My thoughts into the so-called Endgame Content and the playerbase ideal of the perfect way of implement it.

[AltairFerenc]

Endgame will never exist in this game for a couple of reasons.
If DE makes something hard(raids/arbitrations/railjack) It's either get cheased, then they nerf the chease so only that very low % of players will do it, so they nerf the mode to the point where everyone can play it, or flat out remove it(like raids), or if there was no chease to being with they just lower that so called "difficulty".
I left the game a year ago arbitrations supposed to be harder back then, came back 2 moths ago and it felt really easy, yet I still see complains about the drones having shield gating and "iTs ToO hArD!" no it isn't.  ESO soppused be hard too(in development), but then DE reworkd saryn so she basicly destroys that mode alone, and forgot that equinox and mesa exist too.
An attacking type game mode can't be hard because mesa, saryn, equinox and the bramma exist.
Defending type game modes can't be hard because limbo, nova, frost, gara exist, or hell even nyx if you are one of those people who are not in a hurry.
Taking aways your mods like the grendel stuff(I only read it haven't done because I don't care for that frame at all) is not fun at all.
For endgame they need to come up with something new, like the approach with raids but with less stupid because I could finish one becaue the community was toxic as #*!%, if you didn't know what to do or how to do you were not needed, noone willinged to teach. Some of that went to eidolons for sure with those stupid guys who want 1500+ hydro captured dudes, but the difference is you can go and just start a tridilon bounty and you will finish it with randoms, sure you propably won't do 3x3 or whatever the highest now, but you can do it.
Personally for endgame I would take a lvl5 lich surv that is solo only but the enemies come like there were 4 people, never understood this tho... why lower the enemies if there are less people? Just makes soloing surv harer if you are not a nuke frame or nekros.
I wouldn't even mind if dark sectors would come back but more refind with some more additions.
Triburos made a video about a game mode proposal, not long ago, that sounded very good too.
Or even if the sortie levels would change like the 1st mission strats at the lvl the 3rd rn and just pump that up could be hard with the modifers sortie has.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)GbHaseo said:

Tbh, I love the more convoluted stuff. It's why I and many others enjoy raids in Destiny or MMOs like WoW, ESO and FF14. I mean story is even tied into them. 

The coolest thing in Destiny is when Bungie ties story telling into the raids. When ppl beat The Last Wish, it changed the Dreaming City. Taken King, if you wanted to really beat Oryx, do the raid. It pushes the community to come together, they watch the big names on stream, dig through lore. Getting the cool gear that shows ppl you worked hard and learned, and inspires them to as well.

I agree. I'm just taking into account the other 80% of the community lol. 

Gotta start with the kid gloves I guess. Although it would be awesome to just throw random sentient giants in fights to watch everyone freak out. "Wtf is this DE? We're not ready for this, because we still have mote amps and no ways unlocked. Thanks for forcing use to use something other than a Bramma and warframe geez!"

[DroopingPuppy]

I think that the most simple way to do is just allow us to raise the initial level of the nodes. Why we can't have a 'normal' level 100 missions for all nodes?

[vanaukas]

4 hours ago, akrid45 said:

don't think u know what i bullet sponge is if u think something that takes around 2-3 seconds to kill is a bullet sponge 

I have carcinox vidar mk3 and a imperator vandal with riven, pretty sure it taked more than "2-3 secs". They were fast and bullet sponges, now they still are fast but no more bullet sponges, wich is nice. Even if they weren't bullet sponges, I think doing a mission for 40 mins vs 25  mins (on solo, 40 mins ruhsing, 25 mins now doing it pretty relaxed) shows clearly what's best in regards of players time (considering the farm for intrinsincs, components, avionics and resources). Difficulty doesn't come with enemies having more EHP.

