Nidus needs a health buff

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

On 2020-05-13 at 10:15 AM, TeaHawk said:

First of all, you don't seem to understand why Nidus needs a slight buff. I'm not discussing on how good/bad he currently is. Nidus is definetly one of the tankiest frames in the game who can easily go past lvl300+ and this even before enemies nerf. He is good. However there's the list of warframes which were slightly or significantly buffed during Warframe Revised:

Ash: 65 to 100
Ash Prime: 150 to 175
Banshee: 15 to 100
Banshee Prime: 65 to 125
Baruuk: 150 to 175
Ember: 100 to 125
Ember Prime: 125 to 150
Equinox: 100 to 125
Equinox Prime: 120 to 150
Gara: 125 to 150
Gauss: 150 to 175
Harrow: 150 to 175
Hydroid: 200 to 225
Hydroid Prime: 250 to 275
Inaros: 200 to 225
Ivara: 65 to 100
Ivara Prime: 65 to 125
Limbo: 65 to 100
Limbo Prime: 85 to 125
Loki: 65 to 100
Loki Prime: 65 to 125
Mag: 65 to 100
Mag Prime: 65 to 125
Mesa: 65 to 100
Mesa Prime: 85 to 125
Mirage: 65 to 100
Mirage Prime: 150 to 175
Nekros: 65 to 100
Nekros Prime: 65 to 125
Nezha: 175 to 190
Nova: 65 to 100
Nova Prime: 65 to 125
Nyx: 15 to 100
Nyx Prime: 50 to 125
Oberon: 150 to 175 
Octavia: 125 to 150
Revenant: 105 to 125
Rhino: 190 to 225
Titania: 65 to 100
Trinity: 15 to 100
Trinity Prime: 15 to 125
Vauban: 50 to 150
Vauban Prime: 100 to 200
Volt: 15 to 100
Volt Prime: 100 to 125
Wisp: 150 to 175
Zephyr: 15 to 100
Zephyr Prime: 75 to 125

 

Some of those needed a buff, but some clearly did not: Whisp, Nezha, Oberon and Harrow already were good for example. Along with above-mentioned buffs all these frames got a shield-gating which is a very powerful mechanic when it comes to survival.

Nidus has not got neither of that. It seems that Nidus was deliberately left behind, meanwhile every frame had become tankier. If you use some logic for instance, that would help you to deduce, that Nidus has become less tanky compared to all frames, when before. I'm trying to understand why the #*!% should I sit here and pretend to listen that stupid pile of crap coming out of your mouth, meanwhile my main frame is not getting a slight insignificant joke-buff along the others?

In the other words, Nidus's strength is not put into question — the consistency of this update is.

That's the point.

Thank you for posting the numbers.

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Inaros

Nidus deserves a health boost.

[Pizzarugi]

On 2020-05-12 at 9:40 AM, TeaHawk said:

Let's speak honestly now. Nidus was the same before this update. No one was complaining about its tankiness. This update everyone (counting other powerfull tanks) except Nidus. That's quite an unfair treatment. Don you think?

Not really.

Dude's got a 5 second immortality passive that he can spam, and it's not hard to keep that up constantly. Link to an enemy, drop your garden, meatball a group and you'll be building mutation stacks in seconds. 25-110 extra armor to frail frames pales in comparison to an immortality passive and an ungodly amount of life regen at his disposal. Hell, most of the buffed frames are getting 30% DR from armor on average which is half of what Nidus gets by default. Add Link and he's virtually invincible, especially if you stack high power strength for 90% reduction.

The other frames are getting buffed because they needed it. Nidus doesn't. He'll still outlast all of the non-tank frames.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Pizzarugi

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2020-05-14 at 1:16 AM, taiiat said:

-snip-

I just stated what I imagined him to be dumb dumb and when did I say that I wanted him to get more ability slots? or that I suggestion get rid of his abilities? it`s my opinion, if you don`t like it go frig yourself ppl have to think what they want to think and before this escalates I`m blocking you so don`t bother replying.

