Nightwave: Series 3 — The Glassmaker

[RazerXPrime]

No the difference is that you care and I do not. Black and white? Middle ground? What are you on about? If they change NW in the way you shaped it, maybe it's better. But like I said. I don't care. I don't even have an opinion on the matter let alone believing it is either great or terrible. I was triggered by the point that was erroneously made that it harms the new player experience. Which is completely bogus. I see new players enjoy a lot of the things that vets and their rampant youtube streamers consistently hate upon. 

Besides if I said I thought NW was great (which I don't) and you start pointing out flaws then we wouldn't have a conversation. I still wouldn't care. The only thing you're trying to do is see if you can make me care as well.

And obviously my first post was a troll post. I thought that was very very obvious. Doesn't mean the opinion I conveyed is wrong. People come to these forums solely to complain. Things used to be better, or different but it used to be better. New content isn't good. It's nerfed. It sucks. blah blah blah. It's pretty sad actually. If you don't enjoy the game then don't play it. Oh but wait!! I can't say that, because you care about the game and you WANT it to be better. I appreciate that. I do. And honestly I think DE also appreciates that. Just, you know, do it with a bit less whine. This is not specifically towards you, but to the general way people post here.

Edited October 22, 2020 by RazerXPrime

[master_of_destiny]

1 hour ago, RazerXPrime said:

I started playing this game a few months ago. NW never bothered me. Got to rank 90 no issue. What's the issue for new players again?

You know I think you're confused. All the issues vet players bring up on these forums are only issues if you've been playing this game for 5 years.

 

20 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

Wow resorting to petty insults is really helping your point. Look NW isn't perfect. It's not the best reward system. Also. I don't care, because unlike you I'm not actually entitled. It's funny though that you threw the word entitled towards me, when you're the only one acting like it. But perhaps if you throw more insults my way it may make your experience with the game better. I do enjoy coming here on the forums looking at how sour people become because of themselves.

 

It's amazing that the quotation button can be used, and demonstrate that what you are saying is about as internally inconsistent as a 70's jello mold.  It also has about the same palatability and structure under the slightest outside scrutiny.

 

Let's start with "it's only veterans" having issues.  It's face palm stupidity, but let's prove it out mathematically.  

Nitain - You need 189 assuming you don't have to do any research.  Let's assume each costs you 3 credits, as it's 15 credits for 5.  Now tell me, exactly how expensive is that?  567 credits.  Great, so a new player that earns all of the Nightwave ranks can earn up to an additional 30.  30*15= 450.  450<567.  This means that if you started the game with the start of series 3, spent credits on nothing but nitain, and somehow did everything that could be done you couldn't possibly earn enough nitain to make everything requiring it.  That's really crappy for a new player, because it's an artificial grind wall with a wait timer.

 

Let's say that you simply overlooked the nitain.  You bought Auras.  There are 18 at 20 credits each, or 360 credits.  Woohoo, that leaves a grand total of 90 credits to work with for 20+ weeks of content.  You could buy the parts for a single Vauban.

 

Now, let's talk memes.  Fashion frame is endgame...because DE can't figure out a reward system that would allow for repeat play.  That means 79 helmets at 35 credits each....that brings the total cost for the recurring cosmetics to 2765 credits.  Yep.....that's definitely not friendly for new players.  Hopefully they're willing to shell out real money and buy the cosmetics, while veterans sit on multiple cosmetic helmets that cannot be traded.  

 

 

But all of this can be hand waved away because "you are OK."  It's just a veteran problem, and presumably you'll never understand.  There's always an infinite supply of new blood, and it's not like today's veterans are simply the new players of three of four years ago that dismissed the same issues then, and have gone full irony by acting like they're new now.

Yeah.

Come back in two years, and tell me that everything is acceptable then.  Not the cop-out of "you don't have an issue" or the non-answer of "you're the one with a problem."  Assuming that the game hasn't fully face tanked, given the last three years of declining performance, I'll listen then.  Alternatively, maybe introduce yourself without immediately being insulting, and acting indignant the second you are responded to in kind.

 

 

Alternatively, I suggest a helmet.  When you headbutt the door to show your dominance eventually somebody is going to make sure it's a very costly mistake.  Introducing yourself by literally whining that other people are children, because they have issues with decisions, is really not a good look for someone who wants respect. 

