Discussion and Feedback on Hard Mode shown on devstream

[Krankbert]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb SneakyErvin:

Pugs are pugs, if you just want a certain type of player make a premade and be done with it.

There's a line where the hassle of dealing with pugs becomes bigger than the hassle of making a premade group. When that line is crossed more people start making premade groups instead of using matchmaking, which takes good players out of the matchmaking pool which makes pugs worse which leads more players to go for premade groups etc. until new players who join at the end of the death spiral are left to wonder why everyone in this game plays like crap. Also, every step of the way, there will be players who don't want to deal with premade groups or bad pugs and just leave. You can't just say "pugs are pugs". You want pugs to work. It's better for the game.

[--EC--Adrenaline]

il y a 7 minutes, MouadSaqui a dit :

Dude, they do it so the Devs can read feedback in one thread, Jeez -_-

I doubt any dev will ready any of the comments here, only what the forum moderators pass on probably.

[zehne]

1 hour ago, (PS4)lumen2ne1 said:

Yet the Kuva Bramma has a MR 15 requirement. Nice bullS#&$ straw man there. Yes you should have screenshot it because that was a miracle.
Edit: I stand corrected because you can actually use kuva weapons without meeting the MR requirement, but still bullS#&$ because you can't do liches without doing TWW and it requires at least MR5.

It's not a strawman, and i'm completely serious.  Like I said, should have screen shot it.  Maybe it wasn't MR4, maybe higher, but does MR5 vs MR4 really matter for my point? No.

From randomly trolling profiles in region I found:

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

The OP's point was that when you give new players access to 'end-game' inevitably it'll hurt their sense of progression/accomplishment and it'll lead to people asking for the dumbing down of said content because people always complain.  More people having access to content they really shouldn't be in will most definitely lead to more people asking for nerfing of said content.

[SoulEchelon]

27 minutes ago, --EC--Adrenaline said:

I doubt any dev will ready any of the comments here, only what the forum moderators pass on probably.

That's actually incorrect. The devs themselves have stated multiple times they read the forums and the moderators have stated they group up these threads both to keep the forums clean and to make it easier for the devs to read. The only things the devs don't read or ignore specifically are posts filled with vitriol that lack constructive criticism.

[Felsagger]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

That will not help the game at all since that isnt what players are looking for. Some out-of-ideas content creators may enjoy it so they can produce even more pointless videos of weapon showcases but what the players that actually play them game needs is an actual evolution of the star chart with rewards and the whole shebang.

You say there will be no alienation of the players or problems searching squads... how much didnt you actually think that comment through? What exactly is the difference in your mind between someone sitting in the Sim and not searching for a lowbie lith fissure on earth or someone sitting in a hard mode lith fissure on earth and not signing up to a lowbie lith fissure on earth? The end result is the exact same for matchmaking "issues" and possible alienation, the difference is that in situation two the guy sitting in a hard mode lith fissure will actually get rewarded while enjoying "harder" gameplay aswell. Gods forbid that he can actually have fun instead of babysitting a newbie in content that makes him fall asleep after one wave or one mission.

In neither of the two cases will the guys searching for a lowbie lith fissure see the guy doing hard mode. So it will not help matchmaking or counter "alienation" by stuffing hard mode behind a no reward Sim-deluxe version. It would however bring nothing good to the game at all since it wouldnt be actual content. Adding actual hard mode to the star map would bring us alot more usefulness since we'd actually be able to skip the extremely isolated thing that is Sim when we wanna test new builds, instead we'll be able to test them in live action scenarios that we can actually see and experience everywhere in the game after they add hard mode options.

What the ph_____ are you talking about?....lmao....

 

Having a simulacrum with all the star chat mission editable is something viable as a reward. The game remains untouched while people can simulate any difficulty without any pressure to lose, yell at each other or deal with squads issues. People will get those challenges just for fun without rewards or elitism. 

Other than that leveling few enemies up on missions will suffice. Besides this game is not for serious challenges, this is a farming game. For good challenges try something else. 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Felsagger

[GPrime96]

2 hours ago, zehne said:

The OP's point was that when you give new players access to 'end-game' inevitably it'll hurt their sense of progression/accomplishment and it'll lead to people asking for the dumbing down of said content because people always complain.  More people having access to content they really shouldn't be in will most definitely lead to more people asking for nerfing of said content.

And definitely need less of this happening. 

[GPrime96]

Insane Hard Mode would be about right for this Game's current high level, seriously. 

[NonBiri0816]

I hope they already considering the following things:

Normal/Elite Sanctuary Onslaught rewards change

Different move sets for the high level enemies.

Requirement for joining the high level missions. Preventing leeches XP farm in the high level missions. 

