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Discussion and Feedback on Hard Mode shown on devstream


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15 minutes ago, Jim22 said:

Built forma, rare mods like condition overload or adaption Etc. They could also start adding old prime frames to this mode as well like ember prime relics or frost prime. 

I doubt we'll see rewards of that caliber from this.  The enemies only going up 50 levels at hard. For most missions that means they go from being a 1-hit, to still being a 1-hit. Maybe a 2-hit if their lucky.

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6 minutes ago, TehBoozinCrew said:

And after that?

And I'm at 3k hours and I'm not even close to done with just the primed mods, let alone the thousands of other mods, and more keep coming with 4 brand new primes dropped today.

The amount of endo you need is not a limiting factor to be reasonably considering as "what about the end point."

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Lots of eager discussions about rewards or increased rewards for hard mode and ultra hard mode being made, but I was just sitting here having a little thought experiment.

For a quick moment, I entertained the idea how rewarding it might feel to steer the game's direction eeeeever so slightly as a reward for playing ultra hard mode. For example, imagine getting a bunch of tokens like for arbitrations for completing missions or even certain tasks within ultra hard mode and in exchange, once per "decision rotation", allowing everyone who's got enough of said tokens to vote on a rerun of an event, or for a frame to be unvaulted next, or a suggestion for baro to bring next, or vote for a new weapon concept out of several available.

I know I know, glaring issues, people complaining about being too weak to vote, etc. I'm not particularly saying the idea's great and flawless. I was just sitting there wondering if it wouldn't be fun to get people (and maybe DE) to think about fun out-of-the-box concepts like this as a less tangible reward for imposing challenges on yourself, rather than increased resources or mod drops that some of us might not even have use for. Something we haven't seen before that involves us as a community, or just something for pure fun. Like voting on a new peculiar mod to be added to the same mode or whatever. Anything.

 

Can you think of something completely different than just increased rewards as well? Something potentially strange or completely novel? I'm just trying to start some fun brainstorming.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)l Saminator l said:

If hard and ultra hard mode works similarly to Arbitrations, in that a player can't be carried in unless they have access to it, then that alone will stomp out the problem of most players migrating from hydron/sanctuary Onslaught, to the hard and ultra hard missions, since they still need to put the work in to actually gain access to the nodes. 

This.

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3 hours ago, (PS4)Ragology said:

Aren't they just raising enemy levels? What could possibly go wrong?

Tenno after Ultra Hard Mode Survival...but still getting the original node rewards...

"WTF? I just spent 20 waves in a Survival with enemies starting at level 150 and all I got was this lousy t-shirt!!!!"

Nothing could possibly go wrong...nothing.

That is (rightfully) a good reason to DE to work on this a little bit longer...unless DE says on release "This hard mode stuff is not ready but we want all Tenno to beta test it and give us feedback in the forums so that Warframe partners can make videos we won't watch but get cliff notes from interns that tell us what the rewards should be rather than waiting a little longer and doing it close to right the first time..."

 

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Like someone already said, they just need to lock access to it so that you can't taxi to it.  I honestly wish they would do something about taxi's in the first place.  Like, no, I'm not going to taxi you to Mot.  If you can't get there on your own, chances are you'll get stomped out if anything there looks at you funny.  People getting taxi'd to places they can't get on their own is why there are so many people still playing at MR 15 who think it's A-OK to afk missions and be straight up squad-luggage.  It's the only way they've ever played.

The funny part about the idea that the higher levels will making leveling too easy or that it'll become the new meta is that XP scaling sucks hard in this game.  Even with a booster on, if I bring a weapon to passively level in a T5 Survival Fissure, it doesn't level much faster than it would at Hydron.  Helene levels you up almost as fast as Hydron does and it's also lower level.  Hydron works like it does because it's an optimum mix of enemy level that still really easy to kill but still gives slightly more XP, the fact that Grineer are worth the most XP, the map is tight and keeps the squad close enough to maintain the bonus XP buff 90% of the time, and it's a defense, so it's consistent, guaranteed XP.  The only reason ESO is faster is the sheer volume of enemies, not the level.  

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Tricky part will be rewards. If you’re at the point where you want to do hard mode for everything, you don’t need anything to make you more powerful—what would be the point?

If Hard Mode players are happy with cosmetics, though...

2 hours ago, RamonLeeYJ said:

By saying hard mode, I hope it's smarter enemies with different attack varieties, not just bullet sponges with super high HP

You will be disappointed. That’s not what “hard” means to most people who ask for it in Warframe. 

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7 hours ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

 

  • Higher-level Capture missions could have players Capture more than one VIP from across the map. You know how in Spy missions that if you lose all 3 data terminals, you lose the mission? Something like that.
  • Higher-level Exterminate missions will have a lot more mini boss-type enemies thrown around when a certain percentage of enemies is killed (like a Lynx or Hyena(s) in a Corpus mission)
  • Higher-level Defense missions could have you defend several objectives at the same time (imagine a game mode where there's a platoon of civilians that the Tenno are going to try and defend)
  • Higher-level Mobile Defense missions could act like Disruption where during time thresholds (3 minute defense, every 1 minute, for example), there's a Demolisher or Demolyst (i forget the name) that takes huge chunks out of the terminal's health

 

Precise, beautiful, interesting....yes...

 

 

Taking notes. 

Keep rolling these ideas. 

