Ash blade storm to work SIMILAR to peacemaker to achieve ease of use for consoles

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

4 minutes ago, Wolfdoggie said:

Yeah, I don't which is why he's shelfed for better frames.

"using his 4 was just a waste of DPS even on single targets when I could just keep meleeing them for more than it could ever do. Guns and Melees will always outperform the waste of time marking mechanic, there's absolutly 0 value in it, wether it's low lvl or high level content."

Once again: we know the game only needs Revenant and Saryn, but that's not the point. Multiple frames with multiple playstyles exist. 

Edit: and multiple weapon playstyles exist

Edited May 4, 2020 by (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu

[Wolfdoggie]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

"using his 4 was just a waste of DPS even on single targets when I could just keep meleeing them for more than it could ever do. Guns and Melees will always outperform the waste of time marking mechanic, there's absolutly 0 value in it, wether it's low lvl or high level content."

Once again: we know the game only needs Revenant and Saryn, but that's not the point. Multiple frames with multiple playstyles exist. 

Edit: and multiple weapon playstyles exist

Yes, and Ash has a playstyle that will never be needed for anything, other than being Loki with higher armor without his cc.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Wolfdoggie

[DorkulusDaddum]

Ash isn't the issue in the game. He's actually a good Frame.

The issue is the other nuke frames.

How about nerfing the others, Instead of balancing the game around insta-kill mechanics?

I'm not sure why everyone just feels Warframes should be able to spooge an entire map of enemies by banging their head on the keyboard.

Edit: I would actually prefer Ash to have a "sleep" 4 rather than a nuke 4
 

Edited May 4, 2020 by RamRaid

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

3 minutes ago, Wolfdoggie said:

Yes, and Ash has a playstyle that will never be needed for anything, other than being Loki with higher armor without his cc.

Once again. Different playstyles exist.

It doesnt matter what you think is "needed".

And needed for what? Please describe the scenarios apparently only all of us should be playing without Ash?

Also, why did I just carry 2 people in a Tier 3 sortie with Ash?

[Wolfdoggie]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Once again. Different playstyles exist.

It doesnt matter what you think is "needed".

And needed for what? Please describe the scenarios apparently only all of us should be playing without Ash?

Also, why did I just carry 2 people in a Tier 3 sortie with Ash?

Not enough information available to provide an answer. Maybe they were bored or new, sorties aren't exactly difficult for most of the community. You would have carried harder on anyone else though.

[ES-Flinter]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Void_Ocelot:

I don't think we are talking about the same ability. So yeah...really. Ash as to target each enemy 3 times directly. Mesa spins the camera. Admittedly you can wiggle the cursor a bit. But, even that is more interactive than current state Mesa. All of this is in parallel running a combo build.

We are talking about the same ability. Both Mesa ans Ash just need the higher Ground, a shaking hand and someone, who know when it makes sense to reactivate the ability.

And if you don't want to believe me. just look what two other already said.

Spoiler

vor 3 Stunden schrieb SenorClipClop:

Peacemaker is a brain-dead ability, though. Press one button, swing your mouse (or joystick) around, here's your medal. Whether it's more or less brain-dead than other things in the game is debatable, but that debate doesn't change this fact.

This doesn't mean Mesa or her pew-pews are problematic, and it doesn't mean they need nerfing. But if you were to defend a stance that Mesa is well-designed, you'd have a steep uphill battle ahead of you.

 

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Acersecomic:

It's not stressful to me. I like it. And btw, you don't have to aim it carefully, you just shake all over the screen as if you're under the shower. He doesn't have to hide, hiding only reduces the cost per strike.

And sniper rifles can be very efficiently be used in combat without being a Battlefield camper sniper. Go in there and let loose, I do and it is fun. It's not Bramma, but it still kills fast and efficiently.

I'm honestly confused... by reading your posts... are you a troll or just so full of wrong through ignorance of lack of skill.

 

 

[CaptainMinty]

12 minutes ago, Wolfdoggie said:

Guns and Melees will always outperform the waste of time marking mechanic, there's absolutely 0 value in it, whether it's low level or high level content.

Aight, so, by this logic, a significant number of frames this game has to offer have absolutely zero value. A majority of frames cannot output the same damage a gun or melee ever could. My Vectis Prime far outweighs any power I typically use in terms of DPS, making only Saryn and Mesa in my current frame arsenal remotely useful in terms of damage with that logic. Just because Ash doesn't obliterate a room the instant he walks in like Mesa does doesn't mean he's utterly useless. His fourth works fine. I've never had it not do enough for the Sorties. His three is his biggest fault. You're signing off an entire frame because he isn't as powerful as you want him to be. There's a difference between being just alright, and downright useless. Just ask people who love Vauban. After CC died that poor frame had actually been useless for ages. Least he has some semblance of it back. He went from a king to a literal garbage back. Miss me with this absolute zero value. You're exaggerating immensely.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

8 minutes ago, Wolfdoggie said:

Not enough information available to provide an answer. Maybe they were bored or new, sorties aren't exactly difficult for most of the community. You would have carried harder on anyone else though.

