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Critical Delay Cannot Increase Dps (Math Demonstration Inside)


CubedOobleck
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A*CC*(B*CM-1)+1= Average Crit Multiplier

 

That formula gives you a multiplier which will tell you by how much critical hits increase your DPS. 'A' & 'B' are mod values, 'CC' is critical chance, 'CM' is critical multiplier.

 

So let's try demonstrating that by applying Critical Delay rank 4 (+0.4% crit chance, -0.3% fire rate) the dps increase. To do so we use an inequasion that compares the 2 of above formulas, one affected by crit delay one not.

 

(1.4*CC*(1*CM-1)+1)*(1-0.3) > 1*CC*(1*CM-1)+1

On both left and right B is 1 as we aren't applying critical damage mods; only on the left A is 1.4 because of crit delay and on the right it's just 1; on the left we add (1-0.3) for the rate of fire reduction of crit delay. 

 

Let's also keep in mind that both critical chance and multiplier cannot be less than 0 and the critical chance cannot be more than ~0.715 (with +0.4% from the mod the crit chance already goes up to 1.001 and beyond 1.0  nothing changes). Now it's highschool math:

 

(1.4*CC*(CM-1)+1)*0.7 > CC*(CM-1)+1

0.98*CC*(CM-1)+0.7 > CC*(CM-1)+1

0.98*CC*(CM-1) > CC*(CM-1)+0.3

-0.02*CC*(CM-1) > +0.3

CC*(CM-1) < -15

 

CC < -15/(CM-1)     or      CM < 1-(15/CC)

 

Immediately we can see that any acceptable value we give to the critical multiplier will create a critical chance below 0 or above 15 and that any acceptable value we give to the critical chance will create a negative critical multiplier. Hence it is not possible for critical delay at rank 4 to increase DPS and unless the damage update changes your formula then you need to change the mod.

 

The specific problem, it is that (1+0.4)*(1-0.3) < 1 which causes the inequality to 'flip' and become impossible. That happens with rank 4 and 5, Ironically if I had chosen to test this with a rank 3 or less critical delay the inequality wouldn't have 'flipped', so this mod actually becomes less good as you rank it up!

 

Generalizing, if you want to fix this mod be sure that (1+CCincrease)*(1+DPSreduction) > 1 or more and that the result increases as you level up the mod.

Although the simplest thing you could do (for both your work and player's ease of use) is pair a critical chance increase with a critical multiplier reduction because then you just need to roughly be sure that CCincrease > CMreduction.

 

All this aside critical delay should increase the critical chance at least as much as point strike does because it also has a debuff of some sort. Frankly I don't know how you could conceive something as low as +48%, that's so low I wouldn't use it even if it didn't have a debuff attached to it.

Edited by CubedOobleck
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All this aside critical delay should increase the critical chance more than vital sense does because it also has a debuff of some sort. Frankly I don't know how you could conceive something as low as +48%, that's so low I wouldn't use it even if it didn't have a debuff attached to it.

uh. vital Sense is Crit Damage. ;)

'Point Strike' is what you're looking for. 

and the reason for corrupted mods not being outright better than the original mods is for them to be intended to be used in tandem with the originals, not as replacements. 

 

also i'm not sure if this math is saying the math is wrong, or that the mod doesn't increase DPS. because DPS is literally the most useless stat in the game. if there is actually a bug in the math, then okay. but the logic behind the mod is sound.

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uh. vital Sense is Crit Damage. ;)

'Point Strike' is what you're looking for. 

and the reason for corrupted mods not being outright better than the original mods is for them to be intended to be used in tandem with the originals, not as replacements. 

 

also i'm not sure if this math is saying the math is wrong, or that the mod doesn't increase DPS. because DPS is literally the most useless stat in the game. if there is actually a bug in the math, then okay. but the logic behind the mod is sound.

ah thanks for pointing it out

 

Well, regardless how important dps is or isn't, the only thing critical chance does is affect the dps and rate of fire's main effect is to change dps too, so if in total the mod doesn't increase the dps, what are players going to equip it for?

Edited by CubedOobleck
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Critical damage is largely a broken mechanic at the moment, but that aside the purpose of the mod isn't DPS. The mod's image itself even displays the Latron Prime. It's not meant for doing as much damage per second as possible, but rather to cluster that damage. If equipping the mod results in a roughly neutral DPS shift (ie: an insignificant increase/decrease) then it serves a purpose in allowing DPS to spike. If something fires half as often but does twice as much damage per shot, that's a good choice for players and it's especially powerful for slower, single shot weapons like Sniper Rifles. This is pretty functional in the sense that the majority of weapons this would benefit (low fire rate, high damage per hit) tend to have above average or excellent critical. This is especially true for the sniper table, which sees an average Damage per Hit increase of 31.68% per shot when this mod is equipped, provided that Vital Sense (critical damage+120%) is equipped. This roughly evens out the penalty while providing a much more functional kind of damage (burst) for the weapon.