[taiiat]

10 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

it`s my opinion

and everyone is allowed to have their opinion, except only you are worthy of having an opinion, i guess.

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

17 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

Not really.

Dude's got a 5 second immortality passive that he can spam, and it's not hard to keep that up constantly. Link to an enemy, drop your garden, meatball a group and you'll be building mutation stacks in seconds. 25-110 extra armor to frail frames pales in comparison to an immortality passive and an ungodly amount of life regen at his disposal. Hell, most of the buffed frames are getting 30% DR from armor on average which is half of what Nidus gets by default. Add Link and he's virtually invincible, especially if you stack high power strength for 90% reduction.

The other frames are getting buffed because they needed it. Nidus doesn't. He'll still outlast all of the non-tank frames.

Did the 11,253.55 health god Inaros needed an armor boost? No, but he got one. Nidus requires more work to be a tank. Nidus isn't a tank. 450 health at rank 30. Inaros has 2000 health at rank 30. With 225 armor. Inaros has life steal. Inaros finishers restore 20% of Inaros max health. I bet Inaros prime gets more armor. You know why nidus has undying? You will die with him. Nidus isn't a tank. Nidus is close combat. He can also die easy. That why Nidus needs a buffer to make it to 4 hours. 

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

Did the 11,253.55 health god Inaros needed an armor boost? No, but he got one. Nidus requires more work to be a tank. Nidus isn't a tank. 450 health at rank 30. Inaros has 2000 health at rank 30. With 225 armor. Inaros has life steal. Inaros finishers restore 20% of Inaros max health. I bet Inaros prime gets more armor. You know why nidus has undying? You will die with him. Nidus isn't a tank. Nidus is close combat. He can also die easy. That why Nidus needs a buffer to make it to 4 hours. 

okay, is that 11.2K health from just mods or ehp?

if purely through mods: HOW?! i can get just short of 10K with every health mod under the sun, are you going a full team with physique?!

if in ehp? how? my build nets me nearly 40K effective hp and i only have 6.6K hp with mods.

and nidus is to a tank.

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

7 hours ago, (XB1)Orcus Imperium said:

okay, is that 11.2K health from just mods or ehp?

if purely through mods: HOW?! i can get just short of 10K with every health mod under the sun, are you going a full team with physique?!

if in ehp? how? my build nets me nearly 40K effective hp and i only have 6.6K hp with mods.

and nidus is to a tank.

Nidus has a huge downfall his low hp. Nidus big weakness is status effects. His health regen can be counter with status effects.  Nidus isn't a tank. 

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

On 2020-05-11 at 1:48 AM, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

Inaros has same base armor as rhino. Rhino can't out tank Inaros. Inaros is tank god. It's harder to survive with Nidus than Inaros.

This is patently false. Any half hearted ironclad rhino build beats inaros. 

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

Again.

His prime will come.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

12 hours ago, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

Did the 11,253.55 health god Inaros needed an armor boost? No, but he got one. Nidus requires more work to be a tank. Nidus isn't a tank. 450 health at rank 30. Inaros has 2000 health at rank 30. With 225 armor. Inaros has life steal. Inaros finishers restore 20% of Inaros max health. I bet Inaros prime gets more armor. You know why nidus has undying? You will die with him. Nidus isn't a tank. Nidus is close combat. He can also die easy. That why Nidus needs a buffer to make it to 4 hours. 

Health values alone do not make a tank! Rhino and revenant are great examples of this. Its combinations of health and abilities that make great tanks, and nidus has inaros beat. 
Inaros is the best lazy tank. He works better then any tank when you dont put in effort to mod him, but if you do mod appropriately tanks like nidus, rhino, hell even chroma can out pace him.  

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

4 hours ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Again.

His prime will come.

Inaros prime I'm counting on it. Plan on saving umbra mods for Inaros prime.

