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ImagineWhales

Clan wars/Alliance wars

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On 2020-05-06 at 11:55 AM, ImagineWhales said:

Just as the title says i know that once upon a time warframe had this feature but was taken away. 
I think it would be an amazing thing to have this feature again as players can fight each other (excluding conclave) for territory/rewards and maybe wreck each others clan dojo.

I am really curious as to what other players think about the whole idea of this.

I like this idea a lot it would be very creative. Through maybe not including the  the dojo’s in the mix since people work hard to make those. Maybe more like an open area on a planet node.

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Posted (edited)
On 2020-05-06 at 2:55 PM, ImagineWhales said:

Just as the title says i know that once upon a time warframe had this feature but was taken away. 
I think it would be an amazing thing to have this feature again as players can fight each other (excluding conclave) for territory/rewards and maybe wreck each others clan dojo.

I am really curious as to what other players think about the whole idea of this.

6 hours ago, (NSW)JJA209 said:

I like this idea a lot it would be very creative. Through maybe not including the  the dojo’s in the mix since people work hard to make those. Maybe more like an open area on a planet node.

Well actually, when Dark Sectors was first on the table, many, like almost everyone at the time thought it would be awesome to fight each other in dojo's like what @ImagineWhales is saying. Essentially where you use their dojo as a tileset. When Dark Sectors did come out it worked similarly with a Schema. It was 3 rooms in succession, where the middle room was customizable changing the rooms objective like hacking kiosks or open and destroy several reactor canister type things.

You could also change the colours of the rooms like in the dojo and you could place defenses in the form of decorations. This would be turrets and specter spawn locations (Really just a tp area)

It excites me to see players once again having the initial idea players had years ago about the topic 🙂

Edited by -BG-StormFighter117
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Think what we can all agree on is that clans and alliances need something competitive that isnt a once a year event. We need something engaging that brings players together. Dark sectors could be exactly what we need right now. Whether or not its pvp or pve doesn't matter to me (although incorporating both would be nice), just something to strive towards.

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On 2020-05-15 at 7:23 AM, (NSW)JJA209 said:

I like this idea a lot it would be very creative. Through maybe not including the  the dojo’s in the mix since people work hard to make those. Maybe more like an open area on a planet node.

Although I don't agree with the destroying dojos part, I do like his conflict system. Interestingly, in the old Dark Sectors you could customize your Solar Rail just like you would customize a room in the dojo. Your custom blueprint for a Solar Rail was called a Schema. That was a very cool concept and I would love for it to be expanded upon.

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Alliance/Clan wars (the dark sector conflicts) would bring so much value and meaning back to this game. Alliances, as of now, only exist to serve as a second region chat. I wish alliances had more meaning. A step like this will be one made in the right direction for Warframe.

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On 2020-05-17 at 9:27 PM, (PS4)sdaly96 said:

Think what we can all agree on is that clans and alliances need something competitive that isnt a once a year event. We need something engaging that brings players together. Dark sectors could be exactly what we need right now. Whether or not its pvp or pve doesn't matter to me (although incorporating both would be nice), just something to strive towards.

Clans absolutely died off because of no real competition. If this game wants to have an involved clan community, they need actual clan vs clan competition. This would also give the game some endgame. When the bots no longer make adequate opponents, only other players can suffice. That's why I also believe that DE should add PvE and PvP clan vs clan activities.

We need this DE, why wont you listen?

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On 2020-05-19 at 3:41 AM, (XB1)TheLastDax said:

Alliance/Clan wars (the dark sector conflicts) would bring so much value and meaning back to this game. Alliances, as of now, only exist to serve as a second region chat. I wish alliances had more meaning. A step like this will be one made in the right direction for Warframe.

I agree. It's pretty weird to me. Alliances solely existed for Dark Sector Conflicts, they serve no other function in the game. It would be fantastic if DE gave us something to work towards.

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On 2020-05-19 at 5:06 AM, -Degu said:

Clans absolutely died off because of no real competition. If this game wants to have an involved clan community, they need actual clan vs clan competition. This would also give the game some endgame. When the bots no longer make adequate opponents, only other players can suffice. That's why I also believe that DE should add PvE and PvP clan vs clan activities.