Edited May 6, 2020 by xHeretic

[Vit0Corleone]

4 minutes ago, xHeretic said:

I have carcinox vidar mk3 and a imperator vandal with riven, pretty sure it taked more than "2-3 secs". They were fast and bullet sponges, now they still are fast but no more bullet sponges, wich is nice. Even if they weren't bullet sponges, I think doing a mission for 40 mins vs 25  mins (on solo, 40 mins ruhsing, 25 mins now doing it pretty relaxed) shows clearly what's best in regards of players time (considering the farm for intrinsincs, components, avionics and resources). Difficulty doesn't come with enemies having more EHP.

Don't know what kind of setup are you running, but I'm curious, because while you were taking 40 minutes, I was taking 7-8 minutes, and others way less than that - Solo.

This before the revised update. Now it's considerable faster, not so much because of the nerf on the enemies, but because of the way they changed how spawns work - closer to us, and faster to spawn.

Before it used to take 1-3 seconds to take down a fighter, and now it's, well, maybe 1-2 seconds ? Such a monumental difference right? They were such bullet sponges, how dare you DE making me waste an entire second.

Not that it matters that much, because both before and after the update, we relied mostly on abilities to destroy entire spawns of ships and not so much the guns.

I'm glad that it feels better for you now, but the scenario you are describing isn't really accurate, especially not for the players that did put some effort into acquiring good equipment and building up their player skills to tackle the hardest content available in the game.

Before the revised update:

 

 

[SneakyErvin]

7 hours ago, Felsagger said:

This is a GAAS game. GAAS games can't have 'end game'. If the game has a top it stops. War Frame is just a product that doesn't cope with such idea. 

You just get more and more confusing.

WoW, EQ, SWG, ToR, D3, PoE, DaoC, BDO, NWO, STO, ESO, Destiny 2 and so on and so on are effectively GAAS games and they all have different types of endgame. The reason WF lacks it is because it doesnt have the proper foundation in progression, so there is no strict way to identify something as an increase in difficulty and continued progression. WF stands still, what we get are mostly side grades that doesnt prepare us more for future content. Even eidolons that have a progression gate tied to them fails as some form of endgame since it is isolated and limited on so many various levels. Arbitrations is probably the closest thing we have to endgame. It has special variables, it requires us to bring proper equipment to deal with certain elements in the mode and it doesnt restrict us to use only parts of our kit, so all our progression actually matters and the mode has some straight upgrades for us to chase aswell that can make a big impact on builds. The problem is that arbitrations doesnt get added to near often enough, nor have they taken the chance to expand it further. A big start would be skipping the timer and have all endless maps available at all times as arbitrations. They could keep the bonus reward and extra dmg buffs to 1 random node per hour though. Then they could start intriducing it to kuva endless missions aswell with better rewards tied to it and then also expand it to arbitration fissures with batter payout than normal fissures.

That would actually make it a proper endgame since it would come after we are done with most basic things and we'd have a high level mode to focus on no matter what we do.

[akrid45]

1 hour ago, xHeretic said:

I have carcinox vidar mk3 and a imperator vandal with riven, pretty sure it taked more than "2-3 secs". They were fast and bullet sponges, now they still are fast but no more bullet sponges, wich is nice. Even if they weren't bullet sponges, I think doing a mission for 40 mins vs 25  mins (on solo, 40 mins ruhsing, 25 mins now doing it pretty relaxed) shows clearly what's best in regards of players time (considering the farm for intrinsincs, components, avionics and resources). Difficulty doesn't come with enemies having more EHP.

Clearly something wrong with your build then and not the enemies 

[HoustonDragon]

1 hour ago, xHeretic said:

I have carcinox vidar mk3 and a imperator vandal with riven, pretty sure it taked more than "2-3 secs". They were fast and bullet sponges, now they still are fast but no more bullet sponges, wich is nice. Even if they weren't bullet sponges, I think doing a mission for 40 mins vs 25  mins (on solo, 40 mins ruhsing, 25 mins now doing it pretty relaxed) shows clearly what's best in regards of players time (considering the farm for intrinsincs, components, avionics and resources). Difficulty doesn't come with enemies having more EHP.

