Tokens210 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Zimzala said: From my POV, there is always some kind of expectation that a game developer and/or the players will come to some sort of closure, when these topics have been circular arguments for as long as GaaS have been online, so the cycle is not likely to come to any sort of kumbaya, IME. That's the issue I have seen time and time again - even if the ideas are solid, etc., which many in this thread are IMO, the developers of the game won't come in and validate the POV of some gamers, and those gamers will not stop seeking that validation, so the circle just repeats. Balancing a GaaS to make everyone happy is not possible and unhappy gamers love to let the world know they are unhappy. Such is the gaming community, full of people that think and feel they need to 'win' coupled with the 'when one does not agree then one does not understand' mentality, who will not stop until they either drive everyone else away, or the threads get locked. I see that DE knows it faces issues and is dealing with them as they can and that is good enough for me, but not for others...cannot please everyone, because some people cannot be pleased, IME. Ah, the circle of life, gamer edition! to some extend DE does acknowledge when changes made had something todo with a person, not saying this matters or should matter and for the most part its usually visual or audio bugs that youll see it but more then once ive seen DE changelog say it fixed an issue as described here and they link the persons thread personally i myself dont and wouldnt need or want validation from DE, i love their game and not everything but alot of what they do, i can only hope that they view this thread and ideas within it with open minds and similar to what happened a few times in the thread itself, maybe we change their minds on fixes and stuff they were thinking about doing, or maybe we described how changing this thing might lead to ppl exploiting this thing, which again might be something they didnt even consider, which all and all at the end of the day would hopefully result in a better game or gameplay for all and of course all that being said there will always be ppl unhappy with the state of the game or its gameplay cause you cant win with everyone Edited May 30, 2020 by Tokens210 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimzala Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, Tokens210 said: but more then once ive seen DE changelog say it fixed an issue as described here and they link the persons thread Forgot to exclude bug hunters, sorry, different kettle of fish and I think we all, as GaaS gamers, owe bug reporters a drink or snack of their choosing. 🙂 Bug Hunters Rock! 🖖 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felsagger Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 21 minutes ago, Tokens210 said: and of course all that being said there will always be ppl unhappy with the state of the game or its gameplay cause you cant win with everyone Making everybody happy is impossible. The best thing to do is just get few other games in the mix. There will be a lot of great game to look forward like TLoU2, Cyberpunk 77 and Tsushima. If this matinee gets fixed we will get back at it. Nothing is lost anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 1 hour ago, MagPrime said: idk, 60 pages. Not sure what else is left to discuss at this point, that hasn't already been touched on. Not gonna lie, I kinda felt it reached that closer to thirty. A lot of repeated arguments. I mean, honestly, I was saying the same 'Yeah, AI's important but probably not the first step' weeks ago. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Felsagger said: Come on dude. I'm not talking to you. stop. I was agreeing with you while also explaining how arpgs tend to be built when it comes to punishment/challenge/difficulty since you admitted earlier to never having played one (outside of WF, cos I assume you do indeed have an actual WF account). But please go on and have pipe dreams instead of facing the reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felsagger Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Loza03 said: Not gonna lie, I kinda felt it reached that closer to thirty. A lot of repeated arguments. I mean, honestly, I was saying the same 'Yeah, AI's important but probably not the first step' weeks ago. What other angles could be tackled over this subject? Few War Frames are off the charts, one key tile cleaners have to go, Enemies rework, stage rework. There's not much left other than seeing a remarkable leap in the game play. Besides DE is focusing all their attention for the PS5 leap. At least the game will get a better graphic and frame rate output on a better console. If cross save happens, I'll stick around more time. Playing on my laptop and PS5 would be great. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldain Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Loza03 said: Not gonna lie, I kinda felt it reached that closer to thirty. A lot of repeated arguments. We've had a bit of the occasional agreements and &%$#post breathers too. The biggest surprise of the thread is just how comparatively civil it remained for this long, especially considering the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felsagger Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Imagine, just imagine for a second that the enemy is fearless, spell doom on those who defy them and make even the best players sweat their mere existence. An enemy greater in numbers with the winning chances on their side all the time while you try to pull your last fighting chances against them.... Imagine all that hearing this music. Now that is War Frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)WafflyLearner89 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 7 hours ago, Aadi880 said: Warframe forums is just one massive salt mine tbh. Triburos was very right in his recent videos it seems. Say what you want, but these forums have nothing on the overwatch forums. 