Warframe Revised: Railjack Revisited (Part 1): Hotfix 27.4.2

[Warlord_ZA]

Just discovered a BIG problem in railjack, so my wreckage capacity is full, (2 over capacity since last mission i did),  i stored all the stuff that looked good, engines, weapons, reactors....to repair them as soon as i get resources to be able to repair them, so i wanted to go do missions to stock up on resources to repair them, GUESS WHAT, i cant even go to my dojo!?!?!?!?

i cant join a random mission for railjack, i cant join my dojo, i cant start my own railjack mission, i cant do anything in regards to my dojo or railjack, in region a guy said to use the railjack mission screen then go to dry dock, that finally got me into my drydock, started a mission and a message popped up, YOUR WRECKAGE CAPACITY IS FULL, CAN NOT DO MISSIONS TILL YOU REMOVE SOME ITEMS, WTF!!! 

so i scrapped some REALLY GOOD items i had, after scrapping i could do missions, not only that i could finally join my dojo (the normal way)

Second problem, so i did a mission to get some resources to repair the remaining good wrecks i got, after that 1 mission, guess what, capacity full again!!!!, and still not enough resources to repair a single wreck!!!

i can not do missions to get resources to repair what i have, unless i scrap what i have??? how am i suppose to get better things if i cant even repair the things i have, if i cant do missions to get resources to repair them, unless i scrap what i stored???

WHO CAME UP WITH THE IDEA TO HAVE WRECKAGE CAPACITY?????

[SocialFox]

13 minutes ago, XxWarlord2017xX said:

Just discovered a BIG problem in railjack, so my wreckage capacity is full, (2 over capacity since last mission i did),  i stored all the stuff that looked good, engines, weapons, reactors....to repair them as soon as i get resources to be able to repair them, so i wanted to go do missions to stock up on resources to repair them, GUESS WHAT, i cant even go to my dojo!?!?!?!?

i cant join a random mission for railjack, i cant join my dojo, i cant start my own railjack mission, i cant do anything in regards to my dojo or railjack, in region a guy said to use the railjack mission screen then go to dry dock, that finally got me into my drydock, started a mission and a message popped up, YOUR WRECKAGE CAPACITY IS FULL, CAN NOT DO MISSIONS TILL YOU REMOVE SOME ITEMS, WTF!!! 

so i scrapped some REALLY GOOD items i had, after scrapping i could do missions, not only that i could finally join my dojo (the normal way)

Second problem, so i did a mission to get some resources to repair the remaining good wrecks i got, after that 1 mission, guess what, capacity full again!!!!, and still not enough resources to repair a single wreck!!!

i can not do missions to get resources to repair what i have, unless i scrap what i have??? how am i suppose to get better things if i cant even repair the things i have, if i cant do missions to get resources to repair them, unless i scrap what i stored???

WHO CAME UP WITH THE IDEA TO HAVE WRECKAGE CAPACITY?????

You honestly don't need more than one of each type of item that can be equipped, you have 3 railjack components, and 5 weapon components, and quite honestly, if it's not MK3 it's not worth fixing, so save yourself the headacke and just scrap anything MK2 and below, even if you want to keep one of each house, you're still looking at 24 (8x3) items, which is well below the 30 cap for wreckage.

If you absolutely need those to progress through the starchart, Sigma MK3 stuff is researchable and buildable from the clan, and is better than any MK2 stuff you can get from Earth and Saturn Proxima.

[Warlord_ZA]

1 minute ago, SocialFox said:

You honestly don't need more than one of each type of item that can be equipped, you have 3 railjack components, and 5 weapon components, and quite honestly, if it's not MK3 it's not worth fixing, so save yourself the headacke and just scrap anything MK2 and below, even if you want to keep one of each house, you're still looking at 24 (8x3) items, which is well below the 30 cap for wreckage.

If you absolutely need those to progress through the starchart, Sigma MK3 stuff is better than any MK2 stuff you can get from Earth and Saturn Proxima.

all is MK3 that i have, problem that you are not thinking of is that you can combine them to get something better from it right? or you did not know this? but its ok, im done with railjack, wont be playing it again, have a nice day

[Nyarllathoteph]

19 hours ago, Calum95 said:

What fix? They deliberately removed it.

That is what I meant by fix... To return it back... People don't get jokes these days...

[Nyarllathoteph]

14 hours ago, SeikanEkasin said:

Stop trying to shoot yourself in the foot no one was playing Railjack- now it is the slightest bit enjoyable, and they should not go back.