We need this DE, why wont you listen?

With no outside force for clans to exert themselves upon, they eventually disintegrate. Competition is necessary for the existence of clans in in warframe.

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Posted (edited)

Thinking more about this and seeing as how we have the potential of squad link now. How about just adopting Crucible from Destiny 2 but using squad link due to not having dedicated servers like Destiny 2? That would mean that the host couldnt just rage quit and possibly force a host mig. It could still use the old DS setup, or even be tweaked so it becomes bigger than 4vs4. Different actions in a mission would result in different infractions for the enemy in their missions. Powerful mobs spawning, specific modifiers get activated and so on. And if it becomes bigger than a normal 4vs4 and instead relies on squad link so more teams can interact at the same time, it would also open up for the possibility of "merc" players that simply join a side for profit or because they hate a certain clan or alliance.

Edited by SneakyErvin
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2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Thinking more about this and seeing as how we have the potential of squad link now. How about just adopting Crucible from Destiny 2 but using squad link due to not having dedicated servers like Destiny 2? That would mean that the host couldnt just rage quit and possibly force a host mig. It could still use the old DS setup, or even be tweaked so it becomes bigger than 4vs4. Different actions in a mission would result in different infractions for the enemy in their missions. Powerful mobs spawning, specific modifiers get activated and so on. And if it becomes bigger than a normal 4vs4 and instead relies on squad link so more teams can interact at the same time, it would also open up for the possibility of "merc" players that simply join a side for profit or because they hate a certain clan or alliance.

Here is a game mode that was discussed a while ago that is similar to the Crucible idea for Conclave.

 

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3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Powerful mobs spawning,

Have you played Warframe? No mob is powerful. Not anymore. They even removed infinite scaling to make mobs at higher levels easier to kill.

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1 hour ago, -BG-StormFighter117 said:

Here is a game mode that was discussed a while ago that is similar to the Crucible idea for Conclave.

 

While the idea looks good, I wonder if it is remotely possible for WF to pull that off. The whole part with 3 tiles would work, but I dont get a clear picture of what he means regarding "no mods", if it is just while in the jungle or the whole game mode. If it is for the whole game mode it would work, but if it was dynamic depending on tile I have my doubts. And with no mods the mobs would need to be tweaked low. Just look at the outcries regarding getting grendel.

21 minutes ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

Have you played Warframe? No mob is powerful. Not anymore. They even removed infinite scaling to make mobs at higher levels easier to kill.

Did I say we were going to use current mobs as-is and just slap them in there? As with anything else that is an "endgame" idea we need massive overhauls across the game to even make it worthwhile to begin with.

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14 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Did I say we were going to use current mobs as-is and just slap them in there? As with anything else that is an "endgame" idea we need massive overhauls across the game to even make it worthwhile to begin with.

The Solar Rail Conflicts would not require a massive overhaul of the game, which is what this thread is about.

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7 minutes ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

The Solar Rail Conflicts would not require a massive overhaul of the game, which is what this thread is about.

You should probably read the OP again in that case since he asks for opinions on it. OG solar rails wouldnt work without a massive overhaul either. It was so long ago and the power we possess is even greater now. And nevermind that Solar Rail Conflicts never had to deal with parkour 2.0, nor was it designed with the possibility of operators or rivens etc. It also didnt follow the conclave setup for mods, weapons and frames, it had it's own system that in itself really wasnt balanced even at that point in time and far less now when primaries, secondaries, shotguns and snipers are more or less interchangable and have massive gaps within their respective classes.

They've released so many weapons, frames and new systems since solar rails were implemented aswell as shut down that a massive overhaul would indeed be needed for it to be reintroduced. At this point it is likely easier to just make a new system from scratch that is designed from the ground up with the current systems in mind. Trying to touch up on a legacy mode this many patches and years down the line would be a mess.

Nostalgia often clouds how you look at things.

