Clan wars/Alliance wars

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Yeah I always like to see both more and new content. I just dont find WF as a suitable platform to (re)introduce PvP. So if they can introduce a mode that actually brings me more of the fix I seek in WF, which is PvE, then I'm all for it. My point is just that they should leave PvP modes for the games that actually have a foundation for it, WF doesnt have to cover everything the gaming industry has to offer. WF is one of few games I actually enjoy without an option for PvP, and I can count those few games on one hand.

So, just to be clear...Content that is marketed specifically towards you is fine. But content marketed for other players is not fine?

[DrivaMain]

1 hour ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

So, just to be clear...Content that is marketed specifically towards you is fine. But content marketed for other players is not fine?

The Warframe community will never accept PvP and will do their best to convince DE to not to invest on it. Just accept it. You can see anytime the word "PvP" comes out everyone loses their %E^$%. You can say PvP is basically taboo at this point.

[(PSN)Jason_V_Jade]

Clan vs clan/faction?

No thanks, I didn't join WF for pvp.

Besides small clans would be destroyed by larger ones or forced to join a large one.

There are many dojos with one to just a small handful of players who would stand no chance.

Like myself my dojo/clan has a few people in it, as it was made for family and close friends.

Then we have larger clans with what could be 100% larger invading small ones, for what?

"glory?"

There is no glory or honor going after smaller clans.

[SneakyErvin]

9 hours ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

So, just to be clear...Content that is marketed specifically towards you is fine. But content marketed for other players is not fine?

No, content marketed for the majority of the community. In WF's case that would be different types of PvE content since that is what the game is at the core while having several failed attempts at PvP already. 

I'm a very big PvP player myself, been so since I was a kid starting out with Street Fighter and Blades of Steel (yeah yeah sports game, but it is still player versus player i.e competition with other physical people) and it has followed me since then. But when I play a game where PvP wouldnt fit in I definently dont go begging for it since it wouldnt be provided to my standards or expectations. Would it be cool if we could have it in WF? Hell yeah! Is it something that can actually turn out well enough to be worth it? Uh no.

I've played all forms of PvP throughout the years, castle sieges/frontiers in DaoC, WaR, GW2, taken part in world pvp of SWG, WoW, ToR and ArcheAge, played an unhealthy amount of BGs in GW2, ToR, DaoC and WoW been a ganking SoB in most games that gave me the opportunity, been a massive fan of the Battlefield frenchise since 1942 (OG Vietnam is the best of all the releases), loved the massive amount of opportunities for shenannigans in those games aswell as being able to sit down and be straight serious. I think I perfected my asshattery in BF3 on the CTF maps. I was also a huge fan of the original Halo game and I still miss C&C Renegade as if it was a relative that died on me. The only types of PvP that never got me hooked were MOBAs and BR, and the PvP of RTS games.

Comparing the experiences of those games with the potential of WF PvP I have to give the idea of WF PvP two big thumbs down.

[Methanoid]

until they make sweeping additions to the clan/alliance system then anything they add now would just be as plain/simple and rubbish as dark sectors pathetic attempt, they cant just bolt-in another crappy basic gamemode without having a way to actually be able to challenge other clans/alliances, currently you cant even tell what alliance another player is in never mind challenging one.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Methanoid

[-BG-StormFighter117]

12 hours ago, (PS4)Jason_V_Jade said:

Clan vs clan/faction?

No thanks, I didn't join WF for pvp.

Besides small clans would be destroyed by larger ones or forced to join a large one.

There are many dojos with one to just a small handful of players who would stand no chance.

Like myself my dojo/clan has a few people in it, as it was made for family and close friends.

Then we have larger clans with what could be 100% larger invading small ones, for what?

"glory?"

There is no glory or honor going after smaller clans.

First off, 1 member clans are not real clans. 

While in the previous Dark Sector system, yes there where clans turned away due to size, but forced to merge? I've never actually ever seen it happen. Which makes me want to say that it won't happen. There was offers to merge back then as there is now, but it's extremely rare and always optional as everything is.

When you say "small clans would be destroyed by larger ones" there is an alliance feature purely made for Dark Sectors. As mentioned, some clans got turned away due to size, but almost all other alliances accepted everyone and anyone. Activity was the main factor.