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

4 hours ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

Health values alone do not make a tank! Rhino and revenant are great examples of this. Its combinations of health and abilities that make great tanks, and nidus has inaros beat. 
Inaros is the best lazy tank. He works better then any tank when you dont put in effort to mod him, but if you do mod appropriately tanks like nidus, rhino, hell even chroma can out pace him.  

I don't like revenant. Revenant a warden. He not a tank. Revenant more of a ranger. As his abilities are better against certain enemy types. Sentinents of course. 

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

I don't see a problem adding more health to nidus.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

I don't like revenant. Revenant a warden. He not a tank. Revenant more of a ranger. As his abilities are better against certain enemy types. Sentinents of course. 

Since there is no “Warden class” in warframe (and the warden reference in rev’s lore is his previous job, not role in a squad) he is most commonly placed in the tank slot due to mesmer skin. 
 

ironically enough, he is not better vs sentients then other frames. Otherwise he’d be toptier in SS and that wasnt the case. 

[NovusKnight]

because you don't see arguments that disprove yours?

 

90% damage reduction from adaptation + 90% damage reduction from parasitic link (you know? that ability you say OOOH BOOO SUCKS AND DOESN'T HELP HIM?) + 945 armor with a simple Steel Fiber, which adds another 75%. more, actually. I'm just rounding it down.

that's 1(damage) x0.1x0.1x0.25. or 0,0025. in total, NIDUS REACHES A 99,75% DAMAGE REDUCTION JUST BY BEING BUILT AND USED COMPETENTLY. you can go higher with some arcanes or synergies.

"OH GOD HE IS NOT TANKY ENOUGH".

picture this: he has enough defenses to turn an attack that would instantly kill his base HP amount, 450 at rank 30, and THAT'S NOT EVEN COUNTING VITALITY, to...

well, here's some math: 450x0.0025.

1.125.

Nidus can turn a one-hit-kill of his base HP into 1 damage. he could survive this over 300 times over and still have HP to spare and laugh with. do you even know what does hit you for 450 damage? here's a hint: not a lot. grenades, bombards/napalms at higher levels... yeah. which do 1 damage to Nidus. ... yeah.

now:

NIDUS REGENERATES 13 HEALTH PER SECOND AT RANK 30.

to be damaged faster than you simply regenerate health, you'd need to receive 13/0.0025 damage per second. 5200 damage. EACH SECOND. and if you were receiving this much damage, YOU STILL WOULD NOT LOSE HEALTH, because it would merely, simply, match your regenerative capabilities applied to your EHP.

now, even more interestingly.

RAVENOUS. at 200% Strength - which Nidus absolutely should have at a minimum - you get 40 health back per second. that's on top of his passive 13, resulting in 53 health regained per second.

53/0.0025 = 21200DPS to out-damage your regenerative abilities.

a good half of the tenno-available weapons can't deal this much DPS even with multi-forma+riven builds. and not ONE enemy unit comes CLOSE to damage output of tenno equipment.

lastly: NIDUS HAS 1110 HP with just vitality maxed. to kill nidus instantly through all his damage reduction, and without giving him time to even recover, you'd need... 1110/0.0025, or an obscene 444000 damage to kill Nidus. with a non-maxed, not fully optimized build for tanking, that doesn't take arcanes, primed mods, umbral traits, or aura bonuses. you'd have to hit nidus with a single hit to do this.

 

 

I said it before, and I say it again.

 

you. do. not. know. how. to. play. Nidus.

if somehow you're dying as Nidus... that's like dying in the FTL tutorial by shutting off your O2 and calling the game too hard. like, you're just not doing it right. Dying as a Nidus often happens to burst damage not letting adaptation build up (happens to all tanks), forgetting parasitic link (can happen when you're distracted), going into nullifier bubbles (losing stacks and disabling parasitic link). essentially: user error and ilttle else. Nidus is extremely, disgustingly well designed. It's why I barely can bring myself to use him. he's too damn good at the one thing he's good at, and that is NOT DYING. that's of course, ignoring all the other things he's insanely good at, like LArva+guaranteed teeming virulence crit shredding entire grineer squads, damage output, and team support with his 4.