 

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On 2020-05-24 at 6:49 AM, SneakyErvin said:

You should probably read the OP again in that case since he asks for opinions on it. OG solar rails wouldnt work without a massive overhaul either. It was so long ago and the power we possess is even greater now. And nevermind that Solar Rail Conflicts never had to deal with parkour 2.0, nor was it designed with the possibility of operators or rivens etc. It also didnt follow the conclave setup for mods, weapons and frames, it had it's own system that in itself really wasnt balanced even at that point in time and far less now when primaries, secondaries, shotguns and snipers are more or less interchangable and have massive gaps within their respective classes.

They've released so many weapons, frames and new systems since solar rails were implemented aswell as shut down that a massive overhaul would indeed be needed for it to be reintroduced. At this point it is likely easier to just make a new system from scratch that is designed from the ground up with the current systems in mind. Trying to touch up on a legacy mode this many patches and years down the line would be a mess.

Nostalgia often clouds how you look at things.

 

Well, the Solar Rail Conflicts had built in gear limitation in them (at least the PvEvP incarnation). You couldn't use aura mods, pads of any kind, sentinels/companions, some mods, arcane helmets had no effect etc. Wouldn't be too hard of a stretch to prevent the usage of operators.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

Well, the Solar Rail Conflicts had built in gear limitation in them (at least the PvEvP incarnation). You couldn't use aura mods, pads of any kind, sentinels/companions, some mods, arcane helmets had no effect etc. Wouldn't be too hard of a stretch to prevent the usage of operators.

It would still need a full rebalance pass of all weapons due to how even the classes now preform compared to eachother. It wouldnt work to have the dynamic moba-like in-mission leveling system and have different parameters between when a primary, secondary, shotgun/sniper or melee levels up. It would also need to be rebalanced to account for so many more mod combinations, or it would have to be reworked into just allowing conclave mods, while also rebalancing all npcs for that mode specifically to account for more or less modless builds.

And dont forget that all weapons have recieved some serious buffs over the years.

DE would also need to make a very easily accessible way for us to know exactly which things are allowed and how frames are different in that specific mode, and not go and do another conclave where you need to jump into games to actually know anything about what a frame can or cannot do differently from the normal game.

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On 2020-05-07 at 8:19 AM, DrivaMain said:

Old DS taxes the player who doesn’t own the node and we all know this sparks outrage because your effort is basically stolen without your consent. Not to mention some clans put ridiculous taxes if they own the node.

You 'consent' when you start the mission, no-one is ever forced to do anything in the game.  As for the clans setting downright abusive taxes you have two options: beat them or join them.

I'm actually playing devils advocate a little here, because the original dark sector PvP element was a total fustercluck and I've no wish to see it return.  I just didn't buy a lot of the outrage about the taxes.  My primary frustration was that the actual competition scaled poorly, and generally meant whoever had the highest zerg coefficient won almost by default.

On 2020-05-07 at 8:46 AM, _Malware said:

Correct. In my previous post I did state the old way was shoddy but dismissing a remastered system gets us nowhere. We should fix things not destroy them. 🙂

I think there's a real case to be made for introducing a competitive element (ideally not involving conclave style direct PvP) into Warframe.  But whatever it would be, just start fresh.  Old dark sector thing was almost universally hated, and anything that bears resemblance to it won't be given a fair shot anyway.

I also think clan v clan warfare is a bad idea in any capacity, since clans vary wildly in size, and the actual challenge of building and maintaining a dojo has long since had the teeth ripped out of it.

I'd maybe recommend a system like For Honour, where there are 3 (or however many) factions that players can pledge allegiance to as an individual, or maybe as a clan if that's the direction they really want to go.  These factions are ONLY really relevant to whatever this competitive element is, with rewards for victory being valuable but ideally non-unique.  Large quantities of resources, credits, endo or hard-to-acquire mods spring to mind.

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2 minutes ago, Hollow_Knight said:

As for the clans setting downright abusive taxes you have two options: beat them or join them.

Warframe is a casuals game, there is no way DE will do this unless they are willing to shut the casuals away (they are the biggest part of the playerbase). This move right here will breed high levels of elitism and toxicity. Some examples

1. Big clans or alliances with their massive EGO keep boasting in chat.

2. The big clans demands a insanely high join requirement. e.g Must donate X amount of resources or kick, inactivity for 3 days or kick. etc.

