What kind of rewards qualify as "end-game"?

[MorteNexus13]

For me, Kuva, Riven Mods/Slivers and Arcanes qualify as such and it would be great if they were rewards from the Ultra Hardmode. And then they are radiant relics, some rare mods and endo (because not everyone, including me, has maximized all rank 10 rare and legendary mods, and DE will surely release more primed mods).

Edited May 10, 2020 by MorteNexus13

[Xylena_Lazarow]

Definitions of "endgame" seem to vary wildly, from "a Kuva Flood" to "12 hour Mot runs."

I'd simply like a higher level version of the content that already exists, with the same rewards that already exist, but a more efficient grind.

Also, unlimited Kuva Floods, zero reason for these to still be restricted to 1 per hour.

[Oreades]

Riven slivers might almost be worth if it wasn't for that stupid 1 exchange per week restriction. 

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

Nothing will ever be good enough. 

[Alkarnus]

I want nature themed orbiter decorations. Actual large trees, bushes, flowers would be nice. Heck, just allow the dojo ones to be used.

[LSG501]

obvious things for me personally:

• umbra forma
• rivens or riven slivers
• large amounts of kuva
• really high amount of focus gain, not only in the mission, but also in a convertible format like the shards are

Issue is that apart from umbra (and even to a point that one) the 'end gamers' will have likely got all of that already and in the case of rivens, be at the 90 cap...

In most cases resources are pretty pointless for end gamers so while improved drop in the missions should be a thing it shouldn't be the reason to go there.

I suppose some might want cosmetics and they've already said about trophies so I suspect this is the direction rewards will be going... so I expect the lazy rewards of captura scenes(if they're doing things right they'll have a script to convert map locations into this) and probably skins for weapons (again can be automated with scripts...), maybe with a stupidly low drop chance on something that is actually 'useful' like the above.

Edited May 10, 2020 by LSG501

[Jim22]

anything that isn't ayatan statues and exilis adapters.

[(PSN)thowed]

Can't have the stuff that would actually be worth it like other games because of the "vocal" community.  Exclusive cosmetics, weapons, mods and things of that nature like almost EVERY other online multiplayer games have.

[JackHargreav]

23 minutes ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

Nothing will ever be good enough. 

Basically. No matter what, someone will say the rewards are bad. Or some other shat.

This is esentially the Baro problem. If he brings new mods "power creep" if he doesn't It's "primed dissapiontment".

[SpicyDinosaur]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

I'd say give everyone screaming for endgame just Anasa sculptures.

Why? According to the forums people "don't play for rewards" 

This response is just asinine. There's this issue that people feel pressed to act like rewards aren't important but that's BS. It's more like all the other rewards that would have been for hard gameplay were made so accessible to anyone regardless of skill that any special value they had is null.

[Jarriaga]

We first need to define what an "endgame" is before we talk about its rewards. Many different people here have vastly different definitions of what an "endgame" is.

In most games other than Warframe, there is a standardized definition of what an "Endgame" is, which refers to the activities that you should be focused on while in the later stages of the game after most of the base/main content has been experienced and the majority of the game's tools are at your disposal. Even the endgame in a chess game resolves around the same concept: The final stage of a chess game when few pieces are left on the board.

This in turn leads to developers making content designed around what they expect for the players to have experienced and the tools available to them by that point.

This definition is true for WoW, Diablo, NiOh, Devil May Cry, Monster Hunter, FFXIV, Borderlands, Darksiders, and Destiny. Irrespective of the individual implementations, they all follow that description. That's why you don't hear players of those games complaining about a lack of an endgame mode. They also don't argue about what the endgame mode is for those games, because they are mostly on the same page. Discussions about the quality of said endgame modes is a different matter, but they don't center around it existing or not.  

Now, moving on to rewards: Ideally (But unlikely considering DE's business model), endgame rewards could be exclusive non-tradable corrupted/amalgam/primed/umbra mods in line with other loot games locking higher-tier gear behind higher difficulty modes. But again, this goes against DE's business model of "get what you want day 1 if you have the plat", so this is unlikely.

[Loza03]

Cosmetics.

Seriously, it worked for Destiny. It's something the Destiny community has been so vocal about wanting back that Bungie has finally listened in spite of it being one of their major revenue streams. Yeah, people will get angry that they can only have the shiny if they're good but A: the recent armour changes and shield gating should prevent things from being too spongey and oneshot-y and B: the community gets angry over basic game design, at some point DE have to take a stand.

