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Why we cant have endgame content


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1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

For better or worse casual, sporadics and newbies are the target for service games in general. Warframe is no exception. Any game that is devised as a service will end if there is end game and fixed meta. Veterans generate less money than the set of new players. As other people said before the casual, sporadics and newbies plays more the game because they want to get good hence more revenue for the company. Veterans rarely stays in the game regularly. 

For end game, yes, of course there are other challenging experiences like Dark Soul Series and Bloodborne. This is not a game suited for endgame. If that happens DE runs out of business. Search challenges elsewhere. I did that long time ago. 

Umm most MMOs have endgame content. What are you talking about??

 

I'm curious about solid details on spending habits either way.

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If you think bullet sponges and wasting players time is good game design, you're a bigger threat to this game than those "casuals" that you rag on about. Also, out of your goddamn mind. So, allow me to take a page out of your elitist book and tell you this: Take your elitist bulls*it elsewhere. As much as I rag on about people wanting challenge, at least they want something that could potentially benefit the game. You guys wanting bullet sponges are just plain stupid and insulting. To the community. To the devs. To the game. So either learn the difference between good game design and bullet sponges, or go away!

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3 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

How often have you failed a Veil Proxima mission before the latest changes?

Right, that question isn't loaded. Curious how many star chart missions you have failed since creating your character tho. Failing something != it being too dificult. We learn from failure and regroup.

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vor 13 Minuten schrieb Vespilan:

I have played it before the update and it was in a good spot, bugs aside. Now it has been made easier, I do not need to play it to conclude from info A) Enemies' HP and armor have been nerfed and info B) friend telling me seeker volley lets you finish missions in no time that the nerf was unnecessary.

Seeker Volley was absolute garbage even on the test server (I've tried it there), it needed the damage buff to compete with void hole, which was already tearing through veil fighter hordes as a Tycho Seeker Mk3 or a munitions vortex already one shot everything. The real reason everything is faster now is because much more enemies spawn at once. You would have noticed that if you played it yourself. There was no skill in buying void hole from someone and then turboing through Veil missions, so nothing of value was lost in the EHP reduction, quite the opposite we gained more options and playstyles to engage them.

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Just now, Vespilan said:

Never.

Sounds like your gear is cheesy af. Rather than making enemies with millions more health to suit the imbalances you feel obligated to exploit, how about they remove a portion of that OP damage reliability that's making your game boring? Sound reasonable?

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2 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

If you think bullet sponges and wasting players time is good game design, you're a bigger threat to this game than those "casuals" that you rag on about. Also, out of your goddamn mind. So, allow me to take a page out of your elitist book and tell you this: Take your elitist bulls*it elsewhere. As much as I rag on about people wanting challenge, at least they want something that could potentially benefit the game. You guys wanting bullet sponges are just plain stupid and insulting. To the community. To the devs. To the game. So either learn the difference between good game design and bullet sponges, or go away!

 

1 minute ago, Drachnyn said:

Seeker Volley was absolute garbage even on the test server (I've tried it there), it needed the damage buff to compete with void hole, which was already tearing through veil fighter hordes as a Tycho Seeker Mk3 or a munitions vortex already one shot everything. The real reason everything is faster now is because much more enemies spawn at once. You would have noticed that if you played it yourself. There was no skill in buying void hole from someone and then turboing through Veil missions, so nothing of value was lost in the EHP reduction, quite the opposite we gained more options and playstyles to engage them.

The same glyph with the same rage. You two twins?

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vor 3 Minuten schrieb Vespilan:

Never.

Exactly. So the truth is that it didn't go from challenging to easy. It went from "so easy you never failed a mission" to "so easy you never failed a mission".

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If you want Endgame. Play Destiny. Warframe is a casual grind horde looter shooter game if DE steps out of that territory the casual majority will start a riot or threaten to quit the game because guess what? They’re the ones who mostly keeps this game alive.
 

