Feedback/Discussion on the deluxe skins shown on devstream

[(XBOX)SirMilkfiend]

Garuda deluxe is beautiful.

Edited May 11, 2020 by (XB1)SirMilkfiend

[(PSN)Silverback73]

12 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Always a threat when designing characters. Having gone through the education process of concepting characters, learning that “Men, they’re shaped like this, and women are shaped like this”, and knowing that we’re told that mainly because that’s what does the all-important selling, I was left with a bitter taste in my mouth (and I’m not the only one, since Art and Business are horrid bedfellows)

Regardless of personal preference, I’m glad to see an exploration of alternative shapes (of the female form, in this case).

It’s definitely a bottom line threat when there’s no catering to the masses. It’d be nice if more people appreciated the alternative work, of course. But throughout history, the true artists have pushed against the status quo, and tend to suffer for it as the status quo pushes back.

People must be challenged. Lest everyone goes around thinking they’re always right. Personally, I’d rather see these skins be controversial than not

In the “fine art” sense, yes.  But the realm of commercial art and illustration is very much tied to the bottom line.

And so I am clear as well, I am in the camp that illustrators and commercial artists can be every bit the TRUE artists as someone using art to push a different narrative.

[(NSW)Greybones]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

In the “fine art” sense, yes.  But the realm of commercial art and illustration is very much tied to the bottom line.

And so I am clear as well, I am in the camp that illustrators and commercial artists can be every bit the TRUE artists as someone using art to push a different narrative.

Your second part sounds like we’re in the same camp in this regard, though your first part’s “In the fine art sense” throws me for a loop due to how loaded the term “fine art” is.

Out of curiosity, and not seeking to digress too much more than I already have, I’m wondering why you emphasised the “True” part of your post

[(PSN)ARC_Paroe]

6 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Interesting 🤔 

What do you reckon was going through the minds of the people who ultimately brought these skins into existence as they were working on them?

Theyre working with a concept, but there clearly isnt any communication between the various teams about bringing the concept to life.  
What you get at that point are caricatures instead of good, well made skins to pay money for.  

That being said, of liger inuzukas skins, i like nidus phryke the best. Khora didnt look good in concept to me and battlebulge nezha has very similar design issues (what are those thighs?!). 

[Vlada91]

6 hours ago, hungryghost84 said:

Garuda = read too many tabloids and watched too many supermodel runway shows and is now suffering from anorexia

Ash = went on a paleo diet and is now doing 40k marathons for that 'lean look'

khora = found the love of her life and got preggers

Haha exactly 😂 from this 3 skins only ash hood helmet its good  because it's the hood. Probably only reason why im going to get him... 😏

Edited May 11, 2020 by Vlada91

[(NSW)Greybones]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)ARC_Paroe said:

Theyre working with a concept, but there clearly isnt any communication between the various teams about bringing the concept to life.  
What you get at that point are caricatures instead of good, well made skins to pay money for.  

You sound quite confident in your assessment. Are you familiar with the pipeline between concept and finalised game model? It’d be cool to get some insight from someone else who’s in-the-know about what the limits and challenges are of turning a 2D concept into a 3D game model while matching the concept piece to an established armature. I love learning about this stuff since I’ll be making it part of my career in due time 😋

[Vlada91]

31 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

You sound quite confident in your assessment. Are you familiar with the pipeline between concept and finalised game model? It’d be cool to get some insight from someone else who’s in-the-know about what the limits and challenges are of turning a 2D concept into a 3D game model while matching the concept piece to an established armature. I love learning about this stuff since I’ll be making it part of my career in due time 😋

I think he is right in some way, and in some you are also. But for example boob flowers are bigger from the conept art. On art shape is smaller and better because it fits perfectly thaz way... And she looks pregnant so if they cam make complicated skin like new delixe for Ash or Nezha deluxe and even Nidus deluxe who is weary complicated he looks exactly like from the concept art. But here with this 3 skins is totally different, for example ash deluxe first 3d image he who's not skinny and didn't have big head from his body. But now he  has just that... And i can go on and on but i think you see my point. Even some texture dont look right and are just 2 simple for that specific design,compared from art.....