 

 

 

[sam686]

6 hours ago, SwitchCaseWF said:

players could be take a "Tag" that makes enemies feel like they are higher-leveled when in reality, you are weaker.

Maybe the "Tag" can be dragon keys. https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon_Key

Might want to see some better dragon key rewards other then Derelict vault runs or some veiled riven mod challenges.

[Avienas]

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Loot balancing would also be an issue, since they cant just change up drop tables or individual mob drops as they see fit depending on the level of them. Unless they make a very complicated system for the game that recognizes if you are weakened or not for a mission which would result in different drops and different rewards across the whole group.

Its called micro-boosters. They basically do it all the time with bought boosters, just apply the same logic as a specialized version of credit/affinity/resource/resource-dropchance booster. It would effectively be a tag enabled booster that only applies to those who take the modifier on, similar to dragon keys if one were to get picky at it. 

As for if they could make something for drop table loot, it could likely be a modifier to give a extra loot item and only apply to those with a hard mode tag in that way. Where droppable items would likely just go as far as maybe multiplying the quantity of particular items where once again, would likely stem mostly towards resources, endo, credits and what not. Since sadly as you stated, it might be a pain in the arse for them to do properly, unless its a separate instance and likely them giving something like droppable relics and what not.

Quote

Higher levels allow them to tailor that content seperately, like adding in the possibility for multiple rolls on cracked relics and whatnot if they ever decide on such a thing to reward playing "harder" content.

Based on how they stated it, they were likely just going to add levels and call it a day, which is obviously going to require a lot more to it then that. Which is likely just going to lean more to a affinity/resource game mode booster, since it was looking to only apply to NORMAL start-chart missions as far as i can tell. Very sure them applying hard mode to fissures, kuva lich missions, nightmare missions, invasions and so on is likely the least of thar concerns on such a system.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Avienas

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

On 2020-05-08 at 3:17 PM, JCDenton63 said:

if they added battle royale

Its not happening dude, get over it already, you already got a thread locked because you got salty. Let it go.

[DOOMPATRIOT]

En 8/5/2020 a las 14:04, Kaotyke dijo:

 

Man, I can't wait for the "Think of the Children" post and eventually DE making It happen...

Edited May 10, 2020 by DOOMPATRIOT

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

10 hours ago, (PS4)One_Angry_Goose said:

    Ship trophies are, admittedly, a bad idea. Hard mode is supposed to be an endgame, right? So, hear me out; if DE wants to give us a cosmetic reward, why not give us weapon ephemeras? Something flashy for players who, yknow, like killing things.

Im talking:

Unique kill effects: enemies turning into puddles of goo, crumbling into dust, vaporizing in a flash

Impact effects: leaving temporary energy filled cracks, a splatter of colorful goo, infested tumors

    Of course, these shouldn’t bee too intense. But just notable enough for hardcore players to show off. 
 

** If you like the idea alot, please spread the word!

Peculiar mods, retooled into weapon ephemera.

Like the "crits = flowers" mod.

 

 

I like this.. pec mods have been an abandoned concept for ages and need a redesign.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

No...

 

Ultra super crazy hyperspazstic funky TREMENDOUS darkness enhanced banana lord turbo turbotastic king big daddy difficulty mode.

Enemies start at level 1 and gain 74802e64729 levels per second.

 

 

 

Its 3am and i cant sleep.

[ES-Flinter]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Gabbynaru:

Or it should just be the same rewards as in normal missions. You're already getting more of them anyway since the spawns are higher and elite enemies will spawn more often. That's reward enough.

He is actually right with that point.

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Gabbynaru:

Or did everyone crying for a hard mode mean they wanted better drops instead? Cause they got the hard mode they've been crying like babies for, anything else is pure greed.

Just to know. Why are you so mad about it, that other got what they always wanted? It's not like that you are losing something.

[5p33dy_01]

On 2020-05-09 at 9:15 AM, kyori said:

My preference.. imo...

Hard mode starts from 100+

Ultra Hard mode starts from 200+

Extreme Hard mode starts from 200+... but with every stats doubled just like the old Railjack on-foot enemies.

NEW* Insane Hard mode starts from 500+ with every stats doubled just like the old Railjack on-foot enemies.

 

Level 50 is.... aiyo... not the least hard man. lol

 

23 hours ago, kyori said:

Yes just solo it. 

already in the game, and even customizable... defined by mods and weapons.

you want a challenge, play every mission like as if it was grendel components mission, with no mods equiped....

Please do it solo, we dont need to be literally carrying you the ENTIRE mission (by that i mean the CONSTANT revives).