The only way to have challenge is to create your own. Be it no mods, no bullet jump, random loadout, etc.

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Just now, SpicyDinosaur said:

 

The same glyph with the same rage. You two twins?

Just learning from the best, most sarcastic AI in existence. Wanna join us?

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15 minutes ago, Vespilan said:

So you're saying I should make myself artificially weaker because the game doesn't manage to supply enough of a challenge in a gamemode that was meant to be the peak of current """endgame""" (NOTE THE QUOTATION MARKS)? Yeah, no, that is plain stupid.

Warframe does this thing where it will always let you shred millions of enemies in a single mission but will rarely put you up against something challanging. By challenging I don't mean challenging to gear but challenging to player skill. Railjack is challanging to player skill; There are so many things to manage and look out for, theres always action going on both outside and inside the ship. Nerfing enemies, making them fodder, leads to reducing action, by consequence stress, engagement and challenge. It is a stupid notion that makes potentially engaging gameplay just another braindead grind isle.

The game cannot supply challenge towards the players anymore even if the devs try their hardest. We’ve honestly become so powerful that when DE try to add challenge it backfires since it can be either completed insanely fast and/or can be easily trivialized without effort. The only way for the devs to add genuine challenge to players are to nerf everything that is overpowered and that trivializes content. Would it cause an uproar from the community? More than likely, but them nerfing things is the only way for them to add challenge back into the game.

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1 minute ago, Gabbynaru said:

Just learning from the best, most sarcastic AI in existence. Wanna join us?

Actually I couldn't figure out how to get a glyph from shy when I paid for a month with Twitch Prime. I would def like one if you have advice!

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3 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

Exactly. So the truth is that it didn't go from challenging to easy. It went from "so easy you never failed a mission" to "so easy you never failed a mission".

And that should be a problem for something that is advertised as endgame content, hence why we are here

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1 minute ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

The game cannot supply challenge towards the players anymore even if the devs try their hardest. We’ve honestly become so powerful that when DE try to add challenge it backfires since it can be either completed insanely fast and/or can be easily trivialized without effort. The only way for the devs to add genuine challenge to players are to nerf everything that is overpowered and that trivializes content. Would it cause an uproar from the community? More than likely, but them nerfing things is the only way for them to add challenge back into the game.

Could not agree more

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Just now, xXDeadsinxX said:

DE try to add challenge it backfires since it can be either completed insanely fast and/or can be easily trivialized without effort.

Or we get the Wolf of Saturn Six, which was the absolute worst thing I have ever seen in any game, an invading bullet sponge that on Defense/Interception missions traps the players until they slog through the massive Damage Resistance sponge he was.

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vor 5 Minuten schrieb Vespilan:

And that should be a problem for something that is advertised as endgame content, hence why we are here

Yes, we are here, in yet another thread where someone claims that something he never failed at was "challenging" because it used to take longer.

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4 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Actually I couldn't figure out how to get a glyph from shy when I paid for a month with Twitch Prime. I would def like one if you have advice!

Well, considering I won mine on twitter of all places, I don't think I'm the right person for advice. But hey, her patreon has glyph giveways even at the 1$ level, so you might wanna roll the dice there?

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Causals make up the most in gaming overall. its what put food in DE's stomachs and keep the servers alive. If you want challenge in warframe. I recommend solo games with Arbies or Mot if you want a more "classic" endgame. I like arbies more TBH because of the rule of death. also try other games. 

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2 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Or we get the Wolf of Saturn Six, which was the absolute worst thing I have ever seen in any game, an invading bullet sponge that on Defense/Interception missions traps the players until they slog through the massive Damage Resistance sponge he was.

Or solve the developer puzzle and carry a Rad+Crit weapon at all times, rendering the encounter completely trivial..... aaaand no more less poorly designed

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb Vespilan:

And that should be a problem for something that is advertised as endgame content, hence why we are here

But you said it was in a good spot earlier, now you acknowledge that it wasnt challenging from the start. Doesnt that make this thread entirely pointless then? Railjack was also primarily advertised as connecting the game as a whole.