 

 

2 hours ago, RazerXPrime said:

Love it when children complain. Do go on.

Above is the quotation you started out with, which earns you disrespect.  That's what happens when sentence one out of your mouth is disrespect. 

I want it directly quoted instead, in the event that someone decides to edit.  It's pretty difficult to earn respect by slapping people as a form of introduction. 

 

Almost as bad as promising us improvements, and spending three years repeating the same mistakes again and again.  You may have missed this, but intermission 2 is the longest Nightwave event by far.  Imagine watching TV, and the commercials lasting 20 of the 30 minutes.  That's Nightwave in a nutshell.

[RazerXPrime]

Looks like it's really bothering you that I don't have the issues you're describing.

[master_of_destiny]

1 minute ago, RazerXPrime said:

Looks like it's really bothering you that I don't have the issues you're describing.

 

Answer confirmed.  Troll.  Disregarding from this point forward, and with all subsequent interactions.

 

Goodbye.

[RazerXPrime]

And now I'm a troll lol. Of course, for not agreeing with you. Have a good day. I salute your ignorance.

[(NSW)Filgaia]

Now that those 2 have finished shouting at each other here instead of taking it to PMs or something, didn't DE say they were extending nightwave rewards? I was just wondering whether or not we'll keep getting cred as well. i just got to level 30 last week, and there's some useful stuff i could buy with the cred as i get it

Edited October 23, 2020 by (NSW)Filgaia

[Myscho]

51 minutes ago, (NSW)Filgaia said:

Now that those 2 have finished shouting at each other here instead of taking it to PMs or something, didn't DE say they were extending nightwave rewards? I was just wondering whether or not we'll keep getting cred as well. i just got to level 30 last week, and there's some useful stuff i could buy with the cred as i get it

Yes, they add another 30 prestige ranks (will be 90 prestige ranks) with Ep 5, so yay, more credits 

[(PSN)camwyn-xenos]

Absolutely nice 30more ranks and hopefully parts 5 by Tuesday, thank you DE. Hopefully your power outages get fixed so things run smooth.

However it still leaves the very real question of where do DE go after this season ends? And thats not being childish or ungrateful all that enjoy warframe care and have valid points on this discussion. Even veterans don't agree on away forward. 

March 2019 Season 1 was 60 ranks around 10 weeks was original night wave idea. No catchup system No end date lots of uncertainty on timing players got burnt out

1 week break nothing.

Intermission  5 ranks timing i forget, was suffering from burnout.

1 or 2 week break nothing

Season 2 was 60 ranks catchup introduced bounty grind was reduced a bit (1hr no air kuva survival rember those? Lol) De listened and changed things slowly.

1 or 2 week break nothing NOTE during the nothing gaps newer players hit the forums about lack of nitian and mods etc. 

Intermission2 60 ranks more changes to nightwave challenges. Then this problem started DE over stretched players hit the forums DE finally added another 30 ranks. Intermission around 5 months approx. 

1 or 2 weeks nothing. De says sorry we over stretched our selves we won't let it happen again 

Season 3  90 ranks well we see where we are. Plus after some delay 30 more

Season timing is approximate take it as a guide only please. I don't keep a warframe diary!

If you say no change is needed i strongly disagree. DE has probably around 6weeks more to come up with intermission 3 rewards and set out it duration. So now is the time for change ideas.

I personaly like nightwave structure for supplying rewards and the challenges. The rank 60 30 + 30 was a good idea and time frame around 10 weeks i would like it if DE would stick to that for seasons i don't care if its intermission 3, 4 ,5 , 6 even just a set  rotation and reasonable time frame. story is not as important as certainty, i think some other agree on the timing point of view. Weekly rank limits control the amount players earn and the grind/burnout restriction this should stay as a general idea

Some have said a restriction on the amount of catalyst and reactors is why DE limits use to ranks. If this was the case DE would have changed the sale cost which i cannot remember them changing from season 1. Cost not restriction on ranks is how you control this as a business they control the Cost and supply of items. We the players control only our willingness to grind. 

