Jump to content
Dante Unbound: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

Feedback/Discussion on the deluxe skins shown on devstream


GPrime96
 Share

Recommended Posts

KNwgRBh.jpg

This is probably an Ingame Model with a Photoshop Filter. That or its a Rendered Model instead of Ingame.

But probably with the right color

The biggest differences i am noticing
Head is Larger in the image compared to Dev Stream
Image the Chest and Waist seems to be a lot more proportional than the Model in Dev Stream
Also the image has a lot better colors than the Yellow Stucatto look going. 

This image looks amazing, what we got looks like was like a Cheap Knockoff. 

This was the Khora Deluxe Concept

y3j0jnvgm1w21.jpg

The main difference seems to be the Garter Belt Location her Abdomen here goes straight down like other models.
While the 3D Model shown it essentially "Pours out of the body" 
The Art here has a neck matching proportions. While the 3D model looks like an elongated Giraffes neck.

4vdVxgY.jpg

 

Edited by xxswatelitexx
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Compared with the original concept art our good Inuzuka made, there are so many problems here.

1. The two tails are too flimsy, short and weak.

2-1. Her lower belly is too wide and protruded. She looks like a would-be mother.

2-2. Now, the waistband being too short is causing that.

2-3. And the overall length and width of her waist just puts it all off balance.

2-4. The red component on her leg is supposed to climb up to her entire pelvis, not just  up until the thighs.

3. Legs too thicc, and the flowers on her legs are waaayy too up high. Her shoes and additional decor on her feet are gone.

4. The flowers on her breasts are too large. See, This takes up all the room for additional details.

4-1. This also feeds back into the issue with the waist. It shrinks the room for details and decorations down, forcing the rest of the design to be weak and small. 

4-2. And it took away the additional flowers that climbed up her shoulder.

5. The shoulders are too low and weak. This makes the flower look extremely off-balanced and makes her neck too long.

5-1. The thorns that are supposed to be there just aren't there to be seen.

5-2. Additional details on her left shoulder is also gone.

6. The helmet looks as if it was sculpted from the basic alt-helmet of Khora. 

6-1. The thorns are almost unnoticeable.

6-2. The flower, again, is just too big. It looks heavy. Especially so when it is on that long flimsy neck. 

6-3. And what are those additional metalics doing there? That doesn't look fun to colour. It'll ruin the overall balance!

 

 

In all honesty, I wouldn't have complained too much if I didn't know the original concept art. I wish the team took more time to put out a deluxe skin and be bold with it. This one really isn't doing the original concept art any justice. It overall tone and weak design choices reminds me of Ember's chicken DEluxe too much. 

  • Like 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Being a Khora main who really loves this frame, I was super hyped by the superb concept art of Liger Inuzuka. I was sure to buy this skin when it came out. But now that we've seen the result ... I'm seriously reconsidering. I try to put into perspective, telling myself that the stream was of poor quality, that the lights of Fortuna do not look good on the model, etc ... But in the end, this skin is really not up to its concept.

Too many things are wrong, and this has been very well summarized in this topic. I don't think that small adjustments in proportions and textures will be enough to correct them. I think there is a serious need to rework the model. Not to mention the animations that I find genuinely ridiculous (I would clearly not use it. Need to test beforehand but with this geisha themed skin, i think the Excalibur Zato animation with the smoking pipe could go well with her).

I agree with what has been said: the skin does not honor Liger Inuzuka's work at all. I would be really disappointed if DE decided to release the skin in this state.

Edited by Yulfan
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2020-05-08 at 4:04 PM, (PS4)PoKerZ2017 said:

That beer belly and long neck.... 😵

The underlying  theme of this thread for most is something that a lot of people are simply afraid to say without catching heat for it:

DE, no matter how artistic or ornate you make a Deluxe Skin on a female frame, if you mess with the “classic/stereotypical” beauty of the female form, you will lose a large segment of buyers that see it as a basic requirement before all else.

And yes, I get what the artists were doing with the “skeletal” (Garuda) and “periodic fashion” (Khora) influences...and count me among those who thinks it currently detracts in the end-result models.  Admittedly, some of it may be that subtleties were lost in translation from concept art.

Judge me however you will.  My wife is built like Saryn.  Phyte Me.

Edited by (PS4)Silverback73
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

DE, no matter how artistic or ornate you make a Deluxe Skin on a female frame, if you mess with the “classic/stereotypical” beauty of the female form, you will lose a large segment of buyers that see it as a basic requirement before all else.