99% toxicity over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SplineDrive Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 2 hours ago, Felsagger said: Imagine.. You stated a good few pages ago that DE's code is spaghetti code. I asked you why you knew this and if you had seen the source. You dodged my question. So I ask you again; Why do you think it is spaghetti code? Have you seen the source code???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)sweatshawp Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, SplineDrive said: You stated a good few pages ago that DE's code is spaghetti code. I asked you why you knew this and if you had seen the source. You dodged my question. So I ask you again; Why do you think it is spaghetti code? Have you seen the source code???? Besides speculation they themselves have stated this if I’m not mistaken. Also looking at logic in the game the amount of bugs and much more it’s pretty safe to say the code of the foundation for such is “eh” to be very nice. On top of that they are using Lua script which while not an bad language to code with in modern day standards is heavily outdated in comparison to the other languages used to date 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SplineDrive Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 1 minute ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said: Besides speculation they themselves have stated this if I’m not mistaken. Also looking at logic in the game the amount of bugs and much more it’s pretty safe to say the code of the foundation for such is “eh” to be very nice. On top of that they are using Lua script which while not an bad language to code with in modern day standards is heavily outdated in comparison to the other languages used to date I appreciate you coming back to me, but I was really interested in why Felsagger thinks it's spag. As for outdated languages, we could have a separate topic imo. C (one of the oldest) is still the foundation of most modern languages. I enjoy using that over a modern language built over it like Groovy or Java for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 1 minute ago, SplineDrive said: I appreciate you coming back to me, but I was really interested in why Felsagger thinks it's spag. As for outdated languages, we could have a separate topic imo. C (one of the oldest) is still the foundation of most modern languages. I enjoy using that over a modern language built over it like Groovy or Java for example. I doubt you'll get a response out of them that will in any way answer the question but, I haven't seen an actual source for the spaghetti code comment beyond speculation from other posters. Someone said it in another thread and like many things here on the forums, posters just ran with it because it made sense to them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SplineDrive Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, MagPrime said: I doubt you'll get a response out of them that will in any way answer the question but, I haven't seen an actual source for the spaghetti code comment beyond speculation from other posters. Someone said it in another thread and like many things here on the forums, posters just ran with it because it made sense to them. Yea, I see some of the justification as: Bug in version 2 Bug solved in version 3 Bug reappears in version 4 Therefore (according to armchair code devs on forums), it's spag code (where everything is so interconnected, it triggers an older bug etc) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Personally, I think things like that are a repository/GIT issue (so code is fixed) but other dev doesn't have that code and uploads an old/different version (with the bug) and whoever approves isn't aware. Obv, this is just speculation tho, but this happens in a lot of games, where old bugs get reintroduced. Edited May 31, 2020 by SplineDrive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, SplineDrive said: Yea, I see some of the justification as: Bug in version 2 Bug solved in version 3 Bug reappears in version 4 Therefore, it's spag code (where everything is so interconnected, it triggers an older bug etc) Personally, I think things like that are a repository/GIT issue (so code is fixed) but other dev doesn't have that code and uploads an old/different version (with the bug) and whoever approves isn't aware. Obv, this is just speculation tho, but this happens in a lot of games, where old bugs get reintroduced. I agree it makes sense but it doesn't help anything by spreading it about, especially since no one knows if it's true or not. I mean, yeah, I've been around coders, that's why I say your post makes sense but it's still hearsay and that doesn't help anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SplineDrive Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, MagPrime said: I agree it makes sense but it doesn't help anything by spreading it about, especially since no one knows if it's true or not. I mean, yeah, I've been around coders, that's why I say your post makes sense but it's still hearsay and that doesn't help anything. Sure man, I appreciate that, I