much is an indie developer that survived with this tiny game War Frame. It's an accessory game with RNGs and grind Walls. They where lucky to stay relevant seven years doing the same stuff. A weirdo game with a story of Pockemon going grasshopper and Indy 500 with unrelated topics went far over seven years. At least they held together as a small Canadian development team. They are not that big in comparison to Santa Monica Studio or Guerrilla Games. Probably their aspirations are these. They are not that interested in the big leagues like going into length over this game. 

War Frame is a MEME accessory game. You take it for what it is. I'll play it from time to time and enjoy another take on the VG industry. I don't expect much like Red Redemption 2, Horizon Zero Dawn or any other production. Try to add other games like Cyberpunk 77 or TLoU 2 if needed. You could pick the Dark Soul series and Bloodborne or Sekiro. DE reach is not that deep or that great. This is a loot shoot the horde build the gear farming game. Don't expect any great story out of it. Just a pseudo sand box for multiple game play style, that is it. 

I go with the policy of zero expectations out of it. This is why is not good to place all the eggs in one basket. Play other games, have other hobbies, add more ways in your fun hours. My only contact with this game are 15 minutes to one hour one or two days per week. The rest is played on chess or any other game I have not finished. For on going fun the classic PVP suffice if any. This is how I stay off the War Frame Bingo chart. ^^. 

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8 hours ago, 844448 said:

Even melee nullifier in Jupiter being able to run a bit faster than other corpus makes people cry so what do we say?

Because this would be under the 'new' hardmode that DE mentioned, I don't think that would be such a big issue. 

8 hours ago, 844448 said:

If we want to make challenge or change the flow, that means enemies would need massive buff, starting from enemies not being stunned over the most trivial thing, having abilities that able to slow you down, etc.

My suggestion is instead of immunity they get a resistance that caps at 40-50% (as a rough number, obviously not final). I'd say 60-70% of enemies should be resistant by 15-30%, with 20% of enemies being 40-45% resistant. Mini-boss enemies (wolf, lich and "insert new miniboss glow like eximus enemies here") would be either immune to CC or highly resistant (60-70%).

4 hours ago, TheMostFrench said:

More challenging variants of existing mission types sounds good to me.

To add to this, new move sets, higher aggression (especially for melee units, maybe some more parkour abilities for them?).  

44 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

The new difficulty option badly needs more new and unique units. They already have them available for corpus and they could tweak some of the grineer units aswell, like ghouls.

A neat idea I thought of reading this sentence. What if you do a survival in Eris where it starts as corpus/grineer only, then shifts (due to infested coming out out of the panels, etc) to infested/faction hybrid? With this bringing amalgams (and with it new enemies). Plus I think those two infested enemies that showed up during the 2nd nightwave story (forgot their names) should be permanent 'high level' infested. So they'd be sprinkled in with the ancients and other medium-high level unique units. 

Again, I really like the idea of old units getting new move sets / abilities (to help facelift old enemies) but also like the idea of new units too because it would be a symbol of "you've reached THIS level, get ready for some challenge/pain/whatever". Similar to what black dozers used to be in Deathwish in Payday 2. 

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6 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

A neat idea I thought of reading this sentence. What if you do a survival in Eris where it starts as corpus/grineer only, then shifts (due to infested coming out out of the panels, etc) to infested/faction hybrid? With this bringing amalgams (and with it new enemies). Plus I think those two infested enemies that showed up during the 2nd nightwave story (forgot their names) should be permanent 'high level' infested. So they'd be sprinkled in with the ancients and other medium-high level unique units. 

Again, I really like the idea of old units getting new move sets / abilities (to help facelift old enemies) but also like the idea of new units too because it would be a symbol of "you've reached THIS level, get ready for some challenge/pain/whatever". Similar to what black dozers used to be in Deathwish in Payday 2. 

Dynamic survival mode sounds like a wonderful idea! They could even make a mode that shifts in the middle of it "hive survival" where you need to take out the hives to stop infested from spawning for a while. Maybe have a large influx of juggernaughts or the NW-whatever-their-name-was infested spawning the longer the hives are active.

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Yes, that sounds like a good idea. 

Evolving survival waves of enemies where some situations among them happens. First it starts with Grineer, then Corpus appears fighting the Grinner and of course the infested comes in and of course the corrupted. The infested looks like a caricature tho, this one needs a good remake. Other than that the idea works perfectly well. 

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