[anarchy753]

Not cosmetics. Cosmetics are one-and-done and after that they just pollute the loot table. Cosmetics on endgame content should be like arbitrations, where there's a store to buy them but you don't have a chance to accidentally get multiple later on.

For me;

• Relics, preferably radiant. They will always be relevant because there's always new content released on them. One of the most annoying thing is drop tables for stuff like Axi relics still have bronze tier mods like Vitality diluting them.
• Formas in various forms. Endgame in Warframe is basically just collect and improve. Forma/Umbra/Aura/Exilus/Stance would keep me going for a long time because you always need lots of them and can always use them even if you don't need them.
• Kuva/Riven Slivers. I don't care about them, but they are undeniably part of endgame rewards.
• Endo. Even lategame you can still use endo. I'm 3k hours in, have every frame maxed out with multiple formas on basically every prime, and I'm still only like halfway through maxing out primed mods. There's always more to spend endo on.

Arcanes are iffy. IMO they should always be in a store, otherwise you get the issue that once you get 21 of one, they're just purely useless in the drop table.

Edited May 10, 2020 by anarchy753

[Urlan]

3 minutes ago, anarchy753 said:

Not cosmetics. Cosmetics are one-and-done and after that they just pollute the loot table. Cosmetics on endgame content should be like arbitrations, where there's a store to buy them but you don't have a chance to accidentally get multiple later on.

For me;

• Relics, preferably radiant. They will always be relevant because there's always new content released on them. One of the most annoying thing is drop tables for stuff like Axi relics still have bronze tier mods like Vitality diluting them.
• Formas in various forms. Endgame in Warframe is basically just collect and improve. Forma/Umbra/Aura/Exilus/Stance would keep me going for a long time because you always need lots of them and can always use them even if you don't need them.
• Kuva/Riven Slivers. I don't care about them, but they are undeniably part of endgame rewards.
• Endo. Even lategame you can still use endo. I'm 3k hours in, have every frame maxed out with multiple formas on basically every prime, and I'm still only like halfway through maxing out primed mods. There's always more to spend endo on.

Arcanes are iffy. IMO they should always be in a store, otherwise you get the issue that once you get 21 of one, they're just purely useless in the drop table.

Well said! All good practical options.

For me, Arcanes, primed mods of progression, or ways of increasing the base performance of weapons and warframes would be the best long-term end-game rewards. Sadly, the existing arcanes were mostly nerfed, but that could be fixed, or better options introduced. Stuff like moving augments to the ability screen, or combining spare found parts into your warframe (primes to primes, and normals to normals) for small boosts akin to focus would also be one path. I agree that cosmetics don't really represent a path of reward for an endgame, but rather for the leader-board / trophy crowd. I like them too, and its nice to get them, but they aren't really a long-term form of incentive for players to keep at it, loot all the loot, and kill all the killing.

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

God no.. I have like hundreds of armors, syandanas, weird thingies you put on melee, skins etc... To the point I can't even remember them and when I get reminded I'm always like "huh? I had this all the time?"

I doubt destiny has thousands of cosmetics (meaningful ones)

Correct me if I'm wrong 

Now I'm not 100% sure, but they do have a TON of cosmetics.

Granted, to my knowledge, a lot of them get a similar reaction, thanks to one microtransaction shop. But some do get extra attention because you have to earn them.

 

It's simple really - tie a cosmetic item to an in-game accomplishment, and the cosmetic inherits the emotions of that accomplishment.

[anarchy753]

Just now, Urlan said:

Well said! All good practical options.

For me, Arcanes, primed mods of progression, or ways of increasing the base performance of weapons and warframes would be the best long-term end-game rewards. Sadly, the existing arcanes were mostly nerfed, but that could be fixed, or better options introduced. Stuff like moving augments to the ability screen, or combining spare found parts into your warframe (primes to primes, and normals to normals) for small boosts akin to focus would also be one path. I agree that cosmetics don't really represent a path of reward for an endgame, but rather for the leader-board / trophy crowd. I like them too, and its nice to get them, but they aren't really a long-term form of incentive for players to keep at it, loot all the loot, and kill all the killing.

I'm not really fond of the idea of permanent stat increases that people seem to suggest a lot. I just don't see it being healthy for balance at all. Even a small bonus builds over time.