When I want to shoot myself into the foot, no one is stopping me and definitely not you. I was not talking about the RJ bit itself, about the fighters, I am happy with those, I was talking about the on-foot enemies. And did I say I am against them being weaker? No... I said I like killing stuff no matter what, my only complaint is that now the whole scaling is different, i can't say if my new builds are as strong or weaker than my old ones.

[Tsoe]

can we have reflection mod update one day?

[Dark_Horse89]

On 2020-05-05 at 4:52 AM, SpicyDinosaur said:

Translation: "I need something that hands me what I want on a silver platter!"

 

You can RJ in Earth or even Saturn, there has to be a place for people o be challenged properly and rewarded for it. If you don't want to participate because you don't like something about it, that is a moot issue, as every other MMO requires you to work to get further in the game. This is why we have no endgame, because people like you scream that it's too difficult.

 

And no I don;t think I should have to add false difficulty for the same rewards. Being rewarded more for a higher level of play makes sense

Ho boy you don't have any idea about difficult games.

Any way i just said my opinion to cover and help also a lot of people who they cannot play some stuff and they need something easier. And ofc if one option to change difficulty must have lower rewards in easier difficulties..... if something like that happen in game. There are other MMO games who have that option but i'm sure you never played other games to know that. 

I'm solo player with solo clan for one person and i master my railjack when this come out just in few minutes, before you begs your clan to help you get your resources just to build your railjack and your cephalon cy..... so found some one else to play, not me😁

This is why we have no endgame, because of people like you who they don't respect other persons and they don't have nice ideas... so we help the game with multiple choices cover many sides of different players, and every one become happy (something very difficult but not impossible with good work)

At last even because of high difficulty can drive one game to become no endgame but like i said before you will knew that, if you have ever tried other mmo (actually imo Warframe is not exactly mmo to compare it...so your point here is a bit trash....but any way we completely disagree in that so doesn't matter.)

[SebastianSommer]

6 hours ago, XxWarlord2017xX said:

all is MK3 that i have, problem that you are not thinking of is that you can combine them to get something better from it right? or you did not know this? but its ok, im done with railjack, wont be playing it again, have a nice day

BTW, you can max out a weapon turret by valence transfering it around 2-3 times. So if you already have duplicate weapon wreckages, just fuse them immediately rather than keep them. Prioritize on the ones you are currently using because the resource requirement is halved compared to repairing new ones.

However, I'm just going to assume that you are planning to collect every weapon/component in railjack (Lavan, Vidar & Zekti variants) and just keep them in storage due to lack of resources. Then the only choice here is to scrap zekti wreckages since they drop frequently by enemies. If somehow you only have Lavan and Vidar wreckages, then it's a matter of picking two of the same type with the highest stats and then scrap them all.

By the sound of it, you have a good enough railjack for veil runs due to the MKIII surplus. Then equip 'particle ram' battle avionic and activate it when you are flying from one end of the map to the other. You are guaranteed to get enough resources for a valence fusion after two runs. For repairs, around 4 runs, give or take.

[SocialFox]

11 hours ago, XxWarlord2017xX said:

all is MK3 that i have, problem that you are not thinking of is that you can combine them to get something better from it right? or you did not know this? but its ok, im done with railjack, wont be playing it again, have a nice day

What stops you from combining them as soon as you get them? It's what I do, and I've never run into this issue, you can't upgrade them to infinity, and you always get a base increase of the stats regardless if it's better than the one you already have, so keeping any more than a few of them to upgrade is meaningless. I'm sorry if you feel this way, but the reality of the situations is that you have plenty of solutions to follow, and you refuse to use them, that's the perfect example of an adult tantrum (Oh I can't get my way so I'll just sit here and yell at pixels)

And in case you did "NOT" know, it's "Cheaper" to Valence Fuze, before Building them, as it costs only Half the building materials if fusing from a Repaired part, and a blueprint, rather than fusing two repaired parts together.

Problem is that you are not thinking about doing the research into how the function works before you start complaining that it doesn't work as you expected it to, and if this is enough to stop you from playing railjack, then the issue isn't that you think it's bugged, you already have a concept of hatred towards railjack itself, and are just looking for excuses to not play it, what boggles my mind is why did you feel the need to let everyone else know you're not going to touch it again? It's like yelling "I'm VEGAN, and I'LL NEVER EAT MEAT", when honestly nobody really cares.

You too, have a nice day, and I do wish you have some truly wonderful RNG (no, I mean it, it's not sarcastically, I truly wish you get what you want from your future missions, maybe that way you can calm down a bit and appreciate the little things)

[danjoure]

What 's happening into RailJack mission?