I hope as other the devs use the potential that is here in nightwave and build on its good points add more to it and hopefully reduce some unrewarding grind in the game as awhole.

Ps on consoles can you please split nightwave box in two extractor/nightwave or reprogram DEkickbot to say press L3 for resource location when it tell players were to look for resource locations as its currently hidden on default looking.

[master_of_destiny]

44 minutes ago, (PS4)camwyn-xenos said:

...

I personaly like nightwave structure for supplying rewards and the challenges. The rank 60 30 + 30 was a good idea and time frame around 10 weeks i would like it if DE would stick to that for seasons i don't care if its intermission 3, 4 ,5 , 6 even just a set  rotation and reasonable time frame. story is not as important as certainty, i think some other agree on the timing point of view. Weekly rank limits control the amount players earn and the grind/burnout restriction this should stay as a general idea

Some have said a restriction on the amount of catalyst and reactors is why DE limits use to ranks. If this was the case DE would have changed the sale cost which i cannot remember them changing from season 1. Cost not restriction on ranks is how you control this as a business they control the Cost and supply of items. We the players control only our willingness to grind. 

I hope as other the devs use the potential that is here in nightwave and build on its good points add more to it and hopefully reduce some unrewarding grind in the game as awhole.

Ps on consoles can you please split nightwave box in two extractor/nightwave or reprogram DEkickbot to say press L3 for resource location when it tell players were to look for resource locations as its currently hidden on default looking.

 

Short answer on the above, the cost of the reactors/catalysts have not changed.  The issue is that by limiting credit earning potential, and forcing a lot of other items into the pool, DE is making it necessary for newer players to buy things with platinum.

 

Long story very short, if you can only earn these items through a limited resource, and that resource is restricted over an ever expanding time frame, you basically need to spend platinum.  This is a concern, as the initial promise of this system was a defined season where rewards could be chosen.  It's rather problematic to have the promise of choice be outweighed by the falsehood of that choice being demonstrated to push players to platinum spending.  That's a mobile game tactic...and generally a problem indicating a developer is not exactly worthy of trust due to perceived dishonesty.

 

 

 

-As a more veteran player, I don't have to give any concern to this.  You earn the umbra forma, and then spend the next several months waiting out the timer until they finally let you earn another.  It's not a veteran issue, as most rewards are already something that veterans are unmotivated by.  It's really frustrating that this is a barrier to entry for new players, and even Fallout 76 managed to do this better.  It's amazing that the lackluster atoms currency is somehow superior to all the iterations DE has provided for Nightwave.  What I will not deny is that it is better today than at the start; but who really wanted an hour of survival, 3 formas being required, and some of the goofier challenges?-

[(PSN)camwyn-xenos]

As a 3000hr+ 3 yrs of experience tenno i still care about catalyst, reactors and a few other items. I started as a fully free to play player. And bought packs once i realized i liked warframe and its vibe on support. So while i have every frame, sentinel, companion, arch weapon and wing, my weapons collection grows each release. I'm not a trader so plat is always short. Slots slots and more slots is still my where my platinum goes. Nore do i care for fashion frame i have losey fashion sense. So i care very deeply what the devs give as grind rewards, loyalty bounuses, etc. Not all veterans play the same or have the same view points, its the beauty of warframe. I still try to play as a free to play player where possible. Again one of warframes best point is the economy. 

Something nobody outside of DE knows is what effect the sale by layou technology has had on the De market decisions so what we got in the past may well be about to change. So we can ask for changes. Only the devs know what they can give!

[kishanira]

On 2020-10-23 at 1:55 AM, (NSW)Cion said:

Oh boy, I love having a heated discussion just cause some rando revived this thread from like 3 months ago.

well i didn't notice this thread was from 3 months ago... well even more reason to ask why.. i guess..  and now i realize that nw right now lasted for 6 months.. '-')?

[master_of_destiny]

7 hours ago, (PS4)camwyn-xenos said:

As a 3000hr+ 3 yrs of experience tenno i still care about catalyst, reactors and a few other items. I started as a fully free to play player. And bought packs once i realized i liked warframe and its vibe on support. So while i have every frame, sentinel, companion, arch weapon and wing, my weapons collection grows each release. I'm not a trader so plat is always short. Slots slots and more slots is still my where my platinum goes. Nore do i care for fashion frame i have losey fashion sense. So i care very deeply what the devs give as grind rewards, loyalty bounuses, etc. Not all veterans play the same or have the same view points, its the beauty of warframe. I still try to play as a free to play player where possible. Again one of warframes best point is the economy. 