Personally I hope focus Vwhatever.0 gives us some new nodes to play with, and I doubt it would happen, but I wish we could build our own personal tree from all out unlocked nodes, still limited to the way trees work such as 4 passives, 2 void mode, 2 void dash, 2 void blast nodes, along with whatever else I'm forgetting.

[SneakyErvin]

It depends on the game, so in WF's case it depends on where they wanna take a potential endgame.

As it is now, side grades in the form of weapons or mods, rare resources like kuva, umbra forma, riven mods and new arcanes etc. since the game doesnt really increase the "difficulty" to a point where we need straight upgrades. If they decide to increase the "difficulty" to points where we'd need more power they can introduce more powerful mods or possibly options to further improve our weapons or frames through more mod slots etc.

There is also the option for them to release RNG weapons like a normal looter shooter. Say they add a game mode with 8 weapons tied to it, all those weapons come with their own weapon slot and pre-installed catalyst and max rank. What we need to do for those weapons is to grind them instead of building and leveling them. Obviously we'd still need to forma them but they would never grant mastery. You would only ever be able to own 1 of each type of these weapons, they'd all come with some bonus (that is always max rolled), like innate split chambers, serration or amalgam serration, point strike, an elemental stat (90% or 60/60%, cannot roll a 90% of a type there is a primed version of), an extra mod slot or something similar, you would also not be able to slot a mod that is innate to the weapon which is the reason 90% damage cannot be rolled if the weapon has access to a primed version, since it would interfear with the slotting of it. Things that would make them unique. Each forma would also increase their max level by 2 up to a maximum of 40, but you wouldnt be forced to forma for max capacity since there would be no mastery. This in order to support if the weapon rolls with an extra mod slot, more freedom of choice but you'd need to invest more forma for more capacity and correct polarity to make use of it.

The game just wont be able to follow the typical rewards of a linear game, since WF isnt linear.

[anarchy753]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

Please cut relics.. they have no use like the void era where new primes were included.. I literally drown in relics, we don't need more. Every damn mission gives those out.

The rest I agree with.

Edit: sorry for posting twice, adding a quote doesn't work on mobile when editing an existing post.. at least idk how to do it.

We're getting 2 full new star charts. I certainly don't mean "put relics in every drop table" like we have at the moment, but there certainly should be several dedicated nodes devoted to drop tables of pure, 1 era, radiant relics. I'm sick of farming S#&$ like Xini on new prime day only to have Vitality and Magazine Wrap dropping at a late planet in the star chart. Who is that for?

[Urlan]

1 minute ago, anarchy753 said:

I'm not really fond of the idea of permanent stat increases that people seem to suggest a lot. I just don't see it being healthy for balance at all. Even a small bonus builds over time.

Personally I hope focus Vwhatever.0 gives us some new nodes to play with, and I doubt it would happen, but I wish we could build our own personal tree from all out unlocked nodes, still limited to the way trees work such as 4 passives, 2 void mode, 2 void dash, 2 void blast nodes, along with whatever else I'm forgetting.

I can understand being worried about stat boosts, but its what happens with each prime release; and balance in the game can't really be achieved if players and enemies use a different scaling system. If enemies use mods as do players, Balance can be a real topic of debate. We have two passives currently each school 2 waybounds, etc. What would you suggest to give those resources more value besides of course as credits, what could focus do to make Tenno stand out before Amps, Magus, and Virtuos?

[kevoisvevo]

2 hours ago, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

I'd say give everyone screaming for endgame just Anasa sculptures.

Why? According to the forums people "don't play for rewards" 

Implying a 500-700 people on forums actually matter as an echo chamber lol. You have better luck in reddit, YouTube and twitch

[Xaero]

16 hours ago, LSG501 said:

in the case of rivens, be at the 90 cap...

The cap is 120 rn.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

Kuva, umbra, rivens, riven slivers (I havent even started lich idk what it is), Radiant relics like ESO......pl...plat....

[FaridRLz]

Some reward that's NOT TRADEABLE and only skilled enough people could possibly obtain it, weapons cosmetics mods etc.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

1 hour ago, FaridRLz said:

Some reward that's NOT TRADEABLE and only skilled enough people could possibly obtain it, weapons cosmetics mods etc.

Theres no skill in formaing a weapon enough to put viral on it and not dying lol.

But I get what you mean.

[LSG501]

3 hours ago, Xaero said:

The cap is 120 rn.

oh yeah I forgot it got increased... same can apply though