Always a threat when designing characters. Having gone through the education process of concepting characters, learning that “Men, they’re shaped like this, and women are shaped like this”, and knowing that we’re told that mainly because that’s what does the all-important selling, I was left with a bitter taste in my mouth (and I’m not the only one, since Art and Business are horrid bedfellows)

Regardless of personal preference, I’m glad to see an exploration of alternative shapes (of the female form, in this case).

It’s definitely a bottom line threat when there’s no catering to the masses. It’d be nice if more people appreciated the alternative work, of course. But throughout history, the true artists have pushed against the status quo, and tend to suffer for it as the status quo pushes back.

People must be challenged at times. Lest everyone goes around thinking they’re always right. Personally, I’d rather see these skins be controversial than not

edit: Hildryn looks really cool too 

Edited by (NSW)Greybones
Link to comment
Share on other sites

vor 15 Minuten schrieb (NSW)Greybones:

Regardless of personal preference, I’m glad to see an exploration of alternative shapes (of the female form, in this case).

Except that the Garuda skin specifically is not an exploration but the complete eradication of the female form. I would even go so far to say that if we didn't know that it was a skin for Garuda, if we took her signature melee weapons - her claws - away, you wouldn't even know or couldn't say for sure that it was Garuda or a female frame to begin with. Men and women are both built in very specific ways. Take it all away, what do you have? Yes, a skeleton. And that's exactly what this skin did to Garuda, in my opinion.

Yes, skinny, flat chested women exist. If you want to see (in my opinion) a good example of this body shape represented/explored in Warframe look no further than the Trinity Deluxe skin. That's how you do it (it also fit Trinity very well because it stayed true to her default body shape to begin with, just saying).

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, AndrejDelaney said:

Except that the Garuda skin specifically is not an exploration but the complete eradication of the female form. I would even go so far to say that if we didn't know that it was a skin for Garuda, if we took her signature melee weapons - her claws - away, you wouldn't even know or couldn't say for sure that it was Garuda or a female frame to begin with.

Interesting observation 🤔 

So you’re saying that, once the identifiably female form of Garuda is removed, they’re no longer Garuda?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gerade eben schrieb (NSW)Greybones:

Interesting observation 🤔 

So you’re saying that, once the identifiably female form of Garuda is removed, they’re no longer Garuda?

What I am saying is the skin might fit any other frame or even be another frame at the end of the day, male or female, because it's basically a skeleton you are looking at, it lacks typical female features, it lacks typical male features, it's ambiguous, unclear. What I am saying is that the skin makes it hard to see a female frame in it - or Garuda specifically once you take away the claws. It strips Garuda of her femininity, her typical physique, her chest is gone, her butt, her thighs, parts of herself you could identify her by.

If all of that makes sense? I hope it does. 🙃 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, AndrejDelaney said:

What I am saying is the skin might fit any other frame or even be another frame at the end of the day, male or female, because it's basically a skeleton you are looking at, it lacks typical female features, it lacks typical male features, it's ambiguous, unclear. What I am saying is that the skin makes it hard to see a female frame in it - or Garuda specifically once you take away the claws. It strips Garuda of her femininity, her typical physique, her chest is gone, her butt, her thighs, parts of herself you could identify her by.

Which is why i said from a previous Post i replied, if the Claws was removed, she would be a completely different Frame. Her base structure is built like what you would expect from a bloody maiden while the Deluxe got the structure of a unfinished Warframe.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, AndrejDelaney said:

If all of that makes sense? I hope it does. 🙃 

You might be surprised how well I understand what you’re saying 🙃.

Didn’t know you were so vocal in this thread until, out of curiosity, I looked at your profile. Gonna have a look through what you’ve said elsewhere. I like learning about people, it’s quite an adventure 👍 and I should have done so earlier to get a better feel for where you’re coming from

edit: Oh yeah, I remember reading a few of these posts

Edited by (NSW)Greybones
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

vor 1 Minute schrieb (NSW)Greybones:

You might be surprised how well I understand what you’re saying 🙃.

Didn’t know you were so vocal in this thread until, out of curiosity, I looked at your profile. Gonna have a look through what you’ve said elsewhere. I like learning about people, it’s quite an adventure 👍 and I should have done so earlier to get a better feel for where you’re coming from

Hey, thanks! You'll find out that I am quite passionate about Garuda since - basically - she was the main reason why I started to play Warframe to begin with. 😅 And I just love her theme, using your own blood and the blood of your enemies to empower yourself, wandering on the edge between life and death (the lower hp you have the stronger you are), also the idea of something beautiful being able to become so monstreous and so deadly all of a sudden  ... Vampires and the psychology behind them - their inner conflict of being a human or a monster - were always my kinda thing. Garuda just ... spoke to me and ended up being the first thing I purchased to support DE.