Something nobody outside of DE knows is what effect the sale by layou technology has had on the De market decisions so what we got in the past may well be about to change. So we can ask for changes. Only the devs know what they can give!

 

Let me offer you the perspective of someone else, and justify it as we go.

 

Slots are warframes's primary financial motivator, and have always been.  Doing the math here, virtually everything that is actual content requires a slot.  Until the start of Nightwave, years into this game, there was no way to earn slots.  In fact, even with Nightwave there's no consistency and absolutely no way to actually select and purchase them.  As such, the random smattering of slots offered during the main rewards selection is not particularly relevant.  My example- Vulpaphyla and Predasites.  If you started with Nightwave act 1 you'd have experienced the vampire kavat, the 3 Vulpaphyla, 3 Predasites, Dethcube Prime, and Dethmachine rifle.  If memory serves there have been a grand total of 4 companion slots offered, meaning you're 4 slots short of keeping up.  [if I'm off on count please call me out, as it's difficult to be 100% accurate]

Likewise, let's look at warframes.  3 slots, and we're looking at 2 slots being required per quarter as an average.  Nope, not enough room there.  Weapons....I'm not even going to try to catalog how short we are.  Finally, railjack....just railjack.  Nothing good to report there, but the content is fairly lackluster anyways.

In short, if Nightwave was a 10-12 week event, and prestige levels weren't really a thing, then maybe Nightwave would offer us a way to earn enough slots to keep up.  The catch being that it's years into the game, there are literally hundreds of weapons, and the amount of slots earned is still nowhere near enough to not still require real money transactions to buy slots.

 

Let me also make a quick comment about fashion frame.  75 platinum for a color pallet.  Syndanas.  Tennogen.  Deluxe skins.  Baro skins.  Immortal skins.  Day of the Dead skins.  Winter holiday skins.  I'd like to go on, but I think you get it.  It doesn't really matter if you care about the cosmetics, the cosmetics are what defines players.  That's the design decision DE made a long time ago, and hasn't changed.  It may be inconsequential to you, but it's vital to the people in this game who are deeply invested, because it makes them unique.  Whether you agree with that, or not, it's how this game functions.

This ties to the economy.  People spend real money for platinum.  It trades between players to alleviate grind.  Grinders spend the platinum to either skip other grind or on monetary outlets like fashion and slots.  If you're going to praise the economy, driven by painful grind and cosmetics, it's difficult to then suggest Nightwave is an improvement.  It's driving more purchases that deplete the platinum pool...which is not a player improvement.  It's an improvement to developer financials with minimal new investment into content.  I would gladly eat those words if the extra spend was justified with more content, but more than half a year on an intermission with only two real content releases meant 2019 was a demonstration that Nightwave was not a player beneficial system.

 

 

Now, let's talk about a person who still remembers void keys, movement 1.0, and barely missed the time of rainbow builds.  The point here is that the term veteran applies to many different types of players, and those who barely experienced the game before Nightwave are not veterans who experienced the old system.  You seem to be in that category, which means most of your experience has been with the restrictions of Nightwave.

Let me offer you the experience of someone who came back to the game after a two year hiatus, just before the introduction of PoE.  That is to say, I came back and had to buy lots of slots, burn all of my reactors/catalysts, burn through almost all of my forma to level things up, and create the entirely new exilus slot adapters, and basically do all of this with nothing remaining from the old grind.  To frame this, how many forma, reactors, exilus adapters, and catalysts do you think someone like that might have?  Moreover, I've stated that I've got about 20k MR points before MR 30, so you know I've done virtually everything.  

Let me answer you.  200 forma.  40 Exilus adapters, and 42 blue prints.  71 Reactors.  78 Catalysts.  I'd like to explain why, but that seems like a rant.  My point here is that the veteran community that can realistically compare and contrast Nightwave could be sitting upon 400+ nitain essence, and all of the above.  This is a person who has largely only used Nightwave credits to purchase cosmetics, replace reactors/catalysts, purchase the new cosmetics, and never touched the Nitain as a reward unless there was no other way to spend the accumulated credits.