Did you know there is PvP in Warframe right now? Do you play it? No? That's fine you don't have to. In a large scale endgame where everyone and everything is required, there should be plenty of PvE elements involved. You don't have to play PvP for something like this to come to Warframe. In fact, having something like this would provide a purpose to PvE as there is now an endgame objective.

[shadowstormr]

I see a lot of essentialist arguments thrown around that warframe can never have pvp or never was meant for pvp or majority will never accept pvp while I've seen pvp work in this game way back when. Pvp and pve portions of the game were well segregated and the clan system acted a bridge. The idea of solar rail conflicts was a solid one that played the strengths of both sides of the game. It needed time, balancing and polish like the rest of the game. No one's fun is going to get marred because some people would enjoy doing pvp and even dominate the segment. The toxicity that exists now after the introduction of eidolons and rivens were absolutely non-existent. Yes there were issues with certain alliances acting shady but the devs have and had very good systems to put a stop to that. After the armistice dojo duels were the most fun and exciting things to participate in and people joined to test their mettle even without the promise of any prize or glory and it lead to good bonds among participating clans and alliances. I lived through all that lol. It never ruined anyone's joy of running pve and it never lead to toxicity outside of what is inevitable from people butting heads, which again was nothing compared to what you get from pve tryhards.

Face it, it was more work that was worth for the devs and thus they scuttled it to save them manhours dedicated to balancing the system. I don't know if they are ever going to touch pvp again unless it comes to a point where the appeal of pvp would be required from a profit perspective. Pve is always going to run up to the issues of powercreep, grind, monotony but the dynamism of pvp allows room for longer lasting fun. I'm not sure the game I joined back in 2015 is the same game the devs are making anymore, the core philosophy has changed quite drastically.

And I know I keep bringing up the point of clan/alliance cohesion but I can't really mention it enough. After your recruits tire of tridolons and things they can't just solo, they don't have anything to look forward to. They may stay in the clan because of friendships they make or because they like you but without an ever-challenging facet of the game, they have no reason to log back every day. Days become weeks become months become years. And I'm not asking for a neverending high of running a competitive clan either, things end after a certain point but for warframe things end way too fast. This also feeds into the endgame issue this game has, which is whole another can of worms I'm not gonna touch

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by shadowstormr

[DrivaMain]

5 minutes ago, shadowstormr said:

Face it, it was more work that was worth for the devs and thus they scuttled it to save them manhours dedicated to balancing the system. I don't know if they are ever going to touch pvp again unless it comes to a point where the appeal of pvp would be required from a profit perspective.

A Combination of too much work and lack of majority player interest to the point of despising it. With the phasing of PvP mods to NW Series 3 onwards, I have a feeling they will pull the plug on Conclave in the near future. 

The reason people don’t want DE to invest on PvP is they will slow down PvE updates quantity and quality just to satisfy a minority. Before you said DE is a large studio of 300 people, you forget that Customer Support, Marketing, Janitors, Building care takers, etc is also part of the 300 people. I believe only less than 100 people that actually worked on the game counting programmers and art team. 

For clarification I am not a PvE purist, I main Sniper and Spy in TF2 (Recently returned to the game after quitting 4 years ago and cashed out inventory) and and a former McCree main in Overwatch (I quit OW due to toxicity and will never return again). 

[shadowstormr]

I

1 minute ago, DrivaMain said:

A Combination of too much work and lack of majority player interest to the point of despising it. With the phasing of PvP mods to NW Series 3 onwards, I have a feeling they will pull the plug on Conclave in the near future. 

The reason people don’t want DE to invest on PvP is they will slow down PvE updates quantity and quality just to satisfy a minority. Before you said DE is a large studio of 300 people, you forget that Customer Support, Marketing, Janitors, Building care takers, etc is also part of the 300 people. I believe only less than 100 people that actually worked on the game counting programmers and art team. 

For clarification I am not a PvE purist, I main Sniper and Spy in TF2 (Recently returned to the game after quitting 4 years ago and cashed out inventory) and and a former McCree main in Overwatch (I quit OW due to toxicity and will never return again). 