know it doesn't help anything, but you seem level headed about it (which is good) : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 Just now, SplineDrive said: Sure man, I appreciate that, I know it doesn't help anything, but you seem level headed about it (which is good) : ) Oh jeez, don't say that too loudly, I have a reputation lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SplineDrive Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 exks dee ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)sweatshawp Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, SplineDrive said: I appreciate you coming back to me, but I was really interested in why Felsagger thinks it's spag. As for outdated languages, we could have a separate topic imo. C (one of the oldest) is still the foundation of most modern languages. I enjoy using that over a modern language built over it like Groovy or Java for example. The thing about c and all the variations (c#,C++ etc) are just that they are timeless and can be easily adapted to fit almost anything. To my knowledge for example. (Pls correct me if I’m wrong) but isn’t lua a modified version of c++ or can it work in hand with c++. With that being said. Yes lua is very lightweight. But I don’t see lua working well in too many spaces in terms of a live service. While sure if I’m also not mistken eso uses lua script I can say that warframe is way more buggy than the mess that is eso. From spectulation like you said it seems as if the game is coded very poorly because of the performance issues bugs and to me improper server and possible net code issues. And even an “armchair dev” can see a lot of these issues. Tdlr it’s just better choices for efficiency sake performance sake etc than lua. But I don’t expect them to start transfering over everything from the past 7-8+ years into a new language or engine. Speaking of which. It is an in house engine. A very dated one at that Edited May 31, 2020 by (PS4)sweatshawp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felsagger Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 Let me show you an example of 'spaghetti code'. Mag don't answer the question that was aimed at me. Let me answer it. Don't speak about things you don't know. :3 This is a script language used called explicit history, actually known as Grasshopper 3d. The term spaghetti is attributed to the GUI appearance. This is another example in Unreal Engine. Each of the boxes has a code. Each code activates when certain variables get the information. In this case as the image explains "each grid square is represented by an invisible button wich is triggered by an on clicked event". In one of the videos by DE when Steve talks about the new modification to Arch Wings he shows in the screen a similar scheme showing wires and boxes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)sweatshawp Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Felsagger said: Let me show you an example of 'spaghetti code'. Mag don't answer the question that was aimed at me. Let me answer it. Don't speak about things you don't know. :3 This is a script language used called explicit history, actually known as Grasshopper 3d. The term spaghetti is attributed to the GUI appearance. This is another example in Unreal Engine. Each of the boxes has a code. Each code activates when certain variables get the information. In this case as the image explains "each grid square is represented by an invisible button wich is triggered by an on clicked event". In one of the videos by DE when Steve talks about the new modification to Arch Wings he shows in the screen a similar scheme showing wires and boxes. That example with unreal isn’t a realistic example of bad code or spaghetti code it looks like it but if you’re a dev or work in unreal that code is neat for the amount of .... whatever they are trying to do. The tasks at hand are separated and grouped accordingly and are more then likely split like that based on functionality. I’d also like to state that just because it looks jumbled dosent mean it’s spaghetti code but it’s rather then functionality of the code that makes it such. The grasshopper code dosent even look that bad lol. You’re using visual scripting and or node based scripting to try to prove a point as well lad. None of that seems like spaghetti code the term spaghetti code is usually in reference to poorly optimized code that is functionality “all over the place” nobody cares how your code looks unless you’re working in a team or a massive massive project with a team so long as it functions as intended with little error Edited May 31, 2020 by (PS4)sweatshawp 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanaukas Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 60 pages? Jfc what happened here 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)sweatshawp Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 Just now, xHeretic said: 60 pages? Jfc what happened here The first 1000 chapters of one piece spoilers all tdlred in the warframe forums 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMonkey Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 22 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said: The first 1000 chapters of one piece spoilers all tdlred in the warframe forums Yarr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)sweatshawp Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, DeMonkey said: Yarr. More like “gum gum” or “roooooom” Edited May 31, 2020 by (PS4)sweatshawp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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