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1 hour ago, TehBoozinCrew said:

That's, uh, certainly one way to kill two birds with one stone. Not very efficient on the relics, but I do like the idea of a high consumption quick payout option.

Kinda misspoke I meant the yellow things you pick up. The shards or w/e they are called. So 3 relics 3 items, but in mission u need 15 and 20 of the thingers.

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I’m looking forward to doing the star chart over again. Having the New game + thing I have been asking for is great. It’s basically that idea - 50 levels and - 200 on ultra, but w/e. Good news.

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Possibly one of the worst ideas ever....

Power creep is already a problem in Warframe...now players will make builds for 150+ level enemies and run everything with those builds.

Next content release will be "easy" because enemies won't be at level 150+ and the boss won't be 150+...

But yes..."finally...this is the greatest thing ever..."

 

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16 minutes ago, GreyDeath789 said:

Possibly one of the worst ideas ever....

Power creep is already a problem in Warframe...now players will make builds for 150+ level enemies and run everything with those builds.

You should be HAPPY! Now the people with powerful builds have somewhere to release them, instead of in the general starchart.

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10 hours ago, (PS4)ChaosTheNerd said:

Hard Mode has the potential to be great if.....the rewards will be worth getting. They said they're thinking of adding different rewards for hard mode so all the hopes for rewards to be worth playing for. 👍

Dont really care if it was Meso Relics to be honest. I literally only want to not have to wait an hour and a half to have fun in the game. 

2 hours ago, GreyDeath789 said:

Possibly one of the worst ideas ever....

Power creep is already a problem in Warframe...now players will make builds for 150+ level enemies and run everything with those builds.

Next content release will be "easy" because enemies won't be at level 150+ and the boss won't be 150+...

But yes..."finally...this is the greatest thing ever..."

 

Dont queue up for it and you'll be fine lol.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Dont queue up for it and you'll be fine lol.

Queue up all the forum posts about the newest content being too easy? Yea...that is going to be a lot of threads to read to find nuggets of great insights.

2 hours ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

You should be HAPPY! Now the people with powerful builds have somewhere to release them, instead of in the general starchart.

Yes, everything put out by DE will be run by builds that are for 150+ enemies yet the new content won't be 150+ enemies leading to complaints about how easy everything is now...

This is going to work out so well...

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4 hours ago, (PS4)Ragology said:

Aren't they just raising enemy levels? What could possibly go wrong?

People using Inaros, Mesa, or anyone that negates challenge, follow by complaining how Hard Mode or Super Hard Mode is not challenging.

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53 minutes ago, GreyDeath789 said:

Yes, everything put out by DE will be run by builds that are for 150+ enemies yet the new content won't be 150+ enemies leading to complaints about how easy everything is now...

This is going to work out so well...

it was always that way even in the days of raids, it will continue to be that way even after hard come. simulacrum rules everyone's builds now. now they just have a place to really test them out rather than wait 1 hr for lvl 150 enemies to spawn.

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Honestly...I've got nothing.

I don't care either way about the starchart having a hard mode, inflating levels only treats a symptom of the problem and not the actual problem of weapons/frames that make even 150 look like level 1.

Warframe won't be able to suddenly have the challenge people are looking for just by jacking up the levels of enemies.

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10 hours ago, Atrak8 said:

Could you perhaps create an optional matchmaking where players basically choose 'hardmode' but the actual node isn't chosen until you have 4 players or perhaps the node is even chosen at random.  This might help with the spreading the player-base across the entire star chart twice. (Something akin to world of tanks style matchmaking?)

simply put.. no

here is why,
builds
some frames are support type and others are not, you would have to assume all frames can defend effectively or sustain themselves/squad, which not all can, depending on build (but you cant build for something you dont know).
then we move on to weapons, some weapons are better than others, depending on the mission (excluding bramma)

if i was to take your exact suggestion, i would literally be eliminating the star chart with a button that automatically puts my rhino into disruption, although it may not be a problem at first (depending on level) it may become a problem.

or a case where i absolutely hate defence/defection/interception, yet i am thrown into those.

you will have people constantly leaving because thats a mission they dont want to play.

10 hours ago, Atrak8 said:

Since the players are all choosing the same kind of level, you could perhaps even split it up to mission type, or enemy type?

mission type AND enemy type is the only way to do it, since above (builds) applies.

10 hours ago, Atrak8 said:

This would help with the lower population at certain times/zones.

im not sure what you mean by this, if you are talking about out of game times/zones, you are basically asking for the removal of the star chart and replacing it with an automatic matchmaker button.

you can not have both star chart and automatic matchmaking, if one is random and the other is not, people wont choose the random one, because they know how builds affect what mission you are in. it has to be one or the other.

anyway... your "hard mode" is pretty much already implemented, its called "Arbitration".
everyone joins the same mission and it clearly indicates the type of enemies and type of mission.
asking for general missions to be the same is already done, each mission on the star chart (its just not a 1-click wonder).

so it seems like you're purely asking for the removal of the star chart system... which leads me back to.... no

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5 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Remember Kuva Lich and Railjack, Steve. Don’t pull it like that ever again. You have the PTC, use it wisely. First impressions are always important.

I think the OP meant Rewards. They should do a PTC regarding that so the mode is worth our time.

Even with no rewards, just the additional affinity is totally worth it. I am desperate for level 100+ mobs.

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i wonder what will happen to Sorties? will they also get a "hard mode"? If they do, it should only be to reroll awards, not get additional rewards

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