You provided a blanket statement saying he isn't useful at all. Your words. I provided an example where he was useful for 1 whole content.

I can even use him for more than a sortie. Nuts huh.

[DroopingPuppy]

40 minutes ago, Acersecomic said:

Because I want to use a sniper rifle and I'm good at it. It is called a sniper rifle, it can zoom in, and I enjoy using snipers due to extremely high damage but still require me to aim instead of fire Bramma in a general direction.

Also, Ash isn't a dedicated sniper. They just bundled Vectis with his stuff. You think Titania is a shotgun girl? Why did we get Dethcube with Atlas, is he a summoner frame? Nonsense connections.

The last paragraph is just beyond troll, it goes into ogre territory.

Sir. Even if you actually made it, it does not means that most people are able to do the same at ease. In fact it is just terrible.

[Acersecomic]

8 minutes ago, DroopingPuppy said:

Sir. Even if you actually made it, it does not means that most people are able to do the same at ease. In fact it is just terrible.

Then it is not for you.

[Wolfdoggie]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

You provided a blanket statement saying he isn't useful at all. Your words. I provided an example where he was useful for 1 whole content.

I can even use him for more than a sortie. Nuts huh.

I dunno anything about your team or what they were doing so the question isn't answerable. 

But since Ash is a weeb frame so deep he could receive a ninja-run animation at any moment you should understand this: If you're an amazing WF player, which I'm sure you are, you're like Rock Lee from Naruto training with supernaturally heavy weights on your limbs at all times. When you hit a wall you cant overcome, you remove those weights and end up faster and stronger than anything anyone has ever seen. Those weights being removed symbolize switching current-state-Ash to a different frame.

Spoiler

Although Rock Lee still lost anyways so eh. 

 

[DroopingPuppy]

2 minutes ago, Acersecomic said:

Then it is not for you.

But you ignore the fact that make it easier does not hurt you either.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

4 minutes ago, Wolfdoggie said:

I dunno anything about your team or what they were doing so the question isn't answerable. 

But since Ash is a weeb frame so deep he could receive a ninja-run animation at any moment you should understand this: If you're an amazing WF player, which I'm sure you are, you're like Rock Lee from Naruto training with supernaturally heavy weights on your limbs at all times. When you hit a wall you cant overcome, you remove those weights and end up faster and stronger than anything anyone has ever seen. Those weights being removed symbolize switching current-state-Ash to a different frame.

  Hide contents

Although Rock Lee still lost anyways so eh. 

 

....lmao...well I guess you simply dont like Ash then....I didnt know you hated him so passionately. 

[Wolfdoggie]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

....lmao...well I guess you simply dont like Ash then....I didnt know you hated him so passionately. 

He went from my #1 most used and favorite, and the one who rescued my Tenno from Lua, to my biggest disappointment in the entire game. 

Aside from Hydroid being ignored for 6 years.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Wolfdoggie

[Acersecomic]

31 minutes ago, DroopingPuppy said:

But you ignore the fact that make it easier does not hurt you either.

What? It's already easy. What would you have it done? Reverted back to the Press 4 to win button like it used to be? Have snipers auto-lock or whatnot? What?

No. Making things easier would take the already non-existing difficulty from Warframe and reduce it even further. There is no need to make anything easier. Making it easier would hurt me because it would make it completely and absolutely trivial and not interesting.

There are changes that affect everyone and those have to have only one version and having multiples could be harmful. There are changes that can have toggles like full-axis archwing, legacy colors etc or augments to remove disruptive passives that are a choice and wouldn't interfere with anyone's gameplay.

[-AiLuoLi-]

12 hours ago, ES-Flinter said:

 

No, no, no and again NO!!!

Did one of you even once used Ash, when he was able to kill anything in a radius of 30m from almost any position? Did you know what for a pain it was, when you joined a spy, Assasination, exterminate, rescue, defense, mobile defense or any other mission and you were judged, because you didn't spam Bs 24/7? I'm happy that Ash isn't a press4towin frame anymore. Very happy. I'm in the near of of 1,5k hours with my Ash and I can tell you, that the time was the worst I ever had with him. I simply couldn't enjoy my frame just because the others didn't allow it me.