I've never said DE is a large studio ? I know they are too small to even properly manage the pve content they are putting out right now. I strongly believe they need to expand their studio to even get the pve releases to a respectable state.

[-BG-StormFighter117]

So far, from what I have observed from this thread and many others is...

• PvP doesn't work in Warframe (Which I still believe does, just not the way Conclave is made)

But, the main focus of this thread imo...

• You'd like to see a clan/alliance territory conflict wars

From what I have read, people are only disagreeing with it due to PvP, although, still accepting the idea of Dark Sectors as long as there is an absents of PvP. I certainly would like to see something like this but with PvP. Perhaps something bigger than some baby steps will be needed in order for it to one day be PvP. I think we're focusing too much onto the possible PvP aspect of this and perhaps we should be asking for the simple raw mechanic which is still introducing end game.

The first iteration of Dark Sectors was PvE sabotage and eventually became mobile defense. This later become the PvP game mode a lot of people enjoyed (at least those who owned the dark sectors -which was a lot of people- and others who frequently participated.)

The underlying fact of the matter which several of us have agreed, Warframe needs something that provides a player made source of content which that creates purpose and meaning to tie everything Warframe together.

Edited May 11, 2020 by -BG-StormFighter117

[(PSN)Jason_V_Jade]

As long as it isn't mandatory to the game story mode and doesn't affect players in any way shape or form who want nothing to do with it then I'd be fine with it.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Jason_V_Jade said:

As long as it isn't mandatory to the game story mode and doesn't affect players in any way shape or form who want nothing to do with it then I'd be fine with it.

Literally nobody is asking for Dark Sector Conflicts to be made mandatory. That would hurt the feelings of far too many hyper casual players that play this game.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

On 2020-05-09 at 1:49 PM, SneakyErvin said:

In WF's case that would be different types of PvE content

Ironic, most people complain about how warframe doesn't have an endgame. It's true. Warframe doesn't have an endgame because it is a PvE game. Inherently limited by its own foundations. You will always be more powerful than anything DE can come up with. If they release content, you will beat it in 30 minutes and then complain how hard/easy it was on the forums while never touching it again.

On 2020-05-09 at 1:49 PM, SneakyErvin said:

I'm a very big PvP player myself

On 2020-05-09 at 1:49 PM, SneakyErvin said:

Comparing the experiences of those games with the potential of WF PvP I have to give the idea of WF PvP two big thumbs down

Irrelevant, you haven't even tried. You've passed judgement on something without ever giving it a chance. 

[SneakyErvin]

On 2020-05-12 at 2:11 AM, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

Ironic, most people complain about how warframe doesn't have an endgame. It's true. Warframe doesn't have an endgame because it is a PvE game. Inherently limited by its own foundations. You will always be more powerful than anything DE can come up with. If they release content, you will beat it in 30 minutes and then complain how hard/easy it was on the forums while never touching it again.

Irrelevant, you haven't even tried. You've passed judgement on something without ever giving it a chance. 

"Warframe doesnt have endgame because it is a PvE game", what? All PvE games have endgame, it isnt a limiting factor. WF's setup of systems is their limiting factor.

And no it isnt irrelevant that I've PvPed for the last 25 years or so. That simply means knowledge about PvP in general across different games.

Also, I have tried PvP here. I tried a couple of matches a few months after I started and it simply wasnt my cup of tea. Why it isnt showing I have no clue about. It could be because I quiit out of the matches before they were finished since the game explained very little regarding modding etc. for PvP along with getting a few bad connections. That makes WF a unique case for me since quitting out from PvP happens so very rarely for me. Heck even Marvel Heroes that had some of the S#&$tiest and cheesiest PvP managed to hold me through the few full games I played. Otherwise when I tend to quit out is if I end up in backfill games that are already losses.

If the PvP cant attract someone that already is a big PvP fan then the mode is obviously struggling in many ways. I think the thing I disliked most was the twitchy speed gameplay of WF. That isnt what I look for in a PvP game. And second dislike being small boring arena maps along with small teams.

Lunaro I never tried because I'm not looking for sports in WF and I think I'd just be let down due to comparing it to Huttball if I played it.