Ruse War Field can be done alone with sigma sheild array, sigma engines, sigma reactor, apoc,pulsar and 3 avionnics ( Bulkhead[5] or Hardened Casing [7], Hull Weave[7], Teather[4]) awesome @_@

DE it would be nice if you could bring us back some challenge.

[grenadelaunche0]

On 2020-05-05 at 6:22 AM, Svenarx said:

Did you feel the nerf too ?

no, they just fix the nikana zaw visual bug then the exodia contagion visual bug appear, now they have fixed it, tks god

[HoustonDragon]

16 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

I'd implore your to run some more missions, and then provide some feedback.  I'm not sure how many you have, so take that with a grain of salt.

 

My experience is thus.  Run Earth.  Run Bendar Cluster, because it shouldn't spawn any ground missions.  It doesn't....the first time.  Use Mark III Zetki weapons, so all of this is easy mode.  Two crewships spawn and get disabled.  Pop out of the Railjack, because two disabled crewships are just pinatas waiting to be popped.  Pop the first, and two new crewships have spawned in without the ship saying anything.  Crap.  Jump back to the Railjack, and two boarding parties have entered.  Sigh.  Kill all of them, disable three crewships.  Throw hands in the air, and artillery two ships.  New crewship spawns in, making it 5/4.  Launches a ramsled immediately, then artillery wipes 4/4.  Ramsled activates at point blank, so I have another boarding party to deal with.  Fun.

Finish all of this, because it's low level.  Build 4 dome charges, because I need 3.  Fly back to the dry dock because I'm tired of the spawning still being broken and the 5 minutes of flying around required to get the resources.  I now have 1/5 dome charges, 290/300 revolite, and 600+ flux out of 746.  This is despite having a full amount of everything at the end of the mission.  Because.  Yeah, I can craft more dome charges but that's at maximum cost, not the cost I had to earn through the intrinsics grind.  Whatever.

I'm at rank 9 Intrinsics across the board, am farming for the rank 10 levels, and have a fully upgraded Railjack as primarily a solo player. I get there' s a lot of stuff happening, but I also have to question a little bit your narrative. Crewships are pretty much the only immediate threat when active; disabled they can be avoided for the most part. You can also maneuver around Ramsleds to either shoot them down or even boost into them with Particle Ram to destroy them. They have a very distinctive beeping tone if they are nearby your ship, so you should be listening for the pinging sound if they are getting close. Even doing Veil missions, there are usually 3 crewships up at a time. Even if a new one pops up, don't panic, just take the time to focus on disabling them primarily, and taking out any Ramsleds. You have PLENTY of time to take them out at your leisure; I've often left one floating just to roam the map to pickup everything before finishing.

 

I also have found if you've taken out Ramsleds, park up close to the Crewship. They won't spawn if you're right next door, and can either use the Artillery or Slingshot to zip over quickly. You should also be using your Omni teleport to get immediately back to the ship, and using the L interior map to teleport around quickly inside. Even if you get a boarding crew, they may do some damage to your ship, but don't sweat it unless it's a critical breech that needs to be sealed. You don't even have to repair the ship damage once you've completed your mission, as it will auto heal back in the drydock. If you have Void Cloak, you can also activate it even if you're outside if another one happens to pop up while you're occupied; it can give you a nice breather window to finish taking out a reactor, and get back to your pilot's seat.

 

If you're using your Forges during the mission, you should not be running out of resources. Just be sure you're not Refining or you won't be able to build from the materials you've picked up. Also, since the patch, I have seen a LOT more drops for engines/reactors/shields, so I feel like DE has listened to players in terms of building their RJ, especially being able to collect multiple parts and fuse them together. It's completely better to be able to have that opportunity to farm and upgrade, versus banging the RNG head against the wall hoping for the "perfect" drop that never happened. Yes, it still requires some trial and error, but it's a much more balanced curve, imo.

 

Good luck. Even with a newer crew and ship, they've made it much less of a grind towards being able to upgrade and perform better. The new Avionics drop rates do suck, but I also am not worrying about them, as they are not make/break for being able to succeed. We have plenty of available Avionic tools that are super useful.

[Warlord_ZA]

12 hours ago, SebastianSommer said:

BTW, you can max out a weapon turret by valence transfering it around 2-3 times. So if you already have duplicate weapon wreckages, just fuse them immediately rather than keep them. Prioritize on the ones you are currently using because the resource requirement is halved compared to repairing new ones.