3. This will create some stress for the casuals and small clans because they are constantly harrased or squashed by the big clans to the point of quitting.

Just accept it, Dark Sectors will never come back. If it does, it will be PvE. DE has phased conclave mods to PvE. I am not surprised they will pull the plug on PvP in general.

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10 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Warframe is a casuals game, there is no way DE will do this unless they are willing to shut the casuals away (they are the biggest part of the playerbase). This move right here will breed high levels of elitism and toxicity. Some examples

1. Big clans or alliances with their massive EGO keep boasting in chat.

2. The big clans demands a insanely high join requirement. e.g Must donate X amount of resources or kick, inactivity for 3 days or kick. etc.

3. This will create some stress for the casuals and small clans because they are constantly harrased or squashed by the big clans to the point of quitting.

Just accept it, Dark Sectors will never come back. If it does, it will be PvE. DE has phased conclave mods to PvE. I am not surprised they will pull the plug on PvP in general.

Which is almost exactly what happened. 

Don't misunderstand: I do agree the Dark Sector mechanics were crap and have no desire (or indeed any expectation) to see them return. And as I said, any new competitive mode would need (in my opinion) to be indirect (read: PvE based).

What I was getting at, was that the primary backlash at the time was from players whining that their super-hardcore farming strategies on the dark sector nodes were being taken advantage of by lazy (albeit massive) alliances using sky-high taxes.  The primary complaint from the more casual players was more in the vein of: how do I compete with these super-hardcore clans and alliances, which in some cases became: "I have a fully researched clan so I should be able to win solar rail conflicts even though my clan is like 5 people".

All of this is made kind of redundant by the fact that the dark sectors are an irrelevance these days.  A lot of players do still use them but most meta savvy players have long since abandoned them in search of greener pastures.  Another excellent reason for any new competitive element to forget about them entirely and introduce something new.

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They'd have to overhaul the system to ever make solar rail conflicts interesting and not just heavily in favor of the clan/alliance in control of the dark sector node.  That was the reason they were garbage at first, the invading clan/alliance would not be able to compete in terms of resource rewards with the clan that had been sitting on the node for months on end accumulating a ton of resources off the tax they imposed.  Will it ever happen?  The answer may surprise you (soon.)  

Endgame?  In warframe?  By the time 'endgame' exists almost every warframe player who wants 'endgame' will have left.  Endgame in warframe is right clicking -> uninstall.  Or fashionframe.  We've been here for over 4 years waiting for endgame, but all that has happened is the game getting easier over that time and it will continue to be made easier is my guess.  

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11 minutes ago, (XB1)COA Altair said:

They'd have to overhaul the system to ever make solar rail conflicts interesting and not just heavily in favor of the clan/alliance in control of the dark sector node.  That was the reason they were garbage at first, the invading clan/alliance would not be able to compete in terms of resource rewards with the clan that had been sitting on the node for months on end accumulating a ton of resources off the tax they imposed.  Will it ever happen?  The answer may surprise you (soon.)  

Endgame?  In warframe?  By the time 'endgame' exists almost every warframe player who wants 'endgame' will have left.  Endgame in warframe is right clicking -> uninstall.  Or fashionframe.  We've been here for over 4 years waiting for endgame, but all that has happened is the game getting easier over that time and it will continue to be made easier is my guess.  

Endgame isn't always as clear cut as "I am Max Level and Must Find All The Legendary Minipets While I Wait For The Inevitably Overpriced Expansion". 

One could argue that Warframe's current Endgame is the Kuva Lich system, it features an endlessly repeatable mechanic with collectable and powerful gear as rewards, gear that gets incrementally better the more you find.  Sounds like every MMO endgame I've ever seen.  Or maybe it's the forma/modding system, or the Eidolon/Vallis Rep farm/reward cycles.

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On 2020-05-27 at 6:36 PM, (XB1)COA Altair said:

By the time 'endgame' exists almost every warframe player who wants 'endgame' will have left

Hitting the nail on the head here. Some of us will stick around forever though waiting on our endgame.

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