[-BG-StormFighter117]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

"Warframe doesnt have endgame because it is a PvE game", what? All PvE games have endgame, it isnt a limiting factor. WF's setup of systems is their limiting factor.

And no it isnt irrelevant that I've PvPed for the last 25 years or so. That simply means knowledge about PvP in general across different games.

Also, I have tried PvP here. I tried a couple of matches a few months after I started and it simply wasnt my cup of tea. Why it isnt showing I have no clue about. It could be because I quiit out of the matches before they were finished since the game explained very little regarding modding etc. for PvP along with getting a few bad connections. That makes WF a unique case for me since quitting out from PvP happens so very rarely for me. Heck even Marvel Heroes that had some of the S#&$tiest and cheesiest PvP managed to hold me through the few full games I played. Otherwise when I tend to quit out is if I end up in backfill games that are already losses.

If the PvP cant attract someone that already is a big PvP fan then the mode is obviously struggling in many ways. I think the thing I disliked most was the twitchy speed gameplay of WF. That isnt what I look for in a PvP game. And second dislike being small boring arena maps along with small teams.

Lunaro I never tried because I'm not looking for sports in WF and I think I'd just be let down due to comparing it to Huttball if I played it.

The twitchy and verticals gameplay can be fixed, it’s a known problem for the entirety of casual players as they cannot aim or move, and don’t intend to drop hours into learning how. A Mcree main yourself should have a blast in conclave as you already have the innate mindset. Myself being one too. Map wise, Dark Sectors can solve this too as it would have objectives this includes a tile set to accommodate. Not a mini game on the side of your ship. I’m sure you would of enjoyed the old Dark Sector PvP as it was slower and horizontal play while in a larger map with objectives and AI. 

as for your stats, to my knowledge, unless you played in private mode all kills and deaths should track regardless of leaving. It tracked the old conclave, Dark Sectors, and current conclave kills. So the stats stand in saying you haven’t played it publicly. Let’s say it was a one off, the next matches should fix it which still says you haven’t played it at all still.

[SneakyErvin]

6 minutes ago, -BG-StormFighter117 said:

The twitchy and verticals gameplay can be fixed, it’s a known problem for the entirety of casual players as they cannot aim or move, and don’t intend to drop hours into learning how. A Mcree main yourself should have a blast in conclave as you already have the innate mindset. Myself being one too. Map wise, Dark Sectors can solve this too as it would have objectives this includes a tile set to accommodate. Not a mini game on the side of your ship. I’m sure you would of enjoyed the old Dark Sector PvP as it was slower and horizontal play while in a larger map with objectives and AI. 

as for your stats, to my knowledge, unless you played in private mode all kills and deaths should track regardless of leaving. It tracked the old conclave, Dark Sectors, and current conclave kills. So the stats stand in saying you haven’t played it publicly. Let’s say it was a one off, the next matches should fix it which still says you haven’t played it at all still.

McCree main? No no no no no. Anyways, yes there are alot of things that could be solved. But should they really waste yet another try on something PvP related when the thing has already failed in several different forms. There have already been plenty of tries over the lifetime of the game, another would be nothing but beating the dead horse. Each try is a waste pool of resources and time that could be spent on something they know will be a bigger success or something completely new. If Dark Sector PvP ran on dedicated servers and had more "normal" movement, sure I might have enjoyed it. If it was PtP based like the rest of the game, then no.

It may have been private, not sure. All I know is it was on dedicated servers and not PtP. Though this was years ago and there are things I've played several times more that I cant recall even. So dont ask me to recall some bad experiences in conclave that I barely gave a crap about. And I will not go back and try it again.

[Felsagger]

On 2020-05-10 at 1:54 AM, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

Literally nobody is asking for Dark Sector Conflicts to be made mandatory. That would hurt the feelings of far too many hyper casual players that play this game.

 

Can you imagine these individuals in Gears of War Lobbies? They will endure less than 20 seconds. I can't imagine them in a Call of Duty server. They will get decimated in the game while they get insulted to no tomorrow for not having any skill. Aside from that they never understood the idea behind PVP at all. PVP is about skills, this game is about gear checking and hardware ownership. It's a farming game.