What kind of veteran is this?  Well, someone who joined warframe while it was on the ascension.  Someone who remembers when the game was growing, instead of cyclically spiking player counts but having average player numbers decay over time.  Someone who remembers when DE released content more than twice a year, but made the reasonable compromise of tenno reinforcement levels of commitment.  Namely, anyone that was hoping Nightwave would solve the issues with alerts, and has since found it to simply be a failure because DE never assigned the resources to it, so it's become a running joke as to how long it'll be dragged out before we get the next lackluster offering.  High concept offerings, but with such a poor actual showing it's difficult to show it any love.

 

 

Regarding the buyout....seriously?  You do realize that the purchaser is Tencent, right?  I'm asking because the "nobody knows" thing was entirely valid when Leyou bought them out.  It was a meat packing company diversifying into software, and that's realistically unprecedented.  Ten Cent buying a developer is not.  Let's look at the reasonable comparison list.  Riot, Funcom, Grinding Gear Games, and Supercell are where I'd like to draw your attention to, but there are others.

Now, with the precedent set, what is Tencent likely to do.  Well, I'm going to go for Clash Of Clans, and call it as exploitative "free to play but pay to win" as the first step.  After that we can suggest League of Legends, a game built on very limited content but lots of cosmetics.  I don't have issues with League for the lack of content, but cite it because most of the MOBA content is player generated from rigidly defined rules and consistently bug minimum mechanics.  Finally, let's talk Path of Exile.  Oh boy, is that a huge box of crazy.  It's theoretically a truly free to play game, buy you can buy points.  Points offer you access to purchasing gear.  Additionally account features are locked to purchases.  It'd be like DE incorporating an auction house into the game finally, but making it linked to the purchase of at least one prime access.

So, let's have a little think here.  Tencent has a track record of relative non-interference, assuming a product is making money.  They then corporately seem to place the burden of being profitable onto each developer, with individual responsibility for how going to them until there's a point of not making money.  At which point there's changes to monetization, which make things profitable.  

Let's model where warframe is on this curve.  They aren't in their growth phase, as Riot was when acquired.  They aren't in a stable phase, as their financial reports suggest that DE had a bad 2019 and 2020 is not looking a lot better.  They aren't due for release of a follow-up, as warframe is functionally a live services spaghetti mess of code.  Now, with all of this said, where is DE?  Well, let's look at this objectively.  They experience huge spikes in player engagement with content infusions.  Financials are generally reported monthly or quarterly.  

Let's extrapolate.  To appease a new corporate model the best thing to do would be a monthly release of something.  That would level out the spikes of player engagement, and retain people for longer.  It would be reasonable to have newer players focused on spending platinum to get things, because there's less opportunity to earn them through gameplay.  It's also beneficial to have focus on cosmetics, as it's functionally the best bang-for-the-buck investment.  Basically, it's minimum effort with minimally talented staff (I don't mean this as an insult, but that they require less monetary compensation for their output).

What are we already seeing?  Well, monthly releases is a check.  It was Deimos last month, this month is prime access and Nightwave.  Next month is Deimos 2.0.  We're seeing more required platinum buys, couched in the potential "choice" that Nightwave offers to players.  We've already been told Tennogen will be more frequent.  It kind of sounds like DE is already tooling up for this.  It's almost like they can see the same financials, and have been working quietly to increase their performance.  It's almost like the buy-out was a thing on the table since 2018, when DE saw a dramatic decrease in profitability.  When did Nightwave start again?

 

This aside, it's unlikely Tencent is going to be a new sugar daddy to DE.  This isn't a new game, it isn't on the most sound footing, and it's not like it'll be expanding to new systems soon.  There's very little growth potential, so until there is it'll be another managed property.  This isn't good or bad, but it will mean more consistency.  Is this better for the player, who knows?  I personally preferred the age of tenno reinforcement packs, but it'll be a shift for DE.  Hopefully they figure it out, but when Fallout 76 can copy Fortnite better than you it's a sign of truly fundamental issues in execution and planning.