Now it's only Mesa and Saryn. And I feel sad for everyone who mains them. I know that feeling of not being allowed to play your frame in your own (unique) way, because everyone want from you to kill everything with one button.

last but not least I'm still for a complete rework for Ash. His problems starts with his questionable tanky stats and ends with the fact, that his fourth ability can simple be stuck into his third ability (hold the button), because they are almost the same.

Obviously I did, the old Ash was the best frame I've ever used. If someone wants a certain frame in their squad, they obviously wants what the frame does best. Don't tell them you're Mesa/DPS and proceed to never press 4. Tell them you're not a dps Mesa and be done with it. If you're talking about pubs then... Who the hell pays any attention to pubs anyway.

[SenorClipClop]

9 hours ago, Wolfdoggie said:

Guns and Melees will always outperform the waste of time marking mechanic, there's absolutly 0 value in it, wether it's low lvl or high level content.

 

9 hours ago, CaptainMinty said:

Aight, so, by this logic, a significant number of frames this game has to offer have absolutely zero value. A majority of frames cannot output the same damage a gun or melee ever could.

From my understanding, the argument conflates viability with competitiveness. "The strongest options are the only ones worth using, and anything else is pointless." Personally I disagree with this idea, because this game is not hard and you can beat the game fairly easily with most any setup, so you might as well pick what you like. Furthermore this game is co-operative, not competitive, so there's no intrinsic push to competitive outputs except to appease a player's ego. But hey, to each their own.

Bladestorm works fine as a tool to let you essentially double what Ash is doing. Take in a group of enemies with Bladestorm marks, let the clones take care of them and turn your personal attention to another group. If you rely solely on Bladestorm to do the work, you're either joining the clone-jutsu and cutting your own damage potential in exchange for brief invincibility, or you're just standing around watching when you could be using both clones and weapons.

The only problem I really see with Bladestorm is that it does a poor job of scaling low. If you're on low levels, spamming Shuriken will probably outperfom Bladestorm or Teleport just for its speed, so it can be hard to justify Ash in content under Level 30, especially in a squad. Get some scarier enemies in there, and Ash does just fine.

[Acersecomic]

3 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

 

 Furthermore this game is co-operative, not competitive, so there's no intrinsic push to competitive outputs except to appease a player's ego. But hey, to each their own.

 

However the problem is when someone brings such a setup (Saryn, Mesa, Bramma) which CLEARS EEEVERYTHING and everyone is left standing doing absolutely nothing.

I've made a point of just quitting Exterminations, Defenses and Mobile Defenses which have Saryn and Mesa in them, because what's the point if I'm not gonna be playing because of them. Volts will go like "oh, you don't like it? ok, I'll just speed, shield and stuff and not nuke with 4", cool guys. Saryn and Mesa are built for just one thing. NUKING. Weapon restriction sortie? There will be at least two Mesas or Saryns. Last time I had to quit a mission 7 times before I got a no Saryn/Mesa Sniper Defense, even then there was a nuke Volt but like I said he was cool with it so he used his other abilities instead.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Acersecomic

[BRZZAFK]

Even if bladestorm can mark every target in 30m instantly. It's damage output will still be limit by it's clone number and the speed of execution. Dont see why it's a big deal.

[DrivaMain]

Not every frame needs to have cheese mechanics to be able to keep up. Ash is fine because all of his abilities have it’s use Most of the time (His 1 is debatable but still have a use to force proc slash while 3 is mainly used for mobility). If you want to see what a terrible frame with badly designed abilities you may want to look at Nyx, Chroma, Hydroid, and Atlas.

 

[ES-Flinter]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb -AiLuoLi-:

Obviously I did, the old Ash was the best frame I've ever used. If someone wants a certain frame in their squad, they obviously wants what the frame does best. Don't tell them you're Mesa/DPS and proceed to never press 4. Tell them you're not a dps Mesa and be done with it. If you're talking about pubs then... Who the hell pays any attention to pubs anyway.

You want to say me that you enjoyed to press one button and stay in a repeating movie for the next 20s? 

I wouldn't even call it playing a game.

[TheGodofWiFi]

23 hours ago, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

I wish Ash's bladestorm would work like hydroids abilities

Thats like saying "I wish my frame had its arms and legs cut off".

Hydroid's ridiculous charge mechanic does nothing but slow down gameplay and damage his overall DPS.

22 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

We're not "salty nerf herders" for not actively trying to ruin a frame.

Yes you are salty and yes you are just trying to nerf Mesa. She fine as she is and there are many frames out there like her. Not all frames have to function the same. That would just dimish variety and make all frames essentially just paint-swaps.