Are you using the Hyperstrike Turret damage Avionics? Upgraded? You should be tearing through fighters with a MK3 pretty easily, especially if you have the upgraded Gunnery levels to prevent overheating. Polar Coil is also very useful for this.

 

Also, if you have Particle Ram, you should be boosting into the fighter packs often and cruising forward into them for the extra damage. I can solo Veil missions in about 15 minutes without using any gimmicks like Void Hole or Munitions Vortex. I personally use a Cryo MK3 for my forward turret, and it will 1-2 shot them without problem.

[vanaukas]

25 minutes ago, akrid45 said:

Clearly something wrong with your build then and not the enemies 

Maybe

4 minutes ago, HoustonDragon said:

Are you using the Hyperstrike Turret damage Avionics? Upgraded? You should be tearing through fighters with a MK3 pretty easily, especially if you have the upgraded Gunnery levels to prevent overheating. Polar Coil is also very useful for this.

 

Also, if you have Particle Ram, you should be boosting into the fighter packs often and cruising forward into them for the extra damage. I can solo Veil missions in about 15 minutes without using any gimmicks like Void Hole or Munitions Vortex. I personally use a Cryo MK3 for my forward turret, and it will 1-2 shot them without problem.

I don't remember at that time what I was using, but always put speed and defense first, now I'm running hyperstrike and polar coil. I didn't use combat avionics (now I do)

1 hour ago, Vit0Corleone said:

Don't know what kind of setup are you running, but I'm curious, because while you were taking 40 minutes, I was taking 7-8 minutes, and others way less than that - Solo.

This before the revised update. Now it's considerable faster, not so much because of the nerf on the enemies, but because of the way they changed how spawns work - closer to us, and faster to spawn.

Before it used to take 1-3 seconds to take down a fighter, and now it's, well, maybe 1-2 seconds ? Such a monumental difference right? They were such bullet sponges, how dare you DE making me waste an entire second.

Not that it matters that much, because both before and after the update, we relied mostly on abilities to destroy entire spawns of ships and not so much the guns.

I'm glad that it feels better for you now, but the scenario you are describing isn't really accurate, especially not for the players that did put some effort into acquiring good equipment and building up their player skills to tackle the hardest content available in the game.

Before the revised update:

 

 

Because I didn't use battle avionics. I don't have munitions vortex,void hole or anything, now I have particle ram.

At that time was easier for me hiding the ship and just going in archwing. 

[HoustonDragon]

1 minute ago, xHeretic said:

I don't remember at that time what I was using, but always put speed and defense first, now I'm running hyperstrike and polar coil. I didn't use combat avionics (now I do)

Speed, Armor, and Hull upgrades are great. Ignore the Shield ones, as shields tend to get destroyed way too quickly to even worry about them. The Revolite reduction one is also excellent, since they upped the cost of repairs.

 

Since the patch, it's not feasible to run and hide the Railjack at distance, since Crewships will spawn too nearby to safely leave it. Focus on taking out the fighters, disable Crewships, and shoot down any Ramsleds (listen for the pinging noise if they are nearby). Particle Ram is awesome especially when you boost slam into fighter packs to destroy them 😄

[vanaukas]

Just now, HoustonDragon said:

Speed, Armor, and Hull upgrades are great. Ignore the Shield ones, as shields tend to get destroyed way too quickly to even worry about them. The Revolite reduction one is also excellent, since they upped the cost of repairs.

 

Since the patch, it's not feasible to run and hide the Railjack at distance, since Crewships will spawn too nearby to safely leave it. Focus on taking out the fighters, disable Crewships, and shoot down any Ramsleds (listen for the pinging noise if they are nearby). Particle Ram is awesome especially when you boost slam into fighter packs to destroy them 😄

Yeah, that avionic for revolite is amazing, even more now we have mroe exp for repairing things. But I don't have any trouble now, finally I was able to properly combat on my railjack without sacrificing speed or defenses. I forgot to not use the shield one, I'll probably run Predator instead that.