[Melanholic7]

I like how at start they told like "Season will be around 5 weeks with a smal Intermissions (1-2 weeks) between them" and now we have sh*t like 5 month Intermissions and forever seasons...=) Nice, nice. 

[GEN-Son_17]

1 hour ago, Melanholic7 said:

I like how at start they told like "Season will be around 5 weeks with a smal Intermissions (1-2 weeks) between them" and now we have sh*t like 5 month Intermissions and forever seasons...=) Nice, nice. 

That was our fault as players.

People complained about not having enough time to earn the rewards. DE then extended the time intervals.

People complained about the points being too low as well as having too many tasks to do per week. DE, therefore, reduced the task list, durations of tasks and increased point values.

People then vets started complaining about the lack of "meaningful" rewards while others complained about "not enough variety" of rewards. DE, once again, obliged and offered special mods, rotations per week and even tossed in a good lore story for good measure.

And now, people are complaining about...stupid stuff. This forum is proof that we ask for and receive too much and yet there will never be enough. In fact, I think the ONLY real area that DE always gets hit the hardest is when they listen to the whining that's disguised as "constructive criticism". Knock it off guys. 2020 is already hard enough without the pointless complaining.

[master_of_destiny]

18 hours ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

That was our fault as players.

People complained about not having enough time to earn the rewards. DE then extended the time intervals.

People complained about the points being too low as well as having too many tasks to do per week. DE, therefore, reduced the task list, durations of tasks and increased point values.

People then vets started complaining about the lack of "meaningful" rewards while others complained about "not enough variety" of rewards. DE, once again, obliged and offered special mods, rotations per week and even tossed in a good lore story for good measure.

And now, people are complaining about...stupid stuff. This forum is proof that we ask for and receive too much and yet there will never be enough. In fact, I think the ONLY real area that DE always gets hit the hardest is when they listen to the whining that's disguised as "constructive criticism". Knock it off guys. 2020 is already hard enough without the pointless complaining.

 

Funny that....let's give this logic an acid test.

 

When did the "complaints" about the length occur?  Well, prior to release.  There were concerns amongst the players that DE was going to introduce a system that would require daily logins and even more grind.  Prior to launch of Nightwave they assured the players that the duration would be more than sufficient to earn the 30 unique rewards, and that there would be an ability to earn credits thereafter to buy other stuff.  This means that it was not a reaction to player criticism, but an inherent function built in.  Your point is therefore invalid.

 

People did complain about the point values being too low.  It was a few thousand points to spend an hour doing a Kuva survival, which meant that instead of the 7 weekly activities we'd have to do far more.  That is not the player's fault, but DE not doing any reasonable balancing between rewards and investment.  I'm going to call this a wash, because it was bad design that was eventually remedied after lots of feedback.  Alternatively, you believe that the rewards for this were fine.  If that's the case then there's no reason that you should ever complain about things like a 0.201% drop chance, because the possibility exists.

 

Regarding the complaints about meaningful rewards....are you kidding me?  Nightwave has offered weapon specific modifications since its inception.  The complaint from veterans was not about not offering those things, but about the actual limitations of what was on offer.  Maybe you don't get it, so let me short this.  Look at what is on offer any given week.  3 Vauban parts, reactor, catalyst, kuva, nitain, 4 aura mods, a smattering of helmets, and some cosmetics or alert weapons.  Let's look at this through the veteran lense.  Kuva is a stupid credit waste, nitain is a waste because it used to drop 4 times a day, so you can have hundreds lying around.  Vauban is one and done with Vauban Prime existing.  Aura mods are something you got huge amounts of with alerts.  The cosmetics are one and done.  This means literally the only thing for veteran players was reactors and catalysts.  DE then decided that the conclave had failed spectacularly, and instead of releasing new content they'd recycle the old mods from it into Nightwave.  That's a bit more one-and-done rewards, but realistically we're not getting anything new.  Now the real fun bit, DE has limited the amount of these mods in Season 3, so we don't even have a real ability to earn all of them.