However, I'm just going to assume that you are planning to collect every weapon/component in railjack (Lavan, Vidar & Zekti variants) and just keep them in storage due to lack of resources. Then the only choice here is to scrap zekti wreckages since they drop frequently by enemies. If somehow you only have Lavan and Vidar wreckages, then it's a matter of picking two of the same type with the highest stats and then scrap them all.

By the sound of it, you have a good enough railjack for veil runs due to the MKIII surplus. Then equip 'particle ram' battle avionic and activate it when you are flying from one end of the map to the other. You are guaranteed to get enough resources for a valence fusion after two runs. For repairs, around 4 runs, give or take.

your reasoning is valid up to a point, no my railjack is not strong enough to do void, i joined random people to get new parts to be able to upgrade my ship for void runs, but with the capacity being full, i can not join missions, the thing that i dont like or understand is the capacity on wreckage, why even have a capacity limit?

thing is you can reason anything to be valid, anything that dont make sense can be reasoned to make sense even tho it is not, most people jumped on my head for posting y problem i have, saying i dont know how to play the game, they are defending the game and dont stop to think about the real problem, in their minds im at fault, not the game dinamics

but its fine, alot of other games to play nowadays, enjoy your day

[FSK41]

vor 21 Stunden schrieb Jangkrik:

That 1B EHP is a lie. Do you know why Pox? Pox is for armor stripping.

With their armor stripped, their HP is basically almost nonexistent if you consider our DPS, both back then and now.

DE's change to armor scaling is completely irrelevant to the difficulty if in the end you're just stripping the enemies' armor using CP or corrosive proc. It only removes a useless (and boring) step where you have to strip armor, which you would have totally circumvented with 4x CP anyway.

One of the main objectives for armor rework is so that there are more diversity in end game (hence why they also nerfed CP) instead of only 4x CP or corrosive AoE being the viable alternatives, which it accomplished successfully.

On challenges, unless DE totally rework the end game contents, there will not be challenges. Even if you bring back old system, it will just make fighting high level enemies more annoying/tedious, not challenging. Having to whack enemies 20 times isn't challenging at all, it's just tedious.

There is no challenge in the first place. There is only equipping the correct aura or throwing some corrosive fart bombs, which are hardly challenges.

 

15-20 seconds is already very slow for Warframe standards btw.

Sure, 3 shots for level 300 heavy gunners (2.7 million EHP). That means maybe 20+ shots for level 9999 gunners (215 million EHP) after taking into account viral and corrosive/heat procs. Pretty sure those aren't easy enough to be classified as too easy, especially considering that you're using Bramma, a damn good weapon that fires quite slowly.

For melees, sure, it can go waaaaay further than primaries/secondaries. However, it's because they massively buffed melee in melee 3.0 to the point of making everything else irrelevant in super long runs, not because they nerfed armor (like I said, you could & can always strip armor). If any, for buffs/nerfs, you ought to be asking for melee nerfs instead of armor buffs if you want the game to be more difficult, or just don't use melee.

Plus, your challenging tanky enemies are still there despite the fact that level 3000+ is now doable using melee without cheesing or armor stripping...

Example:

Level 9999 Heavy Gunner after heat/viral procs: 160k HP, 99.7% damage reduction -> 53 million EHP.

With maxed Berserker, combo counter, Blood Rush, sub-perfect riven, and CO stack, a decent hybrid melee would have 200k DPS for non-headshot or 1-2 million for headshot, requiring you to do 250 seconds of non-headshot hits or 20 seconds of headshot hits. Pretty sure requiring that long to kill something after you gimped up everything does not make the enemy qualify as too weak.

 

Basically, my points are:

1. Returning old armor scaling won't change anything. You'll just strip them. It's just one extra tedious step which is hardly a challenge.
2. Don't blame armor nerf when the thing that causes endgame contents to be very easy is melee buff.
3. The tanky enemies that you really love fighting are still there at really high level like 9999 (maybe they're already there at 7000, idk). You should be asking for level sliders instead of armor buff.