[(PSN)ARC_Paroe]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

You sound quite confident in your assessment. Are you familiar with the pipeline between concept and finalised game model? It’d be cool to get some insight from someone else who’s in-the-know about what the limits and challenges are of turning a 2D concept into a 3D game model while matching the concept piece to an established armature. I love learning about this stuff since I’ll be making it part of my career in due time 😋

Im not, but its pretty clear that theres a disconnect between teams and we already know that DE is plagued with corporate issues ("i know better than the playerbase", partners who constantly break the rules and arent punished, cliques of power to name a few). 

DE's team have supposedly been working together for quite some time, and there are several genuinely VERY cool homegrown skins in the game at this point - that the Garuda, Ash, and Khora deluxe skins look as bad as they do this near completion is extremely suspicious pudding that there are problems within the development pipeline. 
That being said, theres also every chance that they take community criticisms to heart and fix the many problems which have been pointed out in a good way. Depends on if the information reaches them in the first place and if they dont take those criticisms badly. 

Some ideas, like the giant thighs on battlebulge nezha and babybump khora, are better left on the concept table though. If it looks weird or silly on paper, it will look weirder and sillier in 3D.
Theres also the chance the weirdness we see in the new deluxe skins comes from DE working on it from home, with less tools and resources, and when the coronacation is over they will improve dramatically.

Edited May 11, 2020 by (PS4)ARC_Paroe

[Aseraan]

My opinion is we should take some of Khora Delux thiiiiiiiiiiicnes and give some of it to Anorex Delux I do not want to sexualize frames i simply like some of their assets(Jokes aside Garuda Delux looks like Nekros Delux done right Or even another Inaros Delux CMOn thats not a good thing EITHER OF THEM)

[Serafinia]

The Ash skin seems okay but the rest is not my cup of tea. The Garuda skin looks too anorex while the knora deluxe looks just plain bad. The Ivara deluxe could have been her skin but DE decides what they want to add. Their duty and their money if it sells well if not they will listen to the feedbacks more.

[Myscho]

Khora isnt that bad when you put her under different pose and lighting, that thing which was showed in Devstream looks weird like model was broken

This isnt thad bad at all

[Cubewano]

I don't care especially for the Ash deluxe (a little too bland a design for me, feels like an npc just fell out of elder scrolls into warframe) but I'm excited for Garuda and Khora's works, a gothic marionette doll and geisha(?) literally built with florals and cacti are very neat concepts to see explored. I know some people have concerns about awkward proportions with the later skin (though i have to ask all the people calling her pregnant to actually look up what a pregnant woman's stomach looks like) but honestly looking at anything beyond the primary unfaltering example in circulation with a bad angle I'm not too concerned, besides if y'all want to hound awkward body proportions go after her base skin with the toothpick waist. 

[Felsagger]

2 hours ago, Myscho said:

Khora isnt that bad when you put her under different pose and lighting, that thing which was showed in Devstream looks weird like model was broken

This isnt thad bad at all

Sometimes DE loves to troll us a bit with unfinished models. 

The model they shown us first sucked ass hard. This model has a bit more of geometrical details but there are a lot of details missed like more flowers petals in the chest and the neck. 

Arsen Asyrankulov work is perfect for the game. People speaking how skinny they are are simply reacting without knowing the artistic values of a far more better art.

DE traditional artistry is very old looking like a caricature of the 80's. The game needs a serious graphical update for the next generation. 

Right now the game looks like a good looking portable boring phone game. A serious graphical enhancement is needed, the game is already seven years old. 

[vegetosayajin]

On 2020-05-08 at 10:29 PM, Kaotyke said:

Not sticc enough, huh?

[kaneda]

Hi ho Tennos,
normally its really rare for me to post on forums but i need to address the problems that we are having around modeling and aspect ratio within the game.

Yes i main ash, and im not here to adress thicness, curvyness, beubs or something around those lines, but a problem in common with most of the models ingame since the first workshops models released (And now with Ash Deluxe new skin).

the concept shown before had an perfect ratio between body and head from the skin
 

Spoiler

Now this? The head/hood is all over Ash's shoulder!

Spoiler

I understand that you guys coudnt be 100% truthfull to the models/artworks but please be accurate with body to head ratios, i really hope that this could be fixed (at least for this model) untill the release date =/

This isnt the first time that i noticed this, and that was the reason that i never bough workshop headgears at first.
I have others minors exemples down within other frame, all of those headgears was shown on workshops by the designers with a normal head/body ratio but when was released ingame that was what we got:
 

Spoiler

 

 

I love DE's work and still defend warframe till this day, but let's leave the Noogles inside the ships Tennos! 😉 💊

[Felsagger]

48 minutes ago, kaneda said:

Hi ho Tennos, 

I love DE's work and still defend warframe till this day, but let's leave the Noogles inside the ships Tennos! 😉 💊

Agree 100%. 