Let's compare and contrast this dumpster fire to a bigger dumpster fire.  Fallout 76 has a season pass.  The rewards in it are largely cosmetics, and some content.  The experienced and new players alike appreciate these rewards, because they haven't made this a barrier to entry for new players or a lackluster option for veterans.  Imagine the Fallout alternative to lock the ability to craft a weapon behind the season rewards, making it only available every few weeks, and giving the veterans who already have all of those crafting recipes the incentive to participate as only a recipe to craft stimpacks.  That's what DE did by locking auras (direct and immediate mod capacity and power), and reactors/catalysts behind the Nightwave grind wall.

Let me short this, players were angry because the reward structure targets a phantom audience.  To get the best out of Nightwave you have to play passively, have some but not all of the alert rewards, want all of the cosmetics, and find it deeply rewarding to do what you are told rather than what you want to do.  You find that player, and I'll show you the smallest selection of the player base.

 

 

Let's talk about stupid stuff.  When Nightwave started there was apprehension, because DE doesn't have the mechanisms to deliver constant content.  They aren't LoL, Fortnite, or other companies where the season content would be their focus.  This was the DE that in 2017 spent half the year releasing nothing so that PoE could come out.  Their proposal for the Nightwave was ambitious, and their track record for delivery pointed to this requiring real vision and consistency....which was in stark contrast to the Second Dream and Old War events established history.  We bought it, and got a stream of challenges that looked like an alpha testing sample.  Force us to do things with friends/clan mates, force hour long survivals in a game whose staff specifically stated that this was not the game to do something like this, and require blowing through the "rewards" to earn less standing than a new reward required (forma 3 things, with one of 30 rewards being 3 forma)?  Yeah, it was bumpy.  DE did smooth it out, but it took a lot of feedback.  

Now, about that timing.  Let's review.

Season 1- 81 days - Feb 27-May 19 (2019)

Dead Time - 24 days

Intermission 1 - 23 days - June 12-July 5 (2019)

Dead Time - 1 day

Season 2 - 99 days - July 6-Oct 13 (2019)

Dead Time - 8 days

Intermission 2 - 195 days - Oct 21-May 3 (2019-2020) 

Dead Time - 9 days

Season 3 - 168 days to date - May 12-Today

Let's look at this as a progression, and establish a pattern.  81, 23, 88, 195, 168.  Well, two seasons of about a quarter (90 days).  One month of intermission.  Then...Intermission 2 and Season 3.  Those two basically are going to be about 7 months each.  That's not great, but if the rewards reflected more than double the duration it would be fine...  The ellipses there imply that they did not.  Another 30 rewards, but more than twice the length.  That implies DE really screwed up.  If we followed the previous pattern we'd have been almost out of intermission 4 by this point....but we're not even through season 3.  Critical failure on assigning resources and planning by DE.

Is this fair?  I mean, maybe it was planned.  Well, DE has said that it was not their plan.  Their feedback is that this has gone on way longer than they intended.  That puts to rest any debate from the outside.

So....is Nightwave a successful replacement?  Well, it's less rewarding.  DE has not had the manpower required to sustain it, and they admitted to that.  The constantly increasing duration implies that they still don't have the manpower.  We're getting the third extension to point earnings in three seasons.  There are people who will have the 30 extra levels unlocked today if they add them today (and more).  That implies that DE isn't tooled up for this.  They released bumpy, fixed some things, an have over time experienced continued failures because they simply do not have the resources and or planning to execute this.  Uncoincidentally, this was the hesitance people demonstrated years ago regarding the failures of DE and the implementation of Nightwave.  Almost like truly long standing veterans saw this coming....

 

 

Now, I just did the math.  Where in Hades is my stupidity coming from when I suggest 3 years of Nightwave?  I must be stupid, or in error, right?  Let's discuss the past.  Nightwave is not a new concept.  On and off the alert system was cited on developer streams and the like for being an issue.  About 3 years ago we had real proposals for it to be changed, and DE tested the waters with things like the Proxy Rebellion event.  That is, set out a goal for the community that takes time and a reward earned once that goal was met.  That was the testing genesis of Nightwave, with its weekly events.  I'm getting my start date of three years ago from that testing, because it's the tipping point where DE went full in to revising alerts.  