Ill simply give u the real numbers now , BEFORE the worst update ever an ancient  at level 9999 had around 500M now he has 430k . A Gunner with armor at level 9999 NOW has around the EHP of a  gunner WITHOUT ARMOR before the update. Just to disregard armor (ur obvious main argument) I could shoot for 30 minutes with my bramma on a level 9999 ancient with old HP and he would still stand there,NOW I can shoot 4 times and he is dead. THAT IS NO DIFFERENCE TO YOU?=

[Warlord_ZA]

6 hours ago, SocialFox said:

What stops you from combining them as soon as you get them? It's what I do, and I've never run into this issue, you can't upgrade them to infinity, and you always get a base increase of the stats regardless if it's better than the one you already have, so keeping any more than a few of them to upgrade is meaningless. I'm sorry if you feel this way, but the reality of the situations is that you have plenty of solutions to follow, and you refuse to use them, that's the perfect example of an adult tantrum (Oh I can't get my way so I'll just sit here and yell at pixels)

And in case you did "NOT" know, it's "Cheaper" to Valence Fuze, before Building them, as it costs only Half the building materials if fusing from a Repaired part, and a blueprint, rather than fusing two repaired parts together.

Problem is that you are not thinking about doing the research into how the function works before you start complaining that it doesn't work as you expected it to, and if this is enough to stop you from playing railjack, then the issue isn't that you think it's bugged, you already have a concept of hatred towards railjack itself, and are just looking for excuses to not play it, what boggles my mind is why did you feel the need to let everyone else know you're not going to touch it again? It's like yelling "I'm VEGAN, and I'LL NEVER EAT MEAT", when honestly nobody really cares.

You too, have a nice day, and I do wish you have some truly wonderful RNG (no, I mean it, it's not sarcastically, I truly wish you get what you want from your future missions, maybe that way you can calm down a bit and appreciate the little things)

you have to repair one first to be able to fuse with non repaired ones right? there in lies the problem, i never said its a bug, i said its a problem, its the same as riven slot capacity, why do you think they increased it from 60-90-120? if you see that point you can understand what this problem i have is all about

im not trying to find an excuse to NOT play it, i have a couple of reasons that i HAVE to play it, mastery xp for one, tho i realised, why do this if it only frustrates me, that is why i said im done with railjack, its all good lol, enjoy your day

[-Feral-]

I've got no issue with wreckage capacity and you can end up with far more than your limit if you run a few back to back missions.  One thing though, I would like to see an option to auto scrap certain items, I've maxed a few weapons and I've no use for duplicates although I understand that you could have 2 of the same weapons for pilot and wings.  Same for component parts, I'm lucky that I have max vidar engines so any new parts I don't want and would be useful to auto scrap them.

One thing that bugs me however is that items wreckage you gain is not visible when you get back to dry dock from mission, you need to exit and go back in again.  I'd also like to be able to select multiple items to scrap as it does get tedious doing one at a time.

[master_of_destiny]

1 hour ago, HoustonDragon said:

I'm at rank 9 Intrinsics across the board, am farming for the rank 10 levels, and have a fully upgraded Railjack as primarily a solo player. I get there' s a lot of stuff happening, but I also have to question a little bit your narrative. Crewships are pretty much the only immediate threat when active; disabled they can be avoided for the most part. You can also maneuver around Ramsleds to either shoot them down or even boost into them with Particle Ram to destroy them. They have a very distinctive beeping tone if they are nearby your ship, so you should be listening for the pinging sound if they are getting close. Even doing Veil missions, there are usually 3 crewships up at a time. Even if a new one pops up, don't panic, just take the time to focus on disabling them primarily, and taking out any Ramsleds. You have PLENTY of time to take them out at your leisure; I've often left one floating just to roam the map to pickup everything before finishing.

 

I also have found if you've taken out Ramsleds, park up close to the Crewship. They won't spawn if you're right next door, and can either use the Artillery or Slingshot to zip over quickly. You should also be using your Omni teleport to get immediately back to the ship, and using the L interior map to teleport around quickly inside. Even if you get a boarding crew, they may do some damage to your ship, but don't sweat it unless it's a critical breech that needs to be sealed. You don't even have to repair the ship damage once you've completed your mission, as it will auto heal back in the drydock. If you have Void Cloak, you can also activate it even if you're outside if another one happens to pop up while you're occupied; it can give you a nice breather window to finish taking out a reactor, and get back to your pilot's seat.

 

If you're using your Forges during the mission, you should not be running out of resources. Just be sure you're not Refining or you won't be able to build from the materials you've picked up. Also, since the patch, I have seen a LOT more drops for engines/reactors/shields, so I feel like DE has listened to players in terms of building their RJ, especially being able to collect multiple parts and fuse them together. It's completely better to be able to have that opportunity to farm and upgrade, versus banging the RNG head against the wall hoping for the "perfect" drop that never happened. Yes, it still requires some trial and error, but it's a much more balanced curve, imo.

 

Good luck. Even with a newer crew and ship, they've made it much less of a grind towards being able to upgrade and perform better. The new Avionics drop rates do suck, but I also am not worrying about them, as they are not make/break for being able to succeed. We have plenty of available Avionic tools that are super useful.