Oh, by the way, I am not a serial killer, I promise. I couldn't hurt a fly. 😆 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Problems: 

Low polygonal models imposes downgrade to the original artists base models of Arsen Asyrankulov and Liger Inuzuka concept drawing.

The reduction of polygons and level of details threw away the artistry of these models. It went under oversimplification hurting the concept or even downgrading it. 

The lack of procedural tessellation causes this. The budget of polygons on each frame is quite low. This is a low level of detail that causes some deformations and disproportions.  

There are serious distortions with the original source work too. 

Compare this: 

arsen-asyrankulov-ash-rendersr.jpg?15626

With this: 

WS0QkGm6lThS104F8FiWCAqDeQEoUlYX5dNTDTtt

The artistic reinterpretation and oversimplification threw away Arsen Asyrankulov work to the window. The same case happened with Garuda. 

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/rR2Lda

Digital Extremes downgraded to death their work reducing the number of polygons and the level of detail due to the low budget cap they have. Sadly this cuts off great design proposals and throws away the work of good artist. Many of you come here blabbering about these artists work without knowing what is going on. Yes there are great critiques here too like the faulty translation of Inuzuka's work. 

DE current graphic engine sucks ass. It needs a true update for the next generation and the allowance of greater details. PCs are multi core, they can handle a bit of more polygons. Consoles are about to go throughout a transition, allowing more capability for these designs. The community of Warframe should demand more graphical upgrades, detailing and a better graphic engine. The one we have now feels old making the War Frames looks like dull caricatures. 

DE I recommend you to use this:

 

Now this makes more justice to Arsen. 

EXmziqtXkAATXS4?format=jpg&name=4096x409

Edited by Felsagger
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, AndrejDelaney said:

Oh, by the way, I am not a serial killer, I promise. I couldn't hurt a fly. 😆 

I know you’re not 🙂 

Thanks for this additional bit about yourself, it’s always fun to see other people’s perspectives and what drove motivations 👍 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Always a threat when designing characters. Having gone through the education process of concepting characters, learning that “Men, they’re shaped like this, and women are shaped like this”, and knowing that we’re told that mainly because that’s what does the all-important selling, I was left with a bitter taste in my mouth (and I’m not the only one, since Art and Business are horrid bedfellows)

Regardless of personal preference, I’m glad to see an exploration of alternative shapes (of the female form, in this case).

It’s definitely a bottom line threat when there’s no catering to the masses. It’d be nice if more people appreciated the alternative work, of course. But throughout history, the true artists have pushed against the status quo, and tend to suffer for it as the status quo pushes back.

People must be challenged at times. Lest everyone goes around thinking they’re always right. Personally, I’d rather see these skins be controversial than not

edit: Hildryn looks really cool too 

Hildryn is a different kind of body type. 
Emaciated and white/trailer trash are not body types outside of memes and medical portfolios. They should NEVER be treated as human form unless they are the explicit intent; Doing them 'accidentally' comes off as really bad at best and fetish at worst. 
Khora, for example, is most definitely a fetish piece; She is either pregnant or wearing a diaper, has a giant rear and massive upper thighs, a small upper body, a large head, and small feet. 

While im interested to see how (or if...) DE distances themselves from an ESO wood elf armor, an emaciated vampire, and a walking fetish please dont excuse their works in progress as 'explorations of body types outside the normal'. A videogame is not a political message about body image issues.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, (PS4)ARC_Paroe said:

Hildryn is a different kind of body type. 
Emaciated and white/trailer trash are not body types outside of memes and medical portfolios. They should NEVER be treated as human form unless they are the explicit intent; Doing them 'accidentally' comes off as really bad at best and fetish at worst. 
Khora, for example, is most definitely a fetish piece; She is either pregnant or wearing a diaper, has a giant rear and massive upper thighs, a small upper body, a large head, and small feet. 

While im interested to see how (or if...) DE distances themselves from an ESO wood elf armor, an emaciated vampire, and a walking fetish please dont excuse their works in progress as 'explorations of body types outside the normal'. A videogame is not a political message about body image issues.

Interesting 🤔 

What do you reckon was going through the minds of the people who ultimately brought these skins into existence as they were working on them?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

War Frame has no gender. They could be any anthropomorphic figure. I don't see Nezha, Gara or any other frame with gender. The design for Gara was good and so the one for Ash. The design for Khora was great but DE screwed it up really good, lol. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...