 

Really, the only issue at the moment is how grossly it's beaten out by Point Strike, as it's more-less a given that of the 8 mod slots a crit build is going to have at least four or more slots occupied by more basic or effective mods (crit damage, point strike, serration, piercing hit are more important and elemental mods, charged shot, etc can take priority) so there's not a lot of reason to use it. Of course, this is more symptomatic of critical hits as a result being entirely too weak; the majority of weapons receive a 5% or less DPS increase from the critical hit mechanic. As a result, the mod values for the mechanic are horribly skewed and, as a result, still useless for some while grossly powerful for others. Point Strike on a Soma, anyone?

 

Before really judging this mod any further I'd probably wait for the inevitable critical revamp since at the moment the mechanic is useless.

 

tl;dr? Critical hit is a broken mechanic, this mod will see more effect once it's fixed and it functions to emphasize slower, higher damage per hit shots for weapons like Sniper Rifles.

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Who is ever going to choose a mod that does nothing besides shifting the stats a bit over any other mod in the game?

You know what else just shifts stats in this game without any real benefit? Skins, thats what; and last time a checked an avalon helmet or a manticore axe didn't occupy a mod slot, for good reason.

 

Frankly, making a sniper slower, when against regular enemies each shot is already overkill is stupid, while against high level enemies that require multiple multiple shots it will make absolutely no difference except a bit less ammo consumption and to solve that problem there's other mods that work better. Another side effect of the slower fire rate would be slightly better precision with fast firing weapon, but again, to solve that problem there's a better mod.

 

Seriously, critical delay can't be anything other than a miscalculation, I cannot believe anyone would think otherwise.

 

Critical mechanic revamp would be welcome, but unless they are gonna change it from the ground up I doubt this mod could possibly become good, in fact if the rumor that crits will become more like elementals is true than this mod is going to become even worse.

Edited by CubedOobleck
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did you even think about that if you slot mods with attackspeed then this mod's negative stat gives less -%dmg 

The inequation demonstrates that any weapon with any mod setup will do less dps if you add a critical delay to it.

Simply because even if I add say +60% dps from other mods on both sides of the inequation they are just going to balance each other out. In other words:   7 < 10   just like    7*5 < 10*5 

Edited by CubedOobleck
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The problem with pure DPS calculations is they ignore many, many factors that come into play for actual damage output.  This mod demonstrates one of those ignored factors - the time it takes the player to acquire a target.

 

The DPS calculations are assuming an aimbot - 100% accuracy, instant target acquisition.   Human aren't aimbots.  The aimbot will always be better off without the mod.  Humans are a different story, and the you have to ask if the actual rate of shots is limited by the gun on the player.

 

For example, assume I'm not a great sniper.  I'm using a gun capable of firing 4 shots per second.  However, to line up headshots reliably takes me half a second.  Even if the mod increases my damage by 5% while reducing my RoF by 50%, to 2 per second, I'm actually still better off with it because the 2 shots per second I'm giving up are never made anyway, as my targeting time is the limiting factor, not the weapon.

 

Now, I'm not saying it's a great mod - it's not.  Just that under certain circumstances, it is an advantage. 

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well, what that mod does is it improves the average magnitude cost of each bullet you shoot... I find it kinda usefull, deals more damage overall with that mod than without with 500 bullets. I agree that the mod is S#&amp;&#036;, using something else is more beneficial :)

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The inequation demonstrates that any weapon with any mod setup will do less dps if you add a critical delay to it.

Simply because even if I add say +60% dps from other mods on both sides of the inequation they are just going to balance each other out. In other words:   7 < 10   just like    7*5 < 10*5 

Then you didn't understand me. I think mods with fire rate are addative just like damage mods. This means that, without any fire rate mods the negative side on this mod will give you -36% dps because it gives -36% fire rate. If you instead have a 60% speed trigger mod you will end up with a fire rate of 124% of the base fire rate.

36/160 = 22.5% damage reduction from the negative part of the mod. If fire rates where calculated multiplicable, then your assumtions would be right, but because they are not the impact of the loss in fire rate is less the more fire rate mods you have.

Edited by luddeluff
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I agree that this mod is sh`t, but compared to "Hollow Point" this mod is godlike.

While I'm not a fan of crit mods, especially on pistols, it's not as bad as everyone thinks (kind of like critical delay).

Let's say you have a Vasto that does 50 damage

Add max rang hornet strike and it will do 160 damage

Add hollow point that reduces damage by 15%.

People now assume that the vasto now does 160*0,85=136 damage

How much vasto will do for real: 160-7.5= 152.5 damage

Damage mods are addative or in other words calculated from base damage. Max rank on hollow point will always reduce vasto with 50*0.15= 7.5 damage. The higher ranked hornet strike you have, the damage lost will be a less percentage of the final damage. So with maxed hornet strike it will be a 4.9% damage decrease

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