 

Let's stop for a minute.  Are you trying all of the locations, or just the Proxima?  I'm going to ask, because it seems like you are assuming everyone requires way less crafting resources.  As an aside, the crewships can infinitely spawn ramsleds, even when disabled.  Unless you disable two in immediate proximity, then you're going to have ramsled spawns.

 

Why do I say this?  Spawning behavior.  I've run Earth, and it seems like the spawn limit there is 2.  It wasn't before, and if you have level 10 intrinsics it doesn't mean you've run enough recently to see the same behavior.  I know of people who got there, then stopped playing.  Back on topic, disable 2 in Bendar Cluster.  Wait 3-4 minutes....nothing.  Decide to board one, and blow it up.  The second I start the meltdown a new crewship punches in.  Goodie.  By the time I teleport back, a ramsled slams into the ship.  This gets worse in the Proxima and Saturn Veil, so I generally blow them up with the artillery.  It's almost like as you progress sling-shot and boarding actions are effectively discouraged until there are no fighter/ship spawns.

 

How does this work in the Proxima Veil?  Same way, but spawn limits are at 3 crewships.  Between that, and the propensity for disabled crewships to continue to protect their rear hatches by spinning without any engines, the crewships really are difficulty by sponge rather than challenges.  Again, not a real challenge, so much as a gear and tactics check.

 

 

What about the other areas?  Well, on Earth you can still keep the particle ram up, and shred enemies.  They fixed the organic pets thing during the latest hotfix, so there's a bonus.  Saturn is OK, but the missions drag on excessively because the ground portions are always a test of running around without a crew outside to pop the radiators.  Again, not a challenge, but time consuming run-arounds.

What is my narrative?  Well, 6 months of railjack and it's now tolerable.  Not good, not complete, and not without huge gaping holes. More importantly than any of that you can't run multiple missions or bind any of the disparate elements of this game together with it (as promised).  Archwing took years, so you could finally use it on the open worlds.  It then took more time to use archwing-guns as a summon.  Railjack spent 6 months with archwings being a death sentence, and only now do they feel like a viable option rather than instant death for anything without invincibility.

In short, my narrative is after half a year we've received Minimum Viable Product.  Let's keep pushing to get something better than "it's no longer torture."  It'd be nice to have "I choose to play for reasons beyond the statistically insignificant rewards (0.67%) or the MR value I can attain from the power equations they chose to use for intrinsics to make it feel like gains were initially good but rapidly approach stupid long waits.  

 

You're welcome to argue that you are having fun.  My argument is that you are having fun with 6x the initial drop rate for asterite and titanium, 2x the drop rate on rare reactors, 2x the intrinsic gains as initially allowed, 25% the weapon heat build-up rate, 2x the weapon damage, and a myriad of intrinsics based boosts that make the experience better by virtue of unlocking basic features.  It's pretty sad to say all of this, but at this point you're enjoying something so far away from the thing it started as to be an entirely separate game mode.  It's just not a good look, and highlights that Railjack was pushed out raw.  Not half baked, not underdone, not even needing improvement.  It was raw, and now it is undercooked.  It's fine to enjoy that, but not a reason to stop pushing for something feature complete.  

[HoustonDragon]

1 hour ago, master_of_destiny said:

You're welcome to argue that you are having fun.  My argument is that you are having fun with 6x the initial drop rate for asterite and titanium, 2x the drop rate on rare reactors, 2x the intrinsic gains as initially allowed, 25% the weapon heat build-up rate, 2x the weapon damage, and a myriad of intrinsics based boosts that make the experience better by virtue of unlocking basic features.  It's pretty sad to say all of this, but at this point you're enjoying something so far away from the thing it started as to be an entirely separate game mode.  It's just not a good look, and highlights that Railjack was pushed out raw.  Not half baked, not underdone, not even needing improvement.  It was raw, and now it is undercooked.  It's fine to enjoy that, but not a reason to stop pushing for something feature complete.  

I was having fun prior to that, and still figured out strategy to make things work. By your logic, people should simply stop playing until the "perfect" gameplay gets released. I tend to focus on how seamlessly the gameplay works between flying the Railjack, popping out in our Archwing, and transitioning into the ground missions smoothly and with very little fuss. I can point at Mass Effect as a comparison for a "AAA" title that had horrendous load times and delays between zones, along with its own bugs. Compared to a lot of MMOs out there promising and not delivering, I'm personally pretty impressed with DE for a free-to-play game that does it pretty damn well.