 

 

On 2020-05-09 at 9:28 AM, Xaero said:

We need about a hundred different difficulty modes so that we never meet anyone in public games.

even if this was a thing, you would still meet people, as people would just go to the highest dificulty they feel comfortable on.
the only players you wouldnt meet is newbies, and to some degree is a good thing (hello 2x mr MR 9 and 1x MR 12 in sorties, who dont know how to hold a point in interception or no damage for disruption but activate all the pylons)

you will see this exact idea in Diablo 3...
BUT, they still have Greater Rifts, where you can start fighting enemies on higher levels.

to some degree its perfectly implemented (if you've played Diablo 3 you will know).
you have a base starting level of 70 which everyone joins in and then the party decides what level greater rift to start on.

my point is, even though you are trying to be sarcastic, some games actually have this, it works great and its not as bad as you are trying to make it out to be.

Edited May 10, 2020 by 5p33dy_01

[5p33dy_01]

12 hours ago, zurefox said:

Hi tennos! i wanna show you what i think about rewards

Normal drop:

A new way to farm RARE drops, what i mean?

10x Mutagen Sample drop(An Eximus Infested drop?)

10x Orokin cell/Argon Crystal(An Eximus corrupted drop?)

1x Nitain Extract(Mini boss/Boss drop?)

1x Mutagen Mass

1x Detonite Injector

1xFieldron

Rotation rewards
AXI RELICS[rad] and/or VAULT RELICS[rad](?) 

Rare avionics (Void hole for example)

300x Ducats

5000 Cryotic(?)

5000 Kuva

Riven Sliver.

5x Brilliant Eidolon Shard (Sentient Hard mode nodes)

12 Hours Resource Booster (Rare Reward rotation C)

1 Built Forma

Umbra Forma Bp(Rare Reward rotation C)

Orokin Catalyst Bp (Rare Reward rotation C)

And please! give us points or something like that to buy what we want (decorations and similar stuff), like scarlett creds or vitus essence.

 What do you think Tenno? let me know in the comments below 😄

this is purely a cry for drops increase, it has no relation to actual increased dificulty.

you already have every single one of these but some are more generous/common than others.
others are such a big impact that they need to be locked behind events AND only given 1 per event (hello Umbra Forma).. or maybe they thought the ridiculous cost to build they would put on it, would make people complain.

anyway...
this hard mode and ultra hard mode....

since you have not actually given ANY information on the actual dificulty side (only provided the greed side), how about you explain what this hard mode and ultra hard mode would comprise of?
i can probably guarantee that the dificulty you desire is already in the game and implemented to a greater level than you think.

[JackHargreav]

13 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

I don't know which games you are referring to, but all the loot-based games I've played scale rewards with difficulty and even lock high-level gear behind the higher difficulty settings.

Fair enough I guess. But Are you guys expecting every mission to give some sort of special reward like forma or kuva? Because we already have a lot of ways to get these. 

The only rewards I can think of are the arcanes. Since those can be only found in few mission types. And we have void traces but that's a fissure exclusive resource.

[Chainsaga]

When I saw the Homestream where they show the Hard Mode option in game, I see that it currently uses the usual option of selecting missions, meaning that:
1. Select Node
2. Select mission mode (kuva lich teritorry, nightmare, relics, kuva siphon, syndicate, etc)

I don't know how Hard Mode is implemented later when it released, but if it's like that, I think I got a better proposition.

So, I'm thinking that for Hard Mode and the Ultra Hard Mode as Scott calls it, it should be a toggle, like some kind of checklist or that sliding option like when choosing graphic settings on the UI to activate Hard Mode. That way, for players who finished the star chart, they don't have to pick a mission mode every time after selecting a node. So if you toggle the Hard Mode or Ultra Hard Mode, then automatically, every node will be in that difficulty.

Just a simple Quality of Life feedback

[-GC-Alex51-GC-]

3 minutes ago, Chainsaga said:

When I saw the Homestream where they show the Hard Mode option in game, I see that it currently uses the usual option of selecting missions, meaning that:
1. Select Node
2. Select mission mode (kuva lich teritorry, nightmare, relics, kuva siphon, syndicate, etc)

I don't know how Hard Mode is implemented later when it released, but if it's like that, I think I got a better proposition.

So, I'm thinking that for Hard Mode and the Ultra Hard Mode as Scott calls it, it should be a toggle, like some kind of checklist or that sliding option like when choosing graphic settings on the UI to activate Hard Mode. That way, for players who finished the star chart, they don't have to pick a mission mode every time after selecting a node. So if you toggle the Hard Mode or Ultra Hard Mode, then automatically, every node will be in that difficulty.