23 hours ago, (NSW)Matt-S said:

Mesa presses 4 then holds fire and maybe spins the camera around.

So do a lot of other frames? Only difference is you can move with them while dealing out massive damage, so they've got one over on Mesa if you don't have the augment.

It's clear you were not here when Mesa first came out, since the way Peacemaker worked back then was truly broken. You didn't even need to move the camera, all you needed to do was start the ability, weigh down the fire button and everything that so much as poked a square inch of its face out from behind cover was immediately sniped by Mesa.

That is what broken truly means, since you didn't even need to move the camera and could make a sandwhich while Mesa was basically on auto-pilot killing everything. The shrinking reticle and camera movement were implemented to balance her and now she is in a really good place.

Not every single frame needs to have the exact same mechanics.

If anything, you lot should focus your attention on buffing other frames instead of nerfing them. Frames that are functional but bland, such as Oberon and Inaros. Or frames that are so bad that even Banshee Prime has higher stat usage than them and they are the butt of all jokes in the game, such as Hydroid.

Edited May 5, 2020 by TheGodofWiFi

[SenorClipClop]

5 hours ago, Acersecomic said:

However the problem is when someone brings such a setup (Saryn, Mesa, Bramma) which CLEARS EEEVERYTHING and everyone is left standing doing absolutely nothing.

This can be a problem in small maps at very low levels (as in, Lith or Meso levels). This is where Ash struggles anyway, with his high damage offset a little by not nuking maps.

In levels above the very low ones, it's not incredibly hard to hold your own against Mesa, Saryn and Bramma in terms of kill potential. Mesa is strong but relatively stationary when she deals damage, so it's pretty easy to just head away from the Mesa and eliminate groups before they hit Mesa's line-of-sight. Bramma can be answered in this way too; even though LoS isn't as much of a concern, the fact that it's a bow means the ordnance is less constant. Saryn meanwhile deals a bunch of LoS-free damage, but in small chunks over time. A quick Ash can scoop up kills on weakened enemies before the Spores get them. A lot of this is just a result of being more active than the nuke, hunting down targets before they get to the splash zone, and Ash is built for active play. With stuff like this in mind, I've outdamaged Saryns and Mesas as Hydroid.

This can be a struggle if there are mutliple sources of nuke in the same mission, though. Either way, the answer to the presented problem isn't in turning Ash into a lazy nuke. This problem would be resolved by toning down lazy nuking.

^{Also, if you're really frustrated with nuke frames on low levels and wanna show 'em what for, build a max-range Hallowed Eruption Oberon and watch your squad's nuke frames get really pissed off.} 

[(PSN)grayhyh]

On 2020-05-04 at 3:26 PM, JackHargreav said:

Mesa is probably the worst frame we have.

Without her 4th ability no one would use her ever.

Mesa has DR also so... people would still use her probs.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

3 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Thats like saying "I wish my frame had its arms and legs cut off".

Hydroid's ridiculous charge mechanic does nothing but slow down gameplay and damage his overall DPS.

Yes you are salty and yes you are just trying to nerf Mesa. She fine as she is and there are many frames out there like her. Not all frames have to function the same. That would just dimish variety and make all frames essentially just paint-swaps.

So do a lot of other frames? Only difference is you can move with them while dealing out massive damage, so they've got one over on Mesa if you don't have the augment.

It's clear you were not here when Mesa first came out, since the way Peacemaker worked back then was truly broken. You didn't even need to move the camera, all you needed to do was start the ability, weigh down the fire button and everything that so much as poked a square inch of its face out from behind cover was immediately sniped by Mesa.

That is what broken truly means, since you didn't even need to move the camera and could make a sandwhich while Mesa was basically on auto-pilot killing everything. The shrinking reticle and camera movement were implemented to balance her and now she is in a really good place.

Not every single frame needs to have the exact same mechanics.

If anything, you lot should focus your attention on buffing other frames instead of nerfing them. Frames that are functional but bland, such as Oberon and Inaros. Or frames that are so bad that even Banshee Prime has higher stat usage than them and they are the butt of all jokes in the game, such as Hydroid.

You responded to the wrong person. I dont know who started talking about mesa. Dont give a darn about her. 

Someone called us nerf herders for Not wanting Ash to have Mesas 4 mechanic. They're claiming we nerfed Ash by not wanting him to have something he doesnt have.....get it?

So if you think Ash Blade storm....should behave like Mesas Peacemakers.....I'm implying that you have no idea what you're talking about....because it's a bad and extremely nooby idea. It's not needed unless you're inexperienced and are looking for a cheap easy way to kill with ashs Blade Storm. Do you understand now?