 

Also, they had already vastly reduced the amount of resources and time required to build the Railjack. This patch seems to be towards giving even more incentives to get people to play. You want them to further polish it? Then maybe people actually playing and getting involved will help drive that. Most folks in my own experience have little to no knowledge what's expected, and are surprised once it's been shown to them. There were a ton during Scarlet Spear who never even realized they were earning Intrinsics or how to spend them on their skills.

 

Any "stupid long waits" you seem to be referring to appear to be self inflicted. There's more of the Erra/New War to be coming, along with other events. Maybe we'll see more Railjack integration for folks to be involved. I certainly hope so.

[Jangkrik]

2 hours ago, --Q--FSK41 said:

Ill simply give u the real numbers now , BEFORE the worst update ever an ancient  at level 9999 had around 500M now he has 430k . A Gunner with armor at level 9999 NOW has around the EHP of a  gunner WITHOUT ARMOR before the update. Just to disregard armor (ur obvious main argument) I could shoot for 30 minutes with my bramma on a level 9999 ancient with old HP and he would still stand there,NOW I can shoot 4 times and he is dead. THAT IS NO DIFFERENCE TO YOU?=

You are just moving the goal post.

You were using level 1000 (NOT 9999) as a fun example in your previous post, which is equivalent to level something thousand and is very much reachable in the current system. No one is stopping you from running endless missions until you die of exhaustion if you want to do challenging level 9999 runs or something. Pretty sure the current level 9999 is still harder than the previous level 1000.

Also, why would the addition of cheap bullet sponges that take 30 minutes to kill using the meta weapon make the game more challenging and fun? It's absurd.

[master_of_destiny]

10 hours ago, HoustonDragon said:

I was having fun prior to that, and still figured out strategy to make things work. By your logic, people should simply stop playing until the "perfect" gameplay gets released. I tend to focus on how seamlessly the gameplay works between flying the Railjack, popping out in our Archwing, and transitioning into the ground missions smoothly and with very little fuss. I can point at Mass Effect as a comparison for a "AAA" title that had horrendous load times and delays between zones, along with its own bugs. Compared to a lot of MMOs out there promising and not delivering, I'm personally pretty impressed with DE for a free-to-play game that does it pretty damn well.

 

Also, they had already vastly reduced the amount of resources and time required to build the Railjack. This patch seems to be towards giving even more incentives to get people to play. You want them to further polish it? Then maybe people actually playing and getting involved will help drive that. Most folks in my own experience have little to no knowledge what's expected, and are surprised once it's been shown to them. There were a ton during Scarlet Spear who never even realized they were earning Intrinsics or how to spend them on their skills.

 

Any "stupid long waits" you seem to be referring to appear to be self inflicted. There's more of the Erra/New War to be coming, along with other events. Maybe we'll see more Railjack integration for folks to be involved. I certainly hope so.

1) Releasing a free to play game does not allow you to release a bad game and shrug your shoulders.  So we are clear, that is what has been said, and finally acknowledged with all of the railjack revisited stuff.  Again, not my choice but the entire reason something is being revisited immediately.

2) They reduced the resources.  Why?  Well, if we judge by numbers you can go back on steam, and see that they people who earned an MR 30 rank and those that completed railjack building were not far off.  But, you can't yet earn MR 30.  Absolutely.  My point is that release was not just bad, it was so fundamentally backwards that it effectively was DOA to pretty much anyone not dedicating huge time to the game.  DE realized this months later, which is an indication that it was rushed out the door.

3) Your argument that people don't know what intrinsics are is...let's call it a bad joke.  Again, free to play with the requirement you have a wiki tab open because otherwise you don't understand the mechanics is a failure to onboard new players.  A failure that is 7+ years old, and that has not gotten better.  You want a better example?  Let's play Guildwars II.  The areas have items.  The items in each area produce the armor/items for that area.  Crafting is all in one place, and recipes are easy to leaf through.  They've got just enough scripted quests to introduce the world, and let you go to town with gusto.  $60 up-front, free to play thereafter (I didn't keep up, so I think there are expansions now).  

4) Stupid long wait is a reference to having to run things again, and again, and again, and again until you get a drop.  I got 360k points on Scarlet Spear, and never saw a Breach Adrenaline avionic.  I played ESO for two months before I got the parts for that piece of trash Braton Vandal.  I ran almost two hours of Arbitrations and got 3 arcanes with everything else being endo.  It's sitting with a huge collection of ayatans and 2 million of its brethren because there's nothing to use it on.  My point is that I want to get something to drop, and the drop rates are so depressingly low that it's a joke.  99.33% failure rates are a stupidly long wait for that 0.67% success.