Is that unfair....maybe?  Why do I suggest this?  Well, PoE tested the waters of open worlds.  We now have 3.  DE slammed bunches of relays into the game, did an event to limit them by having fomorians destroy some, promised rebuilding, spent years waffling, and since have rebuilt a grand total of 2.  DE cannot be held to immediate delivery on promises, and their experimentation takes years.  Nightwave has demonstrated failure, but hasn't been replaced.  They'll iterate until something new comes along.  This is the frustration.  If Nightwave was 90 days, 7 off, 28 days, 7 off, then a new season it'd be fine.  Instead it's a 6 month wait between rewards.  The failing is that with that duration their 30 rewards focused on cosmetics is just sad.  It's also frustrating because it represents a barrier to new player entry.  If you can't serve newbies, and don't serve content to veterans, then who exactly are you serving?

 

Regarding the 2020 is hard....go do the math.  2019 was when warframe's performance financially sucked.  2018 was a down year after 2017.   2017 was bouyed by the media blitz of "open worlds" in this free to play game.  All 2020 has been is a continuation of established things.  The excuse of work from home is great...assuming you don't have the capability to see established patterns from DE.

[RazerXPrime]

The only thing I want from Nightwave right now is infinite levels.

[RazerXPrime]

5 hours ago, RazerXPrime said:

The only thing I want from Nightwave right now is infinite levels.

And I got an answer in the next update is more levels. Wonder how many. I'm happy.

[Za_Rain]

i cant enter the new boss fight it crashes every time i try to enter

[-GrT-Wrath]

@[DE]Rebecca

Since "plague star" is now "nights of naberus" is there any other way to acquire the primary weapon "Snipertron"?

[ShiroSola]

Worst detective troll quest...

[Jokie155]

I'm done with these investigations.

 

3/5 on the last one, gone over the map half a dozen times. Finally realized there's an infested ramp up to the upper layer.

 

It's blocked off by an invisible wall. F off.

 

EDIT: I'm going to elaborate for the sake of being specific. There is a very simple, fundamental rule of game design. If you put something in a level that implies 'you can go here', blocking it off right before accessing that 'new' area is nothing short of incompetence/deliberately yanking the chain of the people who would otherwise want to continue supporting the game financially...

Edited October 27, 2020 by Jokie155

[(PSN)Dark_Overlord]

Nihil is hands down the most piss poorly designed bag of crap boss ever to grace the game.  I genuinely detest this so called 'boss fight', it's not fun it's buggy as hell and it just overall sucks hard.

I get DE wanted to put a unique spin on it, but never let whoever decided on this fight be given the reigns to create another one.

[alce00]

I'm a little surprised that DE desided to make boss fight skill based. It's not usually how warframe bosses work. It's not hard per se, but has some little annoyances. I did it on 3rd attempt, so it wasn't too bad, but that puzzle jumping looks very annoying on repeat. Especially when you have already touched the stone and forced to wait almost minute while Nora and Nihil are talking. I think it would be better to make that part skippable.

On plus side sword looks very cool, can't wait to try it.

Edited October 27, 2020 by alce00

[MikeyColeman281]

I donated the statue decoration from nihil to my dojo vault, and it has disappeared.  I can no longer access my nihil decoration.  

[RazerXPrime]

1 hour ago, alce00 said:

I'm a little surprised that DE desided to make boss fight skill based. It's not usually how warframe bosses work. It's not hard per se, but has some little annoyances. I did it on 3rd attempt, so it wasn't too bad, but that puzzle jumping looks very annoying on repeat. Especially when you have already touched the stone and forced to wait almost minute while Nora and Nihil are talking. I think it would be better to make that part skippable.

On plus side sword looks very cool, can't wait to try it.

Yea it'd be better if you could skip to the boss fight if you got there once. I managed to do it on the second try thank God. It wasn't a fun fight, but it was interesting to see they tried something different. It would've been much easier if I didn't suck at platforming and aiming (I play with a controller due to my RSI). Ah well.

 

for those looking for the parts (may be different from what I found)

With the statue behind you:

1. to the right near the wall in front of the door is an object.
2. There is an object hanging to the left near the center area on one of the pillars. Look up.
3. There's an object to the far end in the back to the left of the stairs
4. There's an object to the far end in the back in the middle, right of the stairs. Pretty close to no. 3.
5. There's an object to the far end in the back on the right, in the infested area