[Vit0Corleone]

9 minutes ago, xHeretic said:

Maybe

I don't remember at that time what I was using, but always put speed and defense first, now I'm running hyperstrike and polar coil. I didn't use combat avionics (now I do)

Because I didn't use battle avionics. I don't have munitions vortex,void hole or anything, now I have particle ram.

At that time was easier for me hiding the ship and just going in archwing. 

You can buy those avionics from other players, if you feel the grind is too much and don't want to bother with farming them.

You know, same as with regular Warframe mods etc. You wouldn't expect a new player without quite a few rare mods to just go fast run through Void missions, as you wouldn't expect a new player to Railjack to speed run Veil with sub par gear/avios.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

You know we've been running the same maps for seven years now, so when DE does a Jupiter Rework it is met with accolades from the community because DE has alleviated the visual monotony regardless of the movement system that feels so good while providing a new adventure out of the same old maze we've been toiling in.

This is being applied to the Corporus ship tiles and that is good thing. It feels now that same sort of change is needed for the enemy. Now De could make all new enemy units and they do, they are adding a new faction in the Sentients..this all good as well, ...

...but what really has to happen is the Enemy for an end game experience needs to be like the tile sets in randomization, and that is in Kuva Lichs with varying differing parts, outlines, immunities and powers, but being applied to all the units so each and every time you enter a map it's never going to be the same when it comes to what is dwelling in them as per the faction in control of it...this goes for the Eidolons as well...

Having varying enemies that you never know what they are going to bring to the fight would be one way to shake up and end game option...it would be like facing off against a room full of Galleon captains all having different powers and weapons with their own riven effects always shifting in each mission. This would be one way to push towards a self sustaining end game loop...but it will always come down to rewards and time. So if those rewards don't match a fifteen minute slog in an exterminate then its dead on arrival.

Edited May 6, 2020 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[(PSN)GbHaseo]

8 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

I agree. I'm just taking into account the other 80% of the community lol. 

Gotta start with the kid gloves I guess. Although it would be awesome to just throw random sentient giants in fights to watch everyone freak out. "Wtf is this DE? We're not ready for this, because we still have mote amps and no ways unlocked. Thanks for forcing use to use something other than a Bramma and warframe geez!"

Yeah, I guess I just never understood ppl getting upset bc they couldn't do a small part of a game. Like in ESO, there's a lot of raids and dungeon challenges that, I'm never gonna be able to do. I just don't have the skill and friend set to do them. I miss out on some cool skins, and titles, but that's ok. In Destiny, I suck at PvP, I'm never getting Trials gear, or a few of the hard weapons for competitive PvP. That's ok to me too.

Not every piece of content needs to be accessible for me. I am not the sole player of a game. As long as there's a healthy mix of content and rewards, which WF has plenty of accessible content and rewards. I see no issue.

Will there ever be an endgame in WF? Doubt it, mainly bc the reward structure and how OP we are doesn't really allow it. Kuva weapons, and Rivens are basically the only random stat rewards in the game to grind. Arcanes were a good reward, but that pool has been peed in with SS.

 

[vanaukas]

3 hours ago, Vit0Corleone said:

You can buy those avionics from other players, if you feel the grind is too much and don't want to bother with farming them.

You know, same as with regular Warframe mods etc. You wouldn't expect a new player without quite a few rare mods to just go fast run through Void missions, as you wouldn't expect a new player to Railjack to speed run Veil with sub par gear/avios.

Nah, I like to farm that kind of stuff, right now I have 0 trouble killing things with railjack, I just have to get good at this point, will happen some day, probably before intrinsincs 10 on everything (right now I have 8-8-7-7)