 

So why am I so adamant about all of this?  Let's do some basic math, and figure out the propositions here.  There are 10 new avionics.  Let's give it the benefit of doubt, and assume that you only want one.  Said avionic is a 0.67% drop chance from enemies.  There are a swarm of thirty fighters per mission, and of those thirty 3 spawn as the enemy type that drops the avionic.  99.33% failure per ship, so a 98.00% failure per run.  Let's just look at a 50% chance of getting the drop, so that we can be reasonable.  That would mean that 0.98^x=0.50, with x being 35 runs of the mission.  

35 runs, assuming that you take only 10 minutes per run (that's no farming and artillery kills on crewships), is 350 minutes.  That's about 6 solid hours of playing the game.

We aren't over yet.  The transitions back to dry dock, and out to the mission are often several minutes.  Let's just call it 2, and add 70 minutes on. 7 hours.

What if we're unlucky?  Maybe I want to get a 99% chance to get the avionic.  How long would that take?  That's right, 229 runs.  With a 2 minute load time, that's 45.8 hours to get an avionic.  

 

If it isn't clear yet, I believe the people at DE aren't stupid.  That being said, it seems like they base the math on aspiration rather than fun play.  Why then do I suggest varied mission types with concentrations of one enemy type?  Imagine for a second the same math, but instead of 3 ships there are 10.  It isn't a huge difference, but failure per mission is now 93.50%.  You hit 50% at 11 missions, and 99% at 69 missions.  Yeah the drop chance is still bad, but instead of stupid long waiting it's actively deciding what you want and want to grind for.

My point here is that DE isn't stupid.  They aren't malicious.  They are often blind to the repercussions of this kind of grind, and sometimes actively seem to foster it.  What?  Why can I make that accusation?  Universal Medallions.  Universal vacuum.  In the former they prevented using a very rare drop to gain conclave standing (citing a single posting).  In the later they ignored immense player feedback for years, so that everyone played either Carrier or Helios.  Eventually we got universal vacuum and fetch, but Universal Medallions are garbage in my inventory despite being at MR 28 I never engaged with the conclave.  Why?  It was a mess and instead of fixing it DE has let it linger.  That's a whole 'nother topic, but for now let me simplify this as DE not ever seeming to want to do the math, but drop rates getting worse and worse to force player engagement time.

 

 

Let's again not trust me.  I'm going to call myself a bad player, or at least one with a motivation.  Fine.  Do the math yourself.  I'll wait.  I'd suggest instead of the "high" 0.67% you check out Ordnance Velocity.  To highlight the issue, it drops from Exo Cutter (0.1%) and Exo Outrider (0.07%).  How many Exo Cutters do you need to kill, when the failure rate is 99.9%?  Let me give you a head start.  0.999^10 = 0.990045, 0.999^60 = 0.941736.  Better get cracking, because it seems like DE is stretching play time with garbage drop rates.  That's not the way to get people to keep playing, it's the way to get people to quit because "-expletive- this crap, this is just a mobile game that forces me to spend money of waste hours of my time."  I don't say that lightly, because that's what my friends said right before they logged off an uninstalled the game.  I want to tell them it's worth it to come back, but I can't.  Exponential costs for flat bonuses, drop rates that are statistical aberrations, and releases that take months to be playable are pretty hard to justify.

Why not leave then?  I'm considering it.  Old Blood was insulting.  Empyrean was insultingly unbalanced.  Rising Tide was....let's say they admitted to archwing melee breaking there and only fixed it 6 months later.  Scarlet Spear was a month of painful grind to not have to grind eidolons for RNG.  It's getting to the point where I don't care anymore.  The difference is that I don't see DE still having this game up in two years, assuming I take another long break.  The last two has been....if not for disruptions eventually getting good rewards I'd say that nothing was lost if I had stopped playing right when PoE launched.  If you want justification I'd suggest the login reward offering a primed sure footed, to cope with the knock-downs of the Profit Taker, or perhaps requiring arbitration vitus essence to unlock a mode where you are shown enemy scaling versus warframe and weapons only sans mods is utterly broken.  I wish I was being hyperbolic, but Grendel is my most hated frame because I cannot justify the grind to get essence, and topping it with a curb stomp that removes all progress you've made.  I earned that meatball, and he's going to stay with Excalibur in my never used pool.  Before Excalibur mains whine, I play Umbra if I play Excalibur.  There's literally no reason for the original when the new one is better.