You don't know how much I would like dedicated servers for PVP in this game and a full revision of it. There are lots of ideas that could be implemented for many PVP modes in this game. But then you have people with anxiety of being nobody in a leader board. This is why DE was 'politely correct' evading the leader boards between clans, clan wars and conquest mode. I think DE stated it clearly, they are not putting any effort on the PVP aspect of War Frame. They are trying to evade confrontations between players. Such thing could throws away potential customers that spend a lot in this game. 

I would be happy, more than happy to see solar rails make a comeback. There are many ways to make PVP in this game other than the traditional classics of capture the flag, free for all or the team frag scores. A team oriented tower PVP would be great with minions. :3

[-BG-StormFighter117]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

McCree main? No no no no no. Anyways, yes there are alot of things that could be solved. But should they really waste yet another try on something PvP related when the thing has already failed in several different forms. There have already been plenty of tries over the lifetime of the game, another would be nothing but beating the dead horse. Each try is a waste pool of resources and time that could be spent on something they know will be a bigger success or something completely new. If Dark Sector PvP ran on dedicated servers and had more "normal" movement, sure I might have enjoyed it. If it was PtP based like the rest of the game, then no.

It may have been private, not sure. All I know is it was on dedicated servers and not PtP. Though this was years ago and there are things I've played several times more that I cant recall even. So dont ask me to recall some bad experiences in conclave that I barely gave a crap about. And I will not go back and try it again.

I’ll admit conclave needs a lot work more than just balancing imo. I’ve always seen it as a mini game and not a large part of Warframe. For a mini game it still does and did well aside from the current cheese which DE has not fixed for months.

Dark Sector PvP was very successful despite its issues. Teamed together with the endgame, community building, etc, I can assure you the 5 man DE Dark Sector team was very worth it. Thousands of players, and I don’t mean 10k, talking about 30-60k left the game completely. Hundreds of clans struggled the long months after armistice, the bigger clans are those who survived and they recruited for raids. The next blow hit them in the gut and finished most of them off. Many of these players were whales buying access for themselves and others, spending plat to get mods they missed from playing to much Dark Sectors. Community wide events, competitions, and giveaways were a lot more common where prizes were given and won. Imagine being a new player and joining the clan to be gifted frame and sentinel bundles. The carrier and Helios bundles were a popular choice to new players. In terms of how worth, it was very worth. Imo, those players spent far more on the game than anyone. Imagine spending 4K plat for 150k plastids. 4K plat at the time was a lot. I think primed chamber was 5-15k as a ballpark estimate.

 

my mistake if I confused you with someone else about the Mcree main.

Edited May 12, 2020 by -BG-StormFighter117

[SneakyErvin]

5 minutes ago, -BG-StormFighter117 said:

I’ll admit conclave needs a lot work more than just balancing imo. I’ve always seen it as a mini game and not a large part of Warframe. For a mini game it still does and did well aside from the current cheese which DE has not fixed for months.

Dark Sector PvP was very successful despite its issues. Teamed together with the endgame, community building, etc, I can assure you the 5 man DE Dark Sector team was very worth it. Thousands of players, and I don’t mean 10k, talking about 30-60k left the game completely. Hundreds of clans struggled the long months after armistice, the bigger clans are those who survived and they recruited for raids. The next blow hit them in the gut and finished most of them off. Many of these players were whales buying access for themselves and others, spending plat to get mods they missed from playing to much Dark Sectors. Community wide events, competitions, and giveaways were a lot more common where prizes were given and won. Imagine being a new player and joining the clan to be gifted frame and sentinel bundles. The carrier and Helios bundles were a popular choice to new players. In terms of how worth, it was very worth. Imo, those players spent far more on the game than anyone. Imagine spending 4K plat for 150k plastids. 4K plat at the time was a lot. I think primed chamber was 5-15k as a ballpark estimate.

 

my mistake if I confused you with someone else about the Mcree main.

Well then sustaining Dark Sectors aswell as raids have been more costly than losing players it seems, because DE doesnt seem to worry that those players left. If it was a big blow to them they would have cracked down on fixing both DS and raids to bring those big spenders back.