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1 minute ago, Oreades said:

Or solve the developer puzzle and carry a Rad+Crit weapon at all times

You forgot to mention bringing a Kavat and Sarpa to get rid of the obnoxious armor since he was Status/(most)Ability/Headshot immune.

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2 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Umm most MMOs have endgame content. What are you talking about??

 

I'm curious about solid details on spending habits either way.

 

DE will not give you the Gaussian distribution of such curve with accurate numbers. No company will explain you how much money these users spent throughout their mastery rank. Such information is not public. Common sense applies here as other users explained. The target of this game are the people with greater probability to stay. The stick and carrot is not aimed at the Veterans that knows how to behave and go through the content. The aim is centered on the acquisition of new players and the retention of these players up to their maturation of being veterans.  

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2 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Or we get the Wolf of Saturn Six, which was the absolute worst thing I have ever seen in any game, an invading bullet sponge that on Defense/Interception missions traps the players until they slog through the massive Damage Resistance sponge he was.

I never fought The Wolf of Saturn Six myself, but from what I’ve saw, it didn’t necessarily look challenging or even intriguing to fight to say the least. Just shoot him for a long time and he’s dead. Not interesting nor challenging to be honest. It’s starting to get to a point in Warframe where the devs have to add more HP and armor to enemies for us to have “challenge” but that is more annoying and less interesting than having challenge. Would be nice for DE to change their philosophy of the game and nerf things to gain a balance in the game again, but that’s just me of course. 

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Just now, Felsagger said:

 

DE will not give you the Gaussian distribution of such curve with accurate numbers. No company will explain you how much money these users spent throughout their mastery rank. Such information is not public. Common sense applies here as other users explained. The target of this game are the people with greater probability to stay. The stick and carrot is not aimed at the Veterans that knows how to behave and go through the content. The aim is centered on the acquisition of new players and the retention of these players up to their maturation of being veterans.  

I think this is somewhat presumptuous with anything but a few peoples' personal opinions to go by.

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il y a 15 minutes, Vespilan a dit :

So you're saying I should make myself artificially weaker because the game doesn't manage to supply enough of a challenge in a gamemode that was meant to be the peak of current """endgame""" (NOTE THE QUOTATION MARKS)? Yeah, no, that is plain stupid.
 

You're missing the point. This mode has a ship which can and should be accessed by four players.
The condition of failure in this mode can be either when all players died after spending all their Revives OR when the ship blows up.

This means that your entire squad needs the ship to keep floating until the end of mission or else no one get cookies.
This means that when you alter your ship's gear, your altering the difficulty of the entire squad. It's the only game mode where the host is being given so much power and freedom on purpose.

Warframe was ALWAYS a game with RPG elements, gear and builds to counter a specific mission type and faction. This RPG side of the game lets Alot of players in the game, where planning will carry them and solve their issues instead of relying on the environment and smart placement.
It has always been the case.

Currently with this update, guess what ? Gear has been made easy. Surprise ! It means the whole RPG side of railjack is now highly exploitable.
But you know what ? It's fine. Because it's your ship, your rules, your difficulty to setup. You have no idea how glad I am that I am not forced to run your << Strongest Meta build >>.

Also side note, those other avionics that are not meta, are pretty fun to use while also rewarding more resources and intrinsinc.

Get Revo Reducer, less revolite used means more repair, meaning more intrinsinc.
Get Battle Forge, double the amount of craft and XP from each forge session.
Get Deep Hold, enlarge forge capacity by 60%, which also synergize with Engineer perks. Giving the entire squad even more resources.

See we're not just running empty slot here, we're getting rewarded for setting a higher difficulty.

But yeah, we are stupid for customizing our games to have the most fun while you're here complaining about game being too easy instead of fixing the issues in your own party.

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