Nidus only requires time to stack up and braincells to be used well.

so go play nidus and understand how he works before you beg for more unbelievably absurd buffs.

 

which I'm sure you will still do, because no amount of arguments that prove otherwise will convince you that you are wrong in your reasoning. but alas, I dare you to question numbers. Seriously.

Edited May 16, 2020 by NovusKnight

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

Since there is no “Warden class” in warframe (and the warden reference in rev’s lore is his previous job, not role in a squad) he is most commonly placed in the tank slot due to mesmer skin. 
 

ironically enough, he is not better vs sentients then other frames. Otherwise he’d be toptier in SS and that wasnt the case. 

Warden is a class. Half spell caster and half fighter. Revenant isn't all about defense nor is he all about offensive. 

[(PSN)Captain_Bonecold]

6 minutes ago, NovusKnight said:

because you don't see arguments that disprove yours?

 

90% damage reduction from adaptation + 90% damage reduction from parasitic link (you know? that ability you say OOOH BOOO SUCKS AND DOESN'T HELP HIM?) + 945 armor with a simple Steel Fiber, which adds another 75%. more, actually. I'm just rounding it down.

that's 1(damage) x0.1x0.1x0.25. or 0,0025. in total, NIDUS REACHES A 99,75% DAMAGE REDUCTION JUST BY BEING BUILT AND USED COMPETENTLY. you can go higher with some arcanes or synergies.

"OH GOD HE IS NOT TANKY ENOUGH".

picture this: he has enough defenses to turn an attack that would instantly kill his base HP amount, 450 at rank 30, and THAT'S NOT EVEN COUNTING VITALITY, to...

well, here's some math: 450x0.0025.

1.125.

Nidus can turn a one-hit-kill of his base HP into 1 damage. he could survive this over 300 times over and still have HP to spare and laugh with. do you even know what does hit you for 450 damage? here's a hint: not a lot. grenades, bombards/napalms at higher levels... yeah. which do 1 damage to Nidus. ... yeah.

now:

NIDUS REGENERATES 13 HEALTH PER SECOND AT RANK 30.

to be damaged faster than you simply regenerate health, you'd need to receive 13/0.0025 damage per second. 5200 damage. EACH SECOND. and if you were receiving this much damage, YOU STILL WOULD NOT LOSE HEALTH, because it would merely, simply, match your regenerative capabilities applied to your EHP.

now, even more interestingly.

RAVENOUS. at 200% Strength - which Nidus absolutely should have at a minimum - you get 40 health back per second. that's on top of his passive 13, resulting in 53 health regained per second.

53/0.0025 = 21200DPS to out-damage your regenerative abilities.

a good half of the tenno-available weapons can't deal this much DPS even with multi-forma+riven builds. and not ONE enemy unit comes CLOSE to damage output of tenno equipment.

lastly: NIDUS HAS 1110 HP with just vitality maxed. to kill nidus instantly through all his damage reduction, and without giving him time to even recover, you'd need... 1110/0.0025, or an obscene 444000 damage to kill Nidus. with a non-maxed, not fully optimized build for tanking, that doesn't take arcanes, primed mods, umbral traits, or aura bonuses. you'd have to hit nidus with a single hit to do this.

 

 

I said it before, and I say it again.

 

you. do. not. know. how. to. play. Nidus.

if somehow you're dying as Nidus... that's like dying in the FTL tutorial by shutting off your O2 and calling the game too hard. like, you're just not doing it right.

so go play nidus and understand how he works before you beg for more unbelievably absurd buffs.

 

which I'm sure you will still do, because no amount of arguments that prove otherwise will convince you that you are wrong in your reasoning. but alas, I dare you to question numbers. Seriously.

Adaptation has a max 90% damage reduction. Nidus needs his stacks. All I see are youtube videos of nidus with Octavian specters, because nidus is weaker without a buffer. 