Some of the War Frames looks like caricatures. Proportions are just wrong. 

 

And, I'm not a Tenno. I have a books, coffee, some chess boards and me bed. Tennos are those weird twisted kids spouting nonsense, lol. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Felsagger

[Grekkatarq]

4 hours ago, Myscho said:

Khora isnt that bad when you put her under different pose and lighting, that thing which was showed in Devstream looks weird like model was broken

This isnt thad bad at all

In this pose this skin looks much better. 

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

5 hours ago, kaneda said:

Now this? The head/hood is all over Ash's shoulder

Thats a syndana.. the new tennocon i believe.

And need i remind that wisp has a head part longer than she is tall?

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

Ehh.

The garuda skin is just meh to me her other skins are better.

Ashes new deluxe skin looks good. But I don't play ash and i prefer female frames most of the time.

And khoras deluxe just looks wierd. Her cat looks sick though.

I will likey skip theses deluxes. Lets hope gara deluxe kicks butt.

Edited May 11, 2020 by (PS4)Kakurine2

[RamPuppy]

not a fan of either skin - (and not a fan of how the upcoming frame (Protea) looks or works in general (I recognize that last part probably puts me in the minority.)  But honestly, when it comes to Khora - it looks like they slapped on the body type of a Hyekka Master and then watched a video on how to make those horrible 1980s style sweat shirts where old ladies glued silk flowers to the shirt w/ glittery glue.  I usually really like the deluxe skins - but I'll be avoiding these.  There are better options out there. 

[kaneda]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Thats a syndana.. the new tennocon i believe.

And need i remind that wisp has a head part longer than she is tall?

I wasnt talking about the Syandana but the hood itself, look at the size of the head on the early model, the head is so small that the hood not even touch the shoulder, wide-wise.

[Lenti]

if khora deluxe was released without the overhype and initial concept, no one would've talk about it, its just another skin

but that concept art created a false unrealistic image of what to expect and it backfired

i hope DE and the concept guys take this into consideration and release a more realistic art for their work, body proportions matter in warframe

[Mos-Eisley]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder they say, so I am sure there will be people who find these new skins a better option than what is currently available. I am not one of those people. 

I think the Khora and Garuda default skins are far better. Far Far FAR better in Khora's case. The Ash Koga skin is quite a bit better than this new one, and more fitting. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

14 hours ago, Vlada91 said:

I think he is right in some way, and in some you are also. But for example boob flowers are bigger from the conept art. On art shape is smaller and better because it fits perfectly thaz way... And she looks pregnant so if they cam make complicated skin like new delixe for Ash or Nezha deluxe and even Nidus deluxe who is weary complicated he looks exactly like from the concept art. But here with this 3 skins is totally different, for example ash deluxe first 3d image he who's not skinny and didn't have big head from his body. But now he  has just that... And i can go on and on but i think you see my point. Even some texture dont look right and are just 2 simple for that specific design,compared from art.....

Hmm 🤔 If I’m understanding this correctly, you’ve made observations regarding the different sizes between concept and model of Khora’s flowers and how she looks pregnant to you.

I stumbled a little on this next part; You’ve also stated that... er, something about complicated skins for Ash deluxe, Nezha deluxe, and Nidus deluxe? Is there some sort of implied statement that Khora isn’t complicated enough...? Apparently DE can work exactly from concept art in Nidus deluxe’s case.

Then you compare Ash’s rigged in-game model to the complex static model (most likely made in Z-brush) and say that the in-game textures don’t match with the Z-brush model, and that the head is too big on the in-game model (It does look a little bigger than standard proportions, though in my case where I know something about the process, I’m wondering what the reason was for doing that)

Looking through these laid-out pieces of the puzzle that is your post, I believe I understand the point being made, but I think it’s best if you spell it out for me. I would like to ensure that there’s a minimum of misunderstanding. My interpretation of what you’ve said might not be to your liking, and would rather know in no uncertain terms what you meant.

Edited May 12, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones

[Hawk1911]

12 hours ago, Myscho said:

Khora isnt that bad when you put her under different pose and lighting, that thing which was showed in Devstream looks weird like model was broken

This isnt thad bad at all

The head - neck to body size ratio is still way out of proportion even in that picture.