[Felsagger]

On 2020-05-09 at 12:09 AM, DrivaMain said:

The Warframe community will never accept PvP and will do their best to convince DE to not to invest on it. Just accept it. You can see anytime the word "PvP" comes out everyone loses their heads. You can say PvP is basically taboo at this point.

Yes, but is sad at the same time. A bit of competition is a reality check on many things including technique, game play and proficiency with the gear. But this game was not meant for PVP the right way. In order to see PVP working is with dedicated servers and no rewards. Rewards only will be available on PVE. Special mods for PVP can be earned elsewhere so everybody has equal opportunities with the gear. 

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

11 hours ago, Felsagger said:

I would be happy, more than happy to see solar rails make a comeback. There are many ways to make PVP in this game other than the traditional classics of capture the flag, free for all or the team frag scores. A team oriented tower PVP would be great with minions. :3

That's essentially what the Solar Rail Battles were. The defending team had towers and minions while the offensive team had to beat those and complete the objectives. It was pretty fun. And it was awesome fighting all of the different kinds of specters that were on both teams.

[Felsagger]

24 minutes ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

That's essentially what the Solar Rail Battles were. The defending team had towers and minions while the offensive team had to beat those and complete the objectives. It was pretty fun. And it was awesome fighting all of the different kinds of specters that were on both teams.

The more assets this game gain, the more real I see the project of solar rails. There are many ways doing PVP the right way. It can be the classical LOL style tower defense with minions with all the aspects of tower defense and offense. The node can be challenged at any time but they need to do a time limit. You know what game solved that problem, Titan Fall 2 PVP where even losing you may win the match. This game used minions and supporting units except tower defense. 

It's strange but League of Legends solved one of the hardest problems on PVP match making. No wonder why their formula attained billions of dollars leaving them with the development of that game. Riot Games provided a school for PVP. 

PVP may be interesting on certain game modes where War Frame are stripped of certain abilities but these could be used by getting energy or dropped hardware when a partial goal is achieved. Or simply run and gun, run and melee among many other things. Can you imagine a versus rescue where you have to defend your agent while the other team rescue theirs. The first to escape get the points. A lot can happen on those matches. 

War Frame has ALL the game types ready to be converted into PVP matches. Capture messages can be a PVP match. That would be incredibly insane. Team work and team speak would be mandatory. War Frame can do what many other games may dream off even the game Over Watch. With few teaks, the infrastructure, models, levels, frames everything is there to create PVP matches that can even make the best players burst an artery due to the high intensity in them. 

DE has the talent but the problem is the discipline needed in order to make them work. You have the toxicity, drama, cheaters and hackers. That alone needs a 24/7 over watch over these matches. My best guess are dedicated servers where there are no rewards and a list of friends are invited to it. This game has the tools. Just a separated module that doesn't affect player progression, player scores on the PVE events and rewards where not given other than testing their skills in these arenas. 

But DE would have more than three fronts. They would have to deal with departments. Rail Jack, Single player campaign, Open world arenas, game modes for PVE and lore. On top of that add another team dedicated to PVP working all the time on levels, game modes and situational gaming where PVP happens. We are seeing Digital extremes as a triple A developer. 

I wouldn't mind of such thing happens. I would be more than happy. DE got the balls to survive all these years trapped with us. I think they are more than ready for it. Besides LUNARO IS SIMPLY AN AMAZING IDEA. I'm sad that such idea where not able to lift off because of our activity. I'm trying to learn LUNARO. But again if we have dedicated servers, PVP pushes the game and maybe, we could get a heavy income of players. In other words War Frame reaches the big leagues without sacrificing what War Frame is. 

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

23 hours ago, Felsagger said:

epic post 

I've always been more of a fan of the metagame behind Dark Sectors, rather than the gameplay itself. There are many ways to implement PvP/PvE into Dark Sectors. As long as they bring back the territory control aspects on a Clan/Alliance level, I will be satisfied.

[-BG-StormFighter117]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

I've always been more of a fan of the metagame behind Dark Sectors, rather than the gameplay itself. There are many ways to implement PvP/PvE into Dark Sectors. As long as they bring back the territory control aspects on a Clan/Alliance level, I will be satisfied.

Edited May 14, 2020 by -BG-StormFighter117

[MikeVodka]

ICE #1