Inaros rage+Hunter Adrenaline= Scarab Swarm recovering tons of Energy. It also adds to armor cap of 100%. Remember that default 225? It now bigger. With just a max steel fiber it is 697.5. Scarb swarm when dispel refunds all health spent on it. 

Nidus suffers from viral,heat,toxic and radiation damage the most. They are the most common ways to destroy him. I seen zero nidus used in the scarlet spear events. Nidus lacks proper offensive against sentinent enemies. 

I have a challenge for you. See if the wisp boss can 1 shot your nidus. I want to see these mutation defense against the wisp boss. No sentinent or anti sentinent weapons.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

Adaptation has a max 90% damage reduction. Nidus needs his stacks. All I see are youtube videos of nidus with Octavian specters, because nidus is weaker without a buffer. 
 

What videos are you watching? Anyone that needs specters is not a good modder. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

Inaros rage+Hunter Adrenaline= Scarab Swarm recovering tons of Energy. It also adds to armor cap of 100%. Remember that default 225? It now bigger. With just a max steel fiber it is 697.5. Scarb swarm when dispel refunds all health spent on it. 
 

Nidus can also user rage/HA. In fact its even better on him due to his passive health regen. Also dont forget, scarab swarm only buffs Inaros’ base armor, not modded values. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

Nidus suffers from viral,heat,toxic and radiation damage the most. They are the most common ways to destroy him.
 

Every frame suffers from those. However, since nidus has a pocket 90% dr at any time toxin/heat are laughed at. Radiation is very rare to deal with, and viral even more so. You cannot use those as arguments for nidus’ viability when they are only able to proc in specific missions. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

I seen zero nidus used in the scarlet spear events. Nidus lacks proper offensive against sentinent enemies. 
 

False. Nidus works very well in endless missions, and no SS mission was endless. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:

I have a challenge for you. See if the wisp boss can 1 shot your nidus. I want to see these mutation defense against the wisp boss. No sentinent or anti sentinent weapons.

The “wisp boss” has a name, and if you cannot be bothered to know information ahead of time in discussions you should make prepare to be called out on it. As for your challenge, my nidus has no issues surviving the ropalolyst, without umbrals mind you. The fight is far from a challenge in terms of damage.

[Pizzarugi]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

What videos are you watching? Anyone that needs specters is not a good modder. 

Just butting in to mention someone sharing a video of Nidus fighting level 2500 enemies (before the enemy scaling nerf) on the first page of this thread. After a while, his damage falls off and he has to resort to armor stripping so an infinite-scaling Octavia specter can destroy the enemies you meatball.

I don't know how much this holds up now since the nerf.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Pizzarugi

[IceColdHawk]

>Your Inaros build is outdated then

>Inaros is immortal

You're being either super silly or trolling either way i laughed my butt off. Every frame but Nidus got an armor buff. Every frame, not just Inaros. And DE felt like Nidus was already sitting in a sweet spot and i can't even disagree there. Besides, you're asking for a humongous HP buff on Nidus for no reason when Inaros just got a measly literally unnoticable 25 armor buff 

 

[TeaHawk]

On 2020-05-15 at 9:59 AM, Pizzarugi said:

The other frames are getting buffed because they needed it.

Like what? Whisp, Harrow, Oberon... They definitely needed it yeah.

[Famecans]

is what I have already imagined and mentioned here in the forum, the DE creates this idea of "united squad" but in practice it does not work, all prey dependentt frames need mobile skills, and particularly many skills need to be mobile

hey don't forget we're ninjas, ninjas are fast and agile and not parasites

Edited May 18, 2020 by Famecans

[Famecans]

On 2020-05-10 at 9:51 PM, zhellon said:

 

impressive but this guy here kills nidus:

and these other guys here make a mess in any squad enslaving bots:

[T-Shark69]

47 minutes ago, Famecans said:

impressive but this guy here kills nidus:

nothing kills nidus with stacks.
 

49 minutes ago, Famecans said:

and these other guys here make a mess in any squad enslaving bots:

There's more than one way to cc and group up mobs.