Just a simple Quality of Life feedback

Agree ) 

[kyori]

2 hours ago, 5p33dy_01 said:

already in the game, and even customizable... defined by mods and weapons.

you want a challenge, play every mission like as if it was grendel components mission, with no mods equiped....

Please do it solo, we dont need to be literally carrying you the ENTIRE mission (by that i mean the CONSTANT revives).

Can don't talk @#&$ or not like everyone else? People want to do very high level with best gear. Who doesn't know without mod etc will be difficult?

I mentioning doing mission solo and here you tell me to do solo. WTF? Of course I can solo that's why I am talking about solo. WTF? lmao

[kyori]

#*!% man, every time only stupid #*!% reply. More people to blocked. lmao

[SneakyErvin]

10 hours ago, Krankbert said:

There's a line where the hassle of dealing with pugs becomes bigger than the hassle of making a premade group. When that line is crossed more people start making premade groups instead of using matchmaking, which takes good players out of the matchmaking pool which makes pugs worse which leads more players to go for premade groups etc. until new players who join at the end of the death spiral are left to wonder why everyone in this game plays like crap. Also, every step of the way, there will be players who don't want to deal with premade groups or bad pugs and just leave. You can't just say "pugs are pugs". You want pugs to work. It's better for the game.

That also makes people learn. It is like that in every game. Gearscore in WoW for PuG groups was a very bare minimum. Things should not be gated to the point where they are faceroll and efficient the moment you get through the gatekeeping. Some games have done that, Marvel Heroes was one, where the gate you had to pass was an actual test that was leagues less forgiving than the mode it gated. 

Here in WF we are talking Star Chart content, which is already easier than the other different level 100+ things we have since it has no modifiers or other parameters that makes it special. It doesnt have a 1 life rule, it doesnt have Humpty Dumpty the nemesis trying to kill you and it doesnt have the possibility of energy reduction, increased enemy armor or some random resistance or hazard. 

10 hours ago, Felsagger said:

What the ph_____ are you talking about?....lmao....

 

Having a simulacrum with all the star chat mission editable is something viable as a reward. The game remains untouched while people can simulate any difficulty without any pressure to lose, yell at each other or deal with squads issues. People will get those challenges just for fun without rewards or elitism. 

Other than that leveling few enemies up on missions will suffice. Besides this game is not for serious challenges, this is a farming game. For good challenges try something else. 

No, really, no.

"...mission editable is something viable as a reward." Then at the same time you go and say "Besides this game is not for serious challenges, this is a farming game. For good challenges try something else".

Well hello there Mr. Contradiction. So you say we should add a mode purely so people can "challenge" themselves without rewards when you at the same time say that this game isnt for serious challenges but a farming game and that if we want challenge we should try something else. 

1. Level 150 is not challenging. So check on the game not being challenging.

2. Level 150 on the star chart means loot. So check on the game being about farming.

3. Bringing "challenging" levels to the sim only is apparently not for this game since it is not for serious challenge. Which sim would kinda be since it would just be there for the "difficulty" since it would have nothing to farm, which this game is really all about in your own words.

Maybe you should start reading what you post before posting it, unless you come up with this S#&$ just to troll.

And when did farming and challenge become seperate things that cannot combine? I hope the hell you'll never get into game design, cos if you do you'll have a real Flagship product.

[Felsagger]

12 hours ago, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

Its not happening dude, get over it already, you already got a thread locked because you got salty. Let it go.

True, Royal is something that doesn't fit in War Frame. For other games, fine. In here, the idea is not suited for it and such thing brings toxicity, hackers and glitcher cheaters. War Frame is not that type of game and it doesn't need to go with the flow. 

Oh I forgot, 

Ervin, please shut up, ty. 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Felsagger

[5p33dy_01]

47 minutes ago, kyori said:

Can don't talk @#&$ or not like everyone else? People want to do very high level with best gear. Who doesn't know without mod etc will be difficult?

I mentioning doing mission solo and here you tell me to do solo. WTF? Of course I can solo that's why I am talking about solo. WTF? lmao

tell me what is the difference with you going into a mission and doing almost no damage with "best gear" or you going into a mission and doing almost no damage with no mods???

the ONLY difference is one way, the game is forcing it on you and the other is choice...

if you can handle level 500+ with your current weapons, when will it end???.. you will be back saying you want hard mode level 2000, ultra hard mode level 5000 and so on....

your arrogant narrow mind does not see that the solution is NOT to increase enemy level.

below is the reason that this is just a stupid idea
 

5 hours ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

No...

 

Ultra super crazy hyperspazstic funky TREMENDOUS darkness enhanced banana lord turbo turbotastic king big daddy difficulty mode.

Enemies start at level 1 